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Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => Technical / Authenticity => Topic started by: M3-SRT8 on December 17, 2012, 10:55:14 PM

Title: 1940 Cadillac Radio Restoration
Post by: M3-SRT8 on December 17, 2012, 10:55:14 PM
Greetings,

I am new to this forum, and need some help.

I'm restoring a radio out of a 1940 Cadillac Fleetwood, and I've run into a couple of snags.

Here is the Radio. It is missing the back cover:

(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/300cSRT8_photos/1940%20Cadillac%20Radio/1940CadillacRadioRestoration024.jpg)

(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/300cSRT8_photos/1940%20Cadillac%20Radio/1940CadillacRadioRestoration002.jpg)

I started recapping the radio, and while checking the tubes I noticed that one "tube" seemed to be missing. But, it's not a tube. as all are accounted for.

The missing part is in the corner shown here. It LOOKS like a tube socket, but I suspect it's something else. What IS it...?

(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/300cSRT8_photos/1940%20Cadillac%20Radio/1940CadillacRadioRestoration026.jpg)

Also, right next to the missing "tube" is a multi-section electrolytic enclosed in a light metal can. It's the tall can to the right of the missing part.

I can't get underneath to unsolder the can to replace it, as it seems to be covered by some shielding underneath. Anybody know how to get at it? Electrolytic Caps need to be replaced, as they are a frequent source of "buzzing" in old radios.

Thanks!

LJB 8)
Title: Re: 1940 Cadillac Radio Restoration
Post by: Tomoldcars on December 17, 2012, 11:11:55 PM
The missing part is the vibrator. Any 6 volt 4 pin vibrator should fit. I have heard of solid state versions, but have not used them. I have a 40 Cad radio in the garage; Iíll drag it out tomorrow and look at it. Yours looks like itís in nice shape, mine is missing one of the plastic push buttons. Replacing the E-Caps is a good idea, but avoid just tying new caps across the existing terminals. If the old caps are leaky or shorted they could damage other components.

Good luck,   Tom
Title: Re: 1940 Cadillac Radio Restoration
Post by: Glen on December 18, 2012, 12:01:02 AM
Most likely the shield is soldered in, so you will need to unsolder the shield from the chassis to get to the cap leads. 

That needs a bigger soldering iron (higher wattage).

 
Title: Re: 1940 Cadillac Radio Restoration
Post by: M3-SRT8 on December 18, 2012, 08:14:31 AM
Thanks, Gents.

Is this the Solid State Vibrator Replacement?

http://www.tubesandmore.com/products/P-V1015P
Title: Re: 1940 Cadillac Radio Restoration
Post by: Walter Youshock on December 18, 2012, 08:27:08 AM
I picked up a 12V for my '57 at Hershey from this company:  http://www.radiosforoldcars.com/who.htm.  They would be able to tell you more than Antique Electronic Supply.  When the vibrator goes bad, fuses will blow constantly.  Hopefully Doug Houston will see this thread and weigh in.  He is a tube radio (car and home) guru!
Title: Re: 1940 Cadillac Radio Restoration
Post by: M3-SRT8 on December 18, 2012, 12:54:18 PM
I'm into Tube Televisions and Radios. I have 16 restored TVs from 1946 to 1952. I'm restoring the 1940 Cadillac Radio as a favor to my attorney.

Here's a 1949 DuMont I just restored.

(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/300cSRT8_photos/DuMont%20RA-108%20Restoration/DuMontRA-108AFinalAssembly2003.jpg)

(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/300cSRT8_photos/DuMont%20RA-108%20Restoration/DuMontRA-108ATest3002.jpg)

I'm into cars. Here's my one and only vintage ride.

