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1955 Kelsey Hayes Sabre wheels question

Started by Cadillac Jack 82, February 14, 2018, 04:27:11 PM

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Cadillac Jack 82


I've read several different threads here regarding the 1955 Kelsey Hayes Sabre wheels.  My question is how well do these wheels hold up?  The reason I ask is I've seen various threats that you have to use inner tubes or that they leak air.  I have a chance to pick up a set of 5 in excellent shape for a good price.  My question is...are they worth dealing with?
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1959 Cadillac CDV "Shelley"
1964 Cadillac SDV "Rosalie"
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado "Sienna"

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Cpe
1940 Chevrolet Cpe
1941 Ford 11Y
1954 Buick 48D
1955 Cadillac CDV
1955 Packard Clipper
1957 Cadillac Series 62
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1966 Mercury Montclair
1967 Buick Wildcat Convertible
1968 Chevy Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln MKV

Barry M Wheeler #2189

#1
I never had to put tubes in mine and drove the car to middle Tennessee from central Indiana with them on at freeway speeds. If you can find a decent set for a "good price" buy them and if you don't use them, someone will quickly take them off your hands. They were used on Cadillacs for several years. That ought to give you a hint of their reliability.
Barry M. Wheeler #2189


1981 Cadillac Seville
1991 Cadillac Seville

Mike Josephic CLC #3877

#2
I have them on my 1955 Eldorado.  They are well made
and quite reliable.  Some people do not understand that
these are "hybrid" construction.  They have a inner steel
wheel riveted to a chrome plated (1955 chrome, 1956
gold anodized) aluminum outer wheel. The rivets are
inside the tire around the circumference of the wheel.

They used a sealing compound when they joined
the two halves together to help prevent leaks.
After all these years, an original set will likely have
a few leaks.

You can eliminate any possibility of leaking by
using a tube.  It's really no big deal -- I have
tubes in mine even though they were rebuilt. 
One less thing to worry about.

Bottom line:  They look great on the car -- if
you like them, buy them.  Try to get the best
set you can since rebuilding and rechroming
(for show) is quite expensive.

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

Eldorado James

It also depends what you plan to use them on......as I recall the 1957-58 versions were made a bit differently and could be used on more cars than the initial 1954-56's.  I put some on my old 1960 Series 62 convertible years ago, they looked quite at home.
~Eldorado James~

Currently:
1972 Eldorado Convertible
1975 Eldorado Convertible

Past Cadillacs:  Too many to remember.

Cadillac Jack 82


This is for a 55 that I'm in the process of buying.
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1959 Cadillac CDV "Shelley"
1964 Cadillac SDV "Rosalie"
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado "Sienna"

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Cpe
1940 Chevrolet Cpe
1941 Ford 11Y
1954 Buick 48D
1955 Cadillac CDV
1955 Packard Clipper
1957 Cadillac Series 62
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1966 Mercury Montclair
1967 Buick Wildcat Convertible
1968 Chevy Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln MKV

D.Yaros

#5
As has been pointed out, the use of tubes is no big deal and does provide a bit of assurance.  Others have re-sealed the rims with mixed success.
Dave Yaros
CLC #25195
55 Coupe de Ville
92 Allante
62 Olds  

You will find me on the web @:
http://GDYNets.atwebpages.com  -Dave's Den
http://graylady.atwebpages.com -'55 CDV site
http://www.freewebs.com/jeandaveyaros  -Saved 62 (Oldsmobile) Web Site
The home of Car Collector Chronicles.  A  monthly GDYNets newsletter focusing on classic car collecting.
http://www.scribd.com/D_Yaros/

