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LaSalle 37 Stop Light switch question

Started by frank37, May 25, 2017, 04:11:41 PM

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frank37

My 37 LaSalle has the original brake light switch and master cylinder.  I know the stop light switch is of a hydro-electrical type. The car stops well but I find it takes a lot of pressure to light the brake lights unlike todays cars that have purely electrical switches that light as soon as the pedal is lightly touched. Is the- what I would call " "moderate pressure " needed to bring the lights on normal for these older systems OR may there be some restriction at the master cylinder that makes it necessary to use this moderate pressure?
I find this is a traffic hazard  since not having the brake lights come on as soon as the pedal is pressed does not give unaware drivers behind the now common instant brake warning they are used to.
   I seem to recall hearing that there were stop light switches that were more sensitive to the hydraulic pressure. If that's true does anyone know a part # for such a switch
  And finally has anyone ever adapted a modern electrical switch somewhere along the pedal so there can be an instantaneous brake light come on??? I'm a purest but I would sacrifice a little originality to avoid getting rear-ended !!! Thanks---  frank pezzimenti  ft myers florida

Steve Passmore

Interested to know a solution myself as all my cars require considerable pressure to activate the stop lights.
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

P W Allen CLC# 20193

I can't speak for other years, but the 53's have a lever type brake light switch that's tripped by the brake peddle. No hydraulics involved. I'll bet it can be made to work on your LaSalle.
Paul
53 Coupe
Twin Turbine

35-709

Quote from: frank37 on May 25, 2017, 04:11:41 PM
My 37 LaSalle has the original brake light switch and master cylinder.  I know the stop light switch is of a hydro-electrical type. The car stops well but I find it takes a lot of pressure to light the brake lights unlike todays cars that have purely electrical switches that light as soon as the pedal is lightly touched. Is the- what I would call " "moderate pressure " needed to bring the lights on normal for these older systems OR may there be some restriction at the master cylinder that makes it necessary to use this moderate pressure?
I find this is a traffic hazard  since not having the brake lights come on as soon as the pedal is pressed does not give unaware drivers behind the now common instant brake warning they are used to.
   I seem to recall hearing that there were stop light switches that were more sensitive to the hydraulic pressure. If that's true does anyone know a part # for such a switch
  And finally has anyone ever adapted a modern electrical switch somewhere along the pedal so there can be an instantaneous brake light come on??? I'm a purest but I would sacrifice a little originality to avoid getting rear-ended !!! Thanks---  frank pezzimenti  ft myers florida

This is very typical of the old "hydro-electric" type brake switches, the older they get the more pedal pressure it takes to make them work.  Here is a link to one from Ron Francis Wiring that is a low pressure switch, description sounds like it is far superior to the old type.  https://www.ronfrancis.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SW%2D32

Here is another link to a waterproof switch that I adapted to my '35 Cadillac. 
https://www.ronfrancis.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SW%2D42

Ron Francis' stuff is first rate.

1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Bill Ingler #7799

#4
As was previously posted, the longer that brake switch has been in the car, the more brake pedal pressure is need to activate the switch. I have found that once you notice it is taking more pressure than needed to lite the tail lights, it is time for a new switch or try to bring the old switch back to life. Years ago an old mechanic said, don`t throw that old brake switch away but drop it into some paint thinner and let it soak for about 30 minutes. I have had some success with this procedure but I still prefer using a new switch.  If you need a new switch try to buy any other brand switch than one that is made in Mexico. Yes they work for awhile but you don`t get the same service as you do from say a Cole Boston, R A Smith or Delco.  These NOS old switches are, like a lot of the parts for our old Cadillacs, hard to find so buy when you see one for sale.   Bill

Bob Schuman

Frank,
The hydraulic pressure stoplight switch was used by Cadillac through 1950, going in 1951 to a switch operated mechanically by the brake pedal arm.

What you are experiencing is common with currently available hydraulic switches-a new switch operates with little pedal pressure, and it requires increasing pedal pressure over maybe a 2 or 3 year period until it won't work the stoplights at all. New switches are easily available at NAPA and some other auto parts stores, as they were used on Fords through 1964. Replacing the switch is simply unscrewing the old switch and screwing in the new one, with no need to bleed the brakes. Then you are set for a couple of years.

