1967 Eldorado Vinyl Roof Replacement & More!

[The Tassie Devil(le)]

Congratulations on getting it towards completion.

With your 3D skills, you will soon be able to create a better gauge mount so that the bottom left corner will be totally clear of your right knee, in the event of an unfortunate crash.

Bruce.

[67_Eldo]

Thanks!

The final gauge cluster will, I hope, be mounted completely inside the (former) ash-tray area. I'm working on a "Rolodex" idea in which I could rotate the less-important gauges (voltage, O2 mix) in and out of view to save vertical space. But that's a complicated endeavor that I may not ultimately care for anyway.

Perhaps a setup using mirrors? :-) We'll see.

[67_Eldo]

We last discussed the newly bent "fuzzy" strips fabricated for the Quarter Windows (QWs). With those in hand, I simply clamped them to the originals and used the oldies as guides to drill holes in the new copies. Then I used the small, countersunk screws to re-attach the fuzzies to the sheet metal, making sure the screw heads were well-buried in the fuzzy material. We don't want metal screw heads making contact with our precious, oddly shaped tempered glass!

In picture 103b, we see the passenger-side fuzzy in place. We also see my red outline around a piece that, as far as I can tell, isn't mentioned in any of the Cadillac/Fisher Body material. It, however, is important in that, if you remove it, removing and replacing the QWs becomes much easier. If you haven't already done so, remove the little strip of headliner-stapling material along the top of Piece X (as I labeled it) and then remove the four little bolts that hold Piece X in.

Pictures 104 and 105 are from the manuals. They provide the most helpful exploded views of how the QWs are structured. But notice that my own Piece X is not depicted in either of these diagrams. Removing Piece X gives you a clear shot at accessing all these other parts.

Picture 106 is of the pertinent, fundamental pieces discussed in this log entry. (This post covers only the replacement of the glass-holding framework and the glass itself. The next step will be to add the power-window mechanism and motor. Stay tuned!) The "rail" at the top of the pic is what I call the "channel." The nylon guides run through this piece. The "rail" just beneath the channel I call the "sash." It is the gutter that holds and guides the bottom of the glass piece. Then you have the glass itself with the bracket still attached.

As a reminder of how the parts were originally situated, pictures 107 and 108 show the quarter panel as it was before I completely disassembled it way back in 2017. Although you can see the motor and a bit of the cranking mechanism, the important things to look at are the positions of the mounting bolts for the channel (the top rail) and the sash (the rail below the channel). Those positions are our goals!

Picture 109 is another view of the mysterious Piece X. It serves as a reminder to get it out of the way.

Picture 110 depicts both QWs along with the roller kit that I got from eBay. There are more pieces in this kit than I need because Fisher Body used the same pieces for other cars (such as the Pontiac GTO). Since the Eldorado's QWs are relatively puny, they apparently don't need as many guides as the larger windows on other cars. It is hard to tell from this pic, but two of the old nylon guides on my windows are completely gone. Also, the old weatherstripping is all there, but it is quite stiff.

So. How does one turn these crazy nuts, allowing the brackets to be released from the glass? This was a task that I thought would be easy but turned out to be not easy. I found a small scrap of thich sheet metal and drilled two holes though it in such a way that the screws would fit into the holes in those glass nuts. Then I tried to use my new tool to turn the nuts. But after 51 years in place, those nuts *really* didn't want to turn. I bent my new tool all to heck trying to budge the old hardware. No luck, as you can see in picture 111b.

[67_Eldo]

It was time to go pro (picture 112) so I got an "adjustable pin wrench" (with the dark-blue handle) from Harbor Freight to see if it could break the glass nuts loose. The pin wrench was a good idea, but it kept popping out of the holes in the nuts. By applying pressure very carefully and very slowly, I got nothing but a couple of skinned knuckles when the pin wrench popped out of the holes and let my fingers whack the edge of some nearby surface. If only the pins had little hooks on their ends ...

The next step was to try a "pipe" wrench (with the red handle). I gripped the circumference of the very narrow glass nut right up against the glass so I was once again motivated to move slowly and carefully. After another long siege, I finally was able to turn a glass nut. Yay! But only one. None of the other three nuts were willing to budge.

Finally, I turned to the world's best tool: vice grips. I locked the circular section of my "needle-nose" grips around the circular nut and, very slowly but with as much torque as I could muster, applied pressure. It took a while but I was able to remove the remaining three glass nuts. I was reminded that, if one values one's time, son't mess with other tools. Go directly to the vice grips!

