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1964 Cadillac neutral safety switch, I need one

Started by kokerscad, October 07, 2016, 09:50:21 PM

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kokerscad

So today the car would not start after I got gas, wouldn't crank at all, figured it was the starter, replaced that after that fiasco of trying to find one, but I jumped the wires at the safety switch and it started. So now, where do you find a neutral safety switch for these cars? I don't feel like spending $350 on an NOS one so there has to be something else available somewhere, what is your ideas?

1964 Cadillac Fleetwoods and eldorados came standard with Buick Turbo 400 trans not the regular  Hydramatic of 62 series and deville
Therefore there is an adapter plate to mount to engine,
Now trying to find a starter for this car means headaches, no starters come up for 64 cads, and if they do they have two mounting holes, not 3 for T400s
Online forum stated I needed to look at the parts store for a 1970 GMC truck
Low and behold Advanced Auto Parts had one in stock for $53 bucks $15 core
It is exactly what I needed, so the forum "modified Cadillacs " helped out significantly
1965 Cadillac redesigned the trans to fit the motor and eliminated the adaptor as the T400 became standard equipment
C.Dias CLC#27578
1965 DeVille convertible
1964 Fleetwood 60

savemy67

Hello Cole,

If I recall correctly, there are four neutral safety switches for '64 Cadillacs.  Which switch depends on which transmission the car has (TH400 or Hydramatic) and which steering column (tilt or tilt/telescopic).  The most difficult to find seems to be the switch for a TH400, tilt/telescopic equipped Cadillac.  I have seen prices from under $100 (used, condition questionable) to over $500 (NOS).  I have also seen a couple of rebuilt switches that failed on first use.  In a pinch, a switch from a '65 Cadillac will work.

Are you certain your switch is broken, or is it out of adjustment?  If the switch is still installed, does the vacuum parking brake release work?

Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

kokerscad

Yes, from what I gather I need NSS 653, Well the car does not crank when it is plugged in, right now I jumped the two wires for it, and yes the parking release still works, if I need to adjust it or what not, I have no idea how to do it,
I have tilt wheel and T400
C.Dias CLC#27578
1965 DeVille convertible
1964 Fleetwood 60

Chris McBride

#3
These are some 'cut and pastes" from prior postings the 63-64 clubs and references to the easier to find #688 switch for the 65-66 next model years.

The neutral safety switch, back-up light switch and parking brake manual are combined in one unit mounted on the steering column under the instrument panel.  The neutral safety switch is located at the base of the steering column, near the firewall. It is located on the upper surface of the column. There is a long screw that holds it in place. There is enough leeway in the mounting hole so as to allow adjustment of the switch. It slides around the outside perimeter of the column, maybe 3/4 inch of play. If the mounting screw gets loose, the switch can slide around, throwing off the adjustments for neutral safety, reverse lights, and automatic brake release.

Internally, there is a plastic tab that is moved when you select gear positions. The tab moves a slider inside the switch to operate the functions.

The switch may be out of place, or the tab may be broken off (mine was). It is relatively easy to remove and inspect, and to adjust. If broken, it may be repairable, or you can search the junkyards for a spare.

***

the NSS is reputedly difficult to obtain and expensive.  They occasionally surface on E-Bay.  See the suggestion below for using the 65-66 switch.  You may wish to search the archives for additional messages since i recall that this topic occurred rather frequently.  Many of the comments lamented the cost

Also, Mr. Edge previously posted the following which might be of some interest since one may apparently use a different model switch in some instances

Part #        Setup                          Year:
#650     non-tilt Hydramatic                   64
#651     tilt Hydramatic                          64
#652     non-tilt Turbo Hydramatic          64
#653     tilt Turbo Hydramatic                 64
#560     all models                                 60-63

The 3 digits are stamped on the NSS

However,  a 1963 (with the 390/Hydramatic) comes with the #560 NSS and the 1964  (with 429's) with the Hydramatics (62 series, 75 series or CC ) come with either the 650 or the 651 NSS.

The full part number starts with 1993 (eg. 199-3650). I just re-verified with Master Parts book.

Source:  Jason Edge

Possible Replacement:

I just read something interesting in the Yahoo Cadillac Chat group. A guy with a 64 Cad tilt column car couldn't find a replacement #653 Neutral Safety Switch but he did locate a #688 for a 65-66 Cad tilt column. It was cheap, so he tried it.  It worked after he ground 1/16 inch off the end of part that goes into the column. The backup lights, brake release and start in neutral/park all work. Good to know for future reference.

***

I have a 64 with tilt, and installed a #688 without grinding anything and paid $18.00 on E-bay for it. It is still in the car works fine. Good Luck,

***

Well, I have been lucky because all the switches I have rebuilt had large pieces - usually the switch plastic section simply broke in two.

If you wind up with a small piece that’s missing that doesn't have any contacts on it, I suppose you could mix up some "potting" kind of epoxy and fill it in, then when it hardens smooth it down so the epoxy doesn't interfere with the movement of the switch parts.

For a potting type epoxy I would recommend 3M270 â€" it’s the "potting version" of the 3M420.

* * *

Like I mentioned in a post last year about the NSS - You probably better make an appointment with your friendly chiropractor after working on these little devils! It’s brutal!

I suggested that you might want to get a friend to help you remove the front seat assembly. I'm serious!  Besides it gives you a chance to snoop around and do some things - like clean and lube the seat transmission assembly.

The seat mounts are 4 bolts on all four corners and a couple of electrical connectors - not that difficult to do and when removed get a pillow for your head, lie down, and its a snap !
Enjoy !

***

The manual also discusses "adjustment" but (unfortunately ) seemingly only in regard to the neutral safety aspect:


1. Loosen mounting screws on switch.

2. Place transmission shift lever in NEUTRAL position.

3. Adjust switch until engine starts in NEUTRAL position.

4. Tighten mounting screws and test for operation.

a. Engine should start in PARK and NEUTRAL positions only.

b. Back-up lights should operate when transmission shift lever is placed in REVERSE position.

c. Parking brake should release in any drive range with engine running.


Hope this helps and good luck!

Chris McBride








kokerscad

So the inner lip tab broke off, so it doesn't slide correctly
C.Dias CLC#27578
1965 DeVille convertible
1964 Fleetwood 60

savemy67

Hello Cole,

Do you have a shop manual for your '64?  If not, I recommend you purchase one.  It will have the NSS adjustment procedure along with much other useful information.

You might be able to repair your NSS.  The broken lip allows the slider to rock to the side - instead of staying upright in the switch - thereby probably breaking electrical contact.  Find a piece of thin aluminum (flashing, drip edge) and cut a strip about 3/16" - 1/4" wide, and as long as your broken lip.  Epoxy the strip in place in such a way as to prevent the slider from rocking, but allowing the slider to slide freely.  This may or may not work, but what have you got to lose at this point.  Consider yourself lucky that the slider is not broken, as this seems to be the problem with many of the broken NSSs from '64s.

Respectfully submitted,
Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

kokerscad

Thanks Chris, yes I have a shop manual, I also ordered a 1965 NSS #688, it is supposed to be the same one for my car with T400 and tilt, if it don't work than I can just repair mine the way you said
C.Dias CLC#27578
1965 DeVille convertible
1964 Fleetwood 60

savemy67

Hello Cole,

The NSS from a '65 will work, but it is not exactly the same as the '64 switch 653.  Some people who have used a '65 NSS in a '64 have either shaved a hair off the length of the slider, or used washers between the switch bracket and the steering column to raise the switch a hair.  Others have not modified the '65 switch and have not had problems.  Just be aware that the '65 and '64 switches are not identical.

Christopher WInter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

kokerscad

Thanks Chris, yes I've read about that, so I will see how it all plays out when I receive the part
C.Dias CLC#27578
1965 DeVille convertible
1964 Fleetwood 60