I bought a 1984 Biarritz Convertible...whats the value?

[Cadillac Slim]

I stumbled across a 1984 Eldorado Biarritz Convertible at what seemed to be a great price.  I currently own a 38 Lasalle, a 47 Fastback, a 60 Coupe, & a 66 Coupe & a friend of mine lead me to this car stored in a warehouse thinking I would love to add it to my collection.  Not knowing much about what I consider "Newer Stuff" I made an offer out of good faith & the owner accepted.  Trouble is I do not really need another car.  How desirable are these cars & what is a realistic price tag?  Do they have any real collectors interests?  Just trying to figure out what I have before I make any moves.  The car is in all original condition & everything works.  I'm guessing it has 134k mileage & the car runs & drives like a Cadillac should.  Any info would be great!

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

My advice is to stay away. The HT 4100 engine is the single worst V-8 the division ever produced. It's problems are legendary throughout the automotive world. Although there are a few cases where they gave long trouble free service, those are the exception.

[Greg Powers]

Unfortunately without some pictures and further details a price is hard to pin down. This is a highly desirable car by those whose enjoy this classic body style and are looking for a convertible (assuming the engine isn't blown). There is an article in the January 2012 about a beautiful white 1984 Eldorado convertible (the car of his dreams) which proves that there is a market for these cars. Please post some pictures and additional information before Spring (the best season to sell a convertible in most markets. - Greg 

[76eldo]

It really depends on the service history of the car.

Why do you think it's not 34,000?

Maybe the engine has been replaced or rebuilt.  If it has 134K on it and it's the original engine that has some serious impact on the value.

If you look at completed sales on ebay, not current bids or asking prices, you will get a feel for what they are going for.  It really depends on the overall condition and colors as far as the value.

Also, is it a Biarritz?  It should have a sticker on the driver's door edge and it will have ASC listed as the conversion, The Biarritz has the diamond tufted seats and a wide band of chrome on the fenders, doors and around the top opening with snaps for the boot.  That's 99 percent what you have.  It could also be a Hess & Eisenhardt, and those typically were NOT Biarritz's and have slightly different tops and belt line modifications.  There would be a Hess & Eisenhardt sticker on the driver's door.

The 84 and 84 are essentially the same.  85's have finned valve covers, 84's are smooth.  Other than that, they are identical.
Only 2300 were made in each model year.

As a guess, and just my opinion, mint ones are going for around $10-to 12 with low mileage.  If the car is really super clean, but has 134K on it, I would only go about $5000.00.  $3500 to $4000 would actually be better.

If the HT4100 is running fine, that's great, but at any time you could encounter an intake manifold leak that can allow coolant into the oil and ruin the bearings quickly.  You could encounter the gear on the back of the cam wearing down and allowing the distributor to jump timing, and and a host of other problems.  They don't have tons of power to begin with and if it's 134K, take it on a long drive, at least 20 minutes and pull some hills with it to check for excessive pinging.  Be forewarned, a new Jasper engine is available with all of the updates and mods, but in order to honor the warranty it has to be professionally installed along with a new radiator and oil cooler lines, and that will run $4000 to $6000 depending on labor cost.  There are NO easily swapped engines like a different Cadillac engine or Olds 350.  It's been done, but it's a lot of work.

I've had a bunch of these cars and I know a lot about them. I have enough NOS chrome to re-do a whole car from bumper to bumper, and I love the look of these cars.

When I found my 1980 Hess & Eisenhardt Eldorado Convertible with the 368 iron Cadillac engine, I lost interest in any other 79 to 85 Eldo.

Ask the present owner how often he has changed the coolant and if he has been using the GM pellets with the coolant.  If he doesn't know what you are referring to immediately, the car has not had some crucial attention.  Still, not ALL of the 4100's were bad and it could give you many more miles.

If you email me at 76eldo@comcast.net I will send you my phone number if you have any other questions.

Good Luck,

Brian

[Cadillac Slim]

Here is a photo.  I am guessing on the mileage but highly doubt it only has 34k just based on wear & tear.  It is definitely a Biarritz.  I found the original window sticker in the trunk & it sold for 34k new out the door.  It is a one owner California car.  The owner told me he always had the dealership work on the car & reported no major overhauls.  The car had been sitting for 5 years.  The paint is showing signs of minor oxidation as typical to cars from the 80's that were painted Red.  There are a few minor door dings in the body.  The carpet has a few stains.  The brightwork & chrome are in great shape.  Overall I would say its a nice driver.  Maybe 6-7 original car that would take very little work to get further.

[76eldo]

Beautiful car.  Are those the ultra rare aluminum factory spoke wheels?  If they have an aluminum finish they are quite rare.  If they are steel and chrome plated they are aftermarket, but super nice wheels.

Enjoy your new ride!

Brian

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

6 years ago the oil returns became clogged on my '83 Fleetwood Brougham. The repair necessitated removal of the intake and heads in order to clear them. This engine always had the best of care and always had the coolant fushed regularly and oil changes done religiously and never had any problems but the clogged returns resulted in major valve cover leakage. My tech broke a chunk of the engine block off when he tried to remove the intake bolts- the steel bolts having galvanized themselves to the aluminum block. Cost thousands for a new Jasper engine and installation. I'm so buried in the car now that I'd be lucky to break even if I lived to 90.

The 4100 is a dreadful problem child that will only get worse as time goes on- they're incredibly resistant to having work done to them and equally complex to remove and reinstall. The combination of aluminum with steel parts turned the simplest of tasks into a nightmare for my mech- even after literally emptying cans of WD-40 and all other kinds of penetrants on bolts to be removed and soaked for weeks. I've had dozens of 4100s and even at their best are anemic while yielding mileage that is only marginally better than their cast iron counterparts. If I had to have an 80s Biarritz convertible, I would only consider a conversion done of a '79-'81. The 5.7/6.0 liter is infinitely better, more serviceable and far better performing than any 4100 could ever hope to be and far more marketable as a result. Furthermore, the metric 4 speed transmission to which the 4100 is mated is nowhere near a durable as the old 3-speed hydromatic of the "real" engined cars.

Slim: Do yourself a favor and put your money towards a Cadillac with a real engine.

Incidentally- all factory 84/85 Eldorado convertibles are Biarritzes. "L67" in VIN 

[76eldo]

Eric,

That's certainly a nightmare story on your '83.

Hess & Eisenhardt did built a limited amount of Eldo's up to 85 that were not Biarritz's.  They pop up on ebay from time to time.

I bought a black 85 in '02 with a "totally rebuilt engine, dome by the best mechanic in town".  I got the car for a fair price and it was black with red interior, which I love.  I drove it home from Rhode Island to Philly and loved the car.  My wife took it to work one day after i had the car a few weeks.  After dinner I went outside to wash it, and there was a gigantic puddle of coolant on the driveway.  I filled the radiator, started it up and saw a coolant leak coming from one of the heads.  At least it was an external leak.

After pulling the heads we found that the head gasket was completely shot and that the engine could not have been "totally rebuilt" at any time in the recent past.

After some investigating we found an auto parts store/machine shop not too far away and the guy that ran the shop used to work for a large scale rebuilder and was very familiar with the 4100.

We gave him the job, and he rebuilt the engine and it was great.  Total cost with new radiator was about $3000.00, but I did the R and R.  Photos below.

I found a black 76 Eldo convert with red interior shortly after and bought that and sold the 85.

I have what I think is the ultimate with my 80 Eldo convert in black and red.  I paid a lot for it, but it's a real runner and only has 72K on it.  I also have a red and white 85 Biarritz convert that is basically in storage.  115K and still runs great, never been apart.

I love the 85's but won't touch another 4100, just my opinion.

Brian

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

I have what I think is the ultimate with my 80 Eldo convert in black and red.  I paid a lot for it, but it's a real runner and only has 72K on it.  I also have a red and white 85 Biarritz convert that is basically in storage.  115K and still runs great, never been apart.

I love the 85's but won't touch another 4100, just my opinion.

Brian

You sure do have the ultimate 3rd gen Eldorado. And it will have the best potential for long term appreciation should the time come that you need to sell it. Plus you'll sleep a lot better during the interim.

I was referring to "L67" VIN # cars- not H&E conversions which would carry the normal "L47" designation.

The 4100 was the single worst black eye to Cadillac's proud heritage and wouldn't touch one except to flip.

[76eldo]

I will say that the ASC (Factory) cars are a little nicer inside and have a better top mechanism, plus I like the Biarritz trim.

The ultimate would be to get an 85 Biarritz, get a 1980 Eldo parts car, remove all of the 368 Eldo specific stuff, then build up a 472 or 500 and stuff it in there with the 80 trans.

That would be a true factory Cadillac Hot Rod and I would leave the HT4100 badging on it.

Just might do this to my 85...

Brian

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

It seems logical that a fully blessed GM EBZ Conv would have a better degree of fit and finish than an aftermarket conversion. IIRC- the "real" GM/ASC  droptops also had special mods to the frame/chassis- not sure if it was the case for the H&E jobs.

At any rate, Cadillac eliminated the "HT 4100" plaque from the front fenders on all models beginning with the 1984 model year- as if the division was ashamed to annotate its existance. So you'll not have to worry about it either way on any L67 Eldorado. (84/85)

Aye, that would be the way to do it- but I just hope you would be able to find a way of keeping the "MPG" display working properly on the dash. 

