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How do you like your steering?

Started by Denise 20352, January 24, 2005, 07:25:37 PM

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densie


  Geez, Bruce, you sound like a lawyer.  Im not trying to sue Mercury or anything, just looking for a way to make my car easier to steer.  But Ill answer your questions anyway, just for the value of the story.

> What was the test car like when you test drove the initial vehicle so you could eventually make the desision that you did?

   It wasnt the same car that I got.  I drove a 2005, although I actually asked the salesman to do most of the driving.  I really didnt feel like test driving a car at all, and I only drove it a couple of blocks.   I was in a lot of pain, still freaked out over the accident, not ready to drive an unfamiliar car in and out of a dealership where there were cars moving around in a tight space.  People had told me that a Grand Marquis would ride smoothly and steer easily, and all I wanted to do was buy one, go home and go to bed. The salesman ended up selling me a 2004 that I hadnt driven.  He said that it was the same car as the 2005, only the dash looked a little different.  As it turned out, he sold me an "LS Premium", and the car that I had test driven was an "LS Ultimate".  Whether or not they steer any differently, I dont know.

> What was the car like when you first picked it up from the dealer?

   I was taking a lot of pain medicine then, still in physical therapy treatment.  I remember that I was happy to have a new car, I liked all of the bells and whistles, and the anti-lock brakes worked really well.  I was proud to have a new car, but it didnt drive like the Deville did.  I thought it was ironic that for the the first time in my life that I could afford a new car, there werent any cars that I wanted on the market anymore.

> Has the steering got worse, or, heaven forbid, has your neck/shoulder problem gor worse?

   Funny that you should ask that, because I took some pain medicine the other day, and the car seemed easier to drive.  Maybe what I need is not a car that is reasonably easy to steer, but enough narcotics that I dont care.

   No, thats not the answer, is it?  I remember when I was young and I used to enjoy a combustible euphoriac and a ride in the car, but a dose of pain medicine is not the same.  When Im taking pain medicine, all I want to do is get home.  If I have to take a heavy dose, I call for a ride because I dont want to drive at all.  These days, a chance to drive a car that rides smoothly and steers easily IS a euphoric!

   Hopefully I answered your questions...Im starting to get tired.

-densie

JIM CLC # 15000

01-27-05
Denise, there is something wrong with your car! Sounds like you need to take it to an Independent Alignment Shop. One that can repair power steering systems.
Tell them that you just paid for an alignment and have them road test the car.
A co-worker had a ford econoline van that the ford garage couldnt/wouldnt fix. When the warrenty ran-out, he took it to an indepedent shop and they called to let him know that the factory had left out a part.
The ind. shop installed the part, problem gone!

Good Luck, Jim

Bruce Reynolds # 18992

Boy, if I was a laywer, I would still be working, rich, and knocking on your door, ready to take up your case.

But, alas, I am just a retired Police Officer, who has changed the term "Retirement" into "Getting a Life"

Now, it seems as though your physical condition "might" just be the cause of the problem.   Have you tried steering the car with the hands at the bottom of the wheel?   Not the correct position, but just a suggestion

With power steering, one should be able to steer with one finger, and at the most, one hand.

Seeing as you dont want to be too drugged up when tackleing the highways and byways, I would recommend having a talk to the a Power Steering specialist shop and getting their opinion on replacing the internal valving in the pump to increase the line pressure.   The Circuit racing or Nascar guys might be doing something to increase pressure, you never know.

The next thing is going to take a bit of a chat to the dealer....explain the problems you are having....have an independent test drive both your car, and an identical one supplied by the dealer, in order to standardise parameters, and observe the results....then, if the both cars are the same....talk to the Lincoln Dealer, with an aim to getting some sort of authorisation to enable the Power Steering shop to perform the modifications, at your own cost, so that the vehicle warranty is not voided.

Doing it this way, and if it works, the Dealer should be very happy to assist in any way he or she can.....They will have a satisfied customer....They will have a thing to tell home office that may assist others who find the steering hard.....and, best of all, you will not have to take as many drugs.

Now, the way you tested and purchased the car, is not the ideal way, which you actually know, but as you were apprehensive about actually reiving it after your accident, I can understand.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le), and Hot Rodder,
60 CDV


densie


  I still think that the biggest problem is the steering ratio, 2.5 turns lock to lock.  Ive done a lot of reading about steering systems, in general, lately, and Ive found that slop of an inch or more in the steering is cause for concern.  With this car, movement of a fraction of an inch is enough to cause the car to run off of the road.

   Also, I read that there is a torque tube in the rack that opens the valve to let the fluid pressure in only when a certain amount of torque is actually applied to the rack.  This tells me that there isnt any way to loosen up the rack and increase the boost...its only going to happen when you actually apply the effort to the wheels.

   However, I found that the SST connector applies 14v to the  steering box when the vehicle is not in motion.  If you unplug the connector, it becomes more difficult to steer.  This makes me think that the voltage gets cut when the speed is increased, which, as is advertised, gives you that wonderful "road feel".  So, why not apply 14v to that connector all of the time, so that the steering boost would not be reduced as the car speeds up?  Or maybe I could use an ammeter to find out how much current the rack draws, and what resistance might be needed to put in a knob that controls the steering boost.  Mount a pot in the dash with a scale that indicates how much boost has been selected.  Maybe Mercury would buy the idea.  They could market it like the old "six positions of  tilt wheel" ad.  Maybe graduate it from:

   "Upper body workout"
   "18-wheel trucker"
   "MG Midget"
   "Country Sedan"  
   "Crippled Old Lady"
   "Denise"

  Yeah, thats the ticket.

  Another idea, put in a torque multiplier, like you put between a torque wrench and socket, that doubles the torque put to the linkage, but give the steering twice as many turns, which would be 5 turns lock-to-lock, which is what cars are supposed to have.

  One more plan, supposedly its illegal for me to take out the steering wheel that has the stupid air bag and replace it with one that doesnt, but I cant think of any reason why I couldnt fabricate a larger steering wheel that just attaches around the outside of the existing one.

   The thing about all of these ideas is that every one of them is easier to do than trying to find someone at Ford who actually cares.  I called the dealership again and they said that they might be able to look at it Monday.  I wrote a nice letter to Mercury, but I will be surprised if they respond.

   I work for a large, international corporation, and I once spent hours bebugging a program that caused a prompt "terminal type" to be displayed when a user logged in, with a default value so that all they had to do was press the ENTER key.  That was too much for them.  They didnt want have to press ENTER to get into an application.  The issue was caused by the database and had nothing to do with our application.  I didnt have time to screw around with something like that, but I researched it and fixed it for them anyway, because we do whatever we have to to please our customers.  Contrast that to the mechanic at the dealership who was told that someone was in pain and had trouble turning the steering wheel, and charged me $59 to say that nothing was wrong with it.  Our company is hundreds of times larger than their dealership, but well bend over backwards to help someone, and not charge them a dime.

   Doing business with a new car dealer is no different than taking an old car to a shop.  I thought that it might be, but it isnt.  If I want something done to my car, correctly, and up to the spec that I request, I just have to do it myself.

   And thats probably what I will end up doing.

-densie

Bruce Reynolds # 18992

Densie,

Silly me......I am still in the land of Power Steering Boxes, ha ha.

I have always had a problem with rack and pinion steering systems but the manufacturers like them as they are cheaper to utilise in the designing of the car.

But, that doesnt solve your problem.

But, and, this is a simply stupid idea, and good for a few laughs, but a "T" Model Ford Steering Wheel, would solve the problem, but you would probably end up with around 15 turns lock to lock.

But, (I like that word), the idea of keeping the 14 volts attached all the time might work.  I am not conversant with these new-fangled automotive gismoes.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

JIM CLC # 15000

01-28-05
Densie,in your post of 01-27-05 @ 21:46 hrs (9:46 PM), you stated that the PS unit was "Groane and tugge", sure sounds to me like the car has a problem.
There are a couple of things that you can do that might result in help comming your way.

1. Keep copies of the service done.(Under warrenty or not)Never can tell when you may need them.

2. Notify NSTB of the problem that you are having,(dont say anything about your accident or how bad you hurt, just facts about the problem) about the groaning and tugging. (you can find them on the web)

3. The dealer Should Have given you a copy of the AZ "Leamon Law". (if not, its on the web)


Good Luck, Jim

P.S. I know that jumping through the hoops can be a real pain in the north side, if you are facing south, but its hoops that you have to jump.

densie


  I took it back to the dealer again today, and they still insist that there is nothing wrong with it.  I actually went for a ride in it with a mechanic there that I knew, and he says that its supposed to moan and groan and shake when youre parking it, and the steering wheel is supposed to snap into the center and be difficult to deflect.  Its "made to be more precise than previous models", he said.  So, theyre probably not lying to me, and I probably just screwed up and bought a piece of cr*p.  Lesson learned the hard way.  I would never have believed that the top-of-the-line American-made Mercury would have been degraded into such a piece of garbage, but thats the way it goes.

  The car is still sitting there.  I just left them the key and told them that I didnt have any use for it.  I dont even want to see it in my driveway today.

  Eventually I have to think about what to do with it, and I think Im going to modify it.  Take a bad situation and make it into a fun project, maybe?  Whatever results, it cant be as bad as dropping it back on the lot and losing thousands of dollars.

-densie

Bruce Reynolds # 18992

Densie,

I dont suppose it is possible to retrofit a steering rack out of an earlier model, that is, one from a PMS, (Pre Moaning Steering) car?

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

Porter CLC # pending

Highlights for 2003

A "hot rod" Marauder model and optional front side airbags keynote Mercurys updated rear-wheel-drive full-size sedan for 2003. Grand Marquis shares its design with Fords Crown Victoria, though Crown Vic has no Marauder counterpart. These are among the few remaining body-on-frame automobiles, and the 03 versions aim for better ride and handling with a revamped chassis and a change in steering from recirculating-ball to speed-sensitive rack-and-pinion. Subtle modifications to nose and tail, plus new wheel designs are styling changes. Front side airbags are newly available. ABS and traction control continue as standard. All Gran Marquis have a 4.6-liter V8 and 4-speed automatic transmission. GS and LS models have 224 hp. An optional LS Handling Package added midyear includes dual exhausts for 239 hp. Marauder has a twincam 4.6 with 302 hp. Marauder also has a sport suspension, monotone exterior appearance, and 18-inch alloy wheels vs. 16s on other models. It comes with front bucket seats, center console, and floor shift. Other models have a front bench seat. All but the base GS have standard power-adjustable pedals. Also sharing this basic design and its 2003 revamp is the Lincoln Town Car. Grand Marquis performance and accommodations mirror those of similarly equipped Crown Victorias.

Maybe you should try a 2002 model with the antique steering design.

HTH

Porter


Erich Loepke

Im inclined to agree with the dealer technician here; the car is most likely performing as designed by FoMoCo. One thing we at the dealer are told (Im a Ford technician myself) is that we dont redesign vehicles in the field. Unless Ford has some sort of kit for sale to modify the car, it wont be done at the dealer level. One common complaint about the older Crown Vic/Grand Marquis/Town Car was the imprecise steering and mushy handling. Ford corrected this for 2003 with the rack and pinion steering gear and suspension changes. Unfortunately for you, this changed the car in a way you (and Im sure many others) didnt like. Its a shame, too since these cars are the ones we virtually never see come in for service because nothing ever seems to break!

I dont think there is any new or late model car out there that has fingertip power steering anymore. That only leaves one with choices like 1973 Buicks and such. The only downsides are high fuel cost and upkeep, and that can be a real problem. Until the buying public at large moves out of the Eurasian "sport sedans", the American makers will try to copy their ride and drive, and we all know what that means.

Al Smith

Densie,
Ive been following your thread hoping you would find an answer& Im sure we all share in the thought of a speedy & full recovery.
Im reminded of a situation (way) back in 1957. My dad had just bought a brand new Dodge wagon. One with the (then) cool black & yellow paint job. As memory serves it only took a few months for problems to start popping up. First one thing & then another. It got to the point the car was in the shop more than on the road.
When dear old dad asked for a different car or some other resolution to this delema, Mr. dealers answer was basically,"You bought it, you own it!"
Being a,"Dont get mad, get even" sort, good old dad took the wagon home, stopping on the way at the local lumberyard.
That weekend he showed up at the dealership with a 4x8 sign tied to the top of the wagon. It had a huge lemon in the center & the words," I bought this lemon from Spitzer Dodge." He then spent the day driving back & forth in front of the dealership. After 2 days of this & a little local TV coverage, Mr. dealer got dad into the office & asked what it would take to stop the parade.
He ended up having to buy back dads Chevy trade-in & cough up every penny he paid for the Dodge + the money he spent on the sign.
He then went out & bought a new 57 Chevy & swore he would never again own anything but a bowtie.
Not sure this is the answer to your problem but maybe you got a smile from it.
Good Luck, Al

densie


   Thats a good idea.  Then Ill take it back to the dealer and tell them that its too easy to steer and I dont get enough road feel.

  "Geez, I hit a big pothole and the steering wheel didnt even try to jump out of my hand.  Whats wrong with this car?"

-densie

densie


  It means that were back to the 1970s, when American carmakers started trying to build Japanese cars, and nearly drove themselves into bankruptcy.  Who can build Japanese cars better than the Japanese?  Who can build European sport sedans better than the Europeans?

   As a Ford tech, do you know if the pre-2003 steering box can be retrofitted to the 2004?  I looked underneath it and the front crossmember looks like an enormous aluminum thing, so it doesnt look encouraging, but that would be the best way to fix it.

-densie

Erich Loepke

Unfortunately, the frame was redesigned to accept the new front suspension. The aluminum #2 crossmember is bolt-on on your car, but is a welded in steel member on the previous models. Its not just the rack and pinion that makes a car "hard" to steer; its a combination of design features like increased caster angles, wider tires, variable assist power steering (VAPS), all designed for that BMW type driving feel, and which increase sport car-type handling and performance at the expense of creature comfort and ease of steering. If you want to experience poor power assist with a old-style steering gear, drive a late-model F-250 or 350 with a diesel engine. Itll make your Grand Marquis feel like a 70s car in comparison. Your idea of tying the VAPS solenoid to voltage to provide full assist is a valid idea, but will not increase low speed assist as the system is designed to provide that already. It merely decreases assist at higher speeds. The problem is the car was designed to perform the way it does, and the only thing left is to find a car that suits your preferences. I wish I could tell you different, but I cant. Short of replacing the entire frame with an older model, its not doable. And yes, modern car ride and drive isnt something Im totally fond of either. I just dont understand why American cars cant have their own identity instead of trying to be a copycat BMW, Lexus, Honda, etc. The auto enthusiast rags have a lot to do with this, but thats a different subject...

Now, its also possible the VAPS system is malfunctioning and the technician didnt take the time to check it out. However, Im an engine/manual trans/differential specialist, and thats a bit out of my area of expertise. Its possible to use a Ford scan tool while driving the car to verify proper VAPS function. Also, there are tools designed to test the steering pump output and be sure the pump is performing correctly. Id also find out what work was actually performed, or did the tech just drive the car and say it was normal?

densie


  I think that he at least plugged something into it.  There are some initials representing tests on the form that he gave me.  I dont have it with me right now or I would read them, but Im fairly certain that theyve done all theyre going to do (at least, under warranty coverage).

  I do have more ideas.  I have in mind a very simple device that attaches to the steering wheel and assists steering on fairly straight roads, but moves itself completely out of your way when the wheel has to be turned more than a few degrees.  Im not going to post a picture of it yet, because I may actually be able to patent it.

  Then the car has a rubber coupling under the dash, and a sliding tube, that connect the steering column to the linkage under the hood.  There is plenty of room in there to install a torque multiplier, if I can come up with one.  I noticed that the planetary gearests that come in these cheap winches are just about the right size and ratio to build one out of.  Ill try to remember to disable the airbag before I screw around with the column.  ;)

  So, I have lots of ideas and information here, which is why I created a post about a Ford, and Im sure that I can come up with something to solve the problem.  In the meantime, Im going to go and ask a question about a Cadillac.

Thanks to all

-densie

densie


  BTW, the PMS joke went right over my head.

Porter 21919

With the old type steering.

I know you bought new but surely they have nice low mileage trade ins, maybe they could set you up for a swap of some sort under the circumstance if the 2002 is acceptable or even more desirable.

A good low mileage 2002 is the same as a 2004 in 2006 with low mileage.

Seems like they have turned the car into a fullsize law enforcement Euro type RWD.

Believe it or not, or according to the auto pundits yours is better or more desirable.

Just a thought,

Porter