What happened to all the 93-96 Fleetwood Broughams?

[64\/54Cadillacking]

To my surprise I still see people driving around in 90's Town Cars from time to time, granted, they're beat to crap and are ghettoed out, but you still see them being driven by ordinary people. The 2000 and up Town Cars to more of an extent, but what is shocking is that I rarely if ever see somebody drive a 93-96 Fleetwood.

They are truly almost extinct around here, or are turned into lowriders quickly if a nice one found.

My daily driver is a 94 Fleetwood Bro that I've owned going on 7 years now! Wow I can't believe it's been that long, but this car has been very well taken care of, and honestly all the repair work that has been done so far to it has been done by me. I've only had to replace a handful of parts since 2009.

2 waterpumps.
Shocks twice up front.
Rear shocks.
Window roller guides on all 4 windows.
Passenger side window motor.
Spark plugs and wires.
Ignition coil.
brakes.
Upper control arm bushings.
Center link.
O2 Sensors, Cat Convertors. Mufflers.

Pretty much everything that has been fixed or replaced has been mostly maintenance and wear and tear items.

I just can't believe it, this car has been the best overall car I have owned period. It's been the most reliable, the most comfortable, the most durable, and problem free car in my many years of driving.

Everything still works too after 20 years! Power seats, windows, radio, all the electrical stuff still works great, and never have they failed or acted up besides for one bad window motor. The car has almost 185,000 miles on it with the original engine and trans. It's still smooth as silk and doesn't smoke or burn any oil. The trans shifts smooth as butter like all the big GM transmissions do.

So why is it you hardly see old Roadmasters and Fleetwoods from this era when they were so good mechanically? Yet you see tons of old Town Cars that have way more problems than the GM D-B full sizers,  and aren't as good or as nice as these Fleetwoods.

I owned a 93 Town Car, and let me tell you. that car was a electrical nightmare! Problems after another with the electrical accessories including the seats, windows, HVAC and constant clogging up of the EGR valve kept setting off a CEL. The door hinges were crap too, even though the doors are feather weight light compared to the Fleetwoods heavy bank vault like doors, the hinges got squeaky and caused the doors to sag. The overall quality in Town Cars are so overrated.

Sure they are floaty, soft, and feel like you are driving a cloud to work, but when you hit a pot hole or expansion joint in the road, all the force from that impact is easily transmitted into the cabin. The NVH wasn't nearly as good as I would have thought.

My Fleetwood on the other hand doesn't have a cloud 9 like ride due to the firmer suspension setup that Cadillac was going after in the 90's, but it absorbs those rough bumps and pot holes much much better than the 93 TC ever did. The car is soft, but not floaty. I cater this to the fact the Fleetwood is such a heavy car, it feels much sturdier and better built than the TC. So that extra weight, and longer wheelbase adds to the better isolation.

What I am trying to say is the Fleetwood should of been the better seller in those days, but for whatever reason it failed badly to compete against the TC.
I love my Fleet, and there's no reason for me to get rid of it. I mean you can't find a modern car today that is as big as these Fleetwoods, especially on the inside with all the room. Nor can you find the trunk space. The only cars that are comparable is an S-Class or 7-Series Beemer. Even those cars are still physically smaller than the Fleetwoods and have less shoulder and hip room as well.

I can't stand small cars personally, and still enjoy the comfortable ride, and safety that the Fleetwood gives me. It's modern and reliable enough to drive everyday, yet it still carries a hint of that old world Cadillac styling and brashness that comes along with it.

[Scot Minesinger]

My daily driver back in the late 90's/early 2000's was a 1995 Fleetwood RWD.  Sold it after it enjoyed 254k trouble free miles on original engine/trans/diff.  It was triple black, but had the vinyl top removed and painted in 1998.  Also replaced the front shocks which improved handling and took some of the float out of the ride - much better.  Wow!, did I get compliments after that.  I rented a 1994 TC once.  The Fleetwood was infinitely superior, way better acceleration and handling, plus much nicer styling.

To answer your question, the TC and Fleetwood buyers probably did not value acceleration or handling and evaluated based on price.  The TC was less and hence it outsold the Cadillac.

