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Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bill Balkie 24172 on March 08, 2011, 09:19:38 AM

Title: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Bill Balkie 24172 on March 08, 2011, 09:19:38 AM
Hello,
     I have never purchased a car without a title , and my good sense tell me this is a bad idea . However there is a car for sale on Ebay located in Alabama . This car might  go as high as 40 to 50 thousand dollars .In the listing it says nothing about a Title . So  i E mailed the guy and asked him a few questions about the car , One of the questions was .. does the car come with a title , In his response he stated  No the car has no title . The car is to old and it is from Alabama.  I would not consider paying that much money for a car without a title  ... or am i missing something about the Alabama title system ?

Thanks ,
      Bill
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: TJ Hopland on March 08, 2011, 10:07:00 AM
I have been told that many states are tightening up their rules on titles so even those get a title for any car companies are starting to have issues.  Most states should have some sort of process for getting titles that I would use if there was a car that was that expensive.  Its not a simple process but involves a paper trail and a bonding process that protects you if someone produces the original title within a certain time period.  I have only explored title companies for borderline junk cars so its possible that they would offer a full service option for a high end car but it would seem to get pretty complicated dealing with various states and still seems like you could end up paying to defend your claim.   I may be wrong in thinking that if you do it with your state would be better but it just seems less likely that an individual would choose to fight a state vs. an individual.   

The way I understand the process at least in my state is that you take the car in to an approved appraisal service.  You then take that report and the car to a state inspector for them to agree that the appraisal is for that actual car and there is nothing suspicious about the ID numbers.   Once all that is done you get a bond for the appraised value for the required time period.   The cars information goes up on some national database that the state people (like law enforcement) can search so if someone reports a missing car they can see if its turned up in another state.  If it does not turn up on that list then you get a temporary title that allows you to license the car.   If no one claims ownership over 3 years? then they issue a regular title and its yours.  If someone makes a claim that is where the bond comes in.   The bond goes to you and in theory the car goes to the original owner.  Apparently at that time you can then try to make a deal with the original owner to 'buy' the car (with the bond money).    Obviously you would be out all the time and fees and any improvements you made along the way.    I dont know what sort of protection you get from a title service.       
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: okccadman on March 08, 2011, 10:21:27 AM
If the car is registered in Alabama, a notarized bill of sale from the registered owner will serve as a transferable title in other states is what I have been told.
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: R Schroeder on March 08, 2011, 10:27:56 AM
You didnt say what year it is , but this is from Alabama motor vehicle site.


What year model motor vehicles does the State of Alabama title?

Every 1975 and subsequent year model motor vehicle which is domiciled in Alabama and is required to be registered in Alabama is required to have an Alabama certificate of title. Travel trailers and folding and collapsible camping trailers designated as 1990 and subsequent year models also are required to have an Alabama certificate of title. Manufactured homes not more than 20 model years old are also required to be titled.

DEFINITIONS: The term motor vehicle shall include every automobile, motorcycle, mobile trailer, semitrailer, truck, truck tractor, trailer and other device that is self-propelled or drawn, in, upon, or by which any person or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a public highway except such as is moved by animal power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks. Every trailer coach and travel trailer manufactured upon a chassis or undercarriage as an integral part thereof drawn by a self-propelled vehicle.

Roy
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: 35-709 on March 08, 2011, 10:44:52 AM
I can add to this for New York State and Florida.  I have purchased 2 older cars from NYS over the not too distant past.  New York State did not have titles until sometime in the 1970s, maybe late '60s (someone here may know the exact year).  On both cars I purchased and had shipped to me here in Florida (both built prior to NYS titles) all I got is a "Transfer" stub, I also made sure to get a dated and signed Bill of Sale from the owner stating the Year, Make, and Model, and the VIN --- also the sale price.  In Florida you bring those items to your local DMV or "tag" office and request a title, in return you will get a form to fill out and be informed that the car must be visually inspected by certain qualified person such as a Florida law enforcement officer, or even just a DMV employee if you can get the car to their parking lot.  Otherwise the law enforcement officer will come to your home or wherever the car is kept.  This is to verify the information about the car, including the VIN, is correct.  You need to make sure you know where the VIN is and that it is visible.  If you opt to have a law enforcement officer inspect the car (I use the Sheriff's Dept.) just call them (not 911  ;D) and they will send out a deputy.  Once the car's information has been verified and the form signed by the deputy you return it to the DMV office, pay the sales tax and fees and they will send in your title application. You will get a Florida title back in a few weeks.   In Florida it is a pretty simple and painless process and I would not hesitate to buy a car without a title --- with due diligence of course.  If the car HAD a title and it as lost I would not buy it until and unless the seller can get a replacement.      
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: 76eldo on March 08, 2011, 11:45:38 AM
You should check with YOUR home state to see if they will accept a notarized bill of sale to issue a title for you.

