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Looking for a dual master cylinder for my '47.

Started by bobrich47, July 20, 2015, 12:12:26 PM

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Caddy Wizard

Ty,

I don't currently have a solution for that application, but perhaps in the near future....


Art
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under resto -- has been in paint shop since June 2022!)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1958 Eldo Seville (2/3 done)

CEC #20099

Ken: Hydrovacs are still used on late model straight trucks. I have an orig 55 -62 coupe, with a leaking Hydrovac, that will still pitch you into the windshield on a quick stop.  My car still has the RAYBESTOS PG  Asbestos linings from 1972. These cars will stop fine with the original type premium linings. Unfortunately, the GOVT says no. Unobtanium now. The modern linings for drums, are crap.

c chleboun #20099

kkarrer

CEC,
    Try some of the newer linings from Master Power Brakes or go to a truck clutch and brake place (we have one here in Austin) that will rivet some of the better linings on your old shoes.  I've had good experiences both ways.
Ken Karrer CenTex Regional Dir.
1955 convertible coupe

Jay Friedman

My '49 has its original drum brakes.  I've had the master and wheel cylinders sleeved, and I will have installed one of Art's dual master kits at some point.  (Haven't done it before because my car has a manual transmission and it seems like the new hydraulic lines and the clutch linkage would interfere with each other.  On the other hand, I'm encouraged by Gary Griffin who installed a kit on his '42 with stick shift.)

In my experience a major variable that determines whether drum brakes stop well is the type of lining used.  A company here in the Atlanta area specializes in relining drum brake shoes, including arcing the lining to the shoes.  Their clientele is mostly large trucks.  I had them do my '49's shoes, but when installed the car would not stop as well as it should.  I think the lining they use is very "hard" and, for lack of a better word, too "slippery" for use on a passenger car.  I then bought a set of re-lined shoes for about $125 on ebay, which I suspect came from outside the US, and the car now stops as it should.  I can't say exactly what the difference is between the 2 types of lining, but with this cheaper lining my car stops well enough to drive safely at interstate speeds which I regularly do.

I don't see any reason to switch to disc brakes, even though I'm well aware that they don't fade and are easier to work on. 
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

cadman56

Hello all,
I was going to remove the factory disc brake pieces from my 68 coupe parts car & install on my 68 convertible when I have the body off this fall. 
After reading through all the comments should I believe this may not be the best idea?
I apologize for intruding on the thread but thank you in advance for any comments.
Larry
1956 Cadillac Coupe deVille (sold)
1956 Cadillac Convertible (sold)
1956 Cadillac Eldorado Seville (sold)
1967 Cadillac Eldorado (sold)
1968 Cadillac Convertible (Sold)
1991 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham dElegance
Larry Blanchard CLC #5820

kkarrer

Larry,
     I've worked on a couple of 67 and 68's ...most recently a 68 eldorado with disc brakes and they work great as they are factory engineered to stop that car.  Unlike some kits that are undersized.  I've known one guy who made the switch that you're talking about and he was happy with it.  Just be sure you have ALL of the parts, including the little bracket that holds the line near the top of the spindle.  As I remember you really need it to keep the line away from the rotor.  I can't say that they'll stop better, but you do get the advantages of disc brakes that we've discussed here and if you have the factory parts you may as well do it.  Be sure to have those rotors turned and you might want to try the ceramic pads while you're at it.  Also inspect those flexible rubber lines and be prepared to replace them (just don't go with those Argentina parts that are sold on-line).
Ken Karrer CenTex Regional Dir.
1955 convertible coupe

Philippe M. Ruel

Quote from: Art Gardner  CLC 23021 on July 23, 2015, 09:29:06 AMI designed the kit for a 49 Cadillac and then found out later that the same master set up was used for many years prior.
Is there a reason that would prevent its installation on later models with the same two-bolt-to-interior-frame-rail setup ?
Hesitating between a remote, HydroVac-like booster on my current single MC and your kit.



To all : One shouldn't be happy with brakes when it firmly slows down your car and makes your back leave the seat back when applied - wow. One is happy with them when they avoid collisions. Having driven (a bit) too fast and too close to a modern 4-power-ABS-disc car, I'm definitely not happy with the original non-power system.
IMHO, braking power should allow to block front wheels at 60 mph on dry pavement. It's then the driver's responsibility not to block them, instead of  standing on the pedal, desperately staring at that d**n plastic bumper getting closer yard by yard.
1952 60 Special in France.

Jay Friedman

Phillipe,

The Cadillac chassis was re-designed in 1950 such that the distances between the brake pedal and the master cylinder are not the same as those on '49 and earlier cars.  Art's kit is designed to just bolt right in, using a bracket that the new dual master cylinder is bolted to and using the original pedal and linkage to the master cylinder.  I believe he would have to design a new bracket for '50 and later cars.
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

bobrich47

Is there a power booster that will work with this master cylinder set up, or is the new master enough?
Bob Richards

Jay Friedman

On the car's I've driven with Art's master cylinder set up a power booster is not needed.  In any case, these are all '49 and earlier cars which never had a factory power booster of any kind.  Stepping on the brake pedal on such cars doesn't require that much effort so I don't really see the need for a booster.  As I mentioned before, my own '49 doesn't yet have Art's set up but I'd like to install it for safety reasons.

1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

Caddy Wizard

I don't see a big need for power brakes on the 49 and earlier cars.  I echo Jay's comments about the lining material -- some linings don't stop very well because they have too low of a coefficient of friction, while others work remarkably better.  I have found the imported shoes, which seem to carry semi-metallic linings, work pretty darned well (much better than relinings from our local brake shop here in ATL).

Art
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under resto -- has been in paint shop since June 2022!)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1958 Eldo Seville (2/3 done)

moto1969

Is Art Gardenar still supplying the master cylinders set up for a 1955 Cadillac Coupe Series 62?  Or does anyone have a lead to another option?  Thanks
jemedina

jackworstell

Kkarrer..........would you elaborate on the PS installation you put in your  1941 coupe ?

Thanks   Jack Worstell       jlwmaster@aol.com