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Trailer Queens

Started by Richardonly, June 12, 2012, 09:05:09 AM

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bcroe

Going to a car show I have only one objective.  To have the highest mileage of any car there. 
The engine appears stock, but an expert would see that the master brake cylinder is the only
original part.  Sure a $20K paint job merits special care, but its a museum piece, not a car. 
Bruce Roe

Mike Josephic CLC #3877

Hi Bruce:

I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder.

In my own experience, I started out do a "driver" restoration.  However,
as countless others have experienced, I started to look at "improving"
areas of the car that I had not planned on.  This led total frame off 2 year
restoration.

Yes, it may be called a "museum piece" but when you're so close to getting
it "perfect" where do you stop?

I'm sure that other members have found themselves in the same quandry.

Anyway, as I have stated before "to each his own -- it's your $$$$$"

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

Richardonly

Gentlemen,

It must be extremely tough on "official" judges to pick 1st, 2nd and 3rd at a TRULY judged event, of which this was NOT.  This particular event was by our peers.

Now here is a toughy!  And I'm sure they will run into this at the GN.

Two identical 1958 Eldorado convertibles cars, both perefect in every way, except one is powder blue and the other is silver. 

What is your vote as it only comes down to what color do YOU like best.

I vote for the blue.

Respectfully,   Richard
1948 Cadillac Fleetwood 60S
1995 Lincoln Towncar, Signature Series
1995 Jaguar XJ6
2001 Chrysler Sebring Convertible
1986 Yamaha 700 Maxim X motorcycle

Jay Friedman

I agree with the previous posters on this thread who said in effect that you must go to a judged show with your eyes open; that is, if your car is a driver you just have to live with the fact that the trailer queens will come out ahead.  In my opinion that's the way it should be. 

Having said that, my own "turn on" with my '49 Cad is that I've driven it to 14 Grand Nationals and 3 National Driving Tours up to 1,200 miles from my home in the 28 years I've owned it.  This with bias ply tires, a single-master cylinder drum brake system, 6 volt electrics, vacuum wipers and no AC.  (Without AC my wife travels to the GNs by plane.) 

Yes, I have to work on it quite a bit, but everything works well and I'm proud of the fact that it is probably in as good mechanical condition now as it was when it was just a used car back in the '50s.  At the same time its appearance is flawed and I'm totally satisfied with the 3rd prizes or no prize it usually gets.  I only had problems once on a trip when the generator failed, but luck was with me as there was an auto electric shop nearby who fixed it.  (Now on trips I carry a spare gen in the car.) 

After all, it's only a hobby, and a very rewarding one at that, and each  one of us has to enjoy it in his or her own way.

1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

D.Yaros

I agree with the "just accept it" philosophy.  Trailer Queens and Drivers are two different worlds.  The great thing about drivers is that far more folk get to enjoy their existence as they get far, far more exposure when being driven.

You do not see too many trailer queens being given a thumbs up on the open road, now do you?
Dave Yaros
CLC #25195
55 Coupe de Ville
92 Allante
62 Olds  

You will find me on the web @:
http://GDYNets.atwebpages.com  -Dave's Den
http://graylady.atwebpages.com -'55 CDV site
http://www.freewebs.com/jeandaveyaros  -Saved 62 (Oldsmobile) Web Site
The home of Car Collector Chronicles.  A  monthly GDYNets newsletter focusing on classic car collecting.
http://www.scribd.com/D_Yaros/

Richard Sills - CLC #936

The main reason to bring a car to a show is to share it with others who have the same interests.

It is not feasible to create separate classes for driven cars and trailered cars.  Even if this were possible, you could have one car that was driven two miles, and another one driven over 100 miles, so there would still not be a perfect equality of circumstances. 

The show participants respect and appreciate the fact that some cars are driven great distances to attend.   At the recent CLC Grand National Meet in St. Augustine, one Club member drove his 1962 Coupe deVille about 3,200 miles from Washington state.  Another Club member, who lives in Germany, flew to Texas where he stores his 1967 Sedan deVille, and drove it from Texas to Florida.

Whether or not a show has an official "long distance" award, it is appropriate for the person announcing the awards to give some recognition to people who drove their cars long distances.

