need help on wiring 41 60 special

[mr41cadillac]

the next time someone tells me , quote I can do it all, im going to flee quickly. heres the story. I now have my 41 60 special installed with totally rebuilt engine and transmission. the expert I hired to rewire my engine compartment has rewired and hooked up and has the headlights fog turn brake dash lights working. he has walked leaving 3 wires hanging that he claims go to the generator . he claimed he was unsure about how they go to the voltage regulator and relay. now he want more money to bring in someone he claims knows more that him . I think I can finish with some good advice. ive got too much in this rebuild to risk doing damage so im on hold  any advice is appreciated. thanks john   

[joeceretti]

Is it a complete harness or wired one at a time by the "expert?" The voltage regulator and relay should be the same as about 500,000 or more other GM cars. If he really doesn't know how to do it you probably should have someone, not connected with the expert, look at it. If it's all right then it is very simple to connect. I'd hate to see something fried or worse a car fire.

Typically the regulator would have terminal markings on it. There will be a field, a gen and a batt terminal. Sometimes marked F, A and B. Your generator should have F and A stamped on the metal casing. The other wire is battery which generally connects through the ammeter on the dash and then the other line from the ammeter goes to a terminal on the starter solenoid. The F wire can be 16ga no problem (I used 14) as it doesn't handle much current but the A must be at least 10ga as it handles all the charging current (I used 8ga).  Normally with the terminals on the regulator facing downward from left to right is BAT, GEN and FIELD. I think you should also connect a ground wire to the mounting screw, not sure if the 1941 had this, without seeing the diagram, but a good solid connection to ground at this point is important.

I DO NOT have a wiring diagram for the 1941 model year, only for 37, 38, 39 and 40. I doubt the charging wiring is really any different.

Do you have the 1941 wiring diagram you can send me so I can confirm what I am telling you is correct? If you do, joe@ceretti.com

DISCONNECT THE BATTERY BEFORE YOU DO ANY OF THIS! Thought I should add that in capitals.

One last point, your generator may need to be polarized to charge properly with a positive ground system.

[mr41cadillac]

thanks joe I will look for those markings today. I think there a wiring diagram in the shop manual if I can see it s tiny print but know how I can send it.

[mr41cadillac]

this was not a factory harness. joe I took the voltage reg. off its marked bat gen and f. the generator is marked f and a. so I assume I hook up the f from regulator to f on genearator,  and gen on regulator to 2 wires , one from generator marked a and one starter relay ? is the box next to regulator the starter relay ?

[J. Gomez]

Folks,

You can find the 1941 wiring diagram at the MCLC document section;

http://www.modifiedcadillac.org/documents/Shop_Manuals_and_Illus_Catalogs/1941%20Shop%20Manual/tn/41%20Shop%20Manual%20-%2071.jpg.html

If the new wiring hardness has the correct color code as per the original OEM it should be straight forward in hooking up both. However just as a precaution trace or check continuity between both ends of each wire against the diagram.

Good luck..!

[Steve Passmore]

[quote
is the box next to regulator the starter relay ?
[/quote]

John, I think the little box you mention is the horn relay. the starter relay is actually on the starter.

I always build my own looms and tag every wire. I feel for you if this guy built this loom but didn't convince himself where his own wires should go.

[joeceretti]

A on the generator goes to GEN. F goes to F.  Bat goes to the same lug that runs from the positive terminal on the battery to the starter. The relay you are asking about is the horn relay. The wiring diagram should show you the horn relay wiring which is independent of the generator circuit.

[joeceretti]

I looked at the wiring diagram, I apologize, it does show a separate starter relay! Please, disregard my post about the routing of the wires, the diagram shows how they should be connected. I don't understand the diagram actually, shouldn't a relay have three connections?!??!

[J. Gomez]

I don't understand the diagram actually, shouldn't a relay have three connections?!??!