Brian
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Jim Stamper on March 08, 2011, 12:23:24 PM

     New Jersey folk must buy New England non-titled cars regularly, check with your DMV, nothing is new to them.   Jim Stamper CLC#13470
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Eric S. Maypother #15104 on March 08, 2011, 07:53:11 PM
I'm in Massachusetts, last year I bought a 1992 Cadillac Brougham in Rhode Island, it had no title, seller said 1 wasn't needed in RI for car that old, he gave me a bill of sale and his old registration and I was able to register it and get a Mass title no problem.

Like others have said, check your states laws and requirements. I think as long as 1 wasn't needed from state you bought it from your OK with a bill of sale, or seller would have to get a title for it.

I know someone who buys junk cars sometimes and if for some reason he doesn't get a title or someone puts wrong name on it and it's a sell able car he sells them to a friend from a state that doesn't need a title. I think it New Hampshire or Vermont.
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Jim Beard on March 08, 2011, 11:02:06 PM
Here is a topic about that in Illinois where I live.   http://www.cadillaclasalleclub.org/forum/index.php/topic,113203.msg176404.html#msg176404
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: D.Yaros on March 09, 2011, 04:43:35 AM
I bought my '55 CDV from a guy in NY.  They have no title, rather a transferable registration.  It was acceped by the DMV here in WI, so I do now have a title.
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: TonyZappone #2624 on March 09, 2011, 07:03:30 AM
The first titles were issued in New York State in 1973.  Cars before that are sold on the "transferable" portion of the registration stub. 
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Joe on March 09, 2011, 06:00:49 PM
There's been a lot of hype and attention lately in all areas of the hobby about "BARN FINDS".  
Know what the difference between a "barn find" and a stolen car is?
A TITLE!
Joe Gibeault
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Pat MacPhail on March 10, 2011, 01:44:10 PM
You have to be careful that your state does not issue a new serial number for the vehicle. Can you imagine a Eldorado Brougham with a ugly new serial number tag riveted to the door jam?
I have seen this done on a valuable model of a Diamond T truck.
Cheers,Pat >:(
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: CEC #20099 on March 10, 2011, 06:35:46 PM
Pat, What state riveted on a new SN ??
c chleboun #20099
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Bill Refakis on March 10, 2011, 06:52:51 PM
every state has a seperate title procedure,here in ny all vehicles 72 and back were only issued tranfer stubs on the reg.
in my 59 biarritz project,i went state by state,and no 2 were alike,i even came across a re-vin 59 eldo,of course now corrected,as with "collector cars" anything and everything goes

the best thing you can do is determine the state of last registration,and run a dmv history thru that state,if the car is inactive in the files,and has no stolen car alarms,you should be ok
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Eric S. Maypother #15104 on March 10, 2011, 06:57:13 PM
I wouldn't think they would make a new vin unless the other was removed from the car, or it was pieced together.

I wonder if when they you apply for a title if they can check a national data base to see if car was reported stolen or just in the state your applying for title.

But suggesting a barn find could be a stolen car I guess someone could always have a vin from a rust bucket put on the newly acquired car. I see some states require the state police or a verified person to check vin's before you can register a car so hopefully they can spot something not looking right. I'm not trying to give anyone any ideas, just commenting.

But in the long run I'm sure the states are more interested in the extra revenue than stopping stolen cars, in Mass. titles are now $75, when I got my first Cadillac in 1984 you didn't even need a title for a car over 10 years old, of about 25 Cadillac's I've registered I think 4 or less were 10 years old or newer.
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: D.Yaros on March 11, 2011, 08:17:21 AM
CA riveted on a new VIN tag on the door jamb of our 92 Allante.
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: J. Weller on March 11, 2011, 08:29:42 AM
If you were looking to title it in NC, you would be looking at a long and painful process. I used a title company once, and they essentially get you to transfer ownership to them, then take a temporary registration in a state (like Maine) where vehicles over a certain age do not get titles. They then sign the back of the registration over to you and send it back to you.