To address another point, there is a purpose to bringing a perfect "trailer queen" car to a local show.  That purpose is to let others enjoy the cars.   At a recent local CLC meet in Pennsylvania, one Club member brought (and trailered) his 1957 Eldorado Biarritz which is so flawlessly restored that it may well be the best one in existence.  This car has won numerous national awards, and I'm sure the owner didn't bring it for the purpose of winning 1st prize in a local show.   Everyone greatly enjoyed having the opportunity to see this car, and we appreciated the owner bringing it.

With regard to the concern that people may feel they can't compete with a particular car, that is why the national CLC judging moves a car upward into a separate category after it has won a first prize in the category below.   Similarly, AACA moves top cars from Junior to Senior, and then to the preservation category where it no longer actively competes with the other cars.   Some CLC regions have adopted a similar approach, such as by designating multiple first-prize-winning cars as "emeritus" cars, or by limiting any car's ability to win "best of show" awards in successive years.   

There are a couple of Club members who bring national-award-winning cars to local meets in a "display only" class, which gives other attendees the opportunity to see these outstanding examples, but takes them out of the competition for prizes.

So, there are many different ways to deal with these issues, and perhaps none is a perfect solution.  But the best way to approach it is that anyone who preserves a vintage car and displays it for others to enjoy is a winner.






.

Caddy Wizard

I don't mind if trailer queens win all the time.  I redo cars for the journey, not the destination (I like the work).  Moreover, I do the cars for my own satisfaction, my own enjoyment in driving, my own sense of accomplishment, my own pride at owning a great and beautiful car.  My cars are all drivers.  Some end up nearly museum quality.  But they all get driven a lot.  This year I was at the GN with my  56 Fleetwood (that I drive to work every day) and it garnered a third prize in Class 15.  I am perfectly happy with that.  My car might not have been the most pristine car in the class.  But it was probably one of the nicest daily drivers at the entire meet. 


There is no sense worrying about the unfairness of trailer queens winning all the time.  Heck, only certain models can win Post-War Best of Show (49 coupes and cvts, 53 Eldos, 57-8 Eldo Biarritz, 57-58 Eldo Bros, 59s, etc).   The rest of the cars have nary a chance at Best of Show.  Unfortunately, that is life...


Art Gardner
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under resto -- has been in paint shop since June 2022!)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1958 Eldo Seville (2/3 done)

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Quote from: Richard Sills - CLC #936 on June 19, 2012, 01:33:26 PM


The main reason to bring a car to a show is to share it with others who have the same interests.

But the best way to approach it is that anyone who preserves a vintage car and displays it for others to enjoy is a winner.

Perfectly stated, Richard.
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

David King (kz78hy)

I share Jay's view as well.

The trailered cars have gone from being a car to art.  Most won't drive out very well because it takes miles and time to sort out a car to drive like new.  If the 1/8 mile distance from trailer to show is the most they are expected to do, then that's fine.

I drove my Eldorado Brougham again this year to the GN from MI.  2300 mile round trip without issue.  The car is still on the original air suspension.  It actually rode like a new car.  I had the opportunity to drive the EB that won Best of Show and my car ride was better. The show winner is an outstanding car, but it takes sorting and miles to get them that way.

The trip was a test to see just how good the mechanical restoration is and I'm quite happy with the result.  Some day I hope to drive it there with the car looking a lot better, but again, it will be driven.  That's my thing.

David
David King
CLC 22014  (life)
1958 Eldorado Brougham 615
1959 Eldorado Brougham 56- sold
1960 Eldorado Brougham 83- sold
1998 Deville d'Elegance
1955 Eldorado #277
1964 Studebaker Commander
2012 Volt
CLCMRC benefactor 197

Director and Founder, Eldorado Brougham Chapter
Past President, Motor City Region

Rare Parts brand suspension parts Retailer via Keep'em Running Automotive

Kevin M. Parkinson

All of my cars are drivers and I drive all of them, sometimes up to hours away.  But if I am going to have one of them away from home for a week I'm going to take it inside the trailer.  It is just my preference and i don't think that makes it a trailer queen because it arrives in a trailer. 