From my considerable investigation of this problem, here is what I have learned:
       The failure mode is burning of the electrical contacts in the switch that occurs when the brakes are released and the switch contacts arc as
        they separate. The arcing burns the contacts, creating increasing resistance.
        Currently available switches are inferior to the older switches used years ago, which is why they fail so soon. I have cut open and inspected
        several, and the internal construction of the older switches was better.
        Some persons claim that DOT 5 silicone brake fluid causes the switch to deteriorate. From my inspections I believe that is not true.

My recommendations, in order of preference are:
       Install a new hydraulic pressure switch, and replace the stoplight bulbs with LED bulbs that are exact replacements, but draw MUCH less
       current, thereby greatly reducing the arcing in the switch contacts and greatly extending its life. The LED bulbs in my 6 volt 1941 Cadillac
       are #1154 combination stop/taillight bulbs, brighter than the stock bulbs, and I found them on Ebay a few months ago. Your LaSalle
       probably uses the same bulbs.

       Another option is to install a switch operated by the pedal arm, that does not seem to have the early failure problem.

       If you want to stay with the hydraulic switch and stock bulbs, there is another fix. Some years ago I designed the use of a relay in the
       circuit, so that the switch sees only a small current to operate the relay, and the relay completes the circuit to the stoplights. When I did that
       there were no LED bulbs as there are today.

       



Bob Schuman, CLC#254
2017 CT6-unsatisfactory (repurchased by GM)
2023 XT5

Steve Passmore

I have taken the advice on this thread Frank and fitted 3 stop switches straight of the shelf to three of my cars and they all work just fine with the slightest of pressure. Easy fix and just a few bucks.
Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

Jay Friedman

Bob,

I looked on ebay and can't seem to find the bulbs you mention.  Got any tips?

Jay
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

Bob Schuman

Jay,
The person I bought the LED #1154 bulbs from is:
    Bruce Falk
    1105 Nicholson
    Joliet, Illinois 60435

I do not have his phone number, and a quick
Google search did not lead me to him. I bought four bulbs in February 2017, two red and two clear, for a total price of $50.
He recommended the clear because he thought the red ones look orange from behind the taillight lens. In my 41, with glass taillight lenses, I used one of each(it uses an 1154 for stop/taillight and another 1154 for turn signal) and they all look red to me. With your plastic lenses the LED's may look different-you are on your own for that.

When using LED bulbs for the combination stop/taillight function, leave the standard bulbs in the front lights, and the turn signals should work okay. The standard flasher needs the electrical load of the standard bulb to make it work. If with that combination does not give proper flashing, I have heard of an electronic plug-in flasher that will work the turn signals, but have no knowledge of who sells such flashers.
Bob Schuman
Bob Schuman, CLC#254
2017 CT6-unsatisfactory (repurchased by GM)
2023 XT5

35-709

Any place that sells the regular flashers will sell the electronic flashers.  Bought my last electronic at Advance Auto Parts.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Bob Schuman

Jay,
The phone number for Bruce Falk is 815-726-6455. A little more time on Ebay gave me his number. His posting for a 6 volt electronic flasher said he is away until May 31, 2017 and not taking orders until then.
Bob
Bob Schuman, CLC#254
2017 CT6-unsatisfactory (repurchased by GM)
2023 XT5

Steve Passmore

Steve

Present
1937 60 convertible coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe
1941 62 coupe

Previous
1936 70 Sport coupe
1937 85 series V12 sedan
1938 60 coupe
1938 50 coupe
1939 60S
1940 62 coupe
1941 62 convertible coupe x2
1941 61 coupe
1941 61 sedan x2
1941 62 sedan x2
1947 62 sedan
1959 62 coupe

John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.

Folks,

Not sure how many years ago the post and thread was started but the gist of the matter was that Harley Davidson made these new for there older bikes.

I purchased on for my 37 LaSalle and have had no problems since.

If there is interest I can, hopefully, find the part number and such.

Disclaimer: Once you start down the slippery slope of modification you may not be able to stop.

The Johnny
John Washburn
CLC #1067
1937 LaSalle Coupe
1938 6519F Series Imperial Sedan
1949 62 Series 4 Door
1949 60 Special Fleetwood
1953 Coupe DeVille
1956 Coupe DeVille
1992 Eldorado Touring Coupe America Cup Series

frank37

As a postscript to my initial inquiry on the brake light switch.  First many thanks to all who shared their wisdom and advice--it is invaluable.  Second The solution I took was to  call NAPA who had them available  on the shelf, installed it and the lights come on early and bright.  I also installed LED bulbs so those tailgaiters have something bright to alert them to my car's stopping.  Happy motoring to all...FPezzimenti