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

After pulling the heads we found that the head gasket was completely shot and that the engine could not have been "totally rebuilt" at any time in the recent past.
Brian 

Boy, that is the worst "un-blown" Head Gasket I have ever seen.

Bruce.

[Cadillac Slim]

All the info has been great.  I did find a American Sunroof build sheet in the trunk.  The car was built at the GM Assembly Division in Linden, New Jersey, Shipped to American Sun Roof in Lansing, Michigan, & charged to Rector Cadillac in Burlingame, California.  Order No. E095A1.  Unfortunately the paper is torn & not everything is reable.  The wheels were a PG9 Wire Wheel Option & do appear to be Aluminum.  It doesnt appear that this car is missing much option wise.  Being that I am so used to the older stuff it has been neat driving this car & seeing how things progressed.  There really isnt much on the car that isn't power.  Top, Door Locks, Seats, Antenna, Trunk, Mirrors....The list just seems to go on & on.  I have been impressed that many of todays luxury cars have the same ammenities.  As interested as I've become in the last week, your notations about the motor worry me & with 4 Cadillacs already I do not need a potential (& from the sounds of it expensive) major repair.  Your advice has been well taken & is very appreciative.  I will put it out for sale at $6,500 & see what happens.  I will post the final sale price once its sold.

Thanks again.....Cadillac slim

[76eldo]

Slim,

Please email me at 76eldo@comcast.net.
I'd like to talk to you about those wheels.

Brian

[Richardonly]

The "AutoTraderonLine" has most of these cars at a much higher asking price than $6500.00.  Take a look............................................
http://www.autotraderclassics.com/find/vehicle/vehicleSearchResults.xhtml?conversationId=155005&firstRecord=1&numRecords=25&distance=0&address=&startYear=1984&endYear=1985&minPrice=&maxPrice=&make=Cadillac&model=Eldorado&keywords=&refined=true

[Cadillac Slim]

Based on the mileage & the advice given here, I think $6,500 is a fair price.  The average Ebay selling price was 6750 - 7250.  NADA has Low in the 5's & average in the 8's.  I'm sure if someone wanted to invest some time & little money this car could easily pull higher numbers.  I just do not have the time as my focus is on my 47 Fastback.  I just do not want to sit on it & would be very happy to pass the car on at a fair price.  Maybe I will try eBay with a low reserve & see whre it goes.  All of your help is appreciated.

[Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621]

These days $6,500 buys very little in a collector car, let alone a presentable and functional Cadillac convertible and you should have little difficulty recouping your investment. Spend some time and get the car looking as good as possible with a good polishing of the body, chrome and interior detail. Take lots of high res pics - without shadows and consider the background environment. Don't forget the trunk and engine. Presentation is everything.

Don't be discouraged if it doesn't do the money you want the first time- it is winter. But should you decide to relist, I'd wait a month or so. Definitely a high flash car for the money which should go in your favour. OCPG puts a #3 '84 EBZ conv at $10,800 which is a bit optimistic but again $6,500 is a very realistic figure all things considered.  Good luck. 

[EldoradoRedd1]

I'm so glad i kept my '80 Eldawg, the 4100 is jus "PITIFUL" . The 368 is simple, & affordable to work on. As fine as a car the 81-85 Eldawgs were jus under powered...aluminum-metal=


S.Rhame

[Richardonly]

Morning,

Is this the engine that ran on 8, then 6 and then 4 cylinders?  Not familiar with the 4100 at all, but from what everyone is writing, I certainly would stay away from it.  This has been educational. 

Thank you, Richard

[TJ Hopland]

The 8-6-4 was the standard Cadillac engine in 1981.   It was the cylinder de activation like they are messing with now.   It went on the 6.0L 368 cuin all cast iron engine that was derived from the 425/500/472 family.  It had DEFI which was what became the TBI system that GM used on lots of stuff including the trucks.   1980 was the same engine but without the deactivation.  In the Eldo's it had DEFI the other cars had a 4bbl carb.   The DEFI also went on the 4100 and later the 4.5.  The 8-6-4 engine was supposed to 'last' unitl 1984 when the 'new downsized' cars came out with the transverse engines and the 4100.   They had enough problems with the 8-6-4 and enough people didnt like them that they rushed the 4100 into production without the usual testing.  Also didnt help that the cars were still too big for that small of an engine.   The new cars were also delayed due to transmission issues.   Basically consumers did all the extended testing on the HT4100 the first couple of years and the cars were too big for it.   Thats what gave it such a bad rap.