57 Eldorado horn contact

[Little Ed]

Hi Guys my first time here. Im working on a 57 Eldorado. Trying to get the horn to work as it did originaly.Have a good horn ring and all the parts. There is a wire up the centre of the steering column.
Everything from there to horns works. The contact wire looks to have something missing between it and the horn ring. Has anyone had experience with this?If nec. I can provide some pics
E Taylor

[J. Gomez]

Ed,

Look at this page (1957 is similar)

http://www.modifiedcadillac.org/documents/Shop_Manuals_and_Illus_Catalogs/Master%20Parts%20List%20thru%201964/Group%206/tn/Group%206%20-%2019.jpg.html

The insulation grommet 2.819 is this the part you are missing? The horn contact goes inside and this insulator slides inside the steering shaft.

[Little Ed]

Yes this is one part I will need, but after looking at it, I must still be missing something between the horn ring and contact. Will post pics if I can

[Little Ed]

Here are a couple of pics of what I am working with
E Taylor

[J. Gomez]

Ed,

From what I can see on your parts layout I’ve notice a missing allen screw for the base plate (2013-04-04 08.56.58.jpg) only one is showing, and the plastic bottom insert from 2013-04-04 09.06.20.jpg.

The horn ring plate with the spring would make contact with the horn terminal at the steering column (brass terminal 2.819 on the above link).

The two allen screws held the complete horn ring at the steering wheel, and the spring keeps the tension. One note the horn ring plate (with the spring) would need to be insulated from any metal part, this piece would extend the ground from the steering wheel up to the horn brass terminal.

Unfortunately the MPL (my CD copy covers 1946-1958 and 1956-1965) do not have a pictorial layout for 1956-1959 horn ring as they do for 1960-1965. 

Hope this helps..!

Good luck..!

[Doug Bailey]

Hey, Ed,

I just rebuilt my steering column in my '58 and the assembly is the same as for your '57. My horn was sounding constantly, and we figured out it was grounding inside the column. Had to pull it apart to figure it out. I just sent a draft article to Steve Stewart, laying out what I learned on this issue... Believe me, I know what you're dealing with.

You don't really say whether the problem is mechanical or electrical. If it's just not engaging properly, like it only blows on one side, or the horn ring is flopping around, that's likely going to be due to the spring and tension in those mechanical bits you showed in your photos. J. Gomez has a handle on that -- you need two of those hex nuts evenly tight to get the proper tension on the spring and to even out the horn ring.

But if it's electrical (I think it is since you said the grommet is part of your problem), then it might be parts you're not showing. The horn wire runs down inside that steering shaft. It is supposed to have a metal "button" on top at the wheel end of the wire. That's what completes the horn circuit when you press down. When you're not sounding the horns, that button is supposed to be insulated from the big steering shaft nut. That's the job of the grommet (part 2.819). It looks like a top hat, and the horn wire goes down through it to the bottom of the column. That's what J. Gomez is talking about. Those deteriorate, and when they do they fail to keep the horn from sounding constantly. Mine was okay, the issue was down farther in the column.

Down inside, there is a pickup, sort of a spring-loaded plunger that's part of the neutral safety switch. The NSS can crack or go bad, loosening that plunger. If your horns sound part of the time, this could be related to your NSS. I couldn't tell if your problem is IN, above the NSS, or below it. That NSS plunger goes through the column and makes contact with a brass sleeve that rides on the inside shaft, and the horn wire is soldered to it. That solder can come loose, or the brass sleeve can split, crack or get loose, causing a problem. The only way to know about the solder point or the brass sleeve  is to take the column apart. Inside that brass sleeve is a fiber or rubber insulator to keep the sleeve from contacting the steel shaft. That can move around or deteriorate, too.

Should have started here:  Have you checked the grounds for the steering shaft? There's a braided band tying the coupler (rag joint) to the steering box. If in doubt, run another ground. On down the line you have a horn relay that can go bad, and grounding issues on out to the horns. But it didn't sound like you have a problem down that far...

Doug

[Little Ed]

hi doug
My problem now is getting connection between the horn ring and horn wire.  I have tested the circuit and everything from the wire to relay to horns all functions properly. I have the allen set screws just need to find out how I connect from horn ring to the contact wire Thank you for your reply. Ed

[Doug Bailey]

Hey, Ed, So... with the wheel off, exposing the big nut on top, when you ground the button on top end of the horn wire the horn sounds. Is that correct? If yes, then the issue is in the connections you showed in your photos. But if NOT, then the issue is inside the steering shaft. Am I understanding it? Or does it sound constantly? Doug

[Walter Youshock]

Like Doug said--check your neutral switch.  Mine was slightly out of adjustment and the plunger wasn't making contact with the steering column.

[Little Ed]

Without the grommet the horn sounds all the time. My issue is after I install a new grommet how can make it connect to the horn ring.The pictures I put on here are all the parts I have for the horn ring. There must be some kind of contact between the ring and the wire Thanks Guys Ed

[Doug Bailey]

So, without the grommet the horns sounds all the time. And presumably WITH the grommet the horn sounds ONLY when you ground the top of the wire -- True? Confirm with the grommet in place and by using a jumper from the top of the horn wire to the steering nut. If that sounds the horn and it stops when you release the jumper then it seems to me the NSS is okay, Walter. As would be the rest of the electrical elements of the horns.

That makes it sound like a simple mechanical issue -- how the horn ring is attached. Because, Ed, if you can sound the horn with a jumper from the top of the wire to a ground -- and ONLY when you ground the horn circuit, then the horn is functioning as it should. If I'm correct so far, then all you need is a proper mounting of your horn ring and wheel -- because all that does is hold the horn ring above the horn button/wire until you press the ring and ground the horn, completing the horn circuit. 

Doug

[Doug Bailey]

Ed, I just re-read your note. Sounds like maybe you don't have the grommet right? The top of the horn wire should have a metal "button" soldered on. It's sort of rounded on the top end, with a washer-like brim. The underside of that brim grounds the horn if it contacts the steering nut. The wire goes DOWN THROUGH the grommet, so when the grommet is in place, the brim can't touch the nut. Pressing on the horn ring grounds the top of the wire. If that grommet is not in place properly it's not doing its job. Just trying to picture your situation. Doug

[Little Ed]

Ok guys I think my button on the wire through the column is buggered. I will include a pic as to what the current wire looks like. I will add after I get home from work.Once again ty all of you great to meet some decent people
Ed

[Doug Bailey]

Ed,
Send me your email address and I will send you an article with photos.
Doug
jdouglasbailey@bellsouth.net

[Doug Bailey]

Ed, See if this helps. I finally figured out hoe to upload a photo file (jpg).
Doug

[Little Ed]

Thank You
My email is jotay@rogers.com

[Little Ed]

To all the fellas that gave me their knowledge on this topic. I finally did figure out my problem. I manufactured my own grommet, then put a 3/16 flat washer over the contact. Now I have contact between the horn ring and contact wire. works great!!!!
I would like to thank you guys for all your effort. Nice to meet people willing to share their knowledge. Great bunch of people
Little Ed

[Doug Bailey]

Nice to hear a success story. Doug

[Alex-57]

I know this is an old thread but I thought the possible info may help others than just myself.

   Anyone know where to get a reproduction grommet that isolates the button soldered to the top of the horn wire in the column?

   Also, does anyone know the size or where to get the nut that holds the steering wheel to the column? My car arrived without one.. and I drove it like that for a year.. not too safe right? Would a 1957-58 GM one be the same size?

Alex