Question for the folks here

[Dgood133]

Hi I am new to this forum and am hoping I can find some good advice / guidance on a potential restoration project.

Adding some pics from when car was still in CA here..

I have inherited a 1960 series 62 convertible in “ by my impression”  amazingly good original condition. ‘ Showing her age  “ no rust, 1 strange dent on left rear quarter, all original parts present, good chrome, paint oxidized but not scratched or discolored. Car is violet mist with a white “ supposedly original “ top. According to my mom she and the doc were still driving her occasionally in 2014. The doc “ husband now deceased “ bought car from original owner in 1976. ODO shows 20,000 something  miles

I’m trying to decide what I can do with her. My other car is also old so I need to decide... I can take pics tomorrow and upload if anyone is able to advise

I am wondering what it would cost “ ballpark “ to bring her back to a reliable driving condition. Is that even feasible?  I don’t drive much as my work is freelance and can be done from home.

Would also be great to get impressions of the cars value as is so I know my options...

Thanks in advance
D

[James Landi]

Apparently, you're not a "shade tree mechanic," so the ball park figure you mention implies that you're considering dropping the car  off  at a local "shop" to be made whole again.  One of the major challenges you'll face is finding a mechanic who'll take your project seriously and not cynically take your hard earned cash for little return.  I state this at the outset because we've read some sad narratives of members who  "left their beloved car" with someone they initially trusted and then been appalled with the results. All said, do you know someone whom you trust to do the work?
Everyone on this forum agrees that the first order of business is to make the car safe to drive. Based on what you know, has the car been regularly maintained, and by whom?---Is the car's frame rusted and weak, or is it in serviceable condition, and then, if so,clearly brakes, steering, tires, running gear are priorities. This would include items that may never have been touched for the past 60 years and require immediate attention.  Flexible/rubber brake hoses, braking wheel cylinders, brake fluid,  master cylinder and associated parts will likely require immediate attention. And then there's the question of steering and suspension components. If in fact the mileage is truly that low, some of these parts will be in good condition.  Then there's the absolute necessity of all fluids being changed.  So, paying a reliable mechanic to carefully inspect the car to provide you with an assessment of its TRUE condition is of paramount importance.  Major focus: safety.
So, if the car is running well, drives well, and seems smooth, perhaps some of this work has been accomplished.  Are there any records of service
Once you have paid for an assessment/careful inspection, then you can determine the way forward.  You may be very fortunate and learn that the car is mechanically and structurally in excellent condition, and the focus would need to be on aesthetic matters.  Do provide us with some plictures, and if you have additional information regarding some of the questions raised, do keep the narrative going.   They'll be plenty of information coming your way from CLC members--- (you;ve come to the right place.)   James

[wrench]

Im not a 59/60 guy, but making one a daily driver in 2020 is an interesting question.

It all depends on what your budget is and what your definition of ‘reliable’ is.

It’s not like it’s the 1960s and 1970s where you could be a hippie rock band and drive around in a 1960 Hearse and keep it on the road.

Nowadays? You would have to be a crackerjack old school mechanic to do that.

As James points out, unless you have a decent budget and can work on the car yourself, it would be a chore to keep it roadworthy on a regular basis.

To paraphrase The Dude, “Well, That’s just my opinion, man”

Others here with specific knowledge can argue otherwise, but I doubt it.

Basically, you have ‘chummed the water’, we shall see what sort of frenzy ensues.

Good luck with your car.

[Dgood133]

Thanks for the quick response James. I have a guy that’s been working with me on my other car 85 MB 500 sec “ I need to choose between the two else my wife’s head may explode “ he’s good but not a specialist. AIRFORCE veteran lifelong mechanic. Trustworthy... if anyone has recommendation for someone near Orlando?

I would have had the service records but they were lost in my moms luggage :/

The brakes were repaired before car was transported here last year. We got the engine going but she’s  leaking pretty badly which makes me suspicious of overall condition. I do know when the doc got sick a lot of stuff was neglected and I’m afraid this car was part of it.

I will take pics and post

Thanks again
D

[Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373]

All I will say is that if you get rid of it, you will ALWAYS regret it.
Jeff

[fishnjim]

You need to ask your mechanic to inspect/assess if it's safe to start and run and what it needs to do that.   That'll determine the cost/value and path forward.   You're in no rush, but maybe perceived to deal with it now due to your other issues.
Internet guessing by people with limited situation info is not advised.   Including me.
I don't know of any cars that old that survive without age related issues, unless they were professionally stored in climate controlled storage, regardless of what the family says.

[76eldo]

If you have inside storage for the car do not be in a hurry to do anything.
I own a 1960 Convertible and have revived two other 1960 Cadillacs from long time storage.
One was stored in an attached garage, somewhat heated, and was easy to get running.
The other was indoors but in unheated storage and the engine was seized requiring a total rebuild.

