How do you like your steering?

[Denise 20352]

  Of course everyone already knows that I bought a 2004 Grand Marquis, and that I absolutely HATE the thing.  Im told that it rides as smoothly and steers as easily as any new car, so now my   question is, someone must have persuaded the carmakers that they wanted a car that was difficult to steer and had a rough ride.  Who was it, and WHY?

  I drove my 76 hearse to work today, and could not believe how much easier it is to drive than the new car.  The steering is effortless, and I remember thinking that the ride was a little rougher than the 78 Deville was, but compared to the new car, its a magic carpet!

  Tony says that the federal standards limit the weight of a car, and that is why the Mercury rides so rough...but it weighs 4000 pounds.  How much does a 78 Deville weigh?  I dont think its much more than that.

  I wonder if there is any way I could make the steering box and the springs from the Sedan Deville fit in the Mercury.

-densie

[Rhino 21150]

Ask your dealer just what changes he can make to soften the ride. Like mushy springs and softer shocks. I  like those too. Then see if he can boost the steering pump output, like a smaller pulley or something. Perhaps there is an adjustment, though I doubt it. A larger wheel would also do the trick, thats how my 38 steers so lightly. Nineteen inch wheel! Bump the tire pressure two or three pounds. This stuff may not be factory parts so try aftermarket also.
As for the De Ville, it probably weighs around five thousand. My 76 Delta 88 weighs about forty eight hundred. You can get it weighed at a place that does recycling, buys scrap, or maybe even a truck stop. Some will go that low!

[Rob Gerace #16100]

A 78 deVille would weigh closer to 4000 lbs.  Remember, the full-sized GM cars were all downsized in 77.  Im sure the difference in ride is from the springs.  The more modern car is probably designed to handle a little better.  You almost always have to sacrifice ride for handling.  That is, of course, unless youre lucky enough to own one of the 90s Cadillacs with the $850 shocks that change properties with the dynamics of the type of driving youre doing.

Rob
66 SDV  

[Peter H.Luft / reply to denise]

Denise..........Put the Cadillac Radiator cap on it.......Peter


P.s. The steering feels that way because the tie rods are ahead of the spindle center line on a rack system...I purchased a 2003 Mercury Maurader as my work car, had a 1998 Lincoln Continental Coupe with a 5.4 before...after test driving everything, I found the Merc and the Model I purchased ( bucket seat, hi-pro 4.5, wheels, tires, BIG trunk)the best and it has worked out great, it could use about 50/75 more horsepower..............I put a lot of miles on my cars and only wish I could buy another new one, but ford dropped the Maurader from their product line, they also dropped the Lightning pick up truck which I have and I like as well as a C-5 Corvette, and I had a Blackwood Lincoln pick up.......hated the steering and ride of it, so I sold it, by the way ford dropped it as well................On your steering, have the dealer align it,  that may help...........but most importantly install the Cadillac Radiator Cap.

[densie 20352]

  I went to the Mercury dealer.  They charged me $59 for a wheel alignment and told me that there was nothing wrong with it.  So I sent an email to the dealership and asked them if there were any modifications of adjustments that could be done.  They never replied to me.  ;(

  Im actually tempted to take the thing back, ask how much it would cost just to get out from under it, and put the difference on my credit card.

  The biggest problem is, I never know when I will feel up to working on my cars.  I gave up on the Deville because it needed more work than I could ever get done, and I really wanted an older, larger car anyway.  The truck is reliable, but it doesnt steer right since the accident.  Although I drive it to work for laughs sometimes, the hearse is a long-term project.  That leaves me nothing to drive but this awful Mercury.

  Maybe by the time I get caught up on my projects (the airplane just blew its brake O-rings and the boat has a hole in the transom boot), I will have the car paid down enough to get an older Caddy, Lincoln, or New Yorker.  Whatever it would be, I would take some time to sit in it, feel it, smell it, drive it, decide whether I would really want to make it a long term ride.  I liked the body style on the Deville, but the car is really too small for me, and the interior looks kind of cheap.  I didnt take enough time to meditate on it before I bought it.

  Enough rambling.

-densie

[densie]

   Id better not.  It says that it weighs 17 pounds, and I dont want to lift that much.  

