Author Topic: best alternative to POR-15  (Read 3201 times)

Brett

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best alternative to POR-15
« on: January 28, 2006, 08:36:53 PM »
hey all,
what is the best alternative to POR-15? I just got back some rims from the bead blaster and just coated them with zinc phospate. I will be ready for a topcoat shortly..THAT WILL NEVER RUST AGAIN. Spraycan is preferable.

Jeff Maltby #4194

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Zero Rust in a rattle can
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2006, 09:04:50 PM »
Porter will be along any second ? :<)

Porter 21919

  • Guest
Re: Zero Rust in a rattle can
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2006, 09:15:45 PM »
Dude,

Captain Maltby would be right.

POOR 15 is a moisture cured urethane for application on rusted steel which will fail, guaranteed.

The zero rust is an alkyld enamel and would make a great topcoat on the zinc primer.

For bare steel epoxy primer or etch primer is the best but you can go ahead and topcoat with some cheap rust-oleum black if you wish.

The best topcoat would be a two stage black urethane but you will need a spray gun for that.

Porter

Brett

  • Guest
Re: Zero Rust in a rattle can
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2006, 12:33:33 PM »
I didnt use Zinc primer but POR-15 metal ready which is basically zinc phosphate (or so I think)

I was going to coat the rims with POOR-15 but I would prefer to spray rather than brush.

It is a logistical PITA to dismount tires and have rims bead blasted so I would be dammed if I do this to see rust again! I will be repeating this process later on for the backsides of fenders and fender skirts.

I have a compressor but no facilities to use a spray gun. Years ago I painted a motorcycle frame with PPG DP-90, which I hear is discontinued. I used disposable pre-val sprayers at the time. It is still rock hard, rust free, and a perfect semi-gloss black. I am hoping for a rattle can solution (still skeptical of anything other than two-part with a base and hardener after all these years); are you saying to zero-rust over the zinc phosphate I have on there now or coat it with zinc primer (like rustoleum, gulp) and then with Zero-Rust?

I like the idea of Zinc underthere because a scratch to metal wont spread, but Zero-Rust makes the instructions biased towards painting directly over bare metal.

Porter 21919

  • Guest
Re: Zero Rust in a rattle can
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2006, 01:28:28 PM »
Brett,

Zerorust is just a high solids alkyd enamel, try the product and see for yourself, it is a great value.

After Jeff Maltbys Poor 15 dissapointment he tried the Zerorust, thumbs up.

http://www.mfgsealants.com/

Porter

Lou 19028

  • Guest
Re: best alternative to POR-15
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2006, 01:38:18 PM »
Por-15 is a product designed to be used over RUST ONLY... If used in your application it would fail. There is nothing wrong with Por-15 when applied correctly!!! You had mentioned that you had very good success with DP90. Youre correct it is discontinued, however the replacement DP90LF is even better and when used with DP402LF there is no induction time. Once again all, POR-15 is a rust converter so for it to work properly rust must be present...

Porter 21919

  • Guest
Re: best alternative to POR-15
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2006, 02:35:47 PM »
Lou,

Correct, it is a moisture cured urethane, formulated to be applied on top of a clean rusted surface. The zerorust product will adhere as well if not better and you can touch it up if the rust comes back.

Bare steel and epoxy primer is the proper approach, not always practical or neccessary either.

The bottom line is steel needs oxygen to create rust, if you seal it up it cant rust anymore, rust is natures finish to protect bare steel.

Hope my info is correct or makes sense.

Porter

Porter 21919

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Re: Zero Rust in a rattle can
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2006, 05:08:55 PM »
Porter will be along any second ? :<)

Jeff, speak up, I have heard so matter horror stories about that other product I would never use or recommend it. Yet most people think it is the cats meow, LOL

On the other hand I always have a gallon of black zerorust on hand for any chassis, undercarraige or underhood refinishing, it dries to a nice satin finish, they have a zerorust crystal clearcoat too, you can apply that on top like a bc/cc if you want gloss or UV protection, it is an acrylc enamel, same price per gallon.

Quality paint is very thick with high solids, zerorust is an alkyd enamel , thick like mollasses and must be thinned for brush painting or spraying.

I really enjoy using the product and highly recommend it , anyone that uses it will realize the superior value of the coating, an incredible value, best bang for the buck. You will never hear any negative comments about the product, only glowing reviews IMO.

Available in gallons, quarts or spray cans, they have colors too, here is a distributor I buy from : http://www.mfgsealants.com/

Porter









Porter 21919

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Re: best alternative to POR-15
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2006, 05:30:41 PM »
Okay Brett,

Go to Napa and get some duplicolor black engine enamel with ceramic in a spray can, a very durable finish. Figure one can per wheel, mininum, you might even consider asking a bodyshop to just spray then with some two stage black urethane, after I sand blasted and treated my 66 CDV rims with Oxysolv zinc phosphate I sprayed them with two coats of black zerorust.

Since I have a compressor and spray guns I buy most of my paint in liquid bulk form, thin as required and spray.

I can buy a quart of paint for what a 1/2 pint cost in a spray can. The rattle cans come in handy but they are pricey but convenient for small items in need of paint.

Since I do complete paint jobs and autobody I stay away from the use of any rattle cans, too expensive and I get a better job with my small touch up spray gun.

HTH,

Porter

rob

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Re: best alternative to POR-15
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2006, 02:22:14 AM »
This is what I did with my 1948 Buick wheels
1)sandblast them
2)have them electro-plated with zinc. The process is called electro galvanisation. Will not rust.
3)paint an extra layer of 96percentzinc-rich spray can paint. Epoxy based, adheres very well to the zinc-plating.I used a product similar to ZRC.
4)finish with the desired color in 2 stage urethane (PG 80 III)

step 2) can be skipped as it may be costly (i payed $300 for 5 wheels).
If so, the grey zinc-rich layer of paint should be in direct contact with bare steel.
It may also be painted over some light rust providing the rust does not chip away.The rust will not spread further under it.
The zinc will rust itself first before letting steel rust.