Could not agree more, I consider my 1995 Fleetwood as by far the best daily driver ever.  At age 36 when I bought it and my friends riding with me would say "why did you buy this old person car?"  I floored it and that was the end of that.  My young kids loved riding in the car because I would often prove to them that the "beep beep" song where a Nash passes a Cadillac is a joke.  Those were fun times in that Cadillac.  Do not have room for another, so the past is the past.

[Big Apple Caddy]

To my surprise I still see people driving around in 90's Town Cars from time to time, granted, they're beat to crap and are ghettoed out, but you still see them being driven by ordinary people. The 2000 and up Town Cars to more of an extent, but what is shocking is that I rarely if ever see somebody drive a 93-96 Fleetwood.

If you're comparing against the Town Car, one reason the 1993-96 Fleetwood is a rarer site is because Cadillac sold far fewer of them than Lincoln sold Town Cars.

Cadillac sold around 90K 1993-96 Fleetwoods TOTAL while Lincoln sold over 110K Town Cars in just 1993 alone!

During this time, Cadillac did much better in sales with its DeVilles.  The Seville outsold Fleetwood too.

[Big Apple Caddy]

To answer your question, the TC and Fleetwood buyers probably did not value acceleration or handling and evaluated based on price.  The TC was less and hence it outsold the Cadillac.

Less??   Between 1993 and 1996 the Town Car had basically the same, typically a higher, base price as the Fleetwood.   Town Car also came in much higher priced versions like the Cartier Series.

[TJ Hopland]

The one that I am amazed at how many are around is Grand Marquis.  Anyone know how many of the last version of those were sold?   And I assume the those sold reasonably well because given that the other option was a Lincoln it was price. 

[TMoore - NTCLC]

I agree 100% about the 96-96 Fleetwoods being a durable car.  I owned a 1994 Fleetwood for 17 years and 254K trouble-free miles.  I had been thinking about looking for a replacement, and finally decided I could not find a new car that beat that version of the Fleetwood, so I concentrated on finding a low-mileage, well kept 94-96 (LT engine) Fleetwood.  There were very few examples of these cars to be found that satisfied my requirements.  Almost all of the ones that I did look at were sound  cars mechanically, but all had appearance issues (especially those cracked dash pads).  I finally found a 94 Brougham with 47K miles that had been garaged and pampered by an elderly couple who were giving up on driving.  I jumped on the car - I am familiar with what all to expect in the way of repairs (very few), and know where to get the parts that I will need.  I am truly happy to have found a replacement.   I sold my old one, and have talked to the buyer a few times, and he is happy with his choice as well.

I am not terribly familiar with the Lincolns of this era, but I can tell you that my parents switched from Cadillac to Grand Marquis in 1994 - they don't drive much, and trade in cars every 2-3 years, and could no longer accept the depreciation on Cadillacs for the little driving they they did.  They have owned 7 Grand Marquis in that time, all brand new, and everyone of them was at the dealer for some item or another - mostly electrical, but other issues as well.  They still have the 2010 Marquis, and it only has 20K on it, but has been back to the dealer multiple times.  I HATE driving that car - the difference between my 22 year old Fleetwood, and their 5 year old Grand Marquis is huge - there simply is no comparison.  I know the Grand Marquis is not a Lincoln, but if it is any indication of how Ford builds cars, then the Lincoln could not compete at all.

[TJ Hopland]

I have never spent much time in or around the 93-96's but I did go through a Roadmaster phase.    My favorite by far was a 93 that had the TBI 350.   It was just a solid reliable motor that was easy and cheap to work on when it did need work.   I had 2 LT1 cars and found them both to be just a pain in the butt (and wallet) and to me there was not that big of a gain in performance to justify it.     One issue that always annoyed me is apparently they engine was built to fit the Corvette so things are crammed together to fit.   Would have been nice if they would have spread things out a little when they put em in cars with a little more room under the hood. 

I was waiting in the parking lot of a strip mall for the wife yesterday and I would say out of maybe 50 cars I saw go by me I saw 2 or 3 Marquis and a town car or two.  Only Caddy I saw was a pimped out early 90's STS.   

[Big Apple Caddy]

The one that I am amazed at how many are around is Grand Marquis.  Anyone know how many of the last version of those were sold?

Last version as in the 2003-2011 model?   They sold around 434K during that nine year run. 

