1970 Cadillac RWD front brake rotors source

[Scot Minesinger]

I have three 1970 RWD Cadillacs and fortunately have not had to replace the rotors.  There is special metalurgy in the manufacture of them so that they can take some heat and retain their strength.  Metalurgy work is where all the replacement part factories cheat and just do not do it.  So I hate to buy replacement rotors made in China that will warp after a drive of hard brake use.

What is a good source of brake rotors for a 1970 Cadillac?

I went on Rockauto and they are out of stock.  It looks like they are not sold new, and if they are, need to be assured of good quality.  I guess good used is an option.  Also I read that you buy the 1972-76 Cadillac rotors new and make a modification - is that true, and if so what is it? 

Also, what about rear drums?

[fishnjim]

What happens when "hearsay" overrules logic.   
I just looked them up, they are available from the other "chain" part stores.   I think these fit several years and models.   Shop around.
I've had good luck w/ Wagner rotors(Autozone) for my vehicles, they're made under controlled places.   It's when you go on-line and buy stuff that's you have no idea of the source, low end store brand, or counterfeit that these rumors get started.   
Most brake suppliers have several grades and buy the best one you can, check quality before you leave store, and OEM is usually not highest but guaranteed to fit.   I'm a buy American kind of guy, but when you have no choice, it's frustrating.   We're not the biggest market and GM is not the biggest supplier any more, the global market place.  And manufacturers rely heavily on parts vendors now so they concentrate on selling vehicles, not parts.   It's no longer Henry Ford with his own trees and foundry.   A 48 year old vehicle is not a parts priority no matter how much one wishes.   It will only get tighter with time.

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

What happens when "hearsay" overrules logic.   
I just looked them up, they are available from the other "chain" part stores.   I think these fit several years and models.   Shop around.
I've had good luck w/ Wagner rotors(Autozone) for my vehicles, they're made under controlled places.   It's when you go on-line and buy stuff that's you have no idea of the source, low end store brand, or counterfeit that these rumors get started.   
Most brake suppliers have several grades and buy the best one you can, check quality before you leave store, and OEM is usually not highest but guaranteed to fit.   I'm a buy American kind of guy, but when you have no choice, it's frustrating.   We're not the biggest market and GM is not the biggest supplier any more, the global market place.  And manufacturers rely heavily on parts vendors now so they concentrate on selling vehicles, not parts.   It's no longer Henry Ford with his own trees and foundry.   A 48 year old vehicle is not a parts priority no matter how much one wishes.   It will only get tighter with time.

Be advised: Autozone, NAPA, Rock Auto, etc show "availability" on line for front brake rotors for my 1970.
They don't exist. I got an email Saturday from Autozone corporate 'apologizing for the inconvenience'.
CaddyDaddy alleges front rotors in stock, shipped $470. I've emailed them just for fun.

\m/
Laurie

[Mike Josephic CLC #3877]

According to what I've read when I've researched
the subject, the issues are these.

The raw unfinished castings for brake rotors that
were made by the steel industry in the U.S. are
no longer made here.   That stopped about 20
years ago.  The industry (I live in Pittsburgh) is
not nearly what it was and much of the capacity
shifted to China and India as well as the versatility
they once had (read, product selection).

So the situation on rotors is like this:

-- All the raw castings come from China

-- You can spec them and the Chinese will
supply what you want at a price and volume
level that makes sense production-wise

-- The better OEM type and name brand
suppliers buy these castings and they are
machined here that's why they sell at premium
prices. 

-- The cheapest rotors in the $30-$50 range
are made and machined in China.  They meet
minimum industry specs

There are similar situations for many other steel
products. -- some, unfortunately with military
applications.  We've succeeded in screwing
ourselves here and our steel industry is for all
intents and purposes crippled.  God forbid we
have to fight another full scale war.

Mike

[grantatx]

Hi Scot,

I had mine replaced just after I purchased my '70 Deville convertible and tried (and failed) to drive it from Ohio to Texas. The brakes were fine though and going strong through today. I got them from O'Reilly Auto Parts - here's the link:

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/brakebest-select-drum-rotor-hub-2924/tire---wheel-16779/wheel-bearings---seals-16502/brake-rotor-and-hub-assembly-13224/23290b23e8b4/brakebest-select-vented-brake-rotor-and-hub-assembly/5800rgs/2544682/1970/cadillac/deville?q=BBR+5800RGS+&pos=0

I can't speak to availability, but when I ordered them the store close to the shop I was having the work done near Columbus had them in stock.