Joe,

It does the wiring diagram just shows the path of the relay coil not the path to/from the contacts. This one shows the complete diagram of the starter circuit.

http://www.modifiedcadillac.org/documents/Shop_Manuals_and_Illus_Catalogs/1941%20Shop%20Manual/tn/41%20Shop%20Manual%20-%2077.jpg.html

[Steve Passmore]

Don.t beat yourself up Joe, all the wiring diagrams show the starter relay as separate but it is in fact located on the top of the starter solenoid for these cars, yours too.  It only shows two wires because its charged by the main battery cable making that the third.
The small box next to the voltage regulator on the 41 is still horn relay.

[Bill Ingler #7799]

Hi John: What a bummer to leave you with wires hanging and walk away. As has been suggested, get your self a wiring diagram, a continuity light and if it was my car I would trace each wire with the continuity light and diagram to make sure each wire is connected properly before I would leave power connected for any length of time. Below is a picture of the wire hook up for the starter solenoid. The picture is a 47 solenoid but same as 41 only the two 16 gage posts on a 41 are on the side of the solenoid rather than what you see in this 47 solenoid. You will notice the yellow 10 gage red tracer wire is hooked to the battery terminal of the solenoid. This wire will go to the ammeter on the dash then on out and hook to B (battery) on your positive ground voltage regulator post. The yellow 16 gage Red trace wire goes to the starter button and the yellow 16 gage green cross wire goes to the G (generator) post on the regulator. Don`t know what color wire was used to make your wire harness but this gives you and idea of where some wire start and end.

As has been pointed out, the small relay beside the regulator is the horn relay. You will have 3 wires to that relay. One wire should be 16 gage an usually will be black. That comes from the ground connection under your horn button and will be connected to the S post on the relay. A 10 gage and should be black and is connected to the H post on the relay and goes from the relay to each of your horns. The 3rd wire is also 10 gage and usually black, connected to the B post of the relay and that is the power wire from the battery.

The connections to the generator have been covered in previous posts. Remember that your 41 is a positive ground electrical system and before you ever start your car. Flash( polarize) the generator to make sure the generator and battery are both in sync.     Bill

[mr41cadillac]

thanks bill. iguess some of the confusion was from the shop manual showing a separate starter relay that ive been looking for. now that that's clarifies im going to attempt to follow and connect some wires. im sure I will have some more problems and questions. my wires were not a factory harness but this guy ripped em out and matched them only making them longer but he didn't lable anything and confused himself. im a total novice on wiring but now can learn some things.

[mr41cadillac]

I forgot to say that he left the wires on the starter and engine will turn over. he  also my horn relay has 3 connections but are not labeled like the voltage regulator.

[Bill Ingler #7799]

John: Picture below is the horn relay. The 10 gage power wire from the generator goes on the middle post. The other 10 gage wire, which goes out to the horns, goes on the right post. The 16 gage ground wire, to the horn button, goes on the left post. Hope this helps    Bill

[joeceretti]

Still trying to wrap my head around why they would show it separate. The wiring diagram for the 38 series shows it correctly. See attached snip from the schematic.

[Bill Ingler #7799]

Hi Joe: The 41 wiring diagram below is not that much different than yours and shows the starter solenoid the same as your diagram. In fact I like yours better as it shows your electrical system has a positive ground but nothing too show the polarity on the 41 diagram.   Bill 

[Brad Ipsen CLC #737]

Another safety suggestion here.  After getting the wires all connected as you think they should be, do not hook up the battery to the system.  Hook up a temporary jumper wire with a 30 amp fuse from the battery post to the main battery wire.  Test every circuit by operating it with this set up except the starter.  If there is any problem it will blow the fuse instead of melting the insulation on some buried wire in the loom someplace.  This works on everything except the starter.  Test that last after hooking up the battery without the temporary fuse.  These kinds of things are learned by experience.  Luckily it was not a Cadillac. 

[joeceretti]

I see now there is another schematic. This is the one I looked at and what confused me.

http://www.modifiedcadillac.org/documents/Shop_Manuals_and_Illus_Catalogs/1941%20Shop%20Manual/41%20Shop%20Manual%20-%2071.jpg

[Steve Passmore]

They show them separately Joe because they were available as separate item.     A lot of English cars (and American I guess)  actually have them in a different place.

[joeceretti]

Thanks Steve. Now I get it. Yes, about being a separate item. The ubiquitous Ford starter relay, being so readily available and inexpensive has been used on many things more than cars.