As long as I was replacing old hardware, I might as well replace the leading-edge weatherstripping (picture 113). This was a breeze compared to removing the glass nuts. All I did was place a QW in my lap and begin "working" the old weatherstrip like clay or putty. Wiggling it back and forth as I moved up and down the length of the strip, I gradually broke it loose from the chrome channel in which it runs. Once it feels free throughout its length, then simply slide the rubber blade out of the bottom of the metal channel.

I then cleaned out the weatherstripping groove, applied some soapy dishwater to the track of the rubber (as quick-vanishing lubricant), and slid the new rubber into place.

In picture 114, you see the scrubbed (with soap and baking soda) QWs with the new weatherstripping in place. I installed the new nylon and rubber pieces from the kit with the pin wrench because I didn't want to over-tighten anything. The QWs were ready to put back into place!

At this point, I really diverge from the process laid out in the Fisher Body manual. But as I mentioned earlier, the advice (on this subject) in the manuals simply made little sense to me. So here goes.

The first thing I'd put back into the body is the sash. It served as my safety net since the lowest edge of the glass travels within its groove. As you can see, I worked the sash through the opening in the lock panel. This photo is incomplete, however. Just after I pushed the sash though this opening, I should have looped the lower hole in the "support" (labeled with "Z" in picture 104 and "11.012" in picture 105) over the rear stud (visible here in the top-left corner of the photo). As it turned out, I forgot the "support" during the initial installation and had to go back later, after everything was in place, and wiggle the "support" into place.

Line up the front stud of the sash with the hole in the lock panel and the rear stud with the hole in the inner-rear sheet metal of the quarter panel. Loosely attach the nuts to hold the sash in place. Picture 116 depicts this from above (at an odd angle), with "support" "Z" visible in the lower-left corner of the photo. I put "support" inside quotation marks because it isn't apparent to me what that piece supports.

Picture 117 shows the next piece I'd recommend installing: the channel. Once you wiggle that through the lock-panel opening and figure out generally how it attaches to the sheet metal, grab the QW, drop it a short ways though the window opening (with the top of the QW glass pointing toward the car's interior, inside of the drip rail), feed the nylon guides into the channel slot, carefully fit the studs on the channel through their mounting holes in the sheet metal, and loosely attach the three nuts that hold the channel in place. Make sure the bottom of the glass is either sitting inside the sash or will drop into the sash when the channel is lowered.

I have no pictures of the delicate glass-installation process because I had no hands remaining to hold a camera. It can be frustrating trying to balance all these pieces in place while trying to fit the studs into the appropriate holes. Remain calm, firm, and steady!

At this point, something in my lower back popped. So I figured I'd stop working on the car, sit down in a comfy chair, and write this up.

The QWs are now in place ... sort of. There's still the rest of the motorized (in my case) mechanism and lots of adjusting to do. As soon as I figure that out, you'll be the first to know! :-)

[DeVille68]

nice! Glad you did not damage your window glass.

[67_Eldo]

Progress is slow. My back "popped" twice in a span of less than two months, so that moderated my enthusiasm for wiggling around for a while. But life must go on so ...

The quarter windows remain unadjusted and motorless. But that's OK because now I can at least slide them into whatever position I want and cruise.

I had not taken into account all the time it would take to clean up all the window trim pieces. After years of vinyl-top and paint shenanigans, there was quite a bit of left over butyl, body putty, and paint to scrape away. Then I snapped and sealed the various layers of drip-rail and weatherstrip-retaining trim into place. That was so easy (and I was so lazy) that I didn't take pictures of that process.

I did, however, take pictures when I took everything apart and those were life savers. One of those old pics (118) shows the screw and bracket that secures the end of the window weatherstripping. When installing the new weatherstripping, replacing this bracket is a booger because there's no hole or marking on the weatherstrip rubber itself. You have to stick a pointy object through the rubber and feel around until you locate the screw hole. Then you have to blindly run the screw (with the bracket on it) through the rubber and find the hole. It isn't as easy as it sounds.

When replacing the weatherstripping, the manual recommends  squeezing the adhesive (pic 119) into the outer groove of the weatherstripping channel and then working the rubber into place. I did that on the driver's side but the problem is that, unless your adhesive-application skills are perfect, some of the goopy adhesive will drip out of the channel (which is above you) and onto your lap or head or whatever. Eeeewwww.

So on the passenger side, I dug out some syringes (pic 120) that I bought to do things like painting gauges or micro-oiling or other small, liquid tasks. I loaded the syringe with the adhesive (which is pretty runny), and injected adhesive to weatherstripping I'd already worked into place (pic 121). Since not much adhesive seems to be necessary, I think this (pic 122) is a better way to do the job than the original recommended technique.