Cheers,

Grant

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

Hi Scot,

I had mine replaced just after I purchased my '70 Deville convertible and tried (and failed) to drive it from Ohio to Texas. The brakes were fine though and going strong through today. I got them from O'Reilly Auto Parts - here's the link:

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/brakebest-select-drum-rotor-hub-2924/tire---wheel-16779/wheel-bearings---seals-16502/brake-rotor-and-hub-assembly-13224/23290b23e8b4/brakebest-select-vented-brake-rotor-and-hub-assembly/5800rgs/2544682/1970/cadillac/deville?q=BBR+5800RGS+&pos=0

I can't speak to availability, but when I ordered them the store close to the shop I was having the work done near Columbus had them in stock.

Cheers,

Grant

Oreily doesn't have them.
NO ONE on the retail side has them.
NAPA had 1 (one) in northern CA. By the time it was shipped here it was a Caddy Daddy price.

\m/
Laurie

[DaddyDeVille]

Hi Laurie,
$470 seems kind of steep when you can upgrade the whole shebang for just over double that.

1961-68 CADILLAC BIG BRAKE CONVERSION KIT $800
https://jamcosuspension.com/products/sfID1/33/sfID2/41/sfID3/35/productID/2645

1961-68 CADILLAC CUSTOM COMPLETE FRONT BIG BRAKE KIT $1200
includes master cylender, dist and brake booster
https://jamcosuspension.com/products/sfID1/33/sfID2/41/sfID3/35/productID/2641

This is the direction I'm leaning, especially at the $470 for rotors

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

Hi Laurie,
$470 seems kind of steep when you can upgrade the whole shebang for just over double that.

1961-68 CADILLAC BIG BRAKE CONVERSION KIT $800
https://jamcosuspension.com/products/sfID1/33/sfID2/41/sfID3/35/productID/2645

1961-68 CADILLAC CUSTOM COMPLETE FRONT BIG BRAKE KIT $1200
includes master cylender, dist and brake booster
https://jamcosuspension.com/products/sfID1/33/sfID2/41/sfID3/35/productID/2641

This is the direction I'm leaning, especially at the $470 for rotors

Stand by on any leaning until after tomorrow... mjussayin'....

\m/
Laurie

[Dan LeBlanc]

These guys make rotors to order up here in Canada, but the pricing is not for the faint of heart!

https://www.crossdrilledrotors.ca/cadillac/deville/1970/engine-7-7l.html

The options are limitless though.

[Scot Minesinger]

The 61-68 Cadillac link posted is for conversion from drum to disk, and I have not read great things about this in that the conversion is not powerful enough to even lock up the rotors in a panic stop.  The reality is that the drum brakes are very effective at stopping the car.  The risk of fade from repeated hard use of brakes is not a usual driving experience in our classics.  And since we generally drive our classics gently disk brakes that are not as effective as factory are not noticed.

In any event the front disc brakes were standard on Cadillac in 1969 to present day.  This would not likely apply.

You may want to inquire more about Caddy Daddy to see exactly what you would be buying for $470 delivered.  Also, USA Parts 304-724-6600 offered to sell me rotors for my 1970 Cadillac a few years ago, but I declined because did not need them.  Also, you may find NOS on e-bay, but be very careful, sellers often represent that Auto-Zone type parts "fit your car", when they do not except in the trunk to take them home.

Mike, did you write on another thread that you could buy mid 1970's rotors and convert them?  If so this would be helpful. 

[bcroe]

The 61-68 Cadillac link posted is for conversion from drum to disk, and I have not read great things about this in that the conversion is not powerful enough to even lock up the rotors in a panic stop.  The reality is that the drum brakes are very effective at stopping the car.  The risk of fade from repeated hard use of brakes is not a usual driving experience in our classics.  And since we generally drive our classics gently disk brakes that are not as effective as factory are not noticed.   

Huh, 13 inch rotors can't lock up, what is wrong? 

Agree with your comments about drum brakes, my 62 was
just fine on a sunny day.  But it was driven in every kind of
weather and road condition.  After driving through a deep water
filled pothole, or in the rain, there was no knowing what would
happen when braking.  Bruce Roe

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

The "hack" for front rotors on these cars are mid 70's Chevy pick up truck rotors. Everything fits, calipers, bearings and seals are the same size as 'original' rotors. Heck if you have a caliper problem the parts for "that truck" should work. The truck rotor is 1/4" less is diameter and 1/8" less in hub height, but enough pad still grabs and you can shim with washers if the 1/8" bothers you. We were going to get this done today but ran out of time with all the other work that was done, hopefully next week. I'll post pics and video. Don't want to give specifics now in case everyone runs out to get these $40 rotors and it fails for them. All I know is folks with 70 Caddy's on another forum have done this with great success, stay tuned....

\m/
Laurie

[Glen]

  After driving through a deep water
filled pothole, or in the rain, there was no knowing what would
happen when braking.  Bruce Roe

Driving with drum brakes back in the day, there were some things you did different.  Like when you drive through water the first thing you do is lightly apply the brakes to clear the water out of the drums, and warm them up to dry.  It was a reflex action for me. 

[fishnjim]

http://www.wagnerbrake.com/find-my-part/find-my-part-results.html?parttype=BRAKE&apptype=AUTOMOTIVE&options=1970~Cadillac~DeVille&values=1970~Cadillac~DeVille

I'd suggest you call them and let them source.
I remember the '70 Cad new, I think my step uncle had a new one.   He worked for GM subsid and had the employee program, so he flipped them sometimes after the 6 month hold period.   I'm sure there are other GM rotors, that will fit if you cross reference.   But may need period catalogues, which I have but I have my own things to do.   Only exception would be if Cadillac tried some new design, which they often do, and it was one year only, but that doesn't ring a bell, and they would've had a substitute part, if it wasn't available via discontinued.   Brake systems were outsourced.   I doubt it would have been anything to do with magic alloy, because these are made to be machinable and are standard ductile grades.   I made ferrous and non ferrous alloys too and you pretty much go by the heat analysis as to metal quality in that industry.  Not as much virgin iron in use like in the days of Carnegie and Bessemer.  Almost all comes from scrap post war.   Special stuff may have extra testing.   
It's a well known fact that they upprice Cadillac parts even when they are the same as other models.   My friend ran the NAPA back in the day and my other friend needed a muffler for his '69 coupe and it was less than half if he ask for it as a Chevy, with same part numbers same part.   Same applies to Packard and a few other money pits.   That's why they're high end market.   Benz, BMW, Bentley, etc all tightly control the parts chains for that reason -> easy profits.
I've been to China 4 times in the past.  China is still a communist country but seems to be doing quite well once the opened up.   I don't like some of their practices, but I don't have a billion+ people to deal with either.   I manufactured over there, so you have to compare on an equal basis.   There is a strong counterfeit market there.   The Shanghai Buick I rode in was a very good automobile.  So lumping all the crappo junk the Chinese take out stores sell, is not an accurate view.  If we didn't buy it, it wouldn't be on the shelves, so we do things to ourselves sometimes.   I know it's tough, because they want to sell what they want to sell, not what you want to buy, but you have to shop around more than before to get the best for the best price these days.  Tides shift.   I bought a new hoe today, because my old "forever" one broke, and it was proudly stamped China on the head.   And this US toolmaker company precedes the US was a country.   
So y'all just have to get a grip on today's reality.   We've become a nation of online gripers, naysayers, and not doers...That won't get one very far.  If not get a DeLorean and turn into a time machine and import parts from the '70s.   I'm sure there's a small market.

[chrisntam]

Way to throw a wet blanket on the discussion Jim.



I agree, it's all about money.  If there's not a profit to be made, a replacement part won't be made.  Often, the market is way too small for quality parts we need made.

[cadillacmike68]

The 61-68 Cadillac link posted is for conversion from drum to disk, and I have not read great things about this in that the conversion is not powerful enough to even lock up the rotors in a panic stop.  The reality is that the drum brakes are very effective at stopping the car.  The risk of fade from repeated hard use of brakes is not a usual driving experience in our classics.  And since we generally drive our classics gently disk brakes that are not as effective as factory are not noticed.

In any event the front disc brakes were standard on Cadillac in 1969 to present day.  This would not likely apply.

You may want to inquire more about Caddy Daddy to see exactly what you would be buying for $470 delivered.  Also, USA Parts 304-724-6600 offered to sell me rotors for my 1970 Cadillac a few years ago, but I declined because did not need them.  Also, you may find NOS on e-bay, but be very careful, sellers often represent that Auto-Zone type parts "fit your car", when they do not except in the trunk to take them home.