First thing to see is if the engine will turn over, meaning rotating and is not stuck or seized.
Do not crank it by putting a battery in it and hitting the key.  That may be fine but if it's been sitting for 6 years you should at least remove the spark pulgs and shoot some penetrating oil in the cylinders and try to turn the engine over by hand with the plugs out.

The plugs are removed with a 13/16 spark plug socket.  Coincidentally, the bolt on the lower crank pulley is also a 13/16.  With a 1/2 inch ratchet and some extensios you can reach in from the top and turn that bolt clockwise which should easily rotate an unseized engine with the plugs out.

Some people also remove the valve covers to make sure that all of the rocker arms are moving up and down indicating that there are no stuck valves.

The car is worth keeping if you have the interest.  Posting some photos will be most helpful.  Also mention where you live and maybe you can get some local help from a club member.

Good luck with your car.

Brian

[Dgood133]

Hi guys here are some pics I took while in CA this was 2017 car came here to Florida in Dec 2018

I don't have a garage already gone through two supposedly good quality covers since then " any suggestions on that greatly appreciated " Thinking of building a carport

more info on car
Brakes and exhaust were fixed before bringing here, I am in Orlando FL
The car was maintained by the Docs long time mechanic but I honestly don't know how much I trust that guy, may have been some taking advantage of older folks here...

She has been looked at by my mechanic friend, we have replaced fluids plugs wires filter etc. The carb was shooting gasoline so I had it rebuilt by a guy in AZ... she runs but is leaking oil pretty substantial. I think what happened is Doc would just go turn it on and sit in it every couple of days as he was very sick for the last few years.

Car definitely needs TLC. Just looking for guidance on how to proceed or even if its a good idea too. I went to school for car design but am by no means a mechanic
most I ever did was basic tuneups and replaced the starter and valve cover gaskets my first car a 63 devile back in the 80s. Point being  I love these old caddys but I don't have a lot of experience with restoring one.

I am charging the battery will see if can get her going today...

[James Landi]

David,

The additional information is helpful, and to some degree, hopeful.  Old cars tend to leak trans and engine oil, especially if they are not regularly run.  SO putting an aluminum turkey oven tray under the offending leaks will help you "gauge" the loss-- what is leaking and how much per day/week?.  Is it a hemorrhage or a drip-- makes a difference -- is the oil covering the starter motor and causing smoke on the exhaust system, and perhaps creating fire danger, or is it trailing back through the chassis.  Again, all leaks are relative and need proper identification.  A coolant and/or brake leak is not to be tolerated, but some engine and /or transmission oil that is not close to high heat, can be acceptable and tolerated.

From the pictures, the car looks to be highly desirable, so you might consider putting it up for sale in an entirely honest approach-- full disclosure and candor will help the old girl get to a new owner who has the money and the passion to make it nearly perfect.   You;re clearly at an inflection point--- you should not get involved in a scenario I call the "might as wells." For this car it might be, "So you have  front and rear engine seal leaks, so we might as well take the engine out of the car and rebuild it."   One can pour a lot of engine oil into offending crankcase seals before getting to the point that a "rebuild" makes sense.  Stay clear of the "might as wells"--especially if there are other hidden issues that could be extremely costly that you'll NEED to attend to.

All said, if you don't have expendable cash as you're hoping that this car will perform well in the Florida heat and long wait lines for stop lights, my advice is to present the car for sale, and find a buyer who knows these cars, knows what can be done to fix them, and will only use the car OCCASIONALLY.  Expecting a 60 year old car to provide you with reliable transportation in the driving environment around Orlando is a recipe for a sad end for you and this much love car.   Hope this helps,  James

[76eldo]

My 60 Convertible is a prized possession but it always starts and has never let me down including driving to Grand Nationals.
If the car is gone over by a pro you could drive it a lot. But you need to look at everything that is a west item especially the brake system.

If you are keeping it outside it’s going to rust. If you can’t get it into a storage unit or a garage that you can rent in my opinion you should sell it to someone that will make the car beautiful again.

[cadillacmike68]

The sun down here will literally Eat a car. You have to keep it covered or put up some sort of car port. A cover is only a stop gap. They don't last me a year either. If it's under some sort of roof, then ait can circulate around it and you can lower the windoes to keep the interior aired out. Otherwise, it will go downhill Fast.

I'm in WC. I have a few friends out along I-4 past you near Daytona. I'll check with them to see if they have any recommendations.

[chrisntam]

Car covers, rain and convertible tops end in mold / fungus on the top, which is difficult / impossible to remove.  Ask me how I know.   

To the OP, did you get all your questions answered?

You definitely need garage / shop storage (indoor).

Cost to get running / driving could be $500 to $5000, depending on what it needs and how much you can do - assuming engine & trans are ok.

Value? I'll give a wide range, wild @$$ guess, not knowing condition.  A running, driving "60 Series 62 convertible car would sell for between $20k & $50k.  What to others think about value?

It is a desirable (and attractive) car.  Best of luck with it!  You are in an enviable position!