(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/300cSRT8_photos/1958%20Plymouth%20Fury/scan0001-3.jpg)
Title: Re: 1940 Cadillac Radio Restoration
Post by: Walter Youshock on December 18, 2012, 02:38:25 PM
That Dumont is BEAUTIFUL!  If you can fix that then this radio will be like changing batteries in a flashlight!  Vintage audio is my other outlet.  I have a Fisher 5ooB, an Executive and an RCA Mark I but, when it comes to electronics, I have to send everything to a pro.  Wish I could learn to repair electronics but I'd do more damage than good.  At least the consoles take up less room than one car.
Title: Re: 1940 Cadillac Radio Restoration
Post by: M3-SRT8 on December 18, 2012, 04:13:05 PM
Hey, Walter. I'm at present underneath the shielding trying to free the multi-section electrolytic can. It's soldered in place. What a b*tch.

Glad you like the DuMont. I just woke up it's biggest brother, a 1951 30" DuMont Royal Sovereign. You should see that baby.

(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/300cSRT8_photos/DuMont%20RA-119%20Royal%20Sovereign/DuMontRA-119A-Picture-R155Uppedto25K001.jpg)

(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/300cSRT8_photos/DuMont%20RA-119%20Royal%20Sovereign/DuMontRA-119A-TheAsphaltJungle002.jpg)

Probably the first time Sterling Hayden has peered out of that CRT in 50 years...

(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/300cSRT8_photos/DuMont%20RA-119%20Royal%20Sovereign/DuMontRA-119A-TheAsphaltJungle015.jpg)
Title: 1940 Cadillac Radio Restoration
Post by: bcroe on December 18, 2012, 06:54:11 PM
That is a nice looking radio.  I once tried to make an electronic vibrator for a '38, but
didn't find enough room in the metal can.  I bolted a couple MOSFETs to the underside
of the chassis, drove them with 110 HZ, it worked. 

Those are beautiful, bright, sharp pictures on the TVs, none of mine ever looked that
good.  I grew up with tubes in the 50s, but by the time I started working, ICs were
just starting to catch on.  I'm watching for a 12LP4 or 12QP4 (round) CRT for my '48
ANDREA  VK12.  Restoring it for a couple reasons: I had one in school; it uses an
INDUCTUNER covering from CHANNEL ONE to channel 13 in a continuous tuning
range, including everything in between (ham, police, FM).  Bruce Roe  CLC # 14630
Title: Re: 1940 Cadillac Radio Restoration
Post by: M3-SRT8 on December 18, 2012, 07:27:35 PM
That is a nice looking radio.  I once tried to make an electronic vibrator for a '38, but
didn't find enough room in the metal can.  I bolted a couple MOSFETs to the underside
of the chassis, drove them with 110 HZ, it worked. 

Those are beautiful, bright, sharp pictures on the TVs, none of mine ever looked that
good.  I grew up with tubes in the 50s, but by the time I started working, ICs were
just starting to catch on.  I'm watching for a 12LP4 or 12QP4 (round) CRT for my '48
ANDREA  VK12.  Restoring it for a couple reasons: I had one in school; it uses an
INDUCTUNER covering from CHANNEL ONE to channel 13 in a continuous tuning
range, including everything in between (ham, police, FM).  Bruce Roe  CLC # 14630

You mean, like this?

(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/300cSRT8_photos/Andrea%20T-VK12%20and%20Table%20Resto/AndreaT-VK12Resto009-1.jpg)

(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/300cSRT8_photos/Andrea%20T-VK12%20and%20Table%20Resto/AndreaT-VK12Resto005-3.jpg)

(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/300cSRT8_photos/Andrea%20T-VK12%20and%20Table%20Resto/AndreaT-VK12Resto003-2.jpg)
Title: Re: 1940 Cadillac Radio Restoration
Post by: M3-SRT8 on December 18, 2012, 09:34:07 PM
Tell me, how do you set the Preset push buttons on the Tuner?
Title: Re: 1940 Cadillac Radio Restoration
Post by: Doug Houston on December 18, 2012, 10:20:16 PM
Nice DuMonts, so, so much for that. Don't overlook that nice RCA 630, though. I have both versions of it, myself. (630TS and 8TS30)

Looks like the power transformer has been replaced on the Cadillac set, but that's no issue here. Yes, you need a new vibrator. When Delco began to supply radios for the GM divisions (1940 was the first Delco set for Cadillac), the used a conventional vibrator, but with a freaky base. It was derived from a standard 6 pin tube base, with pins no. 2 and 5 missing. Mallory's part number was 870, but they haven't been made for years.

