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New to me 55- have a lot of questions

Started by Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373, June 13, 2017, 12:27:23 PM

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Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

Greetings
We just got a 55. And folks, I have a lot of questions. I figured I would put what I have so far into this one thread to avoid a bunch of little ones.
I am somewhat familiar with late 60's and early 70's systems, but nothing this old.
Here is what we have. It is a 55 that had been in storage for about 20 years. It does not appear to have been butchered, however I admit I am not sure of what I am looking at. We climbed under it and stabbed the floors and frame with a screwdriver and all seems solid. Interior is surprisingly good. There is a tear on the drivers back rest and on the top of the rear seat but the rest is intact. It has no hydraulic brakes. The pedal is limp on the floor. The parking brake does work.
The oil is old but did not have water in it. The gas tank is all gummed up. We got it to run with gas in a soda bottle. It ran somewhat smoothly with no bad sounds. Fuel leaking (pouring) out of the carb- but she ran. We then jacked up the rear, started it again and put it in drive and reverse. No bad noises from the trans. We gave him $$ and put it on a trailer... here we are.
The gas tank is coming out and the radiator is out already.

These are in no particular order. Please feel free to answer on any or all questions----- thanks guys.
And yes, a shop manual is a must and on order but I don't have it yet.
My goal is to get this running for now and deal with the little stuff later.

1- The carb needs rebuilding. I did a few in hi school but nothing like this. I watched a few youtube videos and it doesn't appear that bad. Any carb rebuild tips or tricks?

2- Master cylinder. Is it best to have mine rebuilt or just get another? Where is a good place to get another one or get mine rebuilt? I will just hlget new wheel cylinders.

2a- I am at a loss with the power booster and need a good tutorial on how to bleed the system. I assume it will be in the manual but appreciate any tips and tricks.

3- Waterpump. Same as #2. I have never rebuilt a waterpump. Any special tools needed?

4- there appears to have been some sort of undercoating on the car. A lot of it flaked off when I cleaned it. Is that undercoating or a sound deadener?

5- My kid will be driving this. It will have seat belts. Any installation advice would be appreciated.

6- As my kid will be driving it, I am seriously considering an electric fuel pump for vapor lock reasons. I don't want to but I want this to be as trouble free as possible. I know this will spark some debate but advise would be appreciated. Did they make an AC pump with a return vent? The tank will be out anyway so I could see if I could get a vent tube welded in.

7- I am considering premade brake lines. I have not really done any line fabrication before. Anybody get premade lines before? And again, where is the best place? If I try it myself, what size line should it be?

8- timing chain. This has about 57K miles on it. Did the timing gears have nylon coating on them then? I have seen chains but not a chain gear set. Should I change the chain and if so do I need new gears? To check the slop, can I just rotate the engine and see how many degrees it turns before the distributor starts to turn? How much slop is acceptable?

9- lot of plumbing under there. What is the best way to bypass the heater core for now?

10- No offense to this forum, but I have seen a few refrences to a 54-56 forum. I can't find it.

11- I need to clean the interior but don't want to hurt it. When I pound on the seats dust flies up. Can I clean this fabric with a Rug Doctor upholstery tool or will getting it wet along with the soap hurt the fabric?

12- Any other suggestions on other topics welcomed.

Sorry to be so elementary but this is just different than I am used to. And sorry for the long post but I thought this may be the easiest way to ask a lot of questions.

Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

30326

I would suggest buying a 1954-1956 Cadillac - Authenticity Manual https://cadillaclasalleclub.site-ym.com/store/ViewProduct.aspx?id=7782525.
Not sure how much it will help you, but for 40 USD plus shipping I guess it could be worth it.

http://midcenturycadillacs.com/ might be the place you looking for.

On CLC https://cadillaclasalleclub.site-ym.com/page/regions_chapters#chapters there is a 54-56 chapter, but weblink is not working.


Dan LeBlanc

I'll throw in my two cents where I can.

Quote from: Jeff Rose                                         CLC #28373 on June 13, 2017, 12:27:23 PM
Greetings
We just got a 55. And folks, I have a lot of questions. I figured I would put what I have so far into this one thread to avoid a bunch of little ones.
I am somewhat familiar with late 60's and early 70's systems, but nothing this old.
Here is what we have. It is a 55 that had been in storage for about 20 years. It does not appear to have been butchered, however I admit I am not sure of what I am looking at. We climbed under it and stabbed the floors and frame with a screwdriver and all seems solid. Interior is surprisingly good. There is a tear on the drivers back rest and on the top of the rear seat but the rest is intact. It has no hydraulic brakes. The pedal is limp on the floor. The parking brake does work.
The oil is old but did not have water in it. The gas tank is all gummed up. We got it to run with gas in a soda bottle. It ran somewhat smoothly with no bad sounds. Fuel leaking (pouring) out of the carb- but she ran. We then jacked up the rear, started it again and put it in drive and reverse. No bad noises from the trans. We gave him $$ and put it on a trailer... here we are.
The gas tank is coming out and the radiator is out already.

These are in no particular order. Please feel free to answer on any or all questions----- thanks guys.
And yes, a shop manual is a must and on order but I don't have it yet.
My goal is to get this running for now and deal with the little stuff later.

1- The carb needs rebuilding. I did a few in hi school but nothing like this. I watched a few youtube videos and it doesn't appear that bad. Any carb rebuild tips or tricks?

2- Master cylinder. Is it best to have mine rebuilt or just get another? Where is a good place to get another one or get mine rebuilt? I will just hlget new wheel cylinders.

2a- I am at a loss with the power booster and need a good tutorial on how to bleed the system. I assume it will be in the manual but appreciate any tips and tricks.

3- Waterpump. Same as #2. I have never rebuilt a waterpump. Any special tools needed?

Only special tool you need here really is a press.  The shop manual is a pretty good resource when it comes down to the water pump rebuild

4- there appears to have been some sort of undercoating on the car. A lot of it flaked off when I cleaned it. Is that undercoating or a sound deadener?

From factory, these cars would've had red oxide primer on the floors with body colour overspray along the rockers.  The undercoating was a dealer applied "accessory."  While Cadillac didn't officially recommend it in 1955 as they thought the cars were good without it, they recognized it as a revenue stream for dealers, so gave some technical info on where to apply and not to apply.

5- My kid will be driving this. It will have seat belts. Any installation advice would be appreciated.

6- As my kid will be driving it, I am seriously considering an electric fuel pump for vapor lock reasons. I don't want to but I want this to be as trouble free as possible. I know this will spark some debate but advise would be appreciated. Did they make an AC pump with a return vent? The tank will be out anyway so I could see if I could get a vent tube welded in.

I think the vapor return line came later than 1955.  If you're looking to eliminate the glass bowl filter under the hood, you can buy a steel in-line fuel filter that has a return on it.  I believe the application is Jeep.  Fram part # G3583DP.

7- I am considering premade brake lines. I have not really done any line fabrication before. Anybody get premade lines before? And again, where is the best place? If I try it myself, what size line should it be?

Pre-made lines are hit and miss.  I've tried a reputable outfit before, and they weren't even close.  Heard the same from many others.  For the difference of what you'd spend for a simple hand-held bender, a double flare tool, and a roll of steel brake line you would spend for pre bent lines.  Then you have the tools to keep afterward.

http://www.eastwood.com/triple-head-180-degree-tubing-bender-3-16-3-8-in.html?SRCCODE=PLA00020&product_id=12435&adpos=1o2&creative=83580267780&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=Cj0KEQjwmv7JBRDXkMWW4_Tf8ZoBEiQA11B2fmtVxL9vvZD8Ws8B44XgUG6SUtatHeAbqeY39NWxvq0aAq2E8P8HAQ

8- timing chain. This has about 57K miles on it. Did the timing gears have nylon coating on them then? I have seen chains but not a chain gear set. Should I change the chain and if so do I need new gears? To check the slop, can I just rotate the engine and see how many degrees it turns before the distributor starts to turn? How much slop is acceptable?

No nylon here, fortunately.  At 57k miles, your timing chain is barely broken in!

9- lot of plumbing under there. What is the best way to bypass the heater core for now?

10- No offense to this forum, but I have seen a few refrences to a 54-56 forum. I can't find it.

11- I need to clean the interior but don't want to hurt it. When I pound on the seats dust flies up. Can I clean this fabric with a Rug Doctor upholstery tool or will getting it wet along with the soap hurt the fabric?

I wouldn't go too crazy with it.  A rug doctor will put out too much water.  You want something more like this (Best cleaning tool I've ever bought, each car gets a shampoo 2x/year).
  It's very good at extracting moisture.  Be very gentle with cleaners though.


https://www.bissell.com/autocare-proheat-portable-carpet-cleaner-14256

12- Any other suggestions on other topics welcomed.

Sorry to be so elementary but this is just different than I am used to. And sorry for the long post but I thought this may be the easiest way to ask a lot of questions.