Mike, did you write on another thread that you could buy mid 1970's rotors and convert them?  If so this would be helpful.

I've been working on (and paying folks to work) on this 1968 for some 20 years and and have found out a LOT of information and misinformation.

There are TWO issues here. RWD Only. El Dorados are a special case.

First is someone with a car that already has disc front brakes, like SOME 1968s and all 1969s and later. These folks will only need rotors - occasionally, IF they stomp on them too much. And maybe calipers but I've never ruined a caliper. Calipers are readily available in any event and pads are the SAME from 1968 through 1996 and even into the early 2000s on some GMC tucks.

Now the rotors - please see below so I don't make this longer than necessary.

Second is someone who Doesn't have disk brakes like MOST 1968s and all earlier years. Like I used to be.

OK,  so someone posted about Jamco "kits".  I looked up those links. They BOTH "attach to your stock spindles"  If you do not Already have disk brakes, your stock spindles - which are really steering knuckles, DO NOT HAVE THE NECESSARY DISK BRAKE MOUNTING BRACKET. SO YOU CANNOT USE THESE "KITS".  EDIT: Looks like they include some sort of disk brake caliper bracket, but the pads are TOO SMALL for these cars, as Scot has noted. Plus, the rotors do not look thick enough.

I have also seen several other "conversion" kits. Most of these use undersized parts from the 80s which are not adequate for stopping the 60s 4,500-5,500 pound cars. Plus you don't know what your getting and when a rotor or pad wears out - well, good luck.

There are two problems that the second group faces.

First is getting steering knuckles with the disc brake mounting bracket. You can get 1969 brackets (or 68 disk brake brackets, but since most 68s were drum, don't confuse the parts people). These retrofit all the way back to 1961, I think. Call some yard that you trust and see if they will sell you the 1969 disk brake mounting brackets. They probably wont and will want to sell you the entire steering knuckle assembly. That's a PITA because they will likely cost $200-500 for the pair, but at least you can get them

Then you need rotors, calipers, pads, possibly a different master, a proportioning valve, etc. This is all available EXCEPT the Rotors.

Back in the late 60-s through 71-72 everyone was experimenting with disc brakes and Everybody's parts were different and pretty much would Not interchange, EVEN AT GM. It wasn't until 1971 that GM standardized on a single design, but Cadillac didn't adopt that until 1972.

That's why 1971-68 Cadillac rotors are HARD TO FIND. Most other GM divisions rotors from that time are IMPOSSIBLE TO FIND. 

So you either suck it up and buy some outrageously priced rotor IF YOU CAN FIND ONE, or you do what I did.

Bruce gets the initial credit for this, because he figured it out first.

Check this link out:

http://www.modifiedcadillac.org/articles/onepiecediscswap/onepiecediscswap.html

And my initial link referencing this:
http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=133159.msg283539#msg283539

Basically you get a 1972-76 rotor which fits ALL the GM B C D bodies so they are readily available and the corresponding inner grease seal, and you mill / grind away the small circular lip on your dust shield to make room for the 72 rotors to fit in.

Now if you have a 1969, you also have to reverse the steering knuckle bolts as shown, but 1970-71 owners do not need to do that because the 1970 & up steering knuckle is one piece.

What I did was take this one step further- mainly because the shop which "converted" my 1968 to disc used parts from 1969-70 Oldsmobile Delta88s and 98s. yeah - and they Lost my original 1968 steering knuckles. So I bought a set of 1969 steering knuckles so I could have them, AND I bought the 1970 one piece steering knuckles. I had to find both sets of camber eccentrics as well, because Cadillac changed the shape of the conical attachment point.

We looked at both sets and decided that the 1970 was much more durable, so I had those put on.

BUT Cadillac changed the angle of the dangle on the conical shaped attachment points of the steering knuckles, so I needed 1970 lower ball joints and 1970 outer tie rod ends. It all went in fine.

Laurie,

Those 72 truck rotors WILL require you to mill away your 1970 dust shield, just like a1972 Cadillac rotor will. If it was me I'd get the larger diameter Cadillac rotor from 1972-76 they will fit better and offer a larger braking surface.

