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Author Topic: 1962 Front End  (Read 775 times)

Offline StevenTuck

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1962 Front End
« on: November 19, 2017, 04:13:29 AM »
I recently had new tires installed and hub balanced. I also had new brakes, wheel cylinders and brake drums (original drums) installed. Now it seems between 40 and 45 there is a rather noticeable bouncing in the left front (drivers side). During the original restoration I had the complete front end suspension done. Could it be the wheels out of round or bent or something else? Any ideas of what could be causing this? Thanks for your help.
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Offline The Tassie Devil(le)

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2017, 05:22:54 AM »
Even though you have had the balance done, it sounds like a wheel out of balance to me.

A wheel out of round should have been detected as the wheel was being spun on the ballancer, as should be a tyre out of round.

Bruce. >:D
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Offline StevenTuck

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2017, 05:47:28 AM »
I should note that for some time I had previous notable bounce on the drivers side. Rebalancing the old set of tires never seemed to completely eliminate it. Could it be the front shocks?
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Online russ austin

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2017, 08:49:10 AM »
Worn shocks will allow a wheel to bounce. Change the shocks, and if it persists, swap the front  tires over to the other side and see if the bounce follows the tire. 
R.Austin

Offline Bobby B

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2017, 08:52:02 AM »
During the original restoration I had the complete front end suspension done.

Shouldn't that have included "New" Shocks?  ???
                                                       Bobby
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Offline 35-709

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2017, 09:46:42 AM »
I agree with bad tire or wheel, swapping the front tires around to see if the bounce swaps sides also would be my next step as Russ suggested.  Also agree, however, that a bad tire or wheel should have been caught when they did the balancing.  So, still a bit of a mystery, would like to hear the outcome.
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Offline StevenTuck

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2017, 03:59:12 PM »
I did the old standby shock test by pushing down on the front end. It came back and settled without further bouncing so I guess the shocks are good. I hate to buy new front shocks and replace them if their not bad. The car only has 30,000 miles on them in the past 11 years. As I remember, I would diagonally rotate the tires in the past. It just seemed there was always some kind of bouncing/vibration on the drivers side around 40 to 50 mph.
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Offline fishnjim

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2017, 08:17:44 AM »
When you get a vibration at a specific speed, it's a harmonic type problem.   The vibration frequency matches and amplifies.   I'd would look at the front wheel bearings, too, as they were removed for brake work.   Maybe not properly tightened or damaged.   The drums could've been improperly turned or are damaged.   Spindle damaged, etc.  Needs inspected thoroughly.   I'd take it back where they did the work and complain. 
Mostly these are tire problems in my experience though.   Some tires won't balance and need replaced.
"Bouncing" is associated with the shocks mostly.   So that's a cheap swop.   You'll get a wear pattern if you keep going.

Offline fishnjim

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2017, 09:01:46 AM »
I assume the front end was aligned.   

Offline 6262

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2017, 09:24:14 AM »
Steven,

nearly every owner of a '62 convertible is complaining about vibrations in the 40-50 mph range - including me. But it is mostly blamed on the propeller shaft and its alignment angles. Are you sure the problem is in the front suspension?

Offline Jeff Rose CLC #28373

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2017, 11:47:27 AM »
We have all been behind somebody with a bad shock and know what it looks like. Drive on a 4 lane road next to someone you know. Have them watch the front wheel to see if it is bouncing.
As far as the out of round goes. Yes it should have been caught but it depends on the mechanic. I had mine balanced when new tires were installed. The new tires had the markings on it. I could see it was out of round from outside the shop. The mechanic was putting the tire on the car when I went inside and had the guy stop him.
Jeff
« Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 11:49:21 AM by Jeff Rose CLC #28373 »
Jeff
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Offline StevenTuck

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2017, 11:58:04 AM »
Regarding the brake work, the drums were originals from Rick Smith in TX and turned. The hubs and bearings were inspected. New brake pads and cylinders were installed. As I said previously I seemed to have some bouncing/vibration on the drivers front before all this work. I did get new coker BFGoodrich tires installed and hub balanced. I guess the shocks could be a possibility.

Regarding the propeller shaft, I have never had issues with it. I only had to install a transmission mount which solved some vibration in that area. I still do have a minor clunk when putting it in gear from reverse.

The bouncing/vibration is also visible on the drivers side while I am driving. I am wondering if it might be a bad engine mount.