[76eldo]

A 1960 Cadillac has a large radiator and all the ones  have owned and worked on always ran cool even in hot humid weather.  When the cooling system is in good shape and the radiator is clean the engine temp should not be a problem.  If the car is air conditioned, that's another story.

A garage for this car is a must.  We have all seen cars that rotted into the ground because they were owned by people that "are gonna fix them up someday".  You don't want to be one of those people because after a couple of years of living in Florida under a cover the car will go downhill fast.  Covers trap in moisture that you really don't want.

Proper storage for a vintage car is really important.

Brian

[Lexi]

Good advice given by members. Remember, it is all about the car. If you can't properly store and maintain her then you should think of selling. While most of these cars are "money pits", they are "worth" the challenge to enthusiasts who make the commitment. Passion for the car plus having the resources to do right by her-without a view to make a profit-are what is required to take the plunge. Having the ability to handle some of the work with the related infrastructure, (shop, tools, storage), is a must if you do not have deep pockets. As Brian pointed out, you don't want to be one of those people who had good intentions for the car but were unable to see things through. Bad for the car and seriously detrimental to her value if she sits and rots. Old cars are not like blue chip stocks. They got to be cared for and nurtured. Rather like maintaining your lawn and garden. Got to regularly maintain it and keep the weeds out. Clay/Lexi

[James Landi]

Lexi put the button on the consensus here.  As stated, you truly require indoor, temperature controlled storage, and not think of this car as a daily driver that you'll "run into the ground." As someone stated, FLorida eats up old cars.  As he states, people will pay a high premium because of passion and not view the car as an "investment."  You're at a great point now to "present the car" for a potential purchaser who has the money and passion to do it right and keep it going for years to come.  I do hope you consider all that's been stated as a respectful gesture by folks who want to help and offer their advice out of concern for you and a car that has been loved and protected for many decades.  James

[harvey b]

Myself i would think long and hard before i sold a car like that,if you sell it you will never find another like that,it is beautiful.Tinker with it a bit,see if it runs and stops,it looks like it wont need much.Dont be in a rush,cars like this dont come along every day,Do not allow anyone to tell you what to do,Step back and let the chips fall where they want.I wish i had such a dilema,nothing like that ever happens to me.  Harveyb

[59-in-pieces]

David,

I think Harvey is spot on.
Unless you have an economic need to sell the car - then sell.
BUT, if you don't need the money - DO NO SELL IT.

It's not a 59 convertible or Biarritz, but it is in its one way so close - it is iconic - and I wouldn't sell it.
"Futz" around with it to make it safe and drag it out on special occasions - you will never regret it - I promise.

Have fun,
Steve B.

[dinhnguyen57]

You can buy a car port from between $200 to $2000.  Where you live, can you do that?  Or is there a HOA that won't allow that?  Are there mice/rats around your area?  They can get into the engine compartment and even the interior  and cause a lot of damage.

What does the seats look like with the covering off?  The dash, door panels, and convertible top looks nice enough.

Yes, I would keep it if you can afford it and find a way to make it a safe driver.  This may become a life-long fulfilling hobby for you.

[Dgood133]

Hi again, sorry for no response, I am on a deadline to finish my work for Universal. Unfortunately being let go end of aug along with almost the rest of Creative :/

Anyway I really appreciate all the advice, I am considering everything right now. Side note the decision as to which car to keep may be moot as my 500 sec has decided to die right after we rebuilt the front end so... Murphy is in full effect

Had consult with my mechanic and  his opinion is the car needs to have all the engine seals, rubber, hoses etc replaced. And then go from there. He has a shop where we can do this. Radiator will need to be replaced? Or rebuilt, I know it’s better to keep original parts but does that include things like radiator?  For safety reasons I would want to put disc brakes on...  in 2018 I drove it to get it’s brakes done in Ca, transmission shifted pretty smooth but it has been a really long time since I drove a vintage car so...

She runs strong but is leaking a good bit including oil pan. When we had valve covers off the heads were clean and free of visible wear but the plugs were pretty blackened. At this point I don’t know what to believe about the miles. I do know the doc owned 5 cars though so maybe...

Front end will need all new bushings etc...

Interior is showing it’s age, seats are cracked and discolored same for carpet. Dash has 2 hairline  cracks and for some reason a small metal plate which may be covering where the Autronic eye would have been. I’m not seeing an AC but I’ve heard that was pretty common then

I will put more current photos up soon I will take pics of what I think are the less perfect stuff for input... 

Again the responses greatly appreciated, I would love to keep this car but in the end I will also not be the one to destroy her.
Fun story “ my mom is here visiting “ this car was literally bought in 76 from a little old lady from Pasadena it was her husbands car...

[chrisntam]

Funny story “ my mom is here visiting “ this car was literally bought in 76 from a little old lady from Pasadena it was her husbands car...

Go Granny, Go Granny, Go Granny Go.