Jeff
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

James Landi

you have two heater cores--- one on each side behind the kick panels--- long hose runs possible hose rot... heater cores are substantially made.
The fuel pump on these is bolted on to the oil fill, and after awhile the actuator arm in the pump develops too much wear, and the pump is rendered useless.  Many folk pack the arm and pivot point with grease--- suggest you unbolt yours and check it out.  (Problem with electric FP is flooding and fire...quadra jet carb is an easy rebuild but you must be very careful as parts bend easily and reassembly can cause you issues if you're impatient... Also, you MUST use compressed air to clear passages.  Glad to know that you're installing safety belts in the car for your boy.

Dan LeBlanc

If installing an electric fuel pump, I would install a relay kit tapped into the oil pressure switch gallery that, in the event of a loss of oil pressure, will kill the power to the fuel pump.  It will turn on the pump for a few seconds to prime things before starting when there is no oil pressure.

I believe many of the places like Jegs and Summit have them.
Dan LeBlanc
1977 Lincoln Continental Town Car

Caddy Wizard

Regarding fuel pumps and vapor lock:

have driven 55 and 56 Cadillacs for about 15 of the last 25 years as daily drivers.  I feel your pain.  This sounds like classic, typical performance trouble for these engines.

I chased this and chased this over the years.  The only thing that ever eliminated it COMPLETELY was to install a very robust electric fuel pump back near the tank and remove the push rod from the mechanical pump (making it just for looks, as the fuel passively flowed through the mechanical pump).  No more hard starting after running into the grocery store to pick up stuff for dinner.  No more trouble going uphill after getting the engine fully hot.  No more stalling in 95 degree heat with the AC on while stuck in traffic (with a bride and groom in the back seat!).  For me, this was the only thing that ever really fixed it.

I don't know if these cars had this trouble back in the day (I doubt it).  But with modern fuel being so volatile and boiling so easily, we can't rely on mechanical pumps to pull on the gasoline and by virtue of the low pressure entice ever more of the fuel to go to a vapor state.  Instead, the cure is to push the fuel, more like a fuel injected car does today.

If you only use the car once in a while or for club events and stay out of the heat, my solution (installing a robust pusher pump) is not worth the hassle.  In that case, just live with the occasional trouble.   For me, I was driving these cars a lot and it is very hot in Georgia in the summer time.  I ran the AC a lot.  Since I would even use these cars to go to client meetings, I really needed them to be reliable -- they were not just pretty cars to enjoy on the weekends.  Call me crazy, but I really enjoyed driving them as everyday cars.  Here are the three Cadillacs I drove the most over the last 25 years.

What happens is that once the engine gets fully hot, the fuel in the lines can be very close to going to vapor simply due to the high temperature.  The low pressure placed on the fuel by the mechanical pump can further pull the liquid into a vapor state.  That vapor tends to lean out the engine as the carburetor is running a little low on fuel.  The lean condition makes the engine run hotter, reinforcing the cycle and causing more fuel to go to vapor.  Eventually, the vapor wins out and the engine stalls.  This usually happens in hot weather with the car stuck in traffic and the air on.

The other problem is similar.  You get the engine fully hot and the pull into a store to buy something.  While you are in the store with the engine off, the temperature in the engine compartment is actually rising.  Come out 20 minutes later and the fuel in the carb and lines has vaporized and you are essentially out of fuel.  So the engine is hard to restart. (others theorize that the vapors make the engine run too rich to start, but I think just the opposite).  Regardless of the physics involved, the net result is that the heat-induced vaporization makes the car hard to start.  You'll kill the battery before the mechanical pump can overwhelm the circumstances and get you going again.  Normally, the solution is to leave the hood open for a while to cool the engine, pour cold water on the pump and the lines, wait 10 minutes, and start the car.

If you live in cooler climes and/or avoid summer driving, all of this is more academic.  But for me in the south in the summer heat while wearing a suit on my way to client meeting in Atlanta traffic, it was a big deal.

Regarding safety of electric pumps, I addressed that in my installation.  Key switch to power relay, power relay to crash relay, crash relay to pump.  So in the event of a crash, even a relatively minor one, the crash relay trips and kills power to the epump and you won't be feeding a fire with fuel flowing under pressure.  The relay I used is sold by Ron Francis Wiring, but is a Ford part, I think.  Ford used this on pickup trucks for a while, I believe.  Anyway, if you do have a minor crash and the relay trips, you can reset it with a push of a reset button on the relay.  The crash relay has won awards for safety in the automotive aftermarket.

I ran the epump continuously, not as an auxiliary.  I selected a pump that puts out relatively low pressures (3-15psi, as I recall), with a built-in adjustable pressure regulator.  So it was easy to dial it in to the proper fuel pressure for our cars.