And they don't really cost more.  Rockauto $39

[cadillacmike68]

http://www.wagnerbrake.com/find-my-part/find-my-part-results.html?parttype=BRAKE&apptype=AUTOMOTIVE&options=1970~Cadillac~DeVille&values=1970~Cadillac~DeVille

I'd suggest you call them and let them source.
I remember the '70 Cad new, I think my step uncle had a new one.   He worked for GM subsid and had the employee program, so he flipped them sometimes after the 6 month hold period.   I'm sure there are other GM rotors, that will fit if you cross reference.   But may need period catalogues, which I have but I have my own things to do.   Only exception would be if Cadillac tried some new design, which they often do, and it was one year only, but that doesn't ring a bell, and they would've had a substitute part, if it wasn't available via discontinued.   Brake systems were outsourced.   I doubt it would have been anything to do with magic alloy, because these are made to be machinable and are standard ductile grades.   I made ferrous and non ferrous alloys too and you pretty much go by the heat analysis as to metal quality in that industry.  Not as much virgin iron in use like in the days of Carnegie and Bessemer.  Almost all comes from scrap post war.   Special stuff may have extra testing.   
It's a well known fact that they upprice Cadillac parts even when they are the same as other models.   My friend ran the NAPA back in the day and my other friend needed a muffler for his '69 coupe and it was less than half if he ask for it as a Chevy, with same part numbers same part.   Same applies to Packard and a few other money pits.   That's why they're high end market.   Benz, BMW, Bentley, etc all tightly control the parts chains for that reason -> easy profits.
I've been to China 4 times in the past.  China is still a communist country but seems to be doing quite well once the opened up.   I don't like some of their practices, but I don't have a billion+ people to deal with either.   I manufactured over there, so you have to compare on an equal basis.   There is a strong counterfeit market there.   The Shanghai Buick I rode in was a very good automobile.  So lumping all the crappo junk the Chinese take out stores sell, is not an accurate view.  If we didn't buy it, it wouldn't be on the shelves, so we do things to ourselves sometimes.   I know it's tough, because they want to sell what they want to sell, not what you want to buy, but you have to shop around more than before to get the best for the best price these days.  Tides shift.   I bought a new hoe today, because my old "forever" one broke, and it was proudly stamped China on the head.   And this US toolmaker company precedes the US was a country.   
So y'all just have to get a grip on today's reality.   We've become a nation of online gripers, naysayers, and not doers...That won't get one very far.  If not get a DeLorean and turn into a time machine and import parts from the '70s.   I'm sure there's a small market.

Hate to bust your bubble Jim, but from the mid-late 60s through 1971-72, All the GM divisions were independently experimenting with front disc brakes and they DID NOT interchange. PLUS, Cadillac had camber eccentrics in between the steering knuckle and ball joint making them always different. Please refer to my post above.

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

http://www.wagnerbrake.com/find-my-part/find-my-part-results.html?parttype=BRAKE&apptype=AUTOMOTIVE&options=1970~Cadillac~DeVille&values=1970~Cadillac~DeVille

I'd suggest you call them and let them source.

Jim, very respectfully..
I know I'm a chick but, don't you think I've done this? Sure, go to this link. Find a local store, heck find a store within 100 miles. Click on their link for rotors - OUT OF STOCK. And I've called those retailers directly too, I emailed corporate at Autozone since they show them on their website as available to 'ship to home', *OUT OF STOCK*. On another FB Caddy forum a few guys are laughing at me since O'Reily showed them as available. They placed orders with credit cards, good for them. If you READ the ad for these rotors neither "ship to store" or "ship to home" are highlighted - ergo - OUT OF STOCK. No doubt O'Reily took their money and will hold onto it for time immemorial until the customer demands a refund for failure to ship.

These rotors don't exist anymore and they haven't for a while. A few have some stockpiled and want $466-$550 for a pair.

Its why people are using 70's GM truck rotors, not a PERFECT match, but darn close enough and all the other parts interchange.

\m/
Laurie

[Cape Cod Fleetwood]

Laurie,
Those 72 truck rotors WILL require you to mill away your 1970 dust shield, just like a1972 Cadillac rotor will. If it was me I'd get the larger diameter Cadillac rotor from 1972-76 they will fit better and offer a larger braking surface.
And they don't really cost more.  Rockauto $39

Mike, 1977 truck rotors... plug and play.

\m/
Laurie

[cadillacmike68]

Mike, 1977 truck rotors... plug and play.

\m/
Laurie

MAYBE. You still might to mill away the lip on your dust shield.  Let us know.

\m/