How to tear down and reassemble a Cadillac/Lasalle transmission in 2 hours Hambs

[Jeff Maltby 4194]

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185196

[markl]

Jeff,
Needless to say, I'll be printing this entire post out to guide me when I go through my 37.  Read through to the end, and I don't see a reply to the question about the P/N for the sealed bearing.  Does anyone reading this have any idea which bearing he is using?

Mark Lowery, CLC#25216

[Jeff Maltby 4194]

Working on it Mark. I'll be back :<)

[william_b_noble]

so this job brings up a question - about 25 years ago, I had the trans for my 36 series 60 overhauled - I still haven't finished the car - I noticed that the output shaft was hard to turn, felt like an overloaded bearing (all bearings are supposedly new) - the tail of the trans was bolted on with silcone RTV as a sealant instead of a gasket - could this overload the bearing or should I take it apart and look for some thing else?  I'm reluctant to just run it with too high a preload, that will just brinell the bearing and I'll have to fix it again

[Bob Hoffmann CLC#96]

William,
Your transmission is completely different from the 37 & up style. The  transmission was used from 1934 to 1936 on the small series cars only. Check your shop manual for instructions or ask a question on the board.
HTH, Bob

[John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.]

Jeff,

Great job. I printed the whole article out.

Now just a word of caution, the 1937 transmission, the top shifter is different. I had to fabricate a special tool to get the transmission gears out (thanks to the forum members for their advice). The shaft is also smaller than the 1938 up, if you are rebuilding a 1937 it is different, one year only.

The Johnny

[markl]

John,
As the owner of a 37 LaSalle, I am about to embark on the transmission rebuild and wonder if you could give a general description of the tool you fabricated.  Also, where did you purchase your bearings, bushings and seals?  Was the tranny to bell-housing gasket issue more than the absence of the hole for the shift rod to extend into the BH?  I saved my old one, and if so, I think I'll just cut one to fit from gasket material.

Mark Lowery, CLC#25216

[John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.]

Mark,

I would suggest "Northwest Transmission Parts", they have the small parts kit that has all the stuff you need, they also have bearings. Good group to work with. (phone: 937+442-2811)

The gasket for the top shifter, the cone that goes over the shifting arm, had a gasket originally. I was able to find a "O" ring that worked, other wise it leaks.

I can send you a picture, once I take one, but first do a search "1937 LaSalle/Cadillac Transmission Help", the folks helped me figure out how to make these two tools.

Your shop manual should show it "J-806 and I think J-1010.

[Jeff Maltby 4194]

What lubes the front splines if a sealed bearing is used @ the case ?

[John Washburn CLC 1067 Sadly deceased.]

Jeff,

Good talking to you today.

As to your question, while the bearing (original one) is not sealed it has:

Gasket, Clutch connecting gear retainer (20.0375 group number)

which fits into:

Retainer on Clutch connection gear for bearing (20.0362 group number)

The gasket and retainer seal the bearing, so no fluid comes forward. One does not want to lubricate the splines since they run to the clutch into the flywheel (into another bronze bearing). If fluid flowed to the spine it would spash the clutch plate making it not work very well.

So if one uses a sealed bearing, which, I guess would not allow the 90 W oil to flow into the spline life would be good.

As always if I am wrong, beat me  like a dog.


the Johnny

[Jay Friedman]

That posting is great with beutiful photos. 

The roller bearings and the sealed front bearing can be bought from Northwest Transmissions 800-327-1955 or Olcar Bearings 910-693-3324.  A word of caution: I have run into front bearings just like the one needed which are either double-sealed or sealed at the back of the bearing.  These are not suitable since you want the transmission's gear oil to lubricate the bearing, so make sure it is a bearing whose seal is on the front of the bearing.

The gasket set can be bought from Northwest or Olson's Gaskets 360-871-1207 for about $20 or occasionally on ebay for even less.

[harry s]

John, Do you recall the size or where you got the o-ring for the 1937 transmission shift stick? I called Northwest Transmissions and they were not familiar with that seal. The MPB shows a cork seal, but doesn't give any detail as to size, where it fits, etc. Thanks, Harry

[Tom Beaver]

What the article doesn't say is how to install the shifter shafts with balls, spring and pin inside the case, because they were smart and didn't remove them I guess.  In my experience this is the most difficult part of the job unless you have a special tool.  The factory manual lists one J-1168.  I have never seen the factory tool but after I got tired of trying to find where in the shop the errant ball check went to after ricocheting off of half the equipment in the place I made a tool to do the job.  It made the job so much easier that I don't know why I never tried it before.  If anyone is interested I can describe this tool,  and how to use it.

Tom Beaver

[Steve Passmore]

What the article doesn't say is how to install the shifter shafts with balls, spring and pin inside the case, because they were smart and didn't remove them I guess.  In my experience this is the most difficult part of the job unless you have a special tool.

Tom Beaver

I thought that was a little strange too. On the floor change box of 37 you cant get the shafts out without removing the selectors first.

[Jay Friedman]

Tom,

As you wrote, if you are smart you won't remove the shifter shafts and the ball and springs that prevent a '38-'53 column shift transmission from being in 2 gears at once.  I also have attempted this in the past, only to have the spring cause all the little parts to fly all over the shop when I didn't succeed.  Like you, I made a tool to facilitate the installation, in my case by modifying a door handle clip remover.  Though pretty crude, it was relatively easy to make and works OK.  Jack Hoffman designed and made a more elegant version that works better, which is shown in an engineering drawing in the December 2000 issue of the Self Starter.  As you also mentioned, the official GM tool for this purpose is Kent-Moore tool J-1168-1.  It is no longer sold but, fortunately, Brad Ipsen had a copy made using a worn out original as a model.  Brad lent me his, which I used as a model to have one made by machinist friend.  It is based on a 3/8 inch (1 cm.) steel rod bought in a hardware store and took my friend about 15 minutes to make using a bending machine is his shop.  If you send me your snail mail address, I'll mail you photocopies of all  these tools.  Can you post on this web site or send me a photocopy of your tool, as I'd be interested in seeing it?  Thanks,

Jay

[Tom Beaver]

Jay,
The attached photos show the tool I made out of a piece of 3/32 bar stock.  The forked end slips over the sliding tube at the 2nd/3rd end and the other end with the ball detent captures the spring loaded ball at the 1st/reverse end.  The tool is just thin enough to allow the 1st/reverse selector shaft to fit in place.  Once everything is in place just pry the tool outward with a small screwdriver.

Tom Beaver

[Jay Friedman]

Tom,

Great tool.  I'm going to try and make one for myself. 

One question: is that a '38 transmission in the photo or a '39 and later?  As I understand it, the '38 had a slightly different set-up for the shifter shafts, spring and ball mechanism.

Jay

[Tom Beaver]

Jay,

The case in the photo is a 39, I had other issues with the 38 case.  The 38 gears and tail shaft housing fit the 39 case without issue.  If I remember correctly, the stop mechanism which prevents the transmission from being in two gears at once on the 38 is a slightly different design than the one on the 39.  However, the tool works ok with it.

Tom Beaver

[Andrew Pullin]

I did my sideshifter transmission out of my '40 recently, and that guide was quite useful. I even thought of retaking some of the pictures, but I didn't have an assistant, and didn't want to get my camera dirty!
Northwest Transmission sells kits of the bearings, O-rings, thrust washers, and seals for $215 or thereabouts.
The O-rings were a bit of a tight fit, and they ended up extruding off the shaft as I put it in.

As Jay pointed out, you don't want to use a double sealed front bearing.
The alternative that I'm going to try out is to use a double-sealed front bearing, but remove the rear seal, so the bearing will be part of the oil bath. Then I'm going to seal around the side of the bearing with some hylomar or aviation gasket sealant.
I'm fairly sure this is the one that I used, but please double check measurements before ordering:
http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/PROD/Kit9776

With respect to that shifter tool: Jay was nice enough to lend me his tool for it. After trying it 100 times, I got the hang of it, and could now do it all day and night long. But, your little mini tool looks like it's even better suited for the job.

But, I swear, there is something that I don't understand properly about these snap rings. There are rings that are cut like this, like a solid ring that was split at an angle, so there's an inward slope on one end, and an outward slope on the other.

Those are impossible to get on and off. I got some of thos ring pliers with the the waffle-end on them, but they just slide off, due to the angle. I must be doing something wrong. I desperately searched around to find a source for a snap ring in the same size , but of the type with the ears w/ holes in them. No luck.