When you take it to DMV, they send you away to produce bills of sale from the previous 2 owners. At this point you are in a predicament.

Also NC currently requires that any vehicle coming from out of state that's over 30 years old be inspected. The inspector is nearly impossible to catch up with.

I'd have to think very hard about purchasing another vehicle without a clear title. It can eventually be worked through, but unless you have lots of time and patience on your hands I don't advise it.
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Art Woody on March 11, 2011, 09:38:19 AM
Looks like you folks who live in Cal. or NC need to move to another state. Don't live and work, pay taxes, in a state that limits freedom. I you live in TN take your bill of sale for a car from a state that does not issue titles for certain age vehicles to your county court clerks office and they will issue a title in your name and in your mailbox in about a week. It's just a car, not nuclear bomb. It helps if the bill of sale is notarized whether from a dealer or not. I do this a couple times a year , as I attend swap meets in AL and GA. frequently. Art Woody
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Bill Refakis on March 11, 2011, 10:38:06 AM
tennessee,good ole tennesee,easy title state,as dealer,i recall the days when title mills would retitle 1000's of cars that would then surface with way less miles,heck,there were some towns that sent more cars to the auction each week than there were poeople in the town! (most of these guys were locked up a whileback)

on any car with a siqnificant value,its a good idea to have a history on it,for example,if 2 vehicles were around and titled with the same vin,who would own it?
if someone surfaced with an old document,and you have no chain of ownership,would they have a claim?

good idea to have a history

as a kid,i used to get a big kick out of all the 79 caddys from cleveland,tenn at the auction,12k miles,not an original tires to be found!
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Bill Refakis on March 11, 2011, 10:44:33 AM
last comment,you guys must realize that you can take a set of #'s from a build sheet,spend 150.00 get papers to it,insure and register it in may states,and BINGO!! you now have a valuable collector car!

with late models,you can do none of these things,with these "collector cars" anything and everything goes!

get the history,its part of the fun anyway!
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Art Woody on March 11, 2011, 11:39:40 AM
Here is some history on my '53 coupe I bought in GA with a bill of sale. Elvis gave this new car to this poor little girl selling lemonade at her stand in MS. Her parents then sold the car to Hank Sr. He died in the back seat. Then Hank Jr. took it to Moultrie, GA where I bought it. I have owned it for 7 yrs. TN has a title law, it's the other states without TITLE LAWS that make interesting stories. Also my formerly untitled coupe has the original warranty/purchasers card intact under the hood, oddly enough, Elvis must have bought it in someone elses name. I will give up my guns and my Cadiilacs when they pry my cold dead fingers away from them. Art Woody
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Mike Simmons 938 on March 11, 2011, 03:04:15 PM
My  experience 2-3 years ago with the NY-CA  connection was interesting. CA would not accept the signed registration and bill of sale from  NY on a pre-war car with no title. They strongly suggested that I should ask the seller to get another bill of sale (notarized) from whoever sold it to HIM, stating that there were no outstanding liens on the car. In other words, they really didn't care if the car was  stolen, just that any banks involved were protected. They finally settled, with lots of grumbling, for a notarized bill of sale stating no liens existed , from the gent who sold it to me.
As our country's recent history shows- we really take care of our friendly bankers.  Mike Simmons 938
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: TJ Hopland on March 11, 2011, 06:29:26 PM
After reading all of this it really makes you wonder why the feds have not got involved in this process.   Some of us that are trying to follow the rules our state has have to jump through so many hoops that often we just give up while other states it sounds like if you can fill out one form and your check to the state doesn't bounce you get a new title.   
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Greg McDonnell on March 12, 2011, 03:08:10 PM
In response to the original poster:  I am a resident of Alabama and am fortunate to have as a friend, our former Mobile County License Commissioner.  I called her about this very topic not long ago because my '66 Eldorado is for sale on the Internet (not Ebay).  An interested party contacted me recently and when the subject of a title came up, I explained that I did not have one for the car issued by the Alabama Dept. of Motor Vehicles.  He went into a tirade saying he would not THINK of purchasing a car with no title for as much money as my car's asking price is!  I tried my best to explain the law here in Alabama but it would do no good.  He bascially accused me of trying to sell a stolen Eldorado!  I told him to go find another car because he wasn't going to get mine!

