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Brake drums over the years

Started by TJ Hopland, August 08, 2015, 08:41:34 AM

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Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

"Cadillac's new [in 1960] finned rear brake drums, by providing better cooling, permit redistributing the braking action more evenly between the front and rear wheels. Front brakes, located forward in the air stream, receive adequate cooling without need of finned drums."

Roy Schneider, Cadillac of the Sixties

Given the above and the article in Motor Life cited earlier, it is difficult to imagine any 1958 Cadillac having left the factory with  finned brake drums installed - front or rear.

A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

Walter Youshock

1961 had all 4 brake drums finned.  Cadillac drums were always steel.

In 1962, the dual master came standard.

Introduction of finned rear steel drums may have occurred in late 1959.  Not in 1958.
CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

bcroe

Quote from: Jon Sif you change the linings before the rivets get too close to the drum, there is no need to turn the drums and they should last a very long time.  Turning drums thins them down and they heat up quicker and distort.   

After learning to replace shoes on my drum brakes, I pretty much came to the same
conclusion.  The brakes worked just fine as they wore down, just had to make sure they
didn't get down to metal to metal.  So there might be some grove in the drum, the shoes
adjusted to it.  Oh yea, you could turn a perfect drum, and arc the shoes to a perfect
match.  The brakes would be near perfect the first time, but you just destroyed half the
life of the wearing parts. 

So I tried just putting it all together without all that.  Very first time the brakes were
pretty awful.  I drove around the block a few times riding the brakes all the way; soon
they settled down.  Next day they weren't quite ideal going to work, but the day after
everything was back to normal, and my shoes & drums were lasting a lot longer. 
Bruce Roe

Roger Zimmermann

Quote from: Jon S on August 08, 2015, 03:50:00 PM
They look just like these. Would take a picture but car is not here and too hot to remove wheels:
Those brake drums are not for 1958, but, as others wrote, 1960 or later. The part book is giving the same part number for the rear drums from 1953 to 1959. My 3 cars from 1956 and 57 have the same drums at the rear; I parted out a 1959 car, it had the same type of drums.
It's certainly possible to install 1960 or later drums at the rear; the inside diameter is the same.
Silencer spring: the MPL is listing them till 1957, front and rear, my 3 cars had springs on the drums when I bought them.
Anyway, from the Europe perspective, US cars were never considered to have good brakes: adequate for the US driving conditions, miserable when driven in Europe and this has not changed for a very long time. Even now, Cadillac and Corvette are not shining with the brakes but are better than 10 years ago.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Walter Youshock

Perhaps there was a special Long Island edition in 1958 that also mysteriously wasn't documented in the data book.  One would figure that a mountainous area such as Colorado would have been a better test market...
CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

Jon S

Quote from: Walter Youshock on August 09, 2015, 07:40:29 AM
Perhaps there was a special Long Island edition in 1958 that also mysteriously wasn't documented in the data book.  One would figure that a mountainous area such as Colorado would have been a better test market...

Your sarcasm is not appreciated and does not follow Forum etiquette 
Jon

1958 Cadillac Sedan De Ville
1973 Lincoln Continental Coupe
1981 Corvette
2004 Mustang GT

chrisntam

#26
Quote from: Walter Youshock on August 09, 2015, 07:40:29 AM
Perhaps there was a special Long Island edition in 1958 that also mysteriously wasn't documented in the data book.  One would figure that a mountainous area such as Colorado would have been a better test market...

We're not at the country club..........  I get it.  Kinda funny, lets all just calm down.  We can have a little fun here.  If we can't laugh at ourselves what will we do?

I always get a chuckle at the TV auctions where they say this (pic any car) car is one of four made with this color, 4-speed transmission, power seats and radio delete.  Yeah, but it 196X car and they made 25,000 of them.    ::)
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

Bobby B

Quote from: Walter Youshock on August 09, 2015, 07:40:29 AM
Perhaps there was a special Long Island edition in 1958 that also mysteriously wasn't documented in the data book.  One would figure that a mountainous area such as Colorado would have been a better test market...