I will not use POR15, which only provides a physical barrier to water&oxygen, in addition to be expensive and requiring a tedious preparation etc..and too hard to remove it over bolts & filleted links/arms once dryed.
The above methode gives an electrical & physical barrier to steel.
Zinc-rich paint is not too expensive and easy to apply, perfect for wheels and frames, and paiting over bolts.

Rob

Jeff Maltby #4194

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Re: Zero Rust in a rattle can
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2006, 11:14:08 AM »
 1995 cans of Por-15 state:

Product Description

Por-15 is a rust preventive paint designed for application directly rusted or seasoned metal surfaces. It dries to a rock hard,non-porous finish that wont chip,crack, or peel and it prevents rust from re-occurring by protecting metal from further exposure to moisture. Por-15 is sensitive to UV=sun light and must be topcoated for prolonged exposure. Topcoating is not required for areas not exposed to sunlight.

Application Procedures

Surface Preparation: Rusted surfaces are best; seasoned metal and sandblasted surfaces are good also. SMOOTH METAL SURFACES: Use Por-15 metal ready to prepare surfaces before painting. Surface must be dry and free of grease.oil and other foreign substances. Use of rust converter products is not recommended as they may affect bonding of Por-15 to metal. Por-15 likes to ashere to surfaces with Tooth rather then smooth,glossy surfaces.

To be continued=my story with Por-15 on my 49 fastback frame.

Porter 21919

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Re: Zero Rust in a rattle can
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2006, 09:11:05 PM »
I use Kirker epoxy on bare steel for autobody work.

http://www.smartshoppersinc.com/

Porter

Ray

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Re: best alternative to POR-15
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2006, 11:53:39 AM »
I used POR-15 on my Michagan-winter thru summer everyday driver 86 Ranger (yikes...a FORD....oops ?), and found it to have VERY scattered results.  Most areas rusted and peeled off after 3-6 months.  The engine paint sytstem (which is basically the same as the frame system...) DID last about 2-3 years, then went down hill fast.  But 2-3 years through salt, heat, etc. on an engine was very good IMO.  Im assuming the heat helped cure the paints better than air drying.  There is some stuff through Eastwood (..cant remember the name...) that I took a survey on the Buick Club of America website between that and POR-15, and everybody pretty much who used POR-15 has the same spotty results as I did....the other stuff was used a lot less...but everyone who used it seemed very satisfied with its results.  I have not yet tried it...but will on my 70 Caddy convertible.  Anyone that DID seem satisfied with the POR-15 seemed to have trailer queens that never saw wet of rain or humidity, as they were always garaged and tucked nicely away....

dale jackson

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Re: Powdorcoat Is it beter??? or not ?
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2006, 12:35:38 PM »
 I reading about powdor coating. It seems cheaper and beter in end ?

 Example they do an bare frame for 700 and 200 for axle housing, 50 bucks an wheel etc.

  Most shops sandblast the parts and derust it and then coat for same money.

 Its sound an lot beter than painting parts or dealing with paints sandblast etc since you take part to shop and they do it for flat fee.

 Is it beter or will last longor than paint etc ? I dont know is it perfect fix to rust etc becides por 15 paint, rust bullet , epoxy primer etc?

 Will it fade out or fake off years laters?

  If its worth it I will powdor coat all my parts that needed sandblasting and repainting. It may beter for since I would have pay shop to repaint my parts.

 Dale

Ray

  • Guest
Re: Powdorcoat Is it beter??? or not ?
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2006, 01:22:07 PM »
Powder coating is definately better.  It resists rust better than ANY paint, and keeps its color generally better as well.  However, the issue with powder coating is that you have to do a frame off resto to get the frame coated, if you do any insides of body panels, you have to get the panels off....PLUS the parts have to be sandblasted, preped better. You cant do any on car paint jobs.  You can buy powder coating set ups that can handle bigger parts through Sears, Eastwood, NAPA....but again the cost of the equipment and IF you can get to the parts off the car....   For full tilt restos - DEFINATLY the way to go.  Ive seen salt spray tests where I work, and by far powder coating is hands and feet (head and shoulders...) above the others.  

If you have heat exposure though, such as on brake drums or rotors, they will fare worse. High heat breaks down the powder coating.

Rhino 21150

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Re: Powdorcoat Is it beter??? or not ?
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2006, 02:59:22 PM »
If we are talking about just a set of steel rims, then powdercoat is the way to go. A local shop (18 miles from me) in North Carolina will do wheels for $35 to $50 each, depending on how much prep you do. If you can take the tires off, you can put the rear axle on stands (GOOD STANDS!), put the rim back and hold a wire brush against the spinning rim. Dangerous, but I even used this trick to friction weld two rims together. Nine inches wide, twelve inch diameter! Mount them backwards to clean the inside.
I am too old and tired to do this myself anymore but I know many car freaks who will do this, just to brag that they did!
If you are crazy you can have them plated with brass, silver, gold, chrome, nickel...

Porter 21919

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Re: best alternative to POR-15
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2006, 05:54:35 PM »
Ray,

I hear very few positive comments about POOR-15 but mostly negative reviews.

Sounds like you are talking about Eastwoods Cooreless, at any rate I recommend the Zero Rust alkyld enamel product to everyone, Ive used three gallons already with very satisfactory results, only had to touch up a few spots years later.

As always, the rust needs to be clean and tight for proper adhesion, oil free , etc.

Proper surