How many different timming covers 63-67

[Ken Perry]

How many different timming covers are there for 63-64-65-66-67 ?? And what are the differences ? Any help appreciated. Ken Perry

[Scot Minesinger]

there was an article in self starter about the surprising differences between the 64-67 429 engines.  This info would be included.  Cannot remember when it was, but within the last 5 years or so. 

[Bobby B]

Ken,
   Maybe March, 2000 issue……
                                     Bob

[Chris McBride]

The articles mentioned are probably Mr. Rick Gruwez's "The Cadillac 429 Engine".  The Self-Starter published his work in two parts in July and August of 2003.

The article notes that "(t)he front cover is a whole different story.  Four different covers were used between 1964 and 1967.  Most of the differences lie in the way the oil filter is attached to the front cover.  In any event, when you go shopping for a 429 front cover - remember, they are hard to find - make sure you get the correct one for your application."

He notes the following part numbers
1964 -  3632472
1965 -  3632591
1966 -  3632841
1967 -  3533012

The 1965 commercial chassis would use the 1964 timing cover.

HTH

Chris McBride

[Chris McBride]

I forgot to mention my anecdotal belief that the 1963 390 cover and the 1964 cover may be interchangeable although the 1964 has a different gear set for the oil pump.

Mr. Edge, Mr. Austin, or others with more direct knowledge can probably either confirm or deny.

Chris McBride

[cadillactim]

A 64 front cover can be used on a 63, the only difference is the 64 had larger oil pump gears.

The 65 cover is unique to itself because of distributor to oil pump drive rod connection (a hex head instead of a slit on 66-67).

The 66-67 covers are interchangeable with one minor modification. The fuel filter mounting bracket on the oil filler tube is in a different position because of the different intake manifolds. However, if you are not using the factory fuel filter set-up, no modifications are necessary. If using original fuel filter, then either switch out the oil filler tube, or modify a bracket for the fuel filter.

Tim

[russ austin]

The 63 and 64 timing covers are interchangeable. The 64 has larger oil pump gears.
65 and up have the timing tab on the other side, due to the different radiator design. 64 has a down flow radiator, with the inlet/outlet tube on the same side.  65 and up changed to a cross flow, where the inlet is on one side, while the outlet is on the other. This moved the water pump outlet to the other side. The hose would cover the timing tab, so it was moved to the other side.

You can put a 65 and up timing cover on a 63/64, but you need the later year water pump, harmonic balancer, distributor? 

[TJ Hopland]

I assume the problem is the oil pump?   Can it be bushed like they do with the Buick's?   

[russ austin]

Have heard of companies sleeving the oil pump.  Unless the pump looks like it was chewing on rocks, the oil pump is tolerant to scratches  & gouges.

The problems with oil psi are usually in the bearings & rocker arm assembly.

[TJ Hopland]

So if the oil pumps are not really a problem then why do the covers seem to be replaced fairly often?

[cadillactim]

With the covers being made of aluminum, they are susceptible to damage from electrolysis from the antifreeze. I have seen water passages badly corroded because of this (although that can often be repaired). Sometimes the large bolts will corrode and seize into the bolt passages in the aluminum and the cover ends up being broken to remove it. Other times the water pump bolts will break off and if not properly removed will damage the cover. And other problem is a bad water pump with a wobbly pulley can gouge the cover with its propeller.

A lot of talk is about the oil pump scratches and loss of pressure. I have removed a lot of covers and only have seen one that was damaged enough to adversely affect oil pressure. Many are scared when they see the scratches in the oil pump cavity. But minor scratches are not affecting oil pressure. The bottom plate is more critical, and scratches there can usually be sanded off. What will affect the oil pressure is using a gasket on that plate that is too thick. I have seen some gaskets in kits that are too thick, had it happen to me once. That bottom gasket should be paper thin in order to have good oil pressure from the pump.

Many covers can be repaired, and don't have to be replaced.

Tim

[russ austin]

The design flaw in the timing cover is the oil pump drive gear.. Its not supported at the base plate, causing the gear to go off center, wearing the shaft hole.
High end race engines have the gear supported by a stud in the base plate. 

Was chatting with an old timer, and he had machined a base plate, and new oil pump gear shaft.

[TJ Hopland]

Did Buick go to that design about the same time as Cadillac?   I know they didn't ever change it with the longitudinal engines.   I can't recall what the oil pump looked like with the transverse engines, I would assume they changed it at least slightly when the did the transverse modifications.   At the end I think it was around the crank which seems like it became the norm around 2000 ish.   

[Ken Perry]

Thank you all, for the info ! Ken Perry

[David Greenburg]

Hey Ken:

If it would be helpful, I probably have those issues of the Self Starter in my "archives."

[Jason Edge]

A lot of talk is about the oil pump scratches and loss of pressure. I have removed a lot of covers and only have seen one that was damaged enough to adversely affect oil pressure. Many are scared when they see the scratches in the oil pump cavity. But minor scratches are not affecting oil pressure. The bottom plate is more critical, and scratches there can usually be sanded off. What will affect the oil pressure is using a gasket on that plate that is too thick. I have seen some gaskets in kits that are too thick, had it happen to me once. That bottom gasket should be paper thin in order to have good oil pressure from the pump.

Many covers can be repaired, and don't have to be replaced.

Tim

Tim is 100% correct.  As far as the oil pump cavity, minor scratching is not going to significantly degrade oil pressure, however, stacking thick gaskets on the bottom plate can and will.  In my 18 years selling parts for these two years, on at least 2 occasions (one within the last month) have brought in a 1963 390 cover and the customer had the cavity honed out to fit the 1964 429 gears.   In terms of other damage, these front covers often get damaged because people try to drill out broken bolts free handed and slip and gouge into the aluminum.  Most good machine shops can weld in new aluminum and put new thread sleeves in place where they have been gouged out by loose drill bits. I spent an extra $50 at the machine shop on one such front cover this past year that had two significant issues where the small 1/4" water pump bolts attach and had broken and repairs had been previously attempted.