When I got done with the weatherstripping, I had a seal that fit right up to the door-window glass on both sides for the first time in a year. Yay!

My last task for the day was to get the door-beltline trim piece ready to be reinstalled. The front rubber/plastic guide that keeps the window from rattling around had broken off. Alas, I could not find another piece like it. So I printed one up using nylon (pic 123). It seems to be flexible enough to work. I removed the remnants of the original piece from around the small pop rivet by melting the old rubber/plastic with a soldering iron. I wanted to leave the pop rivet in place to use as an anchor for the new piece (pic 124). I cut a "J" shape into the new piece with a Dremel so I could slide the new piece around the old rivet (pic 125).

I applied a bit of silicone sealant to the new piece (for a bit of additional attachment insurance), and slid the new nylon onto the beltline trim. It fit as I expected.

The next step, which hopefully takes place tomorrow, is putting the trim piece back onto the door. It is sort of tricky because you don't have much room to work the attachment screws past the narrow window slot. But it can be done!

[DeVille68]

Cool idea printing your own slider for the glass!

[67_Eldo]

Thanks!

In those photos I have the new slider mounted backward. I finally found another beltline trim piece to compare and the slider was oriented in the opposite direction.

More than that, though, is the fact that the internals of my driver's-side door are slightly misaligned. The front part of the window glass is too close to the exterior skin. This means that the slider (at its full size) won't fit between the external sheet metal and the window-raising mechanism, forcing the window to stop one-half inch shy of its fully closed position.

To allow the window to fit, I ground most of the 3D-printed slider away to provide clearance for the window-raising mechanism. That's the nice thing about printing one's own parts: They can be mutilated with impunity! :-)

Ultimately I need to take that door completely apart anyway so it's no big deal.

Now that the weatherstripping is in place up the A pillar and along the roofline, the window fits just fine. I'll be able to survive the winter!

[67_Eldo]

It's been a while since I've updated this thread. Unfortunately, that's because things have been moving slowly. Oh well.

One detail that caused a slight panic a couple of years ago when the vinyl top was revealed to be a scam was another easy-to-overlook smattering of rust spots on the lower cowl/firewall, down by the lower door hinge. [Door_1 pic] The spots appeared (to me) to be surface rust but when poked with an ice pick, demonstrated a lack of metal underneath. Oh no! My body-shop mentor said "Get rid of this car now." Those guys never did like the Eldorado!

I calmed him (and myself) down a bit by pointing out that the Eldo was not a unibody car. A frame runs under the first 3/4ths of a 67-70 Eldorado, so we weren't necessarily looking at impending structural failure. In fact, if you got underneath the car and looked up, everything seems perfect. Still, it sort of rattled me. But fixing the top took priority for the following nine months.

The more research I did, the less worried I became about the condition of the cowl. I'd disassembled enough of the front-end sheet metal to see that the A-pillar rust you find on some Eldos didn't exist here. When I pulled the cowl vent to replace the windshield-wiper motor, all the areas were peachy. So, for whatever reason, the rust seemed to be confined to that area around the hinge. [Door_2 pic]

I cut a chunk of sheet metal from the hood of a late-model salvage GM car and painstakingly bent it into shape. It is a complex shape that probably consumed at least 8 hours of work even though it seems you could knock that out in about 30 minutes. Tap, tap, tap. Fit into place. Note gaps. Tap, tap, tap. Repeat ad infinitum. [Door_3 pic]

With an endoscope, I peeked through the rust holes to see what I could see. It didn't look bad. [Rocker pic] So I blasted the whole cavity (as best I could) with Evapo-rust (cousin to Thermocure) a few times. Then I blasted a few blasts of Rust Mort (a rust-converting acid) and *then* a liberal multi-blasting of 3M Cavity Wax. With that level of chemical embalming, that section of the car should still be intact when the pyramids crumble. [Door_4 pic]

The conventional wisdom may have dictated welding it into place. But more and more these days, cars are glued together with "purple stuff," another amazing 3M chemical concoction. Gluing is not only easier, it eliminates heat that warps metal panels. And it is arguably stronger than a weld.

So I ground all of the paint from all surfaces, coated everything with "black stuff" (the brother of "purple stuff"), [Door_5 pic] clamped the patch into place, and hit it with a heat gun for 30 minutes (to accelerate curing). The "black stuff," in addition to being an adhesive is also a rust protectant so I didn't have to worry about adding primer to the mix. [Door_6 pic]

[67_Eldo]

This post will cover a few odds and ends, not necessarily in chronological order.
In fact, the first item I'll mention here happened yesterday!

