Author Topic: 73 eldorado,,, new very loud noise  (Read 678 times)

Offline kkkaiser

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73 eldorado,,, new very loud noise
« on: June 08, 2017, 05:07:31 PM »
Week after getting car back from transmission repair to seals and leaks,, this awful screeching noise has come up, it was just a flutter,, then, right when i pulled in today to park,, it began this loud screech,,,,any idea...???

i cant get it to download to site, so if you dont mind, please click this link to my website,, you will see from the awful noise, i am not promoting the site

the site is https://www.gardineryellowstonelodging.net    video is right in the middle of the page,, its about 5 seconds.. i will leave it up for just a couple days as it is a working site,,, but have it there for ease of access of you guys, 

this is getting depressing,,!!!! :-[ :-[ :-[

Offline 35-709

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Re: 73 eldorado,,, new very loud noise
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2017, 06:06:30 PM »
Did you open the hood and look?  The cause of a loud squealing noise should be easy to spot --- sounds like it could be a "fan" belt.  The Air Injection pumps (aka smog pump, A.I.R. pump) are known to seize up when their bearings go bad and will make the belt driving it squeal mightily.  For me, your link goes to your site but does not take me to a video of the noise.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 06:12:27 PM by 35-709 »
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod

Offline kkkaiser

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Re: 73 eldorado,,, new very loud noise
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2017, 06:47:49 PM »
Hi,, well, to be honest, the noise was so loud and sounded like giant nails on a chalkboard,, i turned it off out of fear of something going seriously wrong,  thanks for taking time to give it a look..

secondly,, you have to give the site a second to load up that video,,it says My Channel,, and has he play triangle on it,,,

third,,,there is a guy in the RV park here where i live.. he used to have a shop,, has a 49 something or other,, explained to him what i heard, said it sounded like belts, as you suggested,,,, he said i should squirt water on the belts and pulleys and give it a go,, i did,, and it went completely quiet for about 10 seconds, then the screeching came back in full.

so,, if you anyone does get to the video and hears it,, and from the above concurs that its probably the belt or belts,, should i then proceed to find the bad one, or just pull them all, or is that overkill,,,i have replaced the serpentine belt on my 2500HD truck, and the pulley with bad bearings, so i know that his can me in my realm of self repairs...but this has some 4 or so belts,,,and the friend told me they can be a pain to loosen on the old cars..

given all the above,, and the knowledge base, here,, any pitfalls for this operation,,,

Offline The Tassie Devil(le)

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Re: 73 eldorado,,, new very loud noise
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2017, 07:07:03 PM »
Man, that is sickening.

I would be opening the hood, and feeling the tension on each belt, and then remove them all, and replace one at a time, and see which one makes the noise.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
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Offline bcroe

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73 eldorado,,, new very loud noise
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2017, 07:50:11 PM »
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le)

I would be opening the hood, and feeling the tension on each belt, and then remove them all, and replace one at a time, and see which one makes the noise.   Bruce.   

Better follow those instructions.  The fault may something binding up, so with the
belts off, check for things that don't want to turn.  Bruce Roe

Offline kkkaiser

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Re: 73 eldorado,,, new very loud noise
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2017, 07:51:20 PM »
well,,i tried to get a start on things here,,,the belts all feel basically the same to me..so i squired water on the alternator belt, and pulley,  when started, the noise started up immmedeiatily,,

so i squirted some on the belt that runs to the ac compressor,  and it didn't sound near as bad at startup,, so i left it long enough to go look and the belt seemed to be slipping,  like not turning the whole time, just well, slipping, so i squirted it down down real good, on all the pulleys that are affected by this belt and cranked it up again, and it was quiet until i guess the effects of the water wore off and it starting screeching again,  so i guess i am going to get a belt for that pulley system and hope,,, i am guessing the FSM will guide me through

Offline The Tassie Devil(le)

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Re: 73 eldorado,,, new very loud noise
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2017, 07:55:46 PM »
It is very important with belts to make sure that the belts are rubbing on the sides of the "V" of the pulleys, and not the central flat.

If they are not the correct profile, especially too narrow, they will always make noises as they slip.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
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Offline kkkaiser

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Re: 73 eldorado,,, new very loud noise
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2017, 08:02:28 PM »
will they be likely to be found at napa or any of the part stores, or will i need to order from a specialty house?


Offline 35-709

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Re: 73 eldorado,,, new very loud noise
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2017, 08:10:51 PM »
It is not a bad belt, IMO, although the belt is probably bad now.  You have a pulley that is not turning, my bet is still the A.I.R. pump pulley.  The belt that drives the A.I.R. is the same belt that drives the water pump.  Logically (to me) that belt should be able to be removed without affecting your ability to at least drive a car with a seized A.I.R. pump home or to a repair shop.  But you cannot, removing that belt takes the water pump out also so you are going to overheat.  There are those who know the proper belt size and force a smaller belt on just between the crank pulley and the water pump to be able to drive the car --- not something, I imagine, you are prepared to do.
Look to see what pulley is not turning when the engine is running and that is your problem.

