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1970 Fleetwood factory option sunroof repair

Started by Caddie1970, July 10, 2017, 06:38:57 PM

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Caddie1970

I bought a 1970 Fleetwood Brougham from the original owner a number of years ago. The car was equipped with every factory option except leather seats, including the then-new sunroof option. It was ordered from the factory with a sunroof, and I have the original documentation to prove it.

The sunroof didn't work well. I brought it to the local Caddy dealer, who actually had guys on staff old enough to remember those cars, and asked them to look at it. I furnished the service manuals, including the supplement for sunroofs. They had previously done a lot of good mechanical work on the car, respecting my wish to maintain complete stock authenticity, and so it seemed like a reasonable choice.  But after some time, they gave up, wound it shut, and disconnected the power. They suggested I find someone truly expert to do their thing, and I wish they had told me that before they spent a great deal of time (and my money) deciding it was beyond their ability. My big fear is that they made the situation worse, but I am unable to tell.

So, here I am.  I'm looking for someone truly expert in the repair/restoration of those factory-option ASC sunroofs, who can take mine and get it to work. I really don't want to do any further work on the vinyl roof or interior headliner before that's taken care of. Currently, I never take the car out if there's any possibility of rain, since I don't trust it to keep water out, even though they assured me it would be water-tight.

Anyone out there know of a reliable professional for that work? I'm based in Michigan. The car is in the Upper Peninsula, but it would be easy enough to get it as far as the Twin Cities, Milwaukee, or Detroit, so I'd prefer that general area, to start. But if I have to, I'd consider more distance, as well.

I hope someone can help!
Tony Pizzi
CLC #26189
1970 Eldorado
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
2008 STS V8 AWD

chrisntam

Get yourself a Hemmings Motor News, thumb through it to see what you find.  Look under the "Services Offered" area. 

I don't recall seeing anything as far as sunroofs specifically, but maybe you can find something similar, make some calls and get some leads that way.

Perhaps someone will chime in here and give you a lead as well.
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

The Tassie Devil(le)

I know that with the sun roof in my '72 Eldorado, it stopped working properly when one of the main diecast control levers snapped, and I couldn't find a replacement.

The only other way these would not operate is if the coiled operating cables that pull the hatch open and closed got that dirty, and the grease so stiff that the electric motor couldn't move it, and thew circuit breaker came in.

It is a bit like the power window operation, in a late model car that uses cables as against levers.

The drains, usually one in each corner, must be clear, and capable of flowing water.   Probably never been cleaned out in their life.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Caddie1970

I subscribe to Hemmings, actually. Been striking out, there. The Caddy dealer said that a part had broken.  They tried to get a metal fabricator to reproduce the part, but no dice. That's when they gave up.

I never actually saw it apart, and never tried removing the headliner and looking at it, myself. My thought was, if they couldn't do it, I'd be even less likely to succeed.

My hope in coming here is that somewhere out there, there's someone who has done a number of fixes on them and can help. 1970 was the first model year they were offered, and they didn't become available until late in the model year, like March or April, around the same time that the anti-lock braking system debuted. I wouldn't expect there to have been many, that year, but in following years, the demand did pick up.

Then, again, there were tens of thousands of them equipped from the factory with Automatic Level Control, but still, no one is producing the rebuild kits for the pumps, and it's almost impossible to find one that works. I managed to, and the system functioned for about a year, then failed again.

I guess if this hobby we're easy, it wouldn't be as much fun... 😏
Tony Pizzi
CLC #26189
1970 Eldorado
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
2008 STS V8 AWD

Barry M Wheeler #2189

Re: The Broken Part...

Would a 3-D printer help? Otherwise, why not try the parts dealers that advertise in HMN in the warmer (hotter) parts of the country and see if any of them may have something like this stashed away. This is the kind of part that a savvy parts yard owner may have pulled off years ago, knowing that it might become impossible to find someday and "get well" on. Long shot, yes, but you might try a few phone calls.

Another thing you might try is join our Club. One of the best membership benefits is our Directory. In it are listed all the people that own your year car. One of them may have taken one of the parts you need off "just in case." Please make note of the time zone that you and the people you are calling. In other words, don't call at meal times or after bed times. When I was President, one time I got a phone call from Australia at 4 AM and the guy talked blithely on and on for over an hour with my bride fuming next to me in bed. This was when phones were fixed to a location by a cord...