-densie

[Bob Dziewit]

Ive noticed a strong trend towards stiff suspensions and hard steering over the years.  My 89 Firebird steered like it had manual steering.  I think all of this is in the name of better handling.  The current generation of auto journalists feeds on this.  Anything old fashioned (read expensive to build) is bad in todays world of Government mandates and high labor costs to automakers who must show profits and yet be competitive.  Small, lightweight, fuel efficient cars dont handle or ride well and those characteristics are passed along to customers like you for the sake of trendiness on a product which could provide past levels of comfort and performance without any additional costs.  The steering on my 89 Grand Marquis provides a traditional level of power assist.  The 99 and 02 Camaros I owned steered like trucks.  The 03 Monte Carlo SS is surprisingly not too bad.  The 50s era Chrysler products were criticized for being over-assisted with little road feel.  I find those cars to steer exactly where I point them and are a pleasure to drive.  There is a supplier of rebuilt steering boxes for those Chryslers which offers several levels of power assist ranging from OEM to "modern" lack of assist.  With internal re-calibration of your Mercurys steering box hydraulics, you could probably obtain the desired level of assist.  But of course the dealership and nearly everyone else in the service industry wouldnt have a clue to what were talking about.  Maybe that guy who does the old Chrysler units could if he tried (just send money).

[densie]

   Maybe in a few years.  I contacted a steering specialist and he said that there was nothing he could do with racks, and that the manufacturor wanted them to be stiff.  I checked the other day, there are 2.5 turns in the steering, lock to lock.  I thought it was bad in the late 70s when they went to 3, sneeze and you run off the road, but at least they had power steering back then.

   Ive thought about applying voltage or whatever it needs to the connector at the rack and making it apply full power steering at all speeds, or maybe changing the caster angle with some creative shimming, or maybe taking the car back to the service department and just refusing to accept it back intil it has power steering, even if it means a repossession.  Or maybe parking it down in the bad side of town and taking a cab somewhere else.

   One thing that is for sure is that I made a BIG mistake in buying that car.  I tried emailing the Mercury dealer about it and they just never answered me.

-densie

[Randall Ayers McGrew CLC # 17963]

Denise,

As a handicapped individual, I can empathize with your situation.  It makes me madder than hell, in fact.  If I may, I would like to email Mercury on your behalf...I think we all should...to have that steering adjusted properly for you.
Someone should be able to do SOMETHING for you.  

Dont give up...unlike me, dont get mad...just get it done.  Keep at it and see if they cannot help you.  Contact your local consumer advocate on a local news station, contact the Attorney Generals office in your state; contact your local city representative.  Yes it takes time and its a pain in the arse but no one else will help if you do not start rocking the cage.  

If you would like, I would be happy to start by emailing the dealership, and the Lincoln-Mercury Headquarters.  I just need your full name, contact information, dealership and what you bought, and what you need.  The rest, as they say, is a matter of typing.  

Please let me know if I can be any help at all.

Sincerely,

Randy

[Mike #19861]

 I, too, find the steering excessively stiff on most all of the newer cars I have driven. After a stint at the wheel, it actually makes my neck and shoulders hurt. The seats, while supposedly orthpedically designed, make my back hurt. And all this combined with an overly stiff suspension make for a very uncomfortable ride.

 Even with the F-41 suspension, my 85 Caprice is a comfortable car to drive. It has the old standard bench seat, albeit with power adjustment. I can jump in that car and go anywhere with no complaints.

 Belive it or not, I can jump into a Freightliner and go anywhere. These trucks, with the air ride seats, are incredibly comfortable. The steering is just about right, with a well placed wheel. All trucks now have sophisticated tilt and telescopic steering. Even bob tailing, I find them more comfortable than most any new car. Now, what does that say? You just have to get used to a heavy clutch and the art of gear changing.

 Maybe that is on of the reasons I hang onto these old cars. Because they are indeed comfortable. The steering in the 86 Fleetwood is very light, and the suspension soft, but it still rides like a truck compared to my 70 Fleetwood, which is like riding on a cloud. The suspension in the Caprice (an 85) is firm and well contolled, but by no means harsh.

 I think the last newer car I drove with truly smooth suspension, and easy steering, was the 1993-96 Cadillac Fleetwood. These cars are defineatly in the class of the traditional road eater. Smooth and comfortable with easy steering. But are they in no way the wallowing pigs that some of these old cars could be.

  Mike

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Densie,

One way to make the steering lighter is to increase the tyre pressure.

If the factory pressure is 26, increase the pressure up to 34.   You will be surprised the difference in both steering and handling.

My 97 Ford Falcon has a factory specification of 26 psi, but I run them at 32, and when I am going on a long ru up the highway, I inflate them up to 34 or 36.   But, you must be careful in wet weather with the higher pressures.   If I am going to be fanging it, I will inflate to 40 psi, but then reduce the pressure to 32 for everyday driving.

I run the tyres on my 60 CDV at 30 to 34 with no problems.

The reason the manufacturers mention such a low pressure is so that the ride of the car will be soft for passenger comfort.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

[Randall Ayers McGrew CLC # 17963]

Gday, Bruce!  Now that you mention it, my 77 Eldo has a rated pressure of 28 psi  to 24 psi on all tires with two passengers(24 to 20 psi with 5 passengers)!  I thought that was a bit low for such a heavy car (it is considerably heavier than 4000 lbs.).  But what you say makes sense.  I always run my cars, of any make, at 32 psi unless told to do differently.  I wonder if I should go back to that?  Hmmmm.  Is it for ride alone?  Or is there another reason they would tell the owner to set all tires to 27 psi?

[Randall Ayers McGrew CLC # 17963]

Gods honest truth ... the 1960 Cadillac series 62 sedan was the smoothest, and nimblest car to drive.  I could go all day in it without pain.  I am hoping the 1956 is like that too.  I hurt in the 1977 Eldorado, not because it is not comfortable but because the angle of the seat makes my wreck of a neck and back ache no matter how I adjust it.  Still it is very nice on the road....handling, well its a bit of a pig but what the heck.  Not that 60.  I was won over to Cadillac by driving that car.  I still remember my first ride in it.  I was simply amazed at its comfort, and it was not in really good shape inside.  Mechanically it was sound as a Euro (sorry guys but the dollar is slipping).  Maybe I should have gone for a 1960 instead of the 1956.  I hope not. The old 56 is just too beeautiful to me.

[David #19063]

Mike,

I read up on the 94-96 Large GMs and it said the Fleetwood was build with a stiffer suspension that the Roadmaster and Caprice.

So, in one would want a soft riding car from that family, they should buy the Roadmaster.

David

[David #19063]

...when you increase the tire pressure, you sacrifice the ride, which is not what Denise desires.  She wants both.

Personally, I run the tires at near max.  On my wifes 96 Concours, ususlly 40-44 psi.  Her tires are 44 psi max tires.  It makes the ride stiffer, but I get much better tire wear and handling.

I have never worn the centers out of my tires doing this on my cars, but I worn many outsides away following the manufacturers recommended pressure.  They have it lower for rise purposes not wear or handling.

The Cadillac manual I believe says to run them at 32 psi (H-Rated tires), unless you are doing a lot of high speed driving, then you are supposed to run at the max pressure.

On my classic cars, the max pressure on my tires is 35 psi, I run them at 35 psi, not 26 psi or less as the Manufacturer suggests.

David

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

David,

Funny thing, but when I was recovering from a spinal operation back in 1976, the cost comfortable vehicles I found that I could travel in was my 55 Chevrolet Convertible, and works 1976 Ford F100 Styleside pickup.   Even though those seats were non adjustable, apart from for and aft, they were superb.  I could never get my 72 Eldo Coupe with the 6 way power seats to a similar level of comfort, no matter how I moved the switch.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

[densie 20352]

  I doubt that any reporter would waste his time on my story, but I would welcome your help in bending an ear at Lincoln/Mercury.  Just dont spend too much of your time, because I really doubt that they will care.  Im in the CLC directory, but in case you dont have one handy,

Denise McCracken
7342 E Toronto St
Tucson, AZ 85730

Email dmcrack@cox.net

  I bought the car 10/26/04 from:

Jim Click Lincoln-Mercury, 1301 S Wilmot, Tucson, AZ

  On 1/10/05, I took it back to Jim Clicks service department and told them that the power steering wasnt working right, it was too hard to steer.  It groaned and tugged when it wasnt moving, and it seemed to get a little harder to steer as it warmed up.  It felt like it had too much positive caster because the steering wheel snapped into the center and didnt want to turn.

   That was a waste.  I was charged $59 because the bumper-to-bumper warranty that I purchased didnt cover the charge for putting the car onto the wheel alignment rack.  Their mechanic wrote "Unable to duplicate any abnormal steering effort check  FEA (within specs) adjust caster to lowest setting."