Anyway, epumps may not be for everyone.  But in my experience, it was the only thing that reliably worked to eliminate the trouble.
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under resto -- has been in paint shop since June 2022!)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1958 Eldo Seville (2/3 done)

Jay Friedman

My responses to your questions are in CAPITAL LETTERS:

1- The carb needs rebuilding. I did a few in hi school but nothing like this. I watched a few youtube videos and it doesn't appear that bad. Any carb rebuild tips or tricks?  THOSE 4 BARREL CARBS ARE COMPLICATED.  I WOULD SEND IT FOR REBUILDING TO A PROFESSIONAL.  MY FAVORITE IS LARRY ISGRO, 1604 ARGYLE ROAD, WANTAGH NY 11793, TEL: 516-783-1041 BUT THERE ARE OTHERS TOO.

2- Master cylinder. Is it best to have mine rebuilt or just get another? Where is a good place to get another one or get mine rebuilt? I will just hlget new wheel cylinders.  HAVE YOUR MASTER AND WHEEL CYLINDERS REBUILT AND SLEEVED WITH BRASS OR STAINLESS STEEL.  THEY'LL BE GOOD FOREVER AND MUCH SAFER.  2 FIRMS WHO DO THIS ARE WHITE POST RESTORATIONS, WWW.WHITEPOST.COM AND HAGEN'S AUTO PARTS, WWW.HAGENSAUTOPARTS.COM

2a- I am at a loss with the power booster and need a good tutorial on how to bleed the system. I assume it will be in the manual but appreciate any tips and tricks.

3- Waterpump. Same as #2. I have never rebuilt a waterpump. Any special tools needed?  THESE WATER PUMPS CAN BE TRICKY SINCE, AMONG OTHER THINGS, THEY HAVE SPECIAL WASHERS PREVENTING LEAKS FROM THE BACK PLATE.  SEND IT TO ARTHUR GOULD REBUILDERS, WWW.ARTHURGOULDREBUILDERS.COM WHO ARE VERY EXPERIENCED IN DOING THEM.

4- there appears to have been some sort of undercoating on the car. A lot of it flaked off when I cleaned it. Is that undercoating or a sound deadener?

5- My kid will be driving this. It will have seat belts. Any installation advice would be appreciated.

6- As my kid will be driving it, I am seriously considering an electric fuel pump for vapor lock reasons. I don't want to but I want this to be as trouble free as possible. I know this will spark some debate but advise would be appreciated. Did they make an AC pump with a return vent? The tank will be out anyway so I could see if I could get a vent tube welded in. I WOULD FIRST TRY USING ETHANOL FREE GASOLINE EXCLUSIVELY IF IT IS AVAILABLE IN YOUR AREA, AND YOU MAY SOLVE ANY POTENTIAL VAPOR LOCK PROBLEMS BEFORE INSTALLING AN ELECTRIC PUMP.  IF IT DOESN'T OR IF THERE IS NO ETHANOL FREE GAS IN YOUR AREA, YOU COULD THEN GO WITH AN ELECTRIC PUMP.

7- I am considering premade brake lines. I have not really done any line fabrication before. Anybody get premade lines before? And again, where is the best place? If I try it myself, what size line should it be?  IN MY OPINION YOU WOULD BE BETTER OFF FIGHTING WITH PRE-BENT LINES, EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT PERFECT, THAN STARTING FROM SCRATCH WITH A ROLL OF LINE AND TOOLS.  I THINK YOU'D SAVE LOTS OF TIME AND EFFORT.  MAKE SURE YOU GET STAINLESS STEEL LINES TO GO WITH THE SLEEVED CYLINDERS I SUGGESTED.

8- timing chain. This has about 57K miles on it. Did the timing gears have nylon coating on them then? I have seen chains but not a chain gear set. Should I change the chain and if so do I need new gears? To check the slop, can I just rotate the engine and see how many degrees it turns before the distributor starts to turn? How much slop is acceptable? AS DAN SAID, IT WOULD BE VERY UNUSUAL THAT YOUR TIMING CHAIN IS WORN OUT AT 57K MILES.

9- lot of plumbing under there. What is the best way to bypass the heater core for now?

10- No offense to this forum, but I have seen a few refrences to a 54-56 forum. I can't find it.

11- I need to clean the interior but don't want to hurt it. When I pound on the seats dust flies up. Can I clean this fabric with a Rug Doctor upholstery tool or will getting it wet along with the soap hurt the fabric?

