Author Topic: What is a Biarritz?  (Read 1590 times)

Offline Jason Edge

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Re: What is a Biarritz?
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2017, 07:46:17 AM »
The 1964 Eldorado information is off the main topic, but I hate seeing this misinformation continued to be propagated and will make one more stab at this. Here is some of the key documentation you need to be looking at, in addition to the reputable reference material such as Roy A. Schneider's Cadillacs of the Sixties (see page 100, there is a full page on the 1964 Fleetwood Eldorado).

Sales Brochures: The 1963 regular and prestige brochures refers to and illustrates the 1963 Eldorado as the Eldorado Biarritz. The 1964 regular and prestige brochures refers to and illustrates the 1964 Eldorado as a Fleetwood Eldorado, and goes on to explain that it is part of the Fleetwood body series.

Owners Manuals: The 1963 Owners manual refers to the to the 1963 Eldorado as the Eldorado Biarritz (page 47). The 1964 Owners manual refers to the 1964 Eldorado as simply the Eldorado (page 46), with the word Biarritz dropped.

Specification Manual: The 1963 Specifications Manual refers to the to the 1963 Eldorado as the Eldorado Biarritz (pages 3 and 120, 121a, 121). The 1964 Specifications Manual refers to the 1964 Eldorado as the Fleetwood Eldorado (page 1, 57, 57a, 58).

Dealer Data Books: As previously mentioned the 1963 Dealer Data book refers to the Eldorado Biarriz (page 26, 44, 44a, 45, 94, 95 and elsewhere), and the 1964 Dealer Data Book refers to the Fleetwood Eldorado Convertible (page 26, 27, 42, 42a, 43, 90, 91 and elsewhere)

The brochures and owners manuals were not introduced mid production year. Cars were delivered with owners manuals, dealerships would have received their dealer data books, brochures at the beginning of the model year, not mid-year; there was no mistake in dropping the name Biarritz in all of the 1964 literature; and there was no mistake in brochures and Dealer Data Books indicating that the Eldorado was moved to the Fleetwood body series.

I could go on and on, but you have to do your homework instead of relying on what Wikipedia says (I believe they are the source that says the new Turbo Hydra-Matic transmission was a mid year change for the 1964 Cadillacs..... WRONG!!), or "other references".

So as you move from the 1963 to 1964 model year, and everyone is familiar with saying the Eldorado Biarritz ... kinda rolls off the tongue doesn't it... people without knowing the details advertise it, copy literature over from the prior year by mistake (e.g. the one instance in the 1964 shop manual), but the fact is Day 1, when the very first 1964 Eldorado rolled off the assembly line, it was a Fleetwood Eldorado, not an Eldorado Biarritz.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 08:49:40 AM by Jason Edge »
Jason Edge
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Offline Tpicks55

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Re: What is a Biarritz?
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2017, 08:00:20 AM »
Wow, thank all of you on clearing up that confusion.  Tony
75 Eldorado Convertable
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Offline Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

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Re: What is a Biarritz?
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2017, 09:13:30 AM »
Cadillac should have repositioned its two convertible models to coincide with the major restyle of the 1965 model year when it would have made much more sense. The move would have been all the more logical since the Series 62 line was replaced with the Calais series that year.

Alas, they did not and has lived on as another example of the quirky decisions GM sometimes made - without rhyme or reason - of which there are many throughout Cadillac history.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 09:27:03 AM by Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 »
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Offline Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

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Re: What is a Biarritz?
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2017, 10:33:41 AM »
What about all those dealers, mostly Cadillac dealers, in my attachment that advertised 1964 Eldorado Biarritz models?  They all incorrectly identified the cars back when these ads ran in 1964-65?  Is it possible that a model name change occurred during the 1964 model year i.e. there were some 1964 Eldorado Biarritzs initially?

No Biarritz in 1964. Period.

No doubt, those newspaper advertisements were written so the public readily understood the model being offered, the majority still unfamiliar with the name change.

Being that the Biarritz moniker was still relatively fresh in the public mind, it simply made more sense to eliminate confusion for the purposes of an advertising blurb - and save the explanations for later when the customer appeared at the door.

Great vintage ad assortment.

Just add a zero to the prices!

« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 06:51:54 PM by Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 »
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Offline Big Apple Caddy

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Re: What is a Biarritz?
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2017, 01:36:26 PM »
Being that the Biarritz moniker was still relatively fresh in the public mind, it simply made more sense to eliminate confusion for the purposes of an advertising blurb - and save all the explanations for later when the customer appeared at the door.

Yep, sure looks that way.  Similar tactics have been used other times too e.g., even though the 1987-92 Brougham was no longer a Fleetwood Brougham, dealers would still advertise it as such for "familiarity" sake.   Same over at Lincoln.  Even though the Town Car became its own model in 1981, it was still sometimes advertised as a Lincoln Continental Town Car.

Offline Walter Youshock

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Re: What is a Biarritz?
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2017, 06:27:51 PM »
...gee...  all that "baggage" probably HELPED sales...
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Offline D.Smith

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Re: What is a Biarritz?
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2017, 06:03:30 AM »
Cadillac should have repositioned its two convertible models to coincide with the major restyle of the 1965 model year when it would have made much more sense. The move would have been all the more logical since the Series 62 line was replaced with the Calais series that year.

 

Considering the Series 62 convertibles had deVille interiors (and equipment levels)  for many years prior to 1964,  I would have thought they should have been moved into the deVille line up years earlier! 

Offline Walter Youshock

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Re: What is a Biarritz?
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2017, 06:27:21 AM »
Agreed.  The deville was born from the 62 series convertible.
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Offline Big Apple Caddy

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Re: What is a Biarritz?
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2017, 08:14:19 AM »
...gee...  all that "baggage" probably HELPED sales...

Perhaps but this was decades ago.

Offline Walter Youshock

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Re: What is a Biarritz?
« Reply #29 on: May 13, 2017, 10:03:30 AM »
I do hope you're going to Nationals.  Can't wait to discuss Cadillac history in person!!!
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Offline Big Apple Caddy

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Re: What is a Biarritz?
« Reply #30 on: May 13, 2017, 11:05:08 AM »
I do hope you're going to Nationals.  Can't wait to discuss Cadillac history in person!!!

Cadillac's history also includes small cars with one-cylinder engines and model names like Model A, Model B, Model C, etc.  Perhaps you think they should go back to building cars like that?  It's part of Cadillacís history after all.

What worked well for a company in the past doesn't mean it continued to do so or would work as well, if at all, today.  Just ask Smith Corona, Kodak, Blockbuster Video, Borders, etc.  Whether it be due to changes in technology, tastes, preferences or something else, companies sometimes need to move away from their past if they want to have a future.

Offline Walter Youshock

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Re: What is a Biarritz?
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2017, 11:20:22 AM »
I don't, however, it seems those types of cars would be more attractive to yourself.  Also, the examples you cite were the earliest Cadillacs long before it was destined to be a luxury car...

" If the leader truly leads, he remains the leader..."

Again, I look forward to meeting you in DC!
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Offline Big Apple Caddy

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Re: What is a Biarritz?
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2017, 07:44:32 AM »
I don't, however, it seems those types of cars would be more attractive to yourself.  Also, the examples you cite were the earliest Cadillacs long before it was destined to be a luxury car...

Huh?   As I've stated before, my preferences as far as Cadillacs go are midsize and large sedans, or coupes (not crossovers or SUVs, not compacts), with names like DeVille, Fleetwood, Seville, etc but what I may prefer or be nostalgic about doesn't necessarily mean it's right or best for today's new vehicle market.  We're not in the 1990s, 80s, 70s, etc anymore.

Many companies have had wonderful histories as leading manufacturers/sellers of certain products (e.g., Kodak with photographic film) but that doesn't mean strongly sticking to that history is a wise or viable business model.   Technology, engineering, tastes, preferences, etc can change and companies need to change and adapt too.  Time doesn't stand still and companies can't afford to either.

Offline Richard Sills - CLC #936

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Re: What is a Biarritz?
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2017, 12:17:23 PM »
As Jason noted, there is a lot of confusion over the proper series designation of the non-Eldorado convertible, which was a "Series 62" in 1963 and earlier years, and a "deVille" from 1964 through 1970.  I have a theory as to why the series name of the convertible was changed in 1964. 

In 1964, Cadillac introduced Turbo-Hydramatic transmission for the deVille, the Fleetwood Sixty Special, and the Fleetwood Eldorado.  The Series 62 and the Series 75 continued to use the older version of the Hydramatic transmission, with the "P-N-D-L-R" transmission quadrant.  It would not have been appropriate for the convertible to use the older transmission, while the Coupe deVille and Sedan deVille got the new Turbo-Hydramatic.  Hence, the convertible had to be brought into the deVille series.  (This is just a guess on my part, but it makes sense.)

During all the years when Cadillac offered both a deVille and a Series 62 or Calais, I am not aware of any other instance when the two series used different mechanical components.
 

Offline Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621

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Re: What is a Biarritz?
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2017, 12:34:18 PM »
Curiously, the 1965 Series 75 received the new Turbo Hydramatic transmission even though it was a carryover 1964 body.
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Offline John Madan

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Re: What is a Biarritz?
« Reply #35 on: June 18, 2017, 10:52:27 AM »
I ts an Eldorado trim package most convertible s don't have it
2 almost perfect 1984 Seville s 1 is rare touring edition with every available option 1980 Classic Seville diesel that is being restored 1981 and 1982 Seville Roadster 1982 is beyond perfect 1985 base Seville 1978 Eldorado beyond perfect. I have done almost every procedure in the GM shop manual on the Seville if anyone has any questions please feel free to contact me

Offline dochawk

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Re: What is a Biarritz?
« Reply #36 on: June 19, 2017, 11:00:35 AM »
"Biarritz" customizations also seem to have been popular on the 90s Eldorado after Cadillac stopped shipping.

My '97 Eldorado ETC was sent pre-delivery to pick up a half-top, extra upper chrome, wheel chrome, chrome grill with vertical bars, and pedestrian site (err, hood ornament).

It was ordered by the sales manager for one of the local dealerships.  It then went in monthly for maintenance per its carfax.   Oddly, he didn't order the sunroof. (*sniff*).

I've seen many others done with different levels of quality, such as a '98 with window ports that don't line up with the rear windows . . .
1972 Eldorado convertible, 2001 Deville DHS (daughter), 1997 Eldorado ETC (and now my wife wants an Eldorado!)