The law regarding titles for old vehicles in Alabama is very clear.  Alabama does not issue titles on vehicles manufactured prior to model year 1975.  The license tag receipt that I keep in my glovebox is the legal document the Alabama Dept. of Motor Vehicles issued me as proof of ownership. It contains a description of the car including the VIN.  You would need to chedk with your local DMV to see what they would require from you to register and title the car in your state.  According to my friend, all state DMV offices should have a current book indicating what other states do and do not provide and/or require in the way of titles/paperwork.  Depending upon your state, a signed and witnessed bill of sale and the current tag receipt from the seller in Alabama should be enough to register the car.

Greg McDonnell
Mobile, AL
CLC #20841
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Jeff Maltby 4194 on March 12, 2011, 03:50:58 PM
In calif back in the 90's, it we used the Dmv "Verification of Vehicle" form. A peace officer would come out to inspect-fill out the form=good to register.
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Art Woody on March 12, 2011, 06:22:39 PM
Greg, not all vintage cars in Al or GA for sale are licensed or driveable. Many are projects from 30 or 50 yrs ago, that have changed hands many times without being restored or registered. It is still legal to sell these cars. A car like yours with copies of up to date registration and proof of ownership w/notarized bill of sale, should fly through licensing in most states. All states are aware of the title situation in AL & GA, they just handle them differently.
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Greg McDonnell on March 12, 2011, 10:22:31 PM
I agree, Woody,  That is what was so frustrating for me-trying to explain to this guy on the phone that I could not provide something I did not (and was never going to) have.  He kept saying how did he know I wasn't trying to sell a stolen Eldorado!  Thjat's when I lost it and told him to go find another car.

After this disturbing conversation with the irate old car collector, I decided to contact my friend who is the former license commissioner for Mobile County, where I live here in Alabama.  I wanted to know what I should say in the future should I encounter another fool who wouldn't believe me.  She explained to me that regardless of how rude and accusatory the caller had been, all I needed to do was keep repeating to him, "Alabama does not issue titles for vehicles manufactured prior to 1975.  My tag receipt is the legal document you will receive from me if you buy the car.  If you'd like to verify this, please contact any DMV office in Alabama!" Of course, Alabama did issue titles to the original purchaser of the vehicle if it was bought, say in 1964, here in Alabama.  But as far as titles issued for old cars brought into the state (which is the case with mine), they do not issue them if the car was manufactured in '74 or before.  I asked why and she said as far as she knew, the reason was to cut down on the number of titled vehicles in the state DMV's computer data base.
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Doug Lemon on March 13, 2011, 04:56:25 AM
One point that I have not seen here is that you can not sell a car to an overseas buyer as US customs will not let a car go overseas without a valid title.I have a friend that has 2 cars sitting in Colorado without titles  and she can't get them to Australia without them.It is common knowledge in shipping circles here,,,no title  no shipping.
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: TJ Hopland on March 13, 2011, 09:44:40 AM
So for overseas you then hire one of those title service places to go to a state like Alabama and get a title?

It would really seem stupid if my state makes me go through the whole inspection bonding waiting process but if I first went to a state that gives em away no problem.  I guess it is government so we should not try to apply logic.
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Fred Zwicker #23106 on March 13, 2011, 10:14:31 AM
Maybe if negotiating for an out-of-state purchase it might be a good idea to first contact the local registrar in your state and ask about the necessity of a title from the state you are buying from.  Some states require simply a signed (or notarized) title - others do not, so this should be clarified as well. Doing this in advance might save a lot of headaches later.

The only problem is if you ask three different registrars in your area you might get three different answers.  I live in Ohio and find that the small town registrars are easier to deal with than the ones in the larger cities.  Usually one registrar employee asks another and if you are lucky, someone there will have some knowledge of the title rules for out-of-state antique cars.

I once bought a 1964 Cadillac Fleetwood at Carlisle, PA our neighboring state.  The car had a clear PA title and there was a notary on duty at the Carlisle show.  Unfortunately something was signed in the wrong place on the title and it took 2 weeks to locate the PA notary and another 2 or 3 weeks of frustration to get everything corrected.  Luckily nothing got lost in the mail.

Three or four years ago, my son bought a 1937 Ford from one of our company suppliers that was previously owned by his deceased father-in-law.   This car also had a good PA title, but the Youngstown registrar insisted that it had to be signed by the owner. Since the owner died a year prior, we were at a standoff.  My son took a death certificate and other paperwork to the Ohio registrar, who kept insisting that the title must be signed by the deceased owner.  After 4 or 5 trips back and forth, he finally took the paperwork to a small-town registrar and everything finally worked out in the end.

As as result (before purchasing a car) the first question I now ask is if it has a title and I then ask the seller to fax me a front and rear copy of the title in advance. If  a legitimate deal, seller will not object to this.  The time to do this is PRIOR to transferring funds, as later it becomes a mess.  Until reading these posts, I was not aware of non-title states, but I would want to do some serious advance checking prior to making a purchase.  There are plenty of cars for sale with good titles so as not to waste time on questionable deals. So my policy is if no title, I lose interest quickly.

I always wondered if a car was purchased without a title and a $100,000 restoration was completed and then the real owner showed up with title to the car, who owns the car?  

Fred
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: TJ Hopland on March 13, 2011, 10:23:37 AM
QuoteI always wondered if a car was purchased without a title and a $100,000 restoration was completed and then the real owner showed up with title to the car, who owns the car?  Fred

That is my question also.  This is where the long bonding process my state has makes sense but if you can get a valid title from other states then transfer it to my state it would then seem to be a valid title so there could then be 2 titles.  I wonder if my state has a 'footnote' that still requires the bond / inspection if it comes from one of those easy states?
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Art Woody on March 13, 2011, 11:50:03 AM
You can't take a car to AL and get a title, AL doesn't issue titles to pre '75 vehicles. If you are buying a stolen vehicle for $10 or $100,000 the car still belongs to the person it was stolen from or the insurance co. if it applies. If the person investing $100,000 in the restoration can't produce some sort of registration or bill of sale where he purchased the car with correct vin. then stay away. You also want to check the person out, usually they won't just pop up with a $100,000 car for sale. $100,000 cars have a long paper trail and the people selling or buying them for that matter have a reputation. DMV can check vin's to see if it has been reported stolen. There are many rust free, never any rust anywhere cars in AL and GA. registered and licensed for sale just like Greg's. Also there are thousands of good project cars  and motorcycles there that are sold on bill of sale every year. Like I said, I buy about 2 a year and register them and get clean TN titles without one coming back as stolen.  A well known local drug dealer in my town showed up with a $100,000+ '57 Bel Air conv. and when the seller deposited the cash, the feds confiscated the drug money and the car. So seller beware.
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Greg McDonnell on March 13, 2011, 06:06:39 PM
I know the ownership of my car back to the day it was purchased new on November 15, 1965 from the dealership in Stillwater, MN.  In the car's file is the MN title along with the bill of sale I received from the fellow I purchased it from.  Because AL doesn't issue titles for pre-1975 manufactured vehicles, it precludes me from getting an Alabama title.  Not a big deal to me whatsoever! Yet in no way does not having an Alabama title make the car any "less legal".  It is currently (and will remain so until I sell it or die) registered to me with the car's VIN and description clearly noted on the vintage license tag receipt.  For someone to simply pass on my (or anyone else's) car because it happens to be located in a non-title state for cars of its' vintage would be terribly short sighted in my opinion.  As has been mentioned, a notarized bill of sale, a close-up photograph of the vin on the frame, the tag receipt with the car's VIN printed, or any other means of proving the car has legitimate ownership and actually is the car stated in the bill of sale should be more than enough to register the car in any of our 50 glorious states.  Selling the car abroad may indeed pose problems when it reaches the port to be loaded in a container.  I was referring to the DMVs in other states in my previous post.

Greg McDonnell
#20841
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: TJ Hopland on March 13, 2011, 09:42:22 PM
Greg is covered because he apparently has a fairly complete paper trail that includes a title, I dont see anything wrong with that whole picture.   

Now just for an example (not related to Greg or his car) lets change the story a bit......   

Lets say the car was in my family, it was in my parents garage for many years not driven so it was not in the best apparent condition. We are not really a close family and we are spread across the world so 'us kids' dont really know the day to day goings on back home.   One day when one of the parents is still alive a nice young fellow comes to the door and offers to take that old car away and gives mom who may not be 100% in the mental department a nice story and she lets him take it with no title.   This guy turns out to be a 'pro' and comes up with a good back story and sells the car with a bill of sale that's information is totally fake.  The buyer does not really dig that deep because its not a particularly valuable car so there is not a lot of money involved, he likes and wants the car because its just like the one his dad had when he was younger.  Question is could the buyer get this registered in many states?  None of us kids really notice the car being gone and assume that perhaps dad sold it or whatever.  Later after both parents have passed and their estate is legally under my control and I have the title to the car.  Later I notice a car that looks just like dads on the cover of a magazine that has won awards at a show after being fully restored. I somehow find out that it is indeed the car and Im not a very nice guy and need money for my gambling habit.  I have a 'good' title for the car and perhaps the other guy has it legally registered in his state based on what now can be concluded was a fake bill of sale.  Lets say several states now have documentation linking this bill of sale to a person that was convicted of fraud?   What happens now?  Im not telling, Im asking?   Sure not every deal would be like this but to me it does not seen that unlikely that something like this could or has happened.

IF the car in question had any significant value, say a 59 eldo both the buyer and the new state would likely do some research but if it was just a ho hum 4 door sedan is anyone going to really look that close?

   
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Fred Zwicker #23106 on March 13, 2011, 10:18:23 PM
TJ Hopland has figured out what could happen, and undoubtedly this has happened more than most of us want to admit. (Nice analysis).

We have a small car museum at work and I have gradually been purchasing cars during the current "buyer's market".  At a late November auction at the IX-Center in Cleveland was a very original (barn find) late 29s or early 30s Stutz rumble-seat roadster (see attached picture).  It was solid and complete and i would have loved to have purchased the car.  I was registered for the auction and had funds set aside for such a purchase.  However the car was without a title and was being sold on that basis, with the story that the auctioneer was trying to work out the paperwork with the family later - it may have been a part of an estate, but I don't remember all of the details. 

The car sold in the high 40s and it really hurt for me to pass up this car. Thinking it over later, had no regrets, as I felt that such a purchase was risky. In addition, assume that most of the collectors of a Stutz would know the whereabouts of most all of these models and it would undoubtedly be known that I had purchased the car.  It would be difficult for me to even think about doing a 1-2 year restoration under these circumstances.  I guess as we get older we get more cautious.

Bottom Line - For me I won't even consider looking at a car until I am assured that it has a proper title and I will want to see front and rear copies of the title in advance. Buying an antique car in a no-title state might be possible under certain circumstances, but only after doing plenty of research prior to making the purchase to be sure that I can obtain an Ohio title.

Those of us who live in some of the "difficult" states will understand this.  It is not difficult to spend days, weeks and months (hopefully not years) to work through the process in certain states.

Fred

Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Jay Friedman on March 14, 2011, 09:35:57 AM
As noted in Art Woody's posts, my state, Georgia, does not issue titles for cars built prior to 1965.  Unlike Alabama, which did issue titles for cars of that vintage when they were sold new but won't issue title for old cars brought into the state now, Georgia was a non-title state until 1965 (only registration with a transfer box on the reg. form) so cars older than that were never titled here. 

I have inquired several times over the years to the relevant authorities about the reason why I can't obtain a Georgia title for my 2 pre-1965 cars, since I bought both in "title" states (CA and IL), with the previous owner's title issued in their state signed over to me and notarized.  Each time, I got the same reply that "a title is not REQUIRED for a pre-1965 car in Georgia".  I answered in each case that I as an owner wanted a title and could not understand from the reply to whom the word "required" applied; that is, if the state did not "require" it, I as the owner certainly did.  In each case, from different employees, it was just repeated in a mechanical way that I could not have a title, leading me to conclude that they just didn't want to do it, for no particular reason, and that they were instructed to reply to such queries using the verb "require" in that odd way.