[TJ Hopland]

Did people really like the Grand Marquis that much or was it pretty much as close as they could get to the type of car they wanted especially after 96 when GM quit making a RWD land yacht ?    If there was reasonable demand it seems odd that GM quit, especially with all the fleet demand factored in. 

[Big Apple Caddy]

Did people really like the Grand Marquis that much or was it pretty much as close as they could get to the type of car they wanted especially after 96 when GM quit making a RWD land yacht ?    If there was reasonable demand it seems odd that GM quit, especially with all the fleet demand factored in.

Sales of the Ford "Panther" models (Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis and Town Car) declined pretty rapidly in the 2000s and during that time a greater and greater percentage were becoming fleet sales i.e. rental cars, police cruisers, livery/limo, taxis, etc.

Full-size trucks and SUVs were getting hotter and hotter so GM got out of the declining "land yacht" business in favor of trucks and SUVs.  Arlington Assembly, where the Fleetwood/Roadmaster/Caprice/Impala SS were being built, was converted to all truck and SUV production.   A good chunk of sales of those GM RWD sedans had become fleet as well.

[Dan LeBlanc]

I've owned 2 Crown Victorias, 1 Grand Marquis, and 1 Town Car.  They were all very, VERY reliable cars for me and I drive a lot.  As in 40k miles a year a lot.

One Crown Victoria needed an ABS sensor outside of the normal brakes, belts, hoses, and tires.

The Grand Marquis needed an alternator at 80K miles.

The Town Car needed upper ball joints and an alternator at 122k miles.

I've owned my 04 Deville for 18 months now.  It was fastidiously maintained by a very particular owner and one of the best examples in my region.  I have spent more in repairs on that deVille in the last 18 months than I spent on the 4 previous "Panthers" I've owned.  Once the deVille dies, I'm going to find a very nice example of a Town Car and stick with it.

How many deVilles with a Northstar have you seen that can do the 500k-600k miles a Panther can do even in heavy fleet service?  Why do you think they were popular with Fleet sales?  Because they were cheap to maintain, very reliable, and could just go and go. 

I remember the first time I went and rented a car.  I picked a deVille - the rental place had 4 Town Cars and 1 deVille.  Dad said "get the Cadillac - it means you're someone if you drive one."  He was born in 1935 and grew up when Cadillac ownership was something.  I got in the deVille and thought great, it's a brand new car.  If I recall correctly, less than 10,000km on it.  Didn't make it far.  The heater didn't work, the check engine light was on, and the power seat wouldn't work either.  Turned around and switched it for a Town Car.

I will admit, the Town Car is a bit anemic when compared to a Cadillac with a Northstar, but, that's all forgotten when you experience how reliable they are.

The deVille will be my last modern Cadillac. 

[corey raub]

I am very fond of the older Cadillacs, but ask anybody, and I mean ANYBODY in the limousine business, and they will tell you that Lincolns were better cars than Cadillacs from 1993-1996 and beyond.  And I'm not just talking about stretched limos.  I'm also referring to stock factory sedans that are often used for airport runs.  I wish I was wrong, but I'm not.   

[g27g28]

To be perfectly blunt they are ugly and they never sold well.  Cadillac had the same basic body style from 1980 till 1992 with just a face lift in 1990.  I can remember seeing my first one and cringing and think they had 13 yrs to come up with that.  I remember prices on used broughams rising when they came out with the 93's.  I think if they had come up with a design that wasn't a complete departure from what the older car was it would have sold better and maybe lasted a few more years.  BTW the  roadmaster was ugly as well.

[64\/54Cadillacking]

The 90's Town Cars were great mechanically and parts were fairly cheap. But as far as durability goes, my 94 Fleetwood has had way less issues, especially small ones, compared to the Town Car I used to own. Another thing about the TC's is because of their super floaty suspensions, the control arm bushings would always wear out faster than normal, including the ball joints.

Ask anyone that owns a 90's Townie, and they all will probably had the infamous TC suspension "Squeak".

The Deville's in the 90's are a completely different animal than the Fleetwoods, so you really can't compare them to a TC because of their smaller dimensions and FWD layout. My friend used to own a 95 Deville Concours with the N* in it, that car had balls! It had tons of power and drove nicely when it was running right, but again, those cars were plagued with problems. He had to replace the tranny at 80,000 miles, blew the head gasket a little over 100,000 miles, and the air suspension cost him almost a grand to replace due to the special shocks. So yeah I would never own a 90's Deville or even the 2000 on up ones.

I think if Cadillac put more effort into the Fleetwoods, such as more modern tech features and an even higher trim levels like the Town Cars had, I feel they would have sold much better. But because it was the same car that came out in the 1980's, it's age caught up to it and when you are someone who has money, and want to buy something new, the last thing you want is a car that has the underpinnings and features of a car that came out almost 20 years prior.

The TC won as far as using the latest engine tech and electrical dash features with its reliable 4.6 mod motor and interior gadgets. Although the LT1 guts are from the ancient 350 Chevy, that engine had more power, and is as just as durable as the Fords 4.6. The only thing holding it back is the serviceability of the Opti-Spark, and the access to the spark plugs and wires. It was a stupid design, but works fine when there's no problems with it.

Not to mention you can house your whole family in these cars if you wanted to that is how huge the interior is.

[JerRita]

I never liked the style of the 93-96 brougham but I love the 90-92 Our daily driver is a 91 5.7 w/ over 300K on the original motor Leather getting worn and rear bumper rusting and a small hole over the rear wheels but still strong and reliable and turns heads It even got a trophy last fall at a people's choice class I like it so much I found another 91 that we baby till the wheels fall off the grey Cadillac should have used that motor sooner and saved their reputation

[TJ Hopland]

You do kinda wonder why they went to the 4bbl 307 in 85/86.   It was a better option than the 4100 for that car but in 87 the trucks went to the TBI so you would think they would have been readily available by then for sure.  I think the Caprice went EFI at that time as did the F bodies.  It was just the wagons that kept / got the 307 like the Cad.  Wagons went EFI with the round body that all but the cad got in 91. 

[jwjohnson86]

Guess a lot of these were sold in Michigan.  I see these every so often along with lots of other late 80s-1990s models of all kinds.  Lots of examples still available for just a few thousand on Michigan Craigslist and other sites for anyone looking for a daily driver.  They show up also under the "donations" category on Copart, seen some pretty nice examples of the heirs just dumping grandpa's car to a charity donation service.

[Paul Tesone]

I bought my 2006 TC in 2007 with about 24,000 miles on it . It is used daily in all types of weather and it now has 126,000 miles . Other than replacing a leaking fuel line , nothing unexpected nor any major repairs . One of , if not , the best ridding cars I can remember . I'm a big guy , and I'm VERY comfortable in this car . It is very roomy .That was the deciding factor in buying the car .  I get 23-25 mpg on the highway if I keep the rpm's just below or at 2000 rpm's . I was very disturbed to hear they would no longer be produced . I've considered buying another , newer TC  - just to have when I do give up my present TC -  but I have no garage space . Two limo companies have approached me and made offers that I've refused . Only one apparent problem : terrible traction and stability in snow . Paul Tesone CLC 6876

[Scot Minesinger]

The 1995 Fleetwood well equipped was like 45k, and a TC was 41k tops.  In 1999 I was offered 32k for my Fleetwood, but it was not for sale.  The Fleetwood is better styled with better performance. 

I drove a 1994 TC for a week and it was terribly underpowered.  After driving the town car and starting up my 1985 Caprice with 305 V-8 and 200k miles (in great repair) geared very high, I put the Caprice in R and went to back out of my garage.  I was so used to the TC when I hit the gas as if it was the TC the wheel spun.  After driving the 1994 TC for a week, it was an easy decision to buy the Cadillac, plus it looked better too.

My daily driver is a 2007 Crown Vic Police Interceptor that was never in police use.  It is a wonderful car.  However, rather have a modern version of the RWD Fleetwood.  The CVPI is my second favorite daily driver, if you hit the brakes hard the air bags deploy - no not really but wow are those brakes something else.

[Big Apple Caddy]

The 1995 Fleetwood well equipped was like 45k, and a TC was 41k tops.

That is not correct.  The base price of a 1995 Cadillac Fleetwood was $35,595.   Add destination charge and all available factory options, including Brougham w/leather, and the max sticker price came in around $42,600.

The base price of a 1995 Lincoln Town Car Executive Series (the entry trim) was $36,400.  Add destination charge and all factory options to the Cartier Series (which had a base price of $41,200) and the max sticker could top $45,000.