In any case, best of luck. (Oh, try John Gately in Mass. He advertises in HMN and this is just the type of thing he may have saved.)
Barry M. Wheeler #2189


1981 Cadillac Seville
1991 Cadillac Seville

wrench

I have no clue about the power roof, yet...I have a 70 Eldorado with a functioning sun roof and expect to have to figure something out sooner or later.

I do wonder if you have the manual override crank handle that comes with the car?

I dont have one for mine and have not looked into what type of drive is used on the override.

Since you paid for the diagnosis, maybe they could be a bit more specific with what was determined to be at fault?

What was the original problem?

1951 Series 62 Sedan
1969 Eldorado
1970 Eldorado (Triple Black w/power roof)
1958 Apache 3/4 ton 4x4
2005 F250
2014 FLHP
2014 SRX

Caddie1970

@Wrench

I do have the manual crank. Not sure that was what the dealer used to close it.  The specific mechanic who worked on the car moved on, shortly thereafter, and I have no contact info to ask him about the specific problem. My recollection is that they had a local machine shop try to fabricate the missing/broken part, to no avail. That's when they closed it completely and disconnected the motor, and told me I needed to find someone with more experience than they had. This all happened in 2012, by the way...

@Barry Wheeler

I am a member of CLC, actually. I also have a white, low-mileage (33,000) unrestored 1970 Eldorado (my profile photo) which became a Senior in Boston 2013. We chatted when the past presidents examined it for the unrestored car award (which it failed to get for the second time, having tried in Columbus in 2011, as well). I didn't see any specialists in sunroofs in the directory, but I'll check with some of the other contemporaneous owners for suggestions. There's got to be an answer out there, somewhere.
Tony Pizzi
CLC #26189
1970 Eldorado
1970 Fleetwood Brougham
2008 STS V8 AWD

Roadmaster75

When I was leasing industrial space for my cars and shop, the building next door housed a very busy
Sunroof shop.  I got to know the owner and he explained most of his business was from dealers.
Customers buying "off the lot" cars without sunroofs that wanted sunroofs.  The guys shop stocked all the parts from the manufacturers and they would need half a day to install...using all the factory parts.  These jobs were treated as factory & were covered under warranty.

They did custom stuff too.
That's all these guys did was sunroofs.

You may wish to enquire where dealers send new cars to have sunroofs done for customers.
There may be a good chance that a modern motor and drive mechanism could be adapted to
Your stock track and lid.
Just a thought.


wrench

#8
So, in the interim since your original post and my reply, I have been doing some research on the subject (in my spare time of course).

ASC did install sunroofs in other cars in greater quantities. Thousands of Cougars and Thunderbirds and some Mopars of the era had similar systems installed.

They are based on a German design that actually went into VWs. BMWs and Benz's.

It looks like you can find some basic stuff online through enthusiast suppliers for those cars.

I did find an interesting link from 2014 with the name and number of a guy who goes back to those days in the business.
It was an Avanti enthusiast website, apparently they were installed in Avanti's as well.

May be worthwhile to try to contact the guy in the Dallas area listed in the first reply. He may be able to point you in a direction.

I honestly dont know what the other guy is talking about with some other vendor in one of the other replies. (Sky Top)

http://www.aoai.org/forums/topic/3550-asr-sunroof-repairsparts/

Another guy in Rochester, NY...

http://www.timstrim.com/restyling/electric-sunroofs/
1951 Series 62 Sedan
1969 Eldorado
1970 Eldorado (Triple Black w/power roof)
1958 Apache 3/4 ton 4x4
2005 F250
2014 FLHP
2014 SRX

J. Skelly

The Service write-up guy at my local Chevy dealer came to my house to look at my '77.  He said if I ever needed any work done to go to a Mercedes dealer.  He said they work on a lot of sunroofs and recommended using their seals to replace dry-rotted seals used on the ASC sunroofs and astroroofs.
Jim Skelly, CLC #15958
1968 Eldorado
1977 Eldorado Biarritz
1971 Eldorado (RIP)