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'59 Biarritz: are we really up there now?

Started by Blade, July 26, 2015, 01:06:18 PM

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76eldo

The Persian 59 and the 57 Biarritz were Mark Tuwiner's cars. The black 54 was my friend Jeremy's.

The 54 only bid to $47,000 and it's worth a lot more.

No idea on the others.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Dr. John T. Welch

Quote from: rwchatham CLC 21892 on July 28, 2015, 03:21:14 PM
Bill, I was not vouching for the restoration on this particular car , only glanced at the pics of it. I was only stating about the structural integrity of the car being compromised simply because the body was removed from the frame which I think is incorrect . I think it is wrong to say a restored car would never perform as a factory build would  just because it is a restored car without actually driving the car in question. I believe the body being mated to the frame can be duplicated as long as the 10000 other details in the restoration are followed .  I believe restored and unrestored cars can be great driving cars or bad driving cars, just depends on the particular car.

The “structural integrity” issue pertaining to vehicles having undergone  body -off restoration  is very interesting.  The  starting point for restoration  is usually a vehicle far from “new” in both time and condition. The imagined goal of “as factory new” is just that: a product of one's imagination and/or memory.  The “structural integrity” of a restored car (or any car) is the sum of  sensations  highly subjective in nature.  We are dealing with vehicle dynamics that engineers today describe as “noise, vibration and harshness” (NVH).  Modern science has allowed these to be quantified precisely, and sophisticated mathematical  NVH algorythims  guide contemporary vehicle design. The most commonly referenced term, and the one put out for public consumption, is referred to as the vehicle's “natural frequency”.   Simply stated, the higher the measured natural frequency, the lower the perceived “structural integrity”;  the lower the measured “natural frequency”, the  higher the perceived structural integrity.   GM's John Rock made a big deal about this when the G-body Olds Aurora was introduced.

What does all this have to  do with body off restorations you ask?

The isolation of chassis/power train/suspension harmonics and vibrations from the body structure is of critical importance to the perception of a vehicle's “feel”. With time, the rubber polymers that compose suspension bushings, body-to-frame mounts, engine/transmission mounts, weather stripping, and fixed glass seals, deteriorate from their original chemical formulas.  The result is that they loose elasticity and the ability to cancel/absorb vibrations as they were originally engineered to do.  They harden and become conductors of vibrations instead of insulators.  Sometimes they vanish completely. This is why old cars “feel” the way they do.  A frame- off restoration allows access for replacement of body mounts, a once-in-a-lifetime chance for quantum improvement of the NVH values of a vehicle.  Unfortunately, the polymer chemistries of many reproduction products now available do not accurately reproduce the physical (durometer) properties of OEM parts. They both may be black, but that's where the similarity ends.  This is why many body-off restorations disappoint.  Contemporary body mounts ( notice how they are always referenced as “insulators” in factory parts catalogs and service manuals?) are incredibly complicated: they commonly have different durometer ratings for vertical and lateral compression.

With care and discriminating selection of the proper components and materials, it is possible to restore superior structural integrity and produce a pleasant feel to the vehicle.   









John T. Welch
CLC   24277

wrefakis

in far less eloquent terms, Chinese aftermarket springs and body mounts produce ride quality not even close to original

in 43 years of owning Cadillacs from 59-70 I have yet to see a set of aftermarket front springs not change the standing height and ride of the vehicle

no one while doing a restoration will rebuild all the things you do not see at a show, so your car will still have its worn out steering shaft bushings, driveline gears, and so on

restorations are done to look great standing still, and I have furnished unrestored vehicles to major collectors that had the restoration shop consult with me as to details

some of these are AACA Senior cars


rwchatham CLC 21892

Bill, I think you are correct that when a shop does a restoration, the ultimate goal is the look and sometimes some of the sub assemblies are overlooked but I believe there are restorations out there mainly by guys that do them for themselves that are striving for perfection  where every piece of the car is refurbished.  Some people actually do take every sub assembly down to the bare casing but most of the times they are just dolled up. I had one guy that owns a big restoration shop come by my garage and I was removing old undercoating from the well of the inside of a quarter panel and he laughed and said what the heck are you doing that for no one will ever see it !  We both just shook our heads at each other, he couldnt understand why I was doing it and I couldnt understand why he didnt.
R. Waligora

Jon S

Anyone know where they obtained that authentic-looking exhaust pipe insulation corrugated covering???
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

76eldo

Not sure but some Harley's use this stuff too.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Jeff Wilk

Guys just Google Stainless Steel Interlock Hose any you will find many options. Same stuff used on 20s and 30s Vintage Supercharged exhaust pipe that comes out the side of those hoods.
"Impossible Only Describes The Degree Of Difficulty" 

Southern New Jersey

1959 Cadillac Fleetwood Sixty Special
1975 Eldorado Convertible (#12 made)
1933 Phaeton Chevrolet - "Baby Cadillac"
1933 Master Sedan Chevrolet - "Baby Cadillac"

SOLD
1976 Cadillac Mirage (factory authorized Pick-Up)
1958 Cadillac Sixty-Special
1958 Cadillac Sixty-Special
1958 Cadillac Sedan
1958 Cadillac Coupe Deville

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

#47
Quote from: 76eldo on July 31, 2015, 08:17:27 PM
The Persian 59 and the 57 Biarritz were Mark Tuwiner's cars.

That's not the same '59 that he had at Hershey a year or two ago that was used in Tin Men is it?

BTW - Houston, we now have ICE COLD, 35 degree 1959 Cadillac Air Conditioning.  8) We're smiling now!
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Dan LeBlanc

Eric-

One small step for Mike, one giant leap for Cadillac kind.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car