I like the security of knowing that when the weather turns severe, I have a safe place to put the car.  I almost always travel with one or more friends to far away shows and the trailer is always the plan should any of the other cars break.  Out comes my car, in goes the broken car and we can get to safety and parts without spending the night or paying high recovery bills.
1925 V-63B Custom Suburban
1941 Series 6719
1956 Fleetwood 75 Imperial Sedan
1967 Sedan deVille
1968 Sedan deVille
1972 Fleetwood 75 Sedan
1972 S&S Cadillac Victoria Hearse Senior #779
1980 Fleetwood Limousine
1996 Sedan deVille
2006 DTS 1SD
2018 CT6 3.0TT Platinum
2018 Escalade ESV

76eldo

Kevin,

I think everyone should participate in this hobby in the way they want to.  I was given some much needed assistance on a long tour by a friend with a trailer when the car I was taking on a 1000 mile run developed some overheating trouble.

I was sure glad that he was trailering his car on that trip.

A lot of the older cars from the 30's and 40's are fine for tooling around near home, but to drive to a Grand National and run the car for hours on end might bring on some premature and very expensive mechanical problems, so it makes a lot of sense to use a trailer for the long runs.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

62droptop

i just returned home form a big trip in my 62


i left detroit on june 3rd and drove the long way to dallas texas with the hot rod power tour, there was a couple thousand cars making the complete journey

many many rare and very expensive cars there,all being driven,no trailer in sight
was talking to one person who i loved his attitude
was driving a 70 challenger 340 six pack 4 speed car, 1 owner and all # matching car
redone in the late mid 2000's and appraised at $140,000

drove from california to detroit, to dallas back to california
hats off to him, his attitude was,it was painted once ,and can be repainted again if necessary, i am enjoying the hell out of driving it

there were many $30,000 or more paint jobs and many cars worth well north of $130,000
was great to see them being used and enjoyed like they were meant to be

after i laft dallas,i drove to orlando,spent some time at disney withthe family who flew into orlando
i left disney and headed to the nationals in st augustine
spent most of saturday there looking at the cars
then drove home to detroit area
total mileage was around 4700 miles, most of it well north of 80 mph
car was run down a dragstrip, on a high sped lap of a race track and driven hard in some mountain twisties
not a spot of trouble with the car except the drivers visor needed a little tightening with a screwdriver and a half qt of oil

my cars will never be show cars
i took a couple good stone chips to my 62 on this trip, but i am over them already.
the awesome memories and enjoyment i got out of running the wheels off my car are better than trophy can give

here is my favorite sticker i saw on my trip
s

bcroe

Quote from: 62droptop on June 24, 2012, 02:40:41 PM
i just returned home form a big trip in my 62

i left detroit on june 3rd and drove the long way to dallas texas with the hot rod power tour, there was a couple thousand cars making the complete journey

many many rare and very expensive cars there,all being driven,no trailer in sight

drove from california to detroit, to dallas back to california
hats off to him, his attitude was,it was painted once ,and can be repainted again if necessary, i am enjoying the hell out of driving it

there were many $30,000 or more paint jobs and many cars worth well north of $130,000
was great to see them being used and enjoyed like they were meant to be

after i laft dallas,i drove to orlando,spent some time at disney withthe family who flew into orlando
i left disney and headed to the nationals in st augustine
spent most of saturday there looking at the cars
then drove home to detroit area
total mileage was around 4700 miles, most of it well north of 80 mph
car was run down a dragstrip, on a high sped lap of a race track and driven hard in some mountain twisties

my cars will never be show cars
i took a couple good stone chips to my 62 on this trip, but i am over them already.
the awesome memories and enjoyment i got out of running the wheels off my car are better than trophy can give

Great report, and great description of how a car should be used.  Bruce Roe

Richardonly

W. Lee,

Enjoyed reading about your trip and feel as if I were along for the ride with you.

Took 2nd in my class yesterday at the NERCLC.  So many fine, pristine Caddies & Lasalles there.  May have been 1 trailer there, but believe it was the property owner's.