While I have had to quit working on other people's sets for some time now (age has pulled back on my reins) I might recommend changing the vibrator socket to a conventional 4 pin tube socket.

Look at the socket from beneath the chassis. This is the same as looking at the vibrator pins pointing upward. Pin #1 is the big one on the left. Pins #2 and #3 are the two smaller ones on the top side, and pin #4 is the right hand large one. I you replace the original socket with a regular 4 pin one, number those pins just like I just described the old vibrator base.   

 If you replace the socket then the pins will again number the same way as on the original socket.  You always count the pins with the 2 large ones on the bottom, and count clockwise. With the new 4 pin socket in place, pin one will connect to chassis ground, and the two small pins are the leads to the power transformer. The right hand pin, (#4) looking at the pins, is unused. Try eBay for a new old stock 4 pin vibrator. It could be a reasonable source. If you get trouble, PM me, and we'll try to get you out of the grease.   
Title: Re: 1940 Cadillac Radio Restoration
Post by: M3-SRT8 on December 18, 2012, 11:04:33 PM
You mean, one of these, Doug?

(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/300cSRT8_photos/NEW%20RCA%20Victor%20630TS%20Resto/NEW630TSFinalAssembly023.jpg)

(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/300cSRT8_photos/NEW%20RCA%20Victor%20630TS%20Resto/NEW630TSFinalAssembly021.jpg)

(http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj7/300cSRT8_photos/NEW%20RCA%20Victor%20630TS%20Resto/NEW630TSFinalAssembly018.jpg)

BTW, AES has a direct replacement, in Solid State, for the Vibrator. Same rectangular pin arrangement as mine.

http://www.tubesandmore.com/products/P-V1015P
Title: Re: 1940 Cadillac Radio Restoration
Post by: buicksplus on December 19, 2012, 01:22:56 AM
Those TV's are beautiful, remind me of Howdy Doody!

I have a radio just like yours in my 40 LaSalle.  The presets are set with a screwdriver under each button.  Can't remember exactly how to do it, could be turning them with the button pushed in will set the station.  Or you push in on the screw and turn to tune.

My radio worked OK for several years and sounded good.  It was rather weak compared to a modern radio.  It would only work in areas with very strong signals.  Not sure I had the whip antenna set up properly.  It drew lots of current too. Ignition noise was a problem with mine, I probably needed some extra capacitors and suppression stuff.

It finally quit and I have not repaired it.  Someday I will, once I get the energy to fish that heavy unit from behind the dash!

Happy Listening!   
Bill
Title: Re: 1940 Cadillac Radio Restoration
Post by: M3-SRT8 on December 19, 2012, 12:09:33 PM
Those TV's are beautiful, remind me of Howdy Doody!

I have a radio just like yours in my 40 LaSalle.  The presets are set with a screwdriver under each button.  Can't remember exactly how to do it, could be turning them with the button pushed in will set the station.  Or you push in on the screw and turn to tune.

My radio worked OK for several years and sounded good.  It was rather weak compared to a modern radio.  It would only work in areas with very strong signals.  Not sure I had the whip antenna set up properly.  It drew lots of current too. Ignition noise was a problem with mine, I probably needed some extra capacitors and suppression stuff.

It finally quit and I have not repaired it.  Someday I will, once I get the energy to fish that heavy unit from behind the dash!

Happy Listening!   
Bill

They're not heavy, Bill. Plus, they're pretty easy to work on, when you understand it's workings.
Title: 1940 Cadillac Radio Restoration
Post by: bcroe on December 19, 2012, 02:26:49 PM
Quote from: M3-SRT8
   You mean, like this?