12- Any other suggestions on other topics welcomed.  HAVE FUN.  ANY '49-'55 CADILLACS IS A GREAT CAR. 
1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

Bob Kielar

Hello Jeff,

I agree with Jay Arthur Gould for the water pump had mine done in February 2017 $165.00

I got my stainless steel brake lines from inline tube the complete set in 2011 was $195.76. Also got the stainless fuel line from them that was $144.00. I ordered the push in clamps to hold the brake lines they were $16.50.

I have most of my receipts from restoring my 55 Fleetwood so post away either here or on Mid-Century Cadillac forum.

Keep Cruzin,
Bob Kielar
Keep Cruzin
1955 Cadillac Fleetwood

kkarrer

Jeff,
      Call me if you like here at the house.  512-626-7268  Austin, Texas.  I've restored 4 or 5 55's and 1 56.  I don't consider myself an expert, but I do know those cars and would be glad to help.
Ken Karrer
Cen Tex CLC Reg. Dir.
kenneth.karreremail addresses not permitted

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

Thanks guys.
I have only had a couple of hours to spend in it so far-a little each night, you know the deal. Have cleaned about 40 years of gunk off of everything so I only have 20 more years of gunk to go. Have the radiator out (that bottom hose sure is a tight fit) and will bring it to the shop today along with the generator. I am soaking the bolts on the tank straps and they are not ready to come out yet. Got the carb off last nite and will dive into that shortly. Need to get the master cylinder off and send it out. Just signed up for the Mid Century forum. Still trying to decide on premade lines and the electric fuel pump issue.
Ken, I certainly will be calling you in a bit-thanks for the offer.
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

D.Yaros

1- The carb needs rebuilding. I did a few in hi school but nothing like this. I watched a few youtube videos and it doesn't appear that bad. Any carb rebuild tips or tricks?

   Nothing particularly unique to the 4-Jet rebuild process. I created a tutorial when I did mine.
        You will find it here-
  http://graylady.atwebpages.com/CarbRebuild.htm

2- Master cylinder. Is it best to have mine rebuilt or just get another? Where is a good place to get another one or get mine rebuilt? I will just hlget new wheel cylinders.

   I would have it rebuilt.  I would recommend Terrill Machine in DeLeon, TX
   Terrill Machine Inc Claim
   1008 County Road 454, De Leon, Texas 76444
   (254) 893-2610


or you could try these guys;
   I used them and was very satisfied with their work, pricing and communication -
   http://brakematerialsandparts.webs.com/brakerebuilding.htm


9- lot of plumbing under there. What is the best way to bypass the heater core for now?

   Remove the in and out hoses from the heater core and connect them together with a nipple.

10- No offense to this forum, but I have seen a few refrences to a 54-56 forum. I can't find it.

   Never heard of such.  You may be thinking of the Mid-Century Cadillacs Forum -
        http://midcenturycadillacs.com/

12.  Other suggestions
   I have a 1955 Cadillac website with tons of info, much of which you may find of interest/value -
   http://graylady.atwebpages.com/
        Enjoy being the owner of a Cadillac!
Dave Yaros
CLC #25195
55 Coupe de Ville
92 Allante
62 Olds  

You will find me on the web @:
http://GDYNets.atwebpages.com  -Dave's Den
http://graylady.atwebpages.com -'55 CDV site
http://www.freewebs.com/jeandaveyaros  -Saved 62 (Oldsmobile) Web Site
The home of Car Collector Chronicles.  A  monthly GDYNets newsletter focusing on classic car collecting.
http://www.scribd.com/D_Yaros/

55 cadi

I put in three point harness in the back seat for my kids, and will be putting in front soon.

I made the rear be almost invisible and functional, took setting up two times both different to find this was best, to me.

Can send picture, will take if wanted
Jason
1955 Cadillac sedan series 62
1966 mustang convertible w/pony PAC, now in Sweden
2005 Cadillac deville

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

CadillacRob

1) the carb is not that complex.  You can do it, just take pictures through disassembly.  Pretty straight forward.

2)get a new MC and wheel cylinders.  Try rock auto first.  They're very affordable.

3) Water pump.  Buy a new one or ship it off.  I rebuilt mine and it failed.  You need more than a press.  There is a lip in the housing that has to be machined.  I could go on but trust me, leave it to a pro or buy another.

4)undercoating.  They all had it.

6) pass on the electric pump.  High test non ethanol.

7) making lines isn't hard.  Good time to learn if you're willing.  Use a brake line material called NiCopp.  It's nickel copper, corrosion resistant, good for brake lines and gas lines and very easy to work with.  Bends by hand, flares well. You'll want a good flare tool.  Napa sells one that's like $60 or so that's very good.  They also sell rolls of the line.  Cut out original stuff and bring it in to compare.  I do this all the time.
1950 series 61 sedan
1956 coupe de ville