Main and / or rod bearings failure in 1968 DVC

["Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364]

Mike,
What prompted you to use studs instead of Head bolts?
Greg Surfas

[chrisntam]

This is what I did:

[Bobby B]

The crank company shipped the WRONG rod bearings!  (not even close)?#%^@#%#@$!$%@

Just a Simple Question....Who would install any bearings without checking them first?     If you don't have the correct inside/outside bore gauges and/or micrometers, Plasti-gauge is at least better than nothing. Costly Lesson.....
                                                                            Bobby

[cadillacmike68]

Just a Simple Question....Who would install any bearings without checking them first?     If you don't have the correct inside/outside bore gauges and/or micrometers, Plasti-gauge is at least better than nothing. Costly Lesson.....
                                                                            Bobby

You're reading into the situation.

The replacement crankshaft came with a "matched" set of bearings. All in one 80 pound box.

When the shop opened the box to install it all, they found that the rod bearings were not even Cadillac 470/500 bearings, but instead looked like they were for a small block chev engine. So they had to send out for the proper rod bearing set. They did not try to install them.

Guess who gets to pay for the 2nd set of bearings???

This is what I did:

OK, That looks neat. is there a fitting to block off the T until I can get a gauge set installed?

Mike,
What prompted you to use studs instead of Head bolts?
Greg Surfas

Greg;
A: Much easier to get the heads off again if needed.
B: Replacing my 50 year old head bolts seems to be a good idea. They have been out once already, and this is one area where you don't want to have any weakness in even one bolt.
C: They are stronger than head bolts.
D: Head stud kit was readily available while head bolt set didn't appear to be as easy to find. Of course it would have been better if ARP had put the correct size washers in the kit...

[Bobby B]

The replacement crankshaft came with a "matched" set of bearings. All in one 80 pound box.
When the shop opened the box to install it all, they found that the rod bearings were not even Cadillac 470/500 bearings, but instead looked like they were for a small block chev engine. So they had to send out for the proper rod bearing set. They did not try to install them.
Guess who gets to pay for the 2nd set of bearings???

Got it...

If it were me, that crank would be on it's way back to where it came from. Please have the shop check the crank NOW, before you even bother installing it. There are crank grinders, and there are crank grinders......
                                                    Bobby

[cadillacmike68]

Got it...

If it were me, that crank would be on it's way back to where it came from. Please have the shop check the crank NOW, before you even bother installing it. There are crank grinders, and there are crank grinders......
                                                    Bobby

This was a VERY LARGE SCALE crank refurb company in MN, They just screwed up and put the wrong rod bearings in it.

It went in fine once the correct rod bearings were sourced.

I'm going to give them hell for it and get a set of .020 over sent to me for use with my original crankshaft when it is is repaired.

I glad I was able to get that one. I bought it from RockAuto, but the vendor was easily identified. You just Can't get cranks for this engine under $400 anywhere else and that's WITHOUT any bearings, and usually not ground & polished. This one was less than $400, shipped with bearings (well at least half the bearings!) If you go look at Rockauto right now, you MUST send in your original crank FIRST now. That was immediately After I bought this one.

[chrisntam]

OK, That looks neat. is there a fitting to block off the T until I can get a gauge set installed?

Just use a pipe plug until you get a gauge.

I just went to the parts store with the gauge and oil pressure switch, bought the fittings, Teflon tape and assembled it.  Normally, oil pressure gauges can be 1/8" or 1/4" pipe thread.

With the gauge, the oil doesn't pressure the gauge up for a few seconds after it starts.  Must we way down the oil pressure line....

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

A: Much easier to get the heads off again if needed. 

I take it that you have never tried to remove heads that are held down with a Stud Kit?

Okay with Copper Gaskets, or O Rings as in racing applications, as these don't stick, and rely on the stud pressure for total sealing, but definitely not with gaskets that stick to both surfaces.

Bruce.

[cadillacmike68]

^^
Well, at least it will be easier to get the nuts & washers off than undoing the bolts in the block. 

[cadillacmike68]

Just use a pipe plug until you get a gauge.

I just went to the parts store with the gauge and oil pressure switch, bought the fittings, Teflon tape and assembled it.  Normally, oil pressure gauges can be 1/8" or 1/4" pipe thread.

With the gauge, the oil doesn't pressure the gauge up for a few seconds after it starts.  Must we way down the oil pressure line....

Chris;

What type of "parts store" did you go to, an auto parts store of or homeless despot type of store???

[TJ Hopland]

You would likely have the best luck at a home depot or hardware like store.   If you had an old school parts store with 'old guys' at the counter they may have it too but most stores can't look up or find anything without a year make and model and then it has to be a real car part which this isn't. 

Sensors on these engines are standard national pipe threads NPT.   Hardware and home stores should have plugs as well as adapters and T's in brass.   

[chrisntam]

As TJ said, Home Depot, hardware store and even local parts stores should carry these common brass fittings.

Yours should be the same size as mine,  it appears to be 1/4" pipe thread.  You'll need:

1 male to male fitting (one end screws into the block, the other screws into the 3-way noted below)
1 3-way female adapter (screw one end of the male fitting one port, screw your factory oil pressure sender into one and screw your oil pressure gauge sender into the third port)
1 pipe plug (1/4") if you need to plug the 2nd port until you acquire a gauge.

Add a little bit of Teflon tape to all threads and you'll be good to go.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Add a little bit of Teflon tape to all threads and you'll be good to go. 

Sorry, but using a thread tape is not recommended when installing electrical components as there is the possibility of compromising the passage of connectivity between the component and ground.

Bruce.

[chrisntam]

Sorry, but using a thread tape is not recommended when installing electrical components as there is the possibility of compromising the passage of connectivity between the component and ground.

Bruce.

It gets grounded because the tape is cut by the sharp edges of the threads.  Just don't load it up like your strangling it....

Haven't had an issue using tape on any of my stuff.

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Some people do like to load them up, and then rely on the tape to seal.

Bruce.

[cadillacmike68]

Thanks gents.

I tried an o'reiley's today, and found the "street T" in too small a size! So I guess its off to the homeless despot for the fittings. I have a new sender that I bought to verify the threads. I am familiar with NPT, there's one or two standards for each thread diameter, usually called coarse and fine (thread pitch...) I did find a decent oil and volts gauge at o'reiley's (two separate gauges, because I don't need a temp gauge).

[chrisntam]

AFAIK, there is only one thread pitch for pipe threaded fittings.  I "think" each size has it's own pitch.  1/8" NPT "looks" pretty fine, 1/4" is a little more coarse, as is 3/8" and 1/2".  It gets progressively more coarse.

[cadillacmike68]

I found the 3 brass fittings at the local homeless despot, so I'll being them to the shop tomorrow. Took less than 5 min vs over a half hour at o'reiley's (who didn't have the necessary fittings).

This was / is 1/4 NPT. That's the size of the Tube / Pipe and NOT the size of the threaded end..... and my 3/8 transmission lines use 1/2 in threads... Those crazy NPT thread standards. And we're supposedly on the "metric" standard and have been for 30-40 years ??

[Glen]

It is my understanding that pipe sizes are based on ID back when the standard was established.  Materials have become much better and the walls can be thinner than before, but the thread is on the OD of the pipe so the OD cannot be changed.  As a result, the actual sizes are larger.  For example ¼“ pipe is actually 3/8” ID an 1/2" OD.  its pretty confusing until you work with it for a while.   

[cadillacmike68]

Even  more confusing when these are just fittings for automotive sensors and there is NO pipe being connected.

I've looked at some oil gauges, and I DO NOT want a gauge that has a plastic tube with oil being pumped under pressure to the gauge for a reading. That is a good way to lose all my oil, when, Not if that plastic line breaks.

so I guess I need an electrical oil gauge (and a volts gauge to keep an eye on charging level).