Thank you, Richard
1948 Cadillac Fleetwood 60S
1995 Lincoln Towncar, Signature Series
1995 Jaguar XJ6
2001 Chrysler Sebring Convertible
1986 Yamaha 700 Maxim X motorcycle

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

Just to add my 2 cents worth this year we drove my wife's 76 Coupe deVille to St. Augustine from San Antonio. It's of course a driver and her daily driver.  The car is mechanically as "new" as it was in '76, with a more than presentable paint job.
It was "display only" at the GN's, and we were able to enjoy the 2500 mile round trip in "Cadillac comfort".
The greatest kick was when we would come out of a restaurant or at gas stations (14 MPG saw many stations) and people would be taking pictures of the car and asked questions about it.
In Louisiana a State trooper watched us go by from the median, pulled up right behind us, went past when I pulled to the right lane, and then circled us giving us a "thumbs up" as he then went past.
Sure a lot more enjoyable than the (perceived) angst of "show car" competition.
As Bruce said earlier, (or at least my interpretation of it) "the one with the most (expensive) trophies when he dies, wins".
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

planetcadillac

Thats how I tend to look at my cars, Greg, especially ones that are newer than 1961. Very old cars, like pre-war, are practically difficult to drive long distances even if condition is not a concern. Some cars, like a Madam X, are so rare that practicality is difficult at any age. And yes, if a person puts the equivalent of the cost of a small house into restoration they probably won't want to risk the depreciation from the environment. With that said, I admire people who drive their cars to shows even long distances.

I suppose it really depends on how you plan to appreciate the vehicles. Some appreciate them for the artistic value some for what cars were made for driving and transportation. I tend to judge a car and converse with the owner within those contexts.

The gentleman that drove the 61 CDV from Washington State to Florida for the GN is to be admired both for the condition of the car and the trip itself. A 1961 is about as old as I would drive a car for such a distance unless you were part of a caravan or a road trip group.

I am not sure how you could adequately compare a driven car vs. a trailered car without taking into consideration all of the factors. However a car should be judged (objectively and subjectively) on the totality of its circumstances.
Craig Seman #17308

35-709

The gentleman and his wife from Washington state were driving a 1962 Coupe deVille.  I told his wife I wanted first refusal when they got ready to sell the car, she responded that it had been in the family since new and it would never be for sale.   :)
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Bill Podany #19567

Jay,

I have seen your 49 Sedanette and I admire your tenacity to drive it to CLC shows.  Fortunately you are very mechanical and can fix things that go wrong.  I have no talent in that regard, I am capable only of writing checks to pay the bill.  My father loved his 49 too.

Bill Podany
Knoxville, TN
1941 60 Special Fleetwood
1955 Eldorado

Caddy Wizard

That 62 CDV was a remarkable story.  Restored to an extremely high level -- every bit as nice as any trailer queen and driven 3,500 miles to the GN!  The guy spent three days cleaning the inside, outside, underside, and engine bay once he got to FL.  Just incredible.  The car was magnificent -- one of my favorites at the meet.  Certainly the nicest car I am aware of that was driven any distance to the meet.  Much nicer than my 56 FW.  Three cheers to him and his wife...


Art
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under resto -- has been in paint shop since June 2022!)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1958 Eldo Seville (2/3 done)

pauldridge


I'll take a nice driveable classic with Texas-friendly added airconditioning over a 100 points show car any day, but thank God for those who own and trailer just for show.

I am very happy that there are those willing to restore and keep these classics in pristine condition so the rest of us can appreciate them at the car shows where we had the pleasure of driving our cars.

IMHO, if an owner of any type of automobile places more value on collecting trophies than deriving enjoyment from driving that vehicle, then by all means let him collect them.  The rest of us will be enjoying our treasures all year around!


Owner of a beautiful 1940 Fleetwood Sixty Special that is driven almost daily!
Phil Auldridge
Austin, TX
1940 60S as well as MGA, Stingray, '39 Ford Coupe, BMW 3.0 CS, '59 Jaguar, '51 Hudson Hornet, '64 and '70 Mercedes roadsters, and Nash-Healey LeMans Coupe
[img]http://www.auldridge.org/images/hdricon.jpg[/img]