Chuck Swanson

I also have a nice set of '55 Sabres.  Chuck
CLC Lifetime
AACA Lifetime
Like 65-66 Club: www.facebook.com/6566Cadillac
66 DeVille Convertible-CLC Sr Wreath, (AACA 1st Jr 2021, Senior 2022, 1st GN 2022 Sr GN 2023), Audrain Concours '22 3rd in Class.
66 Sedan DeVille hdtp
66 Calais pillar sedan
66 Series 75 9-pass limo
65 Eldorado (vert w/bucket seats)
65 Fleetwood
07 DTS w/ Performance pkg.
67 Chevy II Nova (AACA Sr GN 2018)
69 Dodge Coronet R/T

Caddy Wizard

Sabres look wonderful on these cars and are no trouble.  Mine didn't give me any trouble on a 56 FW...
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under resto -- has been in paint shop since June 2022!)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1958 Eldo Seville (2/3 done)

Bill Young

My understanding is that the 1955 Sabre Spoke wheels need an inner tube but the 1956 ones do not.

Cadillac Jack 82

Tim

CLC Member #30850

1959 Cadillac CDV "Shelley"
1964 Cadillac SDV "Rosalie"
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado "Sienna"

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Cpe
1940 Chevrolet Cpe
1941 Ford 11Y
1954 Buick 48D
1955 Cadillac CDV
1955 Packard Clipper
1957 Cadillac Series 62
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1966 Mercury Montclair
1967 Buick Wildcat Convertible
1968 Chevy Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln MKV

Mike Josephic CLC #3877

To the best of my knowledge, the construction of the
'55 & '56 Sabre Wheels are the same.  I've seen both
and they appear identical to me.

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

Lexi

#11
Hope the following answers some questions, but it also raised some new ones:

Cadillac Data Books for 1955 & 1956 state that tubeless tires were issued, with I believe 1955 being the introductory year for Sabres as well as first year for tubeless tires as standard issue for Cadillac. No differentiation noted for Sabre or regular steel rims, but the Mid-Century Cadillac Forum article on Sabres notes that ’55 Sabres did require an inner tube. The article also explained that '55 & '56 Sabres were manufactured differently. The '55 "split rim" design incorporated 2 half rims riveted together; half aluminum-half steel. The '56 'clad' design used a single steel rim so it was stronger, while it still had the aluminum turbine portion riveted to the steel, but using fewer rivets. So in theory there is less chance of air leaking by way of failing rivets, (because there are less of them),… as well as one less seam to worry about as the rim was one piece steel, (as Mike accurately noted).

My observations of actual ‘56 Sabres agree with the above noted, though I am not overly familiar with the ’55 Sabres. That said, I saw a set of rims that were identified as 1955 chrome Sabres, bearing Kelsey Hayes hub #38612. I believe this is a genuine 1955 KH number. What seemed odd is that they appeared to have the same number of rivets as the '56s, (at the time I did not count them). There is a photograph posted on the MCF site which details a 1955 Sabre rim compared to the 1956 unit. The difference in the number of rivets used is quite apparent in their comparison photos. I believe the '56 rim has 12 rivets, not sure about the '55 but in the photo you can see 10 or 11 on ONE SIDE. The apparent "55" I saw which I took a photo of, you can see 5 or 6 on ONE SIDE. More or less consistent with the '56 rim.

Based on what I saw, however, it appears that there were 2 Sabre rims made in 1955. If so, perhaps there was a change early in the model year to incorporate more rivets to solve air leaks that were noted early in production? Perhaps that is why the Data Book doesn’t mention inner tubes for 1955 Sabres as that problem crept up after publication? Just a guess. I don’t have all of the Cadillac Serviceman bulletins for model year 1955, so perhaps there was something in there on this? I stand to be corrected.

If the 1955 'Split rim' design found on the Mid-Century Forum is accurate, and the split rim type I saw did bear a genuine 1955 number, then there appears to be 2 types of '55 Sabres. Not sure which one is the more prevalent. Period Master Parts Lists I searched seem to indicate that there was only one part number for chrome Sabres, (which they called Turbines), in 1955. If there were 2 types made in 1955, that is contrary to what I thought I knew about these rims. Also ran into some apparent Series 75 Sabre oddities but will leave that for now… Clay/Lexi

Attachments: Side view of 55 Sabre, side view of 56 Sabre, side view of "questioned" 55 Sabre & of Hub #
P.S. Never had a problem with rivets leaking on my '56 set.