Walter,
  If you knew anything about driving in NY, it would've been a better proving ground for finned drums!   ;D
                                                                                                                                                          Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Walter Youshock

I'm very well aware of driving in New York.  The only car of mine that hasn't seen the inside of the Lincoln Tunnel is the '57.

Back in college, I had a Dodge Aries.  I hit a pothole on 7th Ave that almost swallowed the car.  I remember the wheel cover flying off.  What a difference driving a big car makes when in the city.
CLC #11959 (Life)
1957 Coupe deVille
1991 Brougham

tozerco

While we are having some fun:

My list of hard-to-get things because they never lasted long past the first service etc. This list relates to a 1937 75 series car:

1.    The metal and canvas "shroud" around the rear leaf springs that had grease "nipples" and were supposed to contain a supply of grease for the springs. I still haven't seen a set of these "in the flesh" and they must have been a real PITA if you had to do any work on the rear springs;

2.    Where I come from, the radiator shutters. Those bloody things just made the engine run hotter than it already wanted to. Very hard to find now;

3.    The spare wheel covers. With lousy roads, a succession of flat tyres and one World War, the first things to get thrown down the back of the shed were these fiddly covers! The second thing was the "spider" brackets and locks for the spare wheel gear;

4.    The springs from around the huge brake drums on these cars;

...and the hardest things to find because they were the easiest to steal:

5.    The cigar and cigarette lighters from the rear seats in particular;

6.    The hand mirrors from the pockets in the rear seat;

7.    The handset for the intercom in the rear seat in Imperial bodied cars.

If you have any of these and need a good cause to give them to.... speak to me!
John Tozer
#7946

'37 7513
'37 7533

R S Steven

Hi All,
I was out working on my brakes and took some pictures of the rims.  They are KH and I assume that they are original since the car has been in the family since the early 60's.  The pictures are of a 59 coupe and the front and back drums are the same.
Cheers,
Bob

TJ Hopland

Interesting photo there.   I don't think I have seen fins like that before.  I wonder if those are considered fins?  I would imagine they were there for cooling or were they to hold the damping spring?
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

The Tassie Devil(le)

The ridges are for cooling.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

TJ Hopland

Are the 'fins' the 60 manuals talk about the traditional type we saw in the 70's and up?
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Roger Zimmermann

#34
Have a look at those drawings:

1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Bobby B

Quote from: TJ Hopland on August 09, 2015, 11:57:00 PM
Interesting photo there.   I don't think I have seen fins like that before.  I wonder if those are considered fins?  I would imagine they were there for cooling or were they to hold the damping spring?

TJ
   Usually when there's a "damper" spring, it sits in a single groove (or recess) just before the raised section where the drum lip goes over the backing plate.
                       Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

Quote from: TJ Hopland on August 09, 2015, 11:57:00 PM
Interesting photo there.   I don't think I have seen fins like that before.  I wonder if those are considered fins?  I would imagine they were there for cooling or were they to hold the damping spring?

I've always referred to that type "grooved" as opposed to "finned".
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

The Tassie Devil(le)

It doesn't really matter that they are Grooves or Fins.   All they do is create a greater surface area to dissipate heat.

In one way, it could be possible that the fins could create some "noise". but what they do do, is allow the creation of a far greater surface area protruding inwards, as the fins actually create reinforcing structure to hold the extra material in place.

Circumferential grooves wouldn't allow the inner width, as they would tend to crack at their thinnest point.

Bruce. >:D   
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

The purpose of grooves or fins on brake drums was never in question nor dispute.

The particular style used in specific model year production had been; it has now been resolved.

Thanks.

A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for which there is no Acceptable Substitute

TJ Hopland

Was there a reason they were fairly thin compared to the 70's-90's rear drums?

Roger's diagrams are interesting.  I don't quite get it was that 'A' arm thing on the left side and the right side just had a coil spring?   The A arm was for air suspension?
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason