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Anyone have these wheel cribs? May be safer than jack stands......

Started by chrisntam, February 05, 2017, 01:11:02 PM

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savemy67

Hello all,

Apples and oranges.

The blocks in the photo in the original post look as if they will do a good job of safely elevating a car.  Whether or not they are "safer" than jack-stands is an issue that needs to take into consideration the purpose for which a car is being elevated.  As was pointed out, working on brakes, wheels, suspension, etc, usually requires support at the frame so the wheels can hang free.  This obviates the use of the type of blocks in the OP's photo.  If work is to be done under the car on components other than wheels, brakes, suspension, etc., then the blocks in the photo may be perfectly suitable.

Of course, one size doesn't fit all.  The blocks in the photo may or may not elevate a car to sufficient height to accomplish the task at hand.  Many hobbyists make their own ramps and blocks (see attached photos of mine), and many hobbyists use frame hoists.  I don't have the luxury of owning a hoist (yet), so my home-made ramps and blocks suffice if I need to work on components other than wheels, brakes, suspension, etc.  If I need the wheels to hang free, I use jack stands rated at 3 tons per stand.  I always check the loading on the jack at both the frame and the ground, and I always test the stability by pushing the car side to side and fore and aft.

Wood is a surprisingly good material for blocks and ramps.  My research of the American Plywood Association, and several engineering websites found that the 3/4 inch plywood in one of the photos will hold a great deal of weight.  If the tire contact patch in the photo is about 16 square inches, the 3/4 inch plywood could hold over 4000 pounds given the 2x framing underneath.  The load on the plywood is transferred to the 2x framing at 4 points (the corners of the framing) so each corner is supporting about 312 pounds (assuming the car weighs 5000 pounds divided by four wheels divided by four corners of the crib) - an easy task for 2x wood in compression.

My blocks are mostly solid because my driveway is not level, so I have some shear forces with which to contend.  If my blocks were on level ground, I would have no qualms supporting 3 to 5 tons spread over the surface of each block.

As always, safety is the prime concern, so whether you use home-made crib blocks of wood, jack stands, composite blocks like the ones in the OP's photo, or a frame hoist, be sure your equipment is in good condition, and take the time to understand the physics of elevating your car.  Your life does depend on how safely you work.

Respectfully submitted,
Christopher Winter

Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

CadillacRob

ive got some 4x4 fence posts and a 56 coupe with a transmission that needs to come out.  I believe i'll make some!
1950 series 61 sedan
1956 coupe de ville

30326

So wanted to share some information from the workshop manual for my RR. It does give a rather good explanation and I like the fact that they tell how to fabricate the wooden cradles on the last page:


Bobby B

Quote from: CLC 30326 on February 10, 2017, 01:59:53 PM
So wanted to share some information from the workshop manual for my RR. It does give a rather good explanation and I like the fact that they tell how to fabricate the wooden cradles on the last page:

Leave it to the Englishmen.... ;D. There is some really funny stuff in British Workshop Manuals. Sometimes I LMAO when reading. It goes along with the Old School Mentality, but the Brits do it best!
                                Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Scot Minesinger

Chris,

I used solid 6 x 6 landscaping timbers so no failure possible, and low cost - quick availability.  The cribs are nice because they are not as long. 

For all those lift/jack stand fans, there are times when you need the suspension loaded (car supported by tires, but need to get underneath), such as but not limited to body to frame bushing replacements and upper control arm bushing replacements.  Some form of support the car in the air via tires is sometimes required.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Glen

Quote from: Scot Minesinger on February 10, 2017, 05:42:51 PM
For all those lift/jack stand fans, there are times when you need the suspension loaded (car supported by tires, but need to get underneath), such as but not limited to body to frame bushing replacements and upper control arm bushing replacements.  Some form of support the car in the air via tires is sometimes required.

I cannot imagine how you would change upper control arm bushings with the wheel on and supporting the car.  Am I missing something? 
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

chrisntam

Quote from: Glen on February 11, 2017, 12:31:54 AM
I cannot imagine how you would change upper control arm bushings with the wheel on and supporting the car.  Am I missing something?

Obviously, using the cribs when working on the suspension under load is not when you service it.  When your done servicing it and you need it under load (tires on, weight on the tires) to tighten things up, that's when the cribs would be used.  Or when servicing the steering.  Also (for my '70), I could service the rear trailing arms while using the cribs.  Arms need to be tightened while under load.  Or working on exhaust, brake lines, fuel lines, gas tank. 

I'm interested in adding them to my tool box as there is no room in my 8 footed ceiling garage for a lift.  For me, the jack stands and (for safety reasons) the jack always seem to be in the way.
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

Scot Minesinger

Glen, Like Chris wrote after the upper control arm bushings are installed, the torque of the end bolts in control arm shaft must be tightened when car is sitting on tires, not raised at frame with tires floating in air.  The cribs or lift that you drive onto is only way.

I'm in the same place as Chris, ceiling hot high enough.  Even if it was I just do not work on cars enough to justify a lift. Lying on your back is comfortable working on cars.  Further, a lift takes up a lot of space and does limit use of enclosed space somewhat.  It states in the 1970 Cadillac shop manual to "raise car on jack stands" when you need to get underneath the Cadillac, never mentioning a lift.  Using a lift may get me deduction points at a show.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Glen

Ah, I get it now.  I always did the final tightening with the wheels on the floor.  Not easy to get in there. 

Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

TJ Hopland

Here is my fix for lack of space.   When I got it maybe 8 years ago now I had a single car garage with a 6'6" ceiling.  Now I am at 2 cars and a 8' ceiling so I can get it raised with the Suburban on it if the door is closed.   You can get good used or questionable quality new 2 post for the same price but if you don't have the space....   https://kwik-lift.com/    In my fancy huge 2 car garage I leave it set up all the time and park on it. 









StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

30326

Tried to find the Kwik-Lift in Sweden, but so far no luck.
However found this and its more reasonable in price and a Cadillac is displayed!

https://youtu.be/BadStE7uOlk


D.Yaros

Well, by my count it took 93 pumps and 1 min 2 secs to get the racks to full extension.  One would be too tired to work on the car once they got the racks pumped up!
Dave Yaros
CLC #25195
55 Coupe de Ville
92 Allante
62 Olds  

You will find me on the web @:
http://GDYNets.atwebpages.com  -Dave's Den
http://graylady.atwebpages.com -'55 CDV site
http://www.freewebs.com/jeandaveyaros  -Saved 62 (Oldsmobile) Web Site
The home of Car Collector Chronicles.  A  monthly GDYNets newsletter focusing on classic car collecting.
http://www.scribd.com/D_Yaros/

chrisntam

I ponied up and bought 4 of the 10" cribs.  When I stop having to work overtime all the time and I get a chance to use them, I'll let you know how it goes.  Prolly in 4 to 6 weeks, right when it starts to warm up!
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

TJ Hopland

Cool.  You will have to let us know what you think of em. 

Those jack ramp things look interesting but ya that does seem like a lot of pumps.  After having my Kwik lift for a few months I went out and bought a 5? ton jack.   Partially was because I like it to be overkill especially given the quality of jacks these days.   Another reason is the 5 ton jack was much longer so made it easier with long cars.   Final reason is there was an option to have it air operated which is nice, connect the air line and it just goes up.   
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

dochawk

At the moment, I need to repair or replace the plate for my bumper jack.

I was shocked at how much easier it was to lift the care with it; I had forgotten.

I also forgot the car was front wheel drive, and that Park would do nothing to hold it in place with the parking brake not working . . . so up it went, then off it rolled.  I caught it, but it rounded the bottom of the plate :(

I haven't found any for less than $100, and don't know if the plate would be safe if flattened.

hawk
1972 Eldorado convertible,  1997 Eldorado ETC (now awaiting parts swap from '95 donor), 1993 Fleetwood but no 1926 (yet)

The Tassie Devil(le)

'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

dochawk

I always use the parking brake, even on flat land--I learned to drive in hills, and don't even think about it.

Heck, I set it in the garage--not deliberately, but because it's habit.

But that's one of the things that doesn't work yet on this car . . .
1972 Eldorado convertible,  1997 Eldorado ETC (now awaiting parts swap from '95 donor), 1993 Fleetwood but no 1926 (yet)

30326

I bought a pair of the red jack ups. Drove the cars front wheels up on them and then pumped up. Wasn't to difficult to pump as I used the foot and didn't think it was cumbersome or so. Actually I think it was easier and safer than raising the front of the car by using a regular jack. When using a jack it gets a lot of imbalance, here it was the same height on both sides. It felt a lot more secure.
I am now finished with the front suspension/steering and will will move the jack ups to the rear to replace shocks and suspension there as well. Could of course have bought 2 sets and being able to lift the whole car up to a very sufficient height. But 480 USD a pair is a lot of money for something that is used maybe every other year. So I stick with one set and have to say it was better than I expected.

TJ Hopland

Because of the geometry of those units I don't think you could use a set on each end unless one end had wheels or slides.    It looks like the car moves enough during the lifting process that you have to allow the wheels on the ground to roll at first.   Was there any concern about the car rolling back while you were lifting?
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

30326

When I was lifting the front end the rear wheels had to be moving freely. Then when the front was up in air I placed it on the regular jack stands. Was very easy to do so as the car was already in balance. After that I lowered the jack ups and moved them out of the way and removed the wheels. Could have left the jack ups in place but wanted the free space when replacing all suspension and steering parts.
If I would buy a second set I would lift 5-6 inches on end until the tires on the other end start to move. Then I would lift the opposite end the same way so basically zigzagging up the car. I believe it would be safe enough to do that. The jack ups are more portable than the ramps and very much more safe compared to jacking on one side and then moving over to the other. The other good thing is that the jack stands could be placed in the best position below the frame, the place where I usually would place the jack.
However I will not buy a second pair. Because I can't really see the need at this stage. It would be very nice to have it, but so would a car lift. Buying two sets of these jack ups are about half the price compared to a car 2-post car lift. The working space below when on the jack ups is good but of course not as good as a complete hoisted car. For all the work below the car this will be sufficient for me.