Author Topic: No fuel on a '72 after other work  (Read 711 times)

Offline V63

  • Posts: 179
  • Name: W Link
Re: No fuel on a '72 after other work
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2017, 09:54:10 AM »
A mouth full of gasoline (seriously) can be hazardous...even fatal. I commonly use what I would describe as a ketchup 'squeeze' bottle with the pointy cone top for starting a siphon for example.

If you have a compressor, remove the fuel cap and insert your blow nozzle into the  2" fuel inlet where you pump your gas into. Wrap and tightly SEAL the opening and the blow nozzle together with a damp rag and 'pressurize' the tank. This will force the fuel to the engine. Initially, You can fashion a cup or catch at the engine, fuel supply line to view your success as it's hard to be in two places.

In the southwest we have 'sweat' bees, 🐝 that look like bees but hover more like a humming bird. FYI: They do not sting you. They build cocoons in ANY small (pencil size) open hole. I've had brand new fuel line just hanging around or laying in the shop...it will often be completely plugged with a cocoon, and quite an effort is required to dislodge it. It's very easy to install a new piece of fuel hose and NOT realize it's plugged by these critters. An open fuel line (or vacuum line ) on your car, whilst the tank is out ect, is also inviting these critters. 🐝🐛
« Last Edit: June 11, 2017, 10:01:46 AM by V63 »

Offline TJ Hopland

  • Posts: 6487
Re: No fuel on a '72 after other work
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2017, 11:38:00 AM »
Primer bulb like you used to see on outboard motors?
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
75 Eldo rusty but trusty
80 Eldo Diesel
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Offline The Tassie Devil(le)

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 6948
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #18992
  • Name: Bruce Reynolds
Re: No fuel on a '72 after other work
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2017, 07:47:17 PM »
Isn't that likely to give me a mouthful of gasoline? 
I insert a length of clear plastic hose before sucking so that I can see when to stop sucking.
Quote
I slowly turned it up from off until it engaged, and then a bit more.  Probably 15-20 psi.
That is a fair amount of pressure, and may be sufficient to blow past any obstructions.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'55 Buick Special Post Coupe (LHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing RHH
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Offline Glen

  • Posts: 2148
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #727
  • Name: Glen Houlton
Re: No fuel on a '72 after other work
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2017, 01:36:56 AM »
If you have a compressor, remove the fuel cap and insert your blow nozzle into the  2" fuel inlet where you pump your gas into. Wrap and tightly SEAL the opening and the blow nozzle together with a damp rag and 'pressurize' the tank. This will force the fuel to the engine. Initially, You can fashion a cup or catch at the engine, fuel supply line to view your success as it's hard to be in two places.

If the car has a fuel return line the pressure will bypass the pump and the gas won’t flow.  Ask me how I know. 
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

Offline V63

  • Posts: 179
  • Name: W Link
Re: No fuel on a '72 after other work
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2017, 04:44:39 AM »
If the car has a fuel return line the pressure will bypass the pump and the gas won’t flow.  Ask me how I know. 

You are correct, if you don't accumulate enough air pressure, volume and duration.

It's never failed me...in fact it's located system leaks before. If the return remains a concern...simply clamp the return hose with vice grips.

There is one situation to be mindful of...and that's if the fuel pump (mechanical) diaphragm is compromised to allow fuel to flow into crankcase. There is a weep hole in the side of the fuel pump designed to leak to notify diaphragm is leaking.

In stubborn cases it's a good method to loosen the fuel pump inlet to verify fuel is getting there. Then move loosened line to pump discharge, followed by filter inlet...and finally at carbie.
Don't forget there can be a filter (restriction) just inside the carb casting (Rochester)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2017, 05:02:17 AM by V63 »

Offline dochawk

  • Posts: 311
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #29642
  • Name: Richard Hawkins
Re: No fuel on a '72 after other work
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2017, 01:17:37 PM »
My thinking at the moment is to disconnect  the fuel line *into* the pump, set it to drain into a glass dish, and then pressurize the tank.