Two years ago as part of my Big Expenditure, the THM 425 in my '67 Eldorado was rebuilt. The rebuild came with a two-year warranty. For the past year, my transmission (and engine) have been leaking progressively more oil. Not a lot, but more than the no-leak-at-all mentality I associate with spending thousands of $$$$$ on Cadillac rebuilds.

In the meantime, I've been working on eliminating vacuum leaks. When I pulled the vacuum hose from the OJ that connects it to the THM, I found a *tiny* bit of fluid. Still, a "tiny" bit is more than one should see, so that sealed the deal: I took the car back for warranty work.

There were no major malfunctions. The vacuum modulator turned out to be weak and leaking. I figured that was a one-day job. Two months later, he's still looking for leaks. I'm pretty wound up by now, but I kept my cool during my increasingly frequent chats with him. He finally decided to replace the transmission oil-pan gasket Monday (July 29th).

I got the Eldo back yesterday afternoon (July 31st). It shifts better than ever, no longer feeling "mushy" off the line. If I wanted to, I could chirp the front tires pretty easily when the lights turn green. And the engine runs Cadillac smooth because the new modulator sealed what I believe to be the last of the vacuum leaks.

Most amazingly, when I looked on the driveway this morning, there were no leaks of any sort underneath where the car had been sitting! Zounds!

We'll have to see how long this streak of good fortune lasts.

While the transmission guy had the car, he apparently left the ignition on once while the engine was not running. My Pertronix Ignitor I and its matching Flame-thrower coil did not appreciate that. The coil apparently fried before the protective 10A fuse I installed kicked in. The Ignitor I was spared by the fuse, however. He installed a new mystery coil (for no charge) that seems to work. But not knowing that coil's specs makes me nervous, so I'll probably plunk for another Flame-Thrower 1.5-ohm coil and keep this one as a backup.

Sorry about the absence of pics for the above verbiage.

Just after I completed the cowl patch mentioned in the previous message, I turned my attention to the lower-rear edge of the driver's side door. Like the cowl, it too had spots that turned out to be more than surface rust. [Edge_1 pic]

I cleaned out the rust to see what I was up against. [Edge_2 pic] Like the cowl, there were holes alright, but nothing to worry about. I treated them with Rust Mort and primer and I'll probably have them painted this way. Since they'll effectively act as ventilation holes, I think they'll do more to help water escape, reducing the propensity to rust in other parts of the door. [Edge_3 pic]

My massive, scary, temporary "dashboard" welcomed another module: A Bluetooth receiver/four-channel DSP-powered preamp. Tunes! [Bluetooth_preamp pic]

The rusty dip in the middle of the vast Eldo hood was the very first body part I started working on more that two years ago. I cleaned and straightened up what I'd done a bit and installed the cross-brace I fabricated to replace the rusted-away original. [Hood_1, Hood_2, and Hood_3 pics] I'll probably end up putting the original trim piece back down the center of the hood.

The body-shop assistant at the school asked me if he could practice his pin striping techniques on my car. I said sure. [Design_1 pic]

I found a set of second-gen Toronado hubcaps for $80. Since Eldo hubcaps go for much more money, I figured I'll use the Toronado items in the interim. Of course, I had to replace the Toro emblems with an anonymous circular 3D-printed doodad. [Hubcaps pic]

Finally on the way home yesterday (July 31) gettin' some gas. [Gas_1 pic]

[DeVille68]

Nice! Keep it up! You will find that you will keep this car because it gave you so much opportunity to learn and meet people. Like my 68 that keeps me busy all the time. I have invested so much time and money, it's not worth it from an financial point of view. But it allowed me to meet and learn so much - I will never sell my car...

Best regards,
Nicolas

[67_Eldo]

Thanks!

[67_Eldo]

Which one is not like the others?

[35-709]

   Good one.

[wrench]

Good to see the update...thx

[67_Eldo]

I'm tired of waiting for myself to rearrange the Eldorado's ductwork so I visited Wal-Mart and snagged a fan. Classy!

Also from Wal-Mart, their $20 AM/FM receiving, USB-stick reading, Bluetooth-connectable stereo unit replaced my DIY quad preamp (for the moment). I'm not even using the stereo's 18W/channel (four-channel) output. It's a pretty amazing deal for the technology offered, even though there is so little metal attached to the internal IC power amp that I'm sure the thing would cook itself in a hurry if somebody actually tried to use it to drive 8-ohm (or below) speakers.