Interesting that I can't ship a car overseas without a title, since I have gotten inquiries about one from an guy in Australia.  I wonder if the previous owner's title signed over to me would suffice for that purpose?
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: TJ Hopland on March 14, 2011, 10:22:26 AM
This must be the site I was told about when I inquired about getting a title in my state.   This is apparently where they check for history and note that a new title was issued.

http://www.vehiclehistory.gov/index.html

 
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: CEC #20099 on March 14, 2011, 08:13:57 PM
TJ Hopland ; Guess which state of the 48 IS NOT participating in the NMVTIS -- ILLINOIS. Which state is corrupt from top to bottom -- ILLINOIS. Which state wasted 6 Mo. of my time issuing a title, on a car titled & purchased from an adjoining state  -- ILLINOIS. Which state can`t find my daughter`s stolen 2004 Sebring -- ILLINOIS. And you guys think you have problems; I live here !!
CE Chleboun #20099
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: TJ Hopland on March 15, 2011, 08:40:09 AM
Doesnt IL have some unique law when it comes to stolen and recovered cars that they cant easily be re sold in the state?   I remember being told once that most of the low end used car lots in our area do all their shopping there because the locals cant bid on them. 
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: CEC #20099 on March 15, 2011, 10:08:11 AM
TJ Hopland: I haven`t heard about that , in IL. Most stolen cars are by chop shops in the South suburbs of Chgo, furnishing parts to order to some body shops. Rest go to S America. Police treat this as an insurance issue, & can`t be bothered. Corruption ??
C Chleboun #20099
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Jim Stamper on March 15, 2011, 02:35:06 PM

     I just wanted to say, this non-title state business may not be the end of the road. No matter what state you live in there are others in your state who have the same problem. Start a movement for titling older cars. Talk it up in clubs. Call or mail your Director of Motor Vehicles and point out this previously untapped revenue source by of titling antique cars. Get a legislator on your side to introduce a bill requiring titling of old cars. That means the DMV will have to provide the service if you are successful.

     It may just be up to the Director and a new revenue source, and possibly a petition with a few hundred names, may work wonders.

     We didn't have them here in NH and now we do. Same in Mass. I like to think my several polite calls to the Director a few times a year pointing out the short comings of being a non-titled antique car state helped. No lender will make a loan on a non-titled car, certainly not if he is out of state, or the title is not in your name. People in titled states tend to look at people in non-titled states as second class, perhaps not trustworthy. The reasons go on. Get busy and change it.
                                                                   Jim Stamper, CLC#13470
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Greg McDonnell on March 15, 2011, 09:16:28 PM
Jim,

Your suggestions are well taken.  I will pass them along to my friend who, for years before retiring, was the License Commissioner for the county in which I live in Alabama (Mobile).  I will see what her thought on the possible success (or failure of my efforts might be!

I would think a lender of funds would be aware of different states's laws regarding titles and would keep an open mind if the car has a paper trail and a title remaining with it from the state where it resided prior to being purchased by the person in the non-title state.  As I mentioned in a previous post, the tag receipt is our legal document that "replaces" a title for vehicles manufactured prior to 1975.

Greg McDonnell
#20841
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Brian Daum on March 22, 2011, 06:57:44 PM
Quote from: TJ Hopland on March 13, 2011, 09:44:40 AM
So for overseas you then hire one of those title service places to go to a state like Alabama and get a title?

It would really seem stupid if my state makes me go through the whole inspection bonding waiting process but if I first went to a state that gives em away no problem.  I guess it is government so we should not try to apply logic.

You can export a vehicle with a registration card just as well as any title. US Customs checks up on the VIN if the car is stolen. All registration cards or titles are stamped by US Customs as legally exported. Strange thing is that US Customs records go back further than DMV/Police - there have been cases where vehicles reported stolen did not show with DMV on a VIN check - but did show with US Customs and was blocked at the port.
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: maddiecaddy on March 22, 2011, 07:19:16 PM
Tell you what, guys... just send ALL of your untitled Cads to me here in Michigan and I'll sort it out :-)
JIM ADAMS
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on March 22, 2011, 09:41:48 PM
Brian,
VERY true. They are mostly concerned about stolen vehicles.

Jim,
I'll take the ones on the west coast.

I can't believe the amount of ignorance & paranoia that the general public has on this title issue! And more than I expected on this board. I think the comment that all "barn find" cars without titles are stolen surprises me the most.
Bob
Title: Re: Buying a car without a title
Post by: mrspeedyt on March 23, 2011, 02:03:04 AM
arizona is a title state. one can go thru the process and get a 'bonded' title if needed. cost me about $100.00 total to title an old jeep cj3a.