Author Topic: 1962 Front End  (Read 776 times)

Online Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2017, 08:55:02 AM »
I recently had new tires installed and hub balanced. I also had new brakes, wheel cylinders and brake drums (original drums) installed. Now it seems between 40 and 45 there is a rather noticeable bouncing in the left front (drivers side).

- Did the vibration start with new tires? NO.

The two statements appear to be in direct conflict with one another. Very confused.  ???


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Offline StevenTuck

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2017, 10:12:03 AM »
Eric,

The vibration didn't start with the new tires. It had been there previously but not as bad. I could have the tires balanced previously and it would not be as bad but never go away.
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Online Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2017, 10:24:59 AM »
The vibration had been present for some time before but the problem immediately became worse upon new tires being installed?
A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for Which There is no Acceptable Substitute

Offline StevenTuck

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2017, 05:52:50 AM »
Eric,

I noticed a vibration/bouncing on the driver's front end for some time. At first I thought it was from a flat spot on the tires and as soon as the tires warmed up it would go away. Well it never really went away. It never was really smooth like the passenger side. About three years ago I had the old tires rebalanced and it seemed to help some but not completely. Fast forward to early this year. I had new tires and front brake work done with newer 1962 Cadillac drums. New replacement drums are made in China and don't meet specs and cause a multitude of braking problems.

I thought oh well this is an issue I would have to live with. Then I thought I would write a thread here and see what other owners might have experienced along with their insight. I have a scheduled appointment with a local ASE certified Cadillac mechanic on Tuesday. I wanted him to address my AC first and I plan on him looking at this issue. When he reports back I will let you all know what he says.
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Offline Scot Minesinger

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2017, 07:50:33 AM »
Comments:

1.  An out of balance tire would continue to get worse as speed increases past 45-50mph, how is it at 70mph?

2.  Tire balancing takes skill and patience to do them right.  Most shops in our area do not do a good job - could be faulty balance - look at the weights - if you have 30 oz. on one side you know it is a mess up.  Of course switching tires helps diagnose this problem.

3.  The subject of bias ply, manufactured really only for collector cars (DOT approval???) vs radials, that could be part of it.

4.  The front suspension of my 1970 Cadillac was restored 12 years ago and 40k miles ago and rides and drives perfect at all speeds, have not driven much past 80mph though very often.  Your suspension should be good.

5.  The split drive shaft is a likely problem.  I have only heard this can be a problem.

6.  Bad shocks would not cause a uniform vibration, such as an out of balance tire, and would be more evident on rougher roads.

Best of luck!
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

Online Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #25 on: November 26, 2017, 12:37:48 PM »
For starters I would try swapping the spare with the offending wheel and go from there.
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Offline StevenTuck

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2017, 05:15:56 AM »
Scot and I had a long talk yesterday. He informed me that Cadillac tires should be lug balanced not hub balanced. Also weights should be positioned on the outside of the rim, not the backside. I am going to try this and let you all know the results.
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Online Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2017, 09:15:19 AM »
You've already eliminated all possibility of a bad wheel and/or tire at the left front then?
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Offline StevenTuck

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2017, 05:03:08 AM »
Eric, I am going to find that too.
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Offline StevenTuck

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2017, 10:10:03 AM »
I just got a call from the tire store, Olin Mott, here in Tampa. They are the only tire store that balances the tires on the car like it was done in the '50s. They have been around since then. The manager informed me that my problem isn't as much a balance issue as the tires being out of round. He said he would have to shave some off. He said another new set would probably be the same. It was just something they often had to do with bias ply. I hope this improves the shaking/vibration issue. I will let you all know.
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Offline The Tassie Devil(le)

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2017, 04:58:52 PM »
The tyres being out of round is a major problem, and simply shaving off the high spots is not a good idea, as this will lead to having to increase the wheel weights to compensate for the rubber removed.

The "out of round" situation would not have been from manufacture, as they would have been perfect before being released to the market.   

I would be investing in a set of new tyres, and biting the bullet and going for Radials.

Leave the Bias-ply tyres for shows if necessary.   Safety is more important than looks.

But heck, I am a modifier.

Bruce. >:D
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Online cadillacmike68

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2017, 11:25:55 PM »
The tyres being out of round is a major problem, and simply shaving off the high spots is not a good idea, as this will lead to having to increase the wheel weights to compensate for the rubber removed.

The "out of round" situation would not have been from manufacture, as they would have been perfect before being released to the market.  

I would be investing in a set of new tyres, and biting the bullet and going for Radials.

Leave the Bias-ply tyres for shows if necessary.   Safety is more important than looks.

But heck, I am a modifier.

Bruce. >:D 

Not with many of these "collector car" tires!!!

Comments:

1.  An out of balance tire would continue to get worse as speed increases past 45-50mph, how is it at 70mph?

2.  Tire balancing takes skill and patience to do them right.  Most shops in our area do not do a good job - could be faulty balance - look at the weights - if you have 30 oz. on one side you know it is a mess up.  Of course switching tires helps diagnose this problem.

3.  The subject of bias ply, manufactured really only for collector cars (DOT approval???) vs radials, that could be part of it.