But from other comments, should I be disconnecting and capping the return line, too? 

Would not doing so allow too much pressure on the pump diaphragm?

And it has occurred to me that after leaving the tank entirely off for some months and remounting, I did not have this problem.  Wouldn't the gas line have dried out when I did that?

hawk
1972 Eldorado convertible, 2001 Deville DHS (daughter), 1997 Eldorado ETC (and now my wife wants an Eldorado!)

Offline V63

  • Posts: 179
  • Name: W Link
Re: No fuel on a '72 after other work
« Reply #26 on: June 12, 2017, 03:57:21 PM »
I would disconnect the inlet line at the pump...and just try and get some fuel to there. ..If no luck then you might need pinch off the return. I'm assuming you have a respectable shop compressor? The weaker your compressor is the more positive of a seal required at the filler. You Could jack up the back of the car too. Be prepared it could start siphoning...have another vise grip to pinch the supply line until you can connect it.

Offline dochawk

  • Posts: 311
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #29642
  • Name: Richard Hawkins
Re: No fuel on a '72 after other work
« Reply #27 on: June 12, 2017, 04:35:49 PM »
I have both an eight gallon and two gallon compressor at hand :)
1972 Eldorado convertible, 2001 Deville DHS (daughter), 1997 Eldorado ETC (and now my wife wants an Eldorado!)

Offline dochawk

  • Posts: 311
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #29642
  • Name: Richard Hawkins
Re: No fuel on a '72 after other work
« Reply #28 on: June 14, 2017, 07:38:09 PM »
A thought, a variant on pressurizing the tank using a rag as a simple seal:

What about using a shop vac to apply suction to the fuel line at the pump end?  Will it generate enough suction?

hawk
1972 Eldorado convertible, 2001 Deville DHS (daughter), 1997 Eldorado ETC (and now my wife wants an Eldorado!)

Offline The Tassie Devil(le)

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 6948
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #18992
  • Name: Bruce Reynolds
Re: No fuel on a '72 after other work
« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2017, 07:46:33 PM »
Pressurising the fuel tank won't really work as the air inside will get out through the ventilation pipes, and the Charcoal canister.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'55 Buick Special Post Coupe (LHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing RHH
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Offline fishnjim

  • Posts: 291
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #29423
  • Name: J. Bozin
Re: No fuel on a '72 after other work
« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2017, 08:33:54 PM »
Safety first.   Don't blow air into the fuel tank or pressurize.   You can atomize a large amount of fuel and get a nasty flash fire.     
Sounded like what you verified, the hard line is plugged.   If the tank contents were bad, the line can not be any better.   I'd replace the line because there's no way to tell what shape the inside is after you unblock it, but that's just my good practice.   Start clean and then you don't have to filter out anything.
ps:
I'd check the brake lines and brake fluid, as well.   If fluid is yellow or cloudy, it needs changed and system flushed.

Offline Glen

  • Posts: 2148
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #727
  • Name: Glen Houlton
Re: No fuel on a '72 after other work
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2017, 12:32:42 AM »
A thought, a variant on pressurizing the tank using a rag as a simple seal:

What about using a shop vac to apply suction to the fuel line at the pump end?  Will it generate enough suction?

hawk

No no no.  The fumes from the gas can get ignited by the motor brushes.   I think most shop vacs have warnings about not vacuuming up flammables. 
Glen Houlton CLC #727 
CLCMRC benefactor #104

Offline dochawk

  • Posts: 311
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #29642
  • Name: Richard Hawkins
Re: No fuel on a '72 after other work
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2017, 05:43:52 PM »
No no no.  The fumes from the gas can get ignited by the motor brushes.   I think most shop vacs have warnings about not vacuuming up flammables.


 :o

OK,none of *that*!

I've found $4 pump at Harbor Freight.  They also have the one mentioned on the first page for $40.