The cheapy receiver also draws a serious 80- to 100-ma of vampire current when it is turned "off" (to keep the clock and the internal memory alive). If someone hooked it up according to the instructions, their battery would be dead within a week if the vehicle it is attached to isn't started and run. I'm going to make a little supercapacitor backup system for it, but I don't think my backup will keep the thing backed up for more than a few minutes. This means that every time I shut off the car, it forgets what song was playing from the USB stick or what radio station I was listening to.

Still. $20!

You can also see the 2.5" defroster hose that currently squirms from the 3D-printed adapter I made to attach it to the main ventilation output inside the dashpad-less dash. I think that, to provide myself enough room to run that hose various places, I'm going to have to pull the bulky Automatic Climate Control from its slot in the dash and fabricate something new. We'll see.

[67_Eldo]

Things have been moving slowly, but I finally got new mirrors on my 1967 Eldorado. I snagged some driver-quality rear-view mirrors from a 1968 Eldorado.

As many of you know, there is a world of difference between '67 and '68 mirrors. In 1968, a whole new set of auto-safety requirements went into effect. The new requirements for external mirrors were extensive and relatively detailed. Mirrors in 1968 had to display a minimum area (which was a larger area than the '67 mirrors provided) and, more importantly from a mounting-on-the-door perspective, mirrors for the first time had to meet "breakaway" standards.

When you look at the simple and robust mounting arrangement on the '67, you wonder why Cadillac would change it. Well, the problem was that it was *too* robust. It some body or some thing was whacked with the driver's side mirror on a stock '67 Eldorado, they would definitely feel the pain -- if they survived. Therefore the '68 driver's side mirror will not bolt directly to a '67 door.

Of course, 50-plus years later, one would really rather not perform any modifications to the '67 door sheet metal to accommodate a completely different 1968 mounting philosophy. Therefore one needs an adapter.

After about a week of messing around with my 3D printer, I came up with such an adapter (photo #2). Since my printer is an old cheapie, the toughest material it can print is ABS plastic. Unfortunately, I don't think ABS is up to the task of supporting an external rear-view mirror.

Shapeways is a company that prints out 3D files in a number of different materials. In particular, their aluminum printing option uses lasers to create a piece of solid aluminum as opposed to the sintered outputs using other metals. I had never tried using Shapeways before (even though they've been around for a long time), so I sent them my file and $100 (!) and crossed my fingers. Three weeks later, I received the final product. It was exactly what I needed: compact and strong. The acid test was installing it.

Pulling out the remote-control cable for the original mirror was easy. I recommend tying a strong string or thin wire to the remote-control "joystick" before you pull the old mirror out. You will then use that string/wire to snake the new joystick back through the door.

I used a bench grinder to remove sharp corners and bits of metal from my adapter to make it easier to fit into the existing door openings. I made no changes to the driver's side door itself. Ultimately, everything fit together snugly. Yay!

There were no '67 passenger-side mirrors so the passenger-side upgrade proposition was simple: Unscrew the mirror mount from the '68 and screw it onto the '67. I originally measured the location of the new driver's-side door to determine the position of the passenger-side mirror. But when I looked at the passgener mirror from the driving position, the mirror was too far forward. Ultimately I moved the passenger-side mirror about three inches back from the driver's-side position. Mirror locations vary depending upon where and how you sit as well as how large you are. My passenger mirror is in a useful spot, so I'm happy.

I may make some new rubber gaskets for the bases of both driver and passenger sides.

[James Landi]

Regarding your radio -- my '67 had a stereo receiver, and in "those days" it was designed with an electro-mechanical relay so that when the multiplex stereo side of the receiver determined that the signal was too weak, the relay would audibly click, and as you likely already surmise, the "serial clicking" would occur on marginal reception stereo.  I don't recall if there was a "monaural override" that would defeat the clicking--- Regarding the climate control and the a/c compressor system, it was incredibly durable. My rear engine seals leaked, which was an issue for my father-in-law, since his home had a lovely, spotless cement driveway. Mine was a daily driver, and I was commuting 90 miles per day, every work week from '72 thru '85--in rain, snow, etc... everything kept working, and I was never stuck with it.  Driving it in the snow was an incredible experience... only bumper high snow could stop it.  I kept the auto height compressor working (they carried the repair kit), and kept the vinyl top water proofed with "snake oil." Over time, the front floor pan required some DIY metal flashing... and then in the mid 80'sthe vacuum door locks decided to lock me in, and on occasion, I had to exit via the driver's side window--- so, sadly, I gave the car away, but it still ran silky smooth, and with the tires at factory spec (24-22 psi!), it was lovely drive-- I always felt like I was being "pulled rather than pushed" with that car, and that was a good and reassuring feeling.  James