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Replacing Rear Main Bearing Oil Seal In A 331

Started by Jay Friedman, May 28, 2017, 05:51:00 PM

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Jay Friedman

Would like to report that yesterday, Saturday 5/27, Art Gardner and I (with me mostly holding the tools and lights as well as providing a 3rd hand) replaced a leaking rope-type rear main bearing seal with a modern neoprene seal on his ’51 Cadillac.  We were pleased that we accomplished the task in 4½-5 hours and that the job was a success.  The task was made easier because we had the use of a lift in a commercial garage and, no doubt, because we had both done the job before. 

As was written in previous threads on this subject, there was no need to touch the transmission, but much time was spent removing and replacing the starter, the exhaust cross-over pipe, the lower flywheel housing, the oil pan and its gaskets (including cleaning out and re-painting the pan).  Finally removing and replacing the oil pump, the rear main bearing cap and the seal itself were the least time-consuming operations. 

Because 1952 and later Cadillacs with 331 or 365 motors have dual exhausts and thus no cross-over pipe under the motor, the job may be done in a bit less time on those cars.  Replacing the cross-over pipe with its flange, the heat riser, 2 gaskets between them, a gasket on the other side and 2 nuts holding them to manifold studs on each side is tricky, and would even be more so working alone.  And be sure to replace the cross over pipe in the same orientation side to side as when removed.  Although it looks symmetrical, it is slightly different on each side and would not line up correctly if installed backwards.

We were able to remove the old rope seal from the block by pulling on a wood screw that was screwed into one side of the seal while pushing on the other side.  We did not have to loosen any of the other main bearing cap bolts as is sometimes necessary.  (We did check the torque on all the main bearing bolts and rod bearing nuts, but they were in spec.) 

This job can be very messy, with engine oil contained in the oil pump, rear main bearing cap and elsewhere in the motor likely to drip out all over your floor if it is left unprotected, so we advise placing flat pans or other means of catching the oil under the motor before removing the oil pan.
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

Jay Friedman

Ah, Art, the opportunity to feast my eyes on that gorgeous '49 sedan of yours once more would make it all worthwhile.  As they say, it's a filthy job but someone has gotta do it.
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

gary griffin

#2
I have a tool for that called a "Sneaky Pete" and I think they are still available. It has a small cable with a handle on one end and a special clamp on the other end. You push the empty clamp through the cable raceway and then clamp the end of the new seal and pull on the handle pulling the seal through, then trimming the excess from the end of the seal.  I think its cost was about $2 when I purchased it many years ago! They are about $12 now and include a corkscrew device to get the old seal out. Easy to do in the car and I always loosen the bolts and let the crankshaft settle down a little bit to make it easier although some do not do this part. Oiling the seal also helps. Hardest part of the project is to get the pan off.
Gary Griffin

1940 LaSalle 5029 4 door convertible sedan
1942 Cadillac 6719 restoration almost complete?
1957 Cadillac 60-special (Needs a little TLC)
2013 Cadillac XTS daily driver

Dan LeBlanc

Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Jay Friedman

Dan,

When I was young, that tool was called a "monkey's finger" for some reason. 

Yes, dealing with the pan is not easy.  It comes off easily enough, but getting it back on is harder what with cleaning it out, whacking the gasket surface with a body hammer to make sure it is level, painting it in this case, fitting the gaskets / cork seals and finally lifting it up into place and tightening the bolts and nuts.  The last part is definitely a 2-person job. 

We thought we'd first try to pull out the old rope seal as I described without loosening the main bearing cap bolts, and if that didn't work we'd loosen the bolts.  To our pleasant surprise, the seal came out the after messing with it a bit (which may explain why it had been leaking).   
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

gary griffin


Jay,  I have had mine since about 1965 as I recall?  An old timer told me I needed one and I still have it (If I can find it?)  I found out today's value on eBay and google. Only used about 3 or 4 times as I recall. I took auto shop in High School but the instructor had a much more complicated way to do just about all jobs as I found out through the years.
Gary Griffin

1940 LaSalle 5029 4 door convertible sedan
1942 Cadillac 6719 restoration almost complete?
1957 Cadillac 60-special (Needs a little TLC)
2013 Cadillac XTS daily driver

Jay Friedman

Gary, I've known about that tool, of course, but the few times I've done the job I've used simple methods usually involving loosening the main bearing cap bolts a bit.  Hopefully, with the new Neoprene seals available for our engines this job will become much less frequently needed.
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

jdemerson

Quote from: Jay Friedman on May 28, 2017, 05:51:00 PM
Would like to report that yesterday, Saturday 5/27, Art Gardner and I (with me mostly holding the tools and lights as well as providing a 3rd hand) replaced a leaking rope-type rear main bearing seal with a modern neoprene seal on his ’51 Cadillac.  We were pleased that we accomplished the task in 4½-5 hours and that the job was a success.  The task was made easier because we had the use of a lift in a commercial garage and, no doubt, because we had both done the job before. 


Jay and Art,

      I had my 1952 6219X done last fall at a very competent garage.  I gave them the detailed directions that you wrote a while back and they did make good use of them. The labor charge for the job (including cleaning an oil pan that may never have come off the car) was for 9 hours. The mileage on the car was around 65,600. The work was done by seasoned mechanics who work mostly on high end and old imported cars. I am quite sure that this job was a new one for them.
       So thank you for your good service in posting a very clear and highly detailed description of the procedure.

John Emerson
Middlebury, VT
1952 Cadillac 6219X

PS  I drove the Grand Marshal in the Memorial Day parade this morning. The Cadillac is always a hit with the locals, and is the basis for many interesting and friendly chats!
John Emerson
Middlebury, Vermont
CLC member #26790
1952 Series 6219X
http://bit.ly/21AGnvn

Caddy Wizard

John,


I think 9 hours (and about $800 plus parts/materials) is about right for that job.  We were lucky and efficient.  It doesn't always go so swimmingly...

Art
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under resto -- has been in paint shop since June 2022!)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1958 Eldo Seville (2/3 done)

Jay Friedman

Years ago I did it with my '49 on jack stands and me on my back.  It took several evenings and more hours than I can remember.  Hardest part was getting the oil pan and then the cross-over pipe back on without a 3rd hand. 

PS  Cadillac calls what everyone calls a cross-over pipe, a "cross-under manifold".  I guess they are technically correct, but this must cause lots of head-scratching among those not in the know.
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."