Yes, that's the one.  I just don't know where I'll find a CRT for mine. 
Maybe a much newer rectangular CRT could be adopted?  Bruce 
Title: Re: 1940 Cadillac Radio Restoration
Post by: M3-SRT8 on December 19, 2012, 06:58:22 PM
Yes, that's the one.  I just don't know where I'll find a CRT for mine. 
Maybe a much newer rectangular CRT could be adopted?  Bruce

Naa...wait for a 12LP or QP4. The deflection coil wouldn't work properly with a square tube, even if the pin array is the same.

Besides, you don't want to butcher a nice tv like that.

Check on eBay. They come up. Especially 12LP4s. 8)
Title: Re: 1940 Cadillac Radio Restoration
Post by: Doug Houston on December 19, 2012, 09:51:28 PM
Yep, that's the 630TS, all right.

I bought mine in a TV shop, in Eatontown,New Jersey, in 1953. It was a trade-in, up with a second floor full of just such sets. I paid 35 bucks for it.

Later that year, I bought the 8TS30 in Asbury Park, NJ, and it was around 40 bucks. They're both still like new. The original tuners had lousy sensitivity, so I installed a Standard Cascode tuner in each of them.   Anyone who remembers the late forties knows that the RCA 630TS was the standard by which all TV sets were judged.  The 630 chassis was also the basis chassis for the projection sets of those days. I have one as a 9PC41.

Oh, and among all my toys, is a 1939 RCA TRK-12; working.


And on Solid State vibrators, I know about them, of course, and I don't like 'em.
Title: Re: 1940 Cadillac Radio Restoration
Post by: Mike Josephic CLC #3877 on December 19, 2012, 11:52:56 PM
Hi Lee (M3-SRT8)

My other hobby is Ham radio.  I really love the restorations you did on those old Dumont
televisions.  The pic of Sterling Haden in the Asphalt Jungle was an especially neat
touch.  The picture quality on your sets is much better than I remember as a kid watching
our old sets in the 50's.  My Dad was also a fan of Dumont TV's.  He was an electrical engineer
and repaired TV's as a side job.  I learned quite a bit about tube equipment looking over his
shoulder.

Great work!

Mike




Title: Re: 1940 Cadillac Radio Restoration
Post by: C.R. Patton II on December 20, 2012, 08:43:36 AM


Ladies and Gentleman

Wow this is a great club and fantastic forum! Reading and learning from these posts is better than college...and cheaper too.

Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge.
Title: Re: 1940 Cadillac Radio Restoration
Post by: M3-SRT8 on December 20, 2012, 08:19:14 PM
I wish to thank everybody for the kind commemts, and the help in ressurecting this 1940 Delco Radio. It really is a nicely made unit, and I can't wait to power it up. I only have to wait for the solid state vibrator to arrive, and she should sing just fine.

I ended up replacing all but the two silver micas as far as caps are concerned. I left the resistors be as they seem to measure ok. Some measured a little high, but I'll wait until first power up to address any difficulties, if any.

Merry Christmas To All;

Lee J Barmakian
Title: 1940 Cadillac Radio Restoration
Post by: bcroe on December 20, 2012, 11:00:44 PM
Quote from: Mike Josephic  CLC #3877
Hi Lee (M3-SRT8)

My other hobby is Ham radio.  I really love the restorations you did on those old Dumont
televisions.  The pic of Sterling Haden in the Asphalt Jungle was an especially neat
touch.  The picture quality on your sets is much better than I remember as a kid watching
our old sets in the 50's.  My Dad was also a fan of Dumont TV's.  He was an electrical engineer
and repaired TV's as a side job.  I learned quite a bit about tube equipment looking over his
shoulder.        Great work!   Mike     

Yea, HAM here too since 1958.  After I bought a 79 Eldo in '96, I reverse engineered the
analog computer fuel injection.  So another hobby is keeping the ancient ECUs going for
Cad owners.  But the tube stuff is always interesting.  Bruce Roe   K9MQG