Cadillac Jack 82


Thank you.  The wheels that I saw were definitely 55's.  Does anyone recommend a inner tube brand for these wheels?  I was hoping to not go down this route but I have my heart set on getting these Sabres.
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1959 Cadillac CDV "Shelley"
1964 Cadillac SDV "Rosalie"
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado "Sienna"

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Cpe
1940 Chevrolet Cpe
1941 Ford 11Y
1954 Buick 48D
1955 Cadillac CDV
1955 Packard Clipper
1957 Cadillac Series 62
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1966 Mercury Montclair
1967 Buick Wildcat Convertible
1968 Chevy Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln MKV

Mike Josephic CLC #3877

Tim, the best advice I can give you on that is to check with
the guys you bought the tires from.  They can recommend
the correct size and type of tube.

As far as leaks, as mentioned in a previous post in this
thread, Cadillac was aware of the problem.  It is mentioned
in the April issue of the "Serviceman" in 1955.  Their "fix"
was for the dealer to order a can of a product called "Seal-All"
which was a type of rubber cement.  The process was to
demount the tire, brush this material on all welds and rivets
and remount it.

Now you can see why many people used tubes with these early
Sabres.

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

David King (kz78hy)

Some butyl rubber (old style windshield adhesive) smeared on each joint might achieve an air tight seal.  I would try that first and will on my '55 when the time comes.

David
David King
CLC 22014  (life)
1958 Eldorado Brougham 615
1959 Eldorado Brougham 56- sold
1960 Eldorado Brougham 83- sold
1998 Deville d'Elegance
1955 Eldorado #277
1964 Studebaker Commander
2012 Volt
CLCMRC benefactor 197

Director and Founder, Eldorado Brougham Chapter
Past President, Motor City Region

Rare Parts brand suspension parts Retailer via Keep'em Running Automotive

Lexi

#15
Tim if you choose NOT to use an inner tube, consider the following. Although my '56 sabres are less prone to leaking than the '55s, I still took precautions. On each rivet, inside the rim, I applied a circular inner tube rubber patch to cover each rivet. They were a perfect size. Once dry, I then applied an even dab of the Permatex product, The Right Stuff, black, one minute rubber gasket compound, (may also have used this to glue them down 1st instead of the usual rubber cement). Later, after drying and waiting overnight, I laid down a thin coat of tire bead sealer over all. Tires were then installed, with new valve stems, balanced and all has been well for past 3 or 4 years. Would be a pain to do 22 or so rivets on each '55 rim, but using a rubber tube liner instead of the patches, would probably be a lot easier. Make sure you also coat that seam in your rim as well, (where the 2 halves are joined). This way if you decided to use an inner tube later, the liner would be there to protect the tube from heat and friction wear. Coker Tire sells tube flaps and rim strips last time I checked. Make sure the Permatex 'dab' is smooth so it will not interfere with an inner tube should you later install one. Clay/Lexi

Cadillac Jack 82


Thanks everyone.  I appreciate the advice.  I'll post pictures once I install the tires on my 1955.
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1959 Cadillac CDV "Shelley"
1964 Cadillac SDV "Rosalie"
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado "Sienna"

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Cpe
1940 Chevrolet Cpe
1941 Ford 11Y
1954 Buick 48D
1955 Cadillac CDV
1955 Packard Clipper
1957 Cadillac Series 62
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1966 Mercury Montclair
1967 Buick Wildcat Convertible
1968 Chevy Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln MKV

Lexi

Great! Looking forward to seeing the shots! Forgot to mention but the reason I used that Permatex gasket sealer was that it is heat resistant, a good property to have especially considering the heat transfer as generated by heavy braking in these old drum systems. Clay/Lexi