  I got a call from someone at Jim Click, I think his name was Bill, the next day, asking is I was satisfied with the service.  I told him, no, I wasnt, the car still felt like it had no power steering.  He said that their best front end tech had looked at it and found nothing wrong with it.  Then he asked if I was going to bring the car back again, and I told him that I didnt see any point in doing that.

  I emailed their service department from their website last week and asked if there was any way that they or a third party could repair or modify it so that I could steer it.  I also asked for some simple technical data, the normal caster setting, and a little about how the speed-sensitive steering worked so that I could have a mechanic look into modifying it.  They never answered me.

  What I need is for the car to steer more easily.  The steering wheel "snaps" into the center position and it takes a lot of effort to move it one way or the other.  When the road banks or curves slightly, the strain of holding it on the road sends a pain up my side.

  So why dont I just hold the wheel with both hands?  The wheel isnt telescoping, and the column is much too short.  By the time I move the seat back far enough to fit in the car, its a long reach.  Even tilted all of the way down, it doesnt work.  If you want to experience what Im talking about, try this...reach your hands out so that your arms are nearly fully extended, and raise your hands until they are above your shoulders.  Feel the pressure on the muscles in your neck?  Thats where my injury is.   Try to relax your shoulders.  You cant.  I can drive the truck or the hearse with both hands on the wheel for hours, but not this car.    

  I think that most people, not realizing the condition I was in when I needed a car, are just going to say that I was stupid enough to buy it and I should just live with it, but if anyone has a good idea, Id rather hear that.

  I did talk to a salesman today.  He said that I might be happier with one of those little SUVs, and he pointed me to a website where I could get the trade-in value for my car, which turned out to be $15,500.  I owe $27,400 on it.  I feel well enough to go test-driving now, but I would have negative $12k for a down payment.

  Tony and I talked over the idea of trying to get them to take the warranty and GAP insurance off and maybe settling for $10k to get rid of it, but that just didnt seem practical.  Im probably just going to be stuck with the car.

-densie

[Bruce Reynolds # 18992]

Dear Densie,

One question.

(1)   What was the test car like when you test drove the initial vehicle so you could eventually make the desision that you did?

(2)   What was the car like when you first picked it up from the dealer?

(3)   Has the steering got worse, or, heaven forbid, has your neck/shoulder problem gor worse?

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

[Porter CLC # pending]

And test drive a new one.

I get the impression it steered better when it was new.

If a new similar one steers easier they have an obligation to fix it if something is wrong with it.

Since the service manager asked if you would bring it back you should, call the factory zone rep, get some documentation if there is a problem.

I would assume the RWD platform rides smooth, we also assumed it would steer easier also as compared to FWD.

Apparently many here, (including myself) had never driven that car and ASSUMED the architecture of the vehicle would be the most comfortable based on your criteria. With all the police use I would expect it is durable and reliable, some people even weighed in with their satisfaction of high mileage ownership.

I cant imagine a Lincoln Town car is not smooth steering and riding, same platform.

I thought at one time you were satisfied with the vehicle.

Porter

[densie]

  Actually, I inflated the front tires up to the 40s, and it didnt make any difference in the steering effort.  The car just seems to be deliberately made to be hard to steer.

  Its interesting to watch the car commercials on television.  They always try to make you feel that youre going to have some wonderful experience when you buy their car.  When I was driving home from work today, my driving experience was like this:

  Theres a sharp curve coming up in the road, I have to turn the  steering wheel hard to the right and then back to the left just to get around it, its going to be hard to do, its going to hurt my neck and shoulder, and the car is going to fight me every inch of the way.

  If I do nothing, Im going to jump over this curb and ram head-on into oncoming traffic, but what the hell, I purchased the GAP insurance, the car will be totalled and then paid for, and I wont have to worry about the $12,000 that I would have to pay just to give this lousy car back to the dealer and get rid of it right now.

  And if I got injured or killed in the collision, I wouldnt have to get up and deal with all of the stress at work that is going to drive me insane tomorrow, and why am I going to work anyway, except to pay my student loans for the degree that I never finished, and to make the payments on this lousy sh*tbox that I cant stand to drive!!

  But for some reason, I turn the wheel anyway...and wouldnt it be nice if that were a little easier to do?

-densie