They also have https://www.harborfreight.com/air-vacuum-pump-with-r134a-and-r12-connectors-96677.html, which uses compressed gas to drive a vacuum.  Supposedly forR12 and R134, for which it has connectors--but there's no apparent "out"; it may just be venting the vacuum (so how could it possibly be appropriate for coolant???)
1972 Eldorado convertible, 2001 Deville DHS (daughter), 1997 Eldorado ETC (and now my wife wants an Eldorado!)

Offline Dan LeBlanc

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 3406
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #27657
  • Name: Dan LeBlanc
Re: No fuel on a '72 after other work
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2017, 08:42:02 PM »
You need a VERY large compressor to operate one of those pumps as they require a huge volume of air. Even then, they don't work that well.
Dan LeBlanc - CLC # 27657
1970 DeVille Convertible
1953 Series 62 Sedan (Parts Car)
1953 Fleetwood (Project Car)
2004 Deville

Offline dochawk

  • Posts: 311
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #29642
  • Name: Richard Hawkins
Re: No fuel on a '72 after other work
« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2017, 06:21:40 PM »
My larger compressor is specced for it, but the notion that gas would simply ooze out of the plastic container was a deal-breaker.

I'm going with the $4 pump--at that price, I don't care if the gasoline ruins it, and it will get the flow going into a glass collection bowl for me.
1972 Eldorado convertible, 2001 Deville DHS (daughter), 1997 Eldorado ETC (and now my wife wants an Eldorado!)

Offline TJ Hopland

  • Posts: 6487
Re: No fuel on a '72 after other work
« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2017, 07:53:00 AM »
If your goal is to collect the fluid you are sucking something like this already does that.   Its not $4 but would save you the time piecing together a container and all the lines.

https://www.harborfreight.com/brake-fluid-bleeder-92924.html
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
75 Eldo rusty but trusty
80 Eldo Diesel
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Offline dochawk

  • Posts: 311
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #29642
  • Name: Richard Hawkins
Re: No fuel on a '72 after other work
« Reply #36 on: June 19, 2017, 10:45:45 AM »
I'm not trying to collect it; just to fill the fuel line since the pump isn't succeeding while sucking on air.

Once any comes out, I think I'm done.

Gosh, I sure hope I don't need to drain the tank to drop it again . . .
1972 Eldorado convertible, 2001 Deville DHS (daughter), 1997 Eldorado ETC (and now my wife wants an Eldorado!)

Offline Jeff Rose CLC #28373

  • Posts: 1181
  • Name: Jeff Rose
Re: No fuel on a '72 after other work
« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2017, 03:22:49 PM »
The 55 we just bought has a lot if crap in the tank. I fact I just removed the tank last nite. To get it running  before we bought it, we just hooked a fuel line into a bottle of gas. The pump did it's thing and it ran.
An earlier post suggested there may be a blockage at the carb, etc. Hooking a line up as I described would take 5 minutes. It would verify the pump and the line to the carb.
Jeff
Jeff
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille
1955 Series 62

Offline dochawk

  • Posts: 311
    • CLC Member
      CLC Member #29642
  • Name: Richard Hawkins
Re: No fuel on a '72 after other work
« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2017, 06:57:58 PM »
The 55 we just bought has a lot if crap in the tank. I fact I just removed the tank last nite.

For my '72, the shop manual calls for cleaning out with hot water.

*AFTER* i wrestled it to the bathtub, I learned about the drain on the water heater that fits a hose . . .

Quote
To get it running  before we bought it, we just hooked a fuel line into a bottle of gas. The pump did it's thing and it ran.
An earlier post suggested there may be a blockage at the carb, etc. Hooking a line up as I described would take 5 minutes. It would verify the pump and the line to the carb.

I posted the video above--the pump *definitely* draws and pumps; my issue is before the pump--and likely, a dry fuel line.
1972 Eldorado convertible, 2001 Deville DHS (daughter), 1997 Eldorado ETC (and now my wife wants an Eldorado!)