The belts should be readily available at NAPA or many other parts stores --- but again, that is not your immediate problem, IMO. 
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod

Offline 35-709

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Re: 73 eldorado,,, new very loud noise
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2017, 08:21:00 PM »
OK, I got the video.  More certain than ever that something is seized making a belt squeal.  Could be anything belt driven up there that has seized because of a failure but the most common is --- once again --- the A.I.R. pump.  AC compressors have been known to seize, as have alternators due to bad bearings or even the water pump if a circulation vane breaks loose and jams it up but those failures are much more rare.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod

Offline kkkaiser

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Re: 73 eldorado,,, new very loud noise
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2017, 08:35:39 PM »
From what i am gathering, I should be pulling off the belts, one at a time,, then turning the associated pulleys, and seeing if they move freely,, if for instance, it is the AIR pump,, would the pulleys be available through napa or again, through the specialty shops,,,
 or any of the other pulleys that may be affected,, or would the entire pump need to be replaced if it is indeed this pump. 


« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 08:44:22 PM by kkkaiser »

Offline The Tassie Devil(le)

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Re: 73 eldorado,,, new very loud noise
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2017, 08:45:30 PM »
Actually, pulling the belts off and running the engine for a very short time, as in a few seconds should do, seeing as the noise is so bad.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
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Offline 35-709

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Re: 73 eldorado,,, new very loud noise
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2017, 08:01:25 AM »
You don't need to replace the pulley, you need to replace the engine accessory part that has gone bad --- keep the pulley to put on the replacement part.  If it is the A.I.R. pump, you need to get a rebuilt one at your local parts store.  Same if it is the alternator, AC compressor or whatever it is that has seized.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod

Offline kkkaiser

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Re: 73 eldorado,,, new very loud noise
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2017, 06:10:15 PM »
ok,  i dug into it today,, decided to start at the top and work down,  one, it seemed easier, two,, because i had luck with water on the compressor belt to compressor belt.. it would stop screeching all long as i kept water on it,,      well, i got the belt undone, and was checking for pulley freedom,, the power steering pump pulley moved freely.  i turned the clutch plate on the compressor and it turned freely, but the big piece that the belt goes over on the compressor seems very very stiff... it has about an inch of back and forth of mobility,  plus, it gets very hot in about a 15 second run of the engine.   

SOOOO,, should this pulley be turning freely and should it be getting that hot that fast,,,would this indicate the culprit...?  if so, I'm guessing the compressor needs to be replaced?

Offline 35-709

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Re: 73 eldorado,,, new very loud noise
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2017, 06:11:54 PM »
Sounds like a good candidate but check all of the belt driven accessories to be sure.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod

Offline The Tassie Devil(le)

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Re: 73 eldorado,,, new very loud noise
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2017, 07:23:34 PM »
There is no need to replace the compressor, just the hub bearing.

This is a double row bearing, and with the correct tool, it is simple to replace, and no need to remove the compressor, or lose any gas.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Offline kkkaiser

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Re: 73 eldorado,,, new very loud noise
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2017, 08:11:36 PM »
attached is picture of compressor,

if you dont have to replace the compressor, please share with me the tool and process. and were this other bearing can be found.

I pulled the other parts and checked pulleys and everything seems to be working smoothly, except as the picture indicates.

However, i did some reading on this,, and it seems this is way more involved,  Would this be the case in the repair of the bearing only,, were the condenser would have to be replaced due to metal from the compressor. lines blown out from metal splinters,  recharge etc.

If it does need replacement,, all the above items of concern are still there and would they also be replaced as well.  I ran a search on 73 eldorado in the archives and no mention of compressor problem, so i guess this doesnt come up much,,,,

Offline bcroe

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73 eldorado,,, new very loud noise
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2017, 08:30:53 PM »
If the compressor pulley spins freely, the clutch is probably OK; if not there is
freewheeling bearing that can be replaced after the clutch is removed from
the compressor (using the correct tools).  I have had to replace a few, seems
the R4 and A6 use the same bearing. 

If the clutch freewheels OK, unplug the 2 prong connector from the clutch and
put it all back.  Should be no squeal UNTIL the clutch is plugged back in.  If so
your compressor is going to need a rebuild & recharge.  Bruce Roe

Offline kkkaiser

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Re: 73 eldorado,,, new very loud noise
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2017, 09:16:22 PM »
the clutch moves freely,    the pulley moves one inch, back and forth,

what tools are you referring to that would be required,, can they be purchased online, or at an auto part sop,  is there a video to show how this is done on you tube,,,? 

AND,, if it turn s out it is the compressor that needs replacing,, if i unplug from the two prongs, re hook up the belts,,can i then drive it to the shop,,or is it a dead stick and need to be towed.


Again, i apologize for what may seem simple questions,, you guys have been doing this since the 70s,,, i am 57 and just started, so cain in there with me,

>>>>>follow up from abovevvvvok,,, i did some googling and research,   i found this video,,, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFC5jMhUm4s    seemed very informative,, would the tools ( snap ring puller and a pulley remover be the tools you are referring too???)    it didn't look complicated at all,,,  is it  a good video IYO,,
« Last Edit: June 09, 2017, 09:33:29 PM by kkkaiser »

Offline The Tassie Devil(le)

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Re: 73 eldorado,,, new very loud noise
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2017, 09:49:59 PM »
Here is the puller that I made to remove the Clutch.   It replicates the Factory GM one as shown in the Shop Manuals.

I shoved an old bolt in the lathe and trimmed it down to size, and drilled out the centre and threaded it to accept a smaller bolt to act as an internal press.

Once the clutch is off, then the pulley can be pulled off with a puller, after removing the C Clip, and the bearing pressed off, with the new one going back on, and then pushing the new bearing/hub onto the Compressor, then replacing the Clutch.   Job done.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
(Past President Modified Chapter)

 

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