4.  The front suspension of my 1970 Cadillac was restored 12 years ago and 40k miles ago and rides and drives perfect at all speeds, have not driven much past 80mph though very often.  Your suspension should be good.

5.  The split drive shaft is a likely problem.  I have only heard this can be a problem.

6.  Bad shocks would not cause a uniform vibration, such as an out of balance tire, and would be more evident on rougher roads.

Best of luck!

Scot, I've met Steve and seen his ElDorado. I doubt that he gets it up to 70, It's far too clean and period correct.

On balancing. I've never had a problem with only having weights on the inside of the wheel, and I Do get my car up past 70 (& beyond). Nobody had the offset wheel weights that we need for our full diameter wheel covers anymore. I'm thinking its these so-called "collector" tires being out of round or badly unbalanced.


Steve, Have the front left switched with the right rear. That puts the suspected tire as far away from its original position as possible. Does the problem follow the tire? If yes, have them unseat and rotate the tire 180 degrees and re-balance.  Leave it in the back. Any improvement? If yes put it back on left front. If not, that tire should never have been sold. If switching them still leaves a vibration up front then the issue is with the suspension.

This is a big PITA, especially with tires, because the car has to go up every time, re-mounting, re-balancing, etc, but its the only way to isolate the problem.






« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 11:36:12 PM by cadillacmike68 »
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike
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2005 CTS Hi-Feature Sedan RWD
2000 ElDorado ESC Hard Boot Convertible
1995 Fleetwood Brougham
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Online cadillacmike68

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2017, 11:38:37 PM »
...The shop I used has been doing work for me for over 11 years. They know my car well and would have informed me if the wheel was out-of-round so I could get a replacement or if nothing else move it to the spare.

Steve, what is the name of the shop you go to? We're not that far away and I think I'll be looking for another general maintenance shop.
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike
Current:
1968 DeVille Convertible
1996 Fleetwood Brougham
2009 STS NorthStar Platinum ed RWD
2011 CTS PRemiun ed Sedan RWD
Past:
2008 CTS Premium ed Sedan AWD
2005 CTS Hi-Feature Sedan RWD
2000 ElDorado ESC Hard Boot Convertible
1995 Fleetwood Brougham
1973 Sedan DeVille
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
1969 DeVille Convertible

Offline StevenTuck

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2017, 05:14:14 AM »
Olin Mott tires store on Hillsborough Avenue in Tampa did a great job with my tires. The tires were brand new from Coker. Olin Mott said that I would probably have the same issue with a replacement new set as this was an on going issue with bias ply tires in the day.

I drove the car home and the bouncing issue is gone. I had this same issue with my previous set of bias ply tires from new and never knew how to rectify the issue. Now I know where to go.

The front end alignment was way off and they did a new alignment. The steering feels tighter and precise. I don't ever remember it feeling this smooth and precise. It was well worth the $225.
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Online Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2017, 07:17:05 AM »
A bum tire and/or wheel was my suspicion from the beginning. 

Glad you got it sorted out.
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Online cadillacmike68

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2017, 08:50:18 AM »
Tires, That's one of the things that got Ralph Nader all spun up like a Tasmanian devil on steroids.  :P

I think I know where the Olin Mott store is.

Steve are they your regular mechanics or you you have a different one for general mechanical work? If so who?
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike
Current:
1968 DeVille Convertible
1996 Fleetwood Brougham
2009 STS NorthStar Platinum ed RWD
2011 CTS PRemiun ed Sedan RWD
Past:
2008 CTS Premium ed Sedan AWD
2005 CTS Hi-Feature Sedan RWD
2000 ElDorado ESC Hard Boot Convertible
1995 Fleetwood Brougham
1973 Sedan DeVille
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
1969 DeVille Convertible

Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2017, 09:18:20 AM »
Occasionally I have had to have tires "trued" (shaved to make truly round).  This has helped immensely in solving "hopping" problems.  If the tires are not round, this helps.
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan

Online Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2017, 09:33:32 AM »
For what it's worth - I've never had an issue with the US Royal repro tires from Coker in the 5 sets I've purchased over the last 7 years. The Cokers on my '62 CdV are now 7 years old and the car still rides like glass at all speeds.

The only way Coker is going to know if there's a quality problem is customer feedback. For a brand new tire not to perform properly is unacceptable.

A Cadillac Motorcar is a Possession for Which There is no Acceptable Substitute

Online cadillacmike68

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2017, 04:38:50 PM »
Steve, your regular mechanic's name - yes - no?
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike
Current:
1968 DeVille Convertible
1996 Fleetwood Brougham
2009 STS NorthStar Platinum ed RWD
2011 CTS PRemiun ed Sedan RWD
Past:
2008 CTS Premium ed Sedan AWD
2005 CTS Hi-Feature Sedan RWD
2000 ElDorado ESC Hard Boot Convertible
1995 Fleetwood Brougham
1973 Sedan DeVille
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
1969 DeVille Convertible

Offline StevenTuck

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Re: 1962 Front End
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2017, 03:57:43 AM »
Steve, your regular mechanic's name - yes - no?
Classic Auto Repair (Don)
1465 Savannah Ave
Tarpon Springs FL 34689
727-945-7873
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