Jeff, I will check into the tire out-of-round possibility. The shop I used has been doing work for me for over 11 years. They know my car well and would have informed me if the wheel was out-of-round so I could get a replacement or if nothing else move it to the spare.
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Online Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2017, 02:56:17 PM »
The hopping coincided with the new tire installation?
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Offline Ralph Messina CLC 4937

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2017, 04:20:11 PM »
Hi Steven,

Iíd like to hear more symptoms.  Keying off of Ericís question:
- Did the vibration start with new tires? Is it better or worse now?
- What type of new tire did you install: bias, belted, radial and are they different than the prior set? Belt slippage can produce a lumpy tire sensation
- Do you feel any vibration in the steering wheel? Is it a vibration in the column or does the steering rotate a bit?
- The observation made that the tire can be seen bouncing while you were driving, was it obvious up and down and not shaking side to side? To visibly bounce up and down, that shock would have to be very weak and likely have evidence of severe leakage.
- In changing the brake drum, did you or the mechanic verify that the new one is a correct í62 part?
- Before mounting the new tires, did the shop mount the rim and check it for out of round and run out?
- As part of the tire balancing process  did the shop run a road force test on the tire? This applies a uniform load to the tread while the rotating and measures the force that the tire pushes back. Itís a test for hard or soft spots around the circumference of the tread. A road force variation of 12-15 pounds would not be noticeable in the car, but higher forces of the 30+ pounds would feel like elliptical tires.


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Offline Chuck Swanson

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2017, 07:18:31 PM »
I had the same issue on my '65 Eldo around 2000 miles ago, around 40-45 Mph only.  I too had the tires balanced using the correct weights.  However, I had them done at my friend's body shop.  I was at another shop for a different issue, mentioned, and the mechanic said he wanted to rebalance on his machine.  He did and the problem went away.  He explained the difference between the balancing machines, but I don't recall what type he had.  Chuck
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Offline The Tassie Devil(le)

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2017, 08:05:58 PM »
What sort of tyres are they?   Radials or Cross-plies?   Fabric or Steel Belts?

It is possible that you could have a flat spot on them if they have been sitting for a long time.

The old Polyester tyres used to do that, and they would lose their flat spot when the tyre warmed up, after a few miles of driving.

Bruce. >:D
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Offline 6262

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2017, 02:27:47 AM »
Regarding the propeller shaft, I have never had issues with it. I only had to install a transmission mount which solved some vibration in that area. I still do have a minor clunk when putting it in gear from reverse.

Steven, how is the clunk related to the propeller shaft? I have also a slight clunk when putting it in gear from reverse with an otherwise perfect transmission. It seems to have increased along with the vibrations in the 40 to 50 mph range which I need to address. But I have considered it an unrelated coincidence so far.

Offline StevenTuck

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2017, 11:24:49 AM »
Hi Steven,

Iíd like to hear more symptoms.  Keying off of Ericís question:
- Did the vibration start with new tires? NO Is it better or worse now? WORSE
- What type of new tire did you install: bias, belted, radial and are they different than the prior set? BIAS AND SAME A PREVIOUS SET, CORRECT SIZE FOR CAR. Belt slippage can produce a lumpy tire sensation
- Do you feel any vibration in the steering wheel? NO REALLY Is it a vibration in the column or does the steering rotate a bit? NEITHER, IT IS MORE OR A BOUNCING VISABLE AT THE DRIVER'S FENDER
- The observation made that the tire can be seen bouncing while you were driving, was it obvious up and down and not shaking side to side? MORE UP AND DOWN AT THE DRIVER'S FENDER To visibly bounce up and down, that shock would have to be very weak and likely have evidence of severe leakage.
- In changing the brake drum, did you or the mechanic verify that the new one is a correct í62 part? YES
- Before mounting the new tires, did the shop mount the rim and check it for out of round and run out? YES
- As part of the tire balancing process  did the shop run a road force test on the tire? This applies a uniform load to the tread while the rotating and measures the force that the tire pushes back. Itís a test for hard or soft spots around the circumference of the tread. A road force variation of 12-15 pounds would not be noticeable in the car, but higher forces of the 30+ pounds would feel like elliptical tires. I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF SUCH A TEST. I WILL HAVE TO ASK THEM.
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Offline StevenTuck

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2017, 11:27:52 AM »
Steven, how is the clunk related to the propeller shaft? I have also a slight clunk when putting it in gear from reverse with an otherwise perfect transmission. It seems to have increased along with the vibrations in the 40 to 50 mph range which I need to address. But I have considered it an unrelated coincidence so far.
I believe it is something to do with the U-Joint. I am going to have another Cadillac Certified Mechanic in my area, Dana Giles, check on these issues.
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Offline 6262

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2017, 05:16:57 AM »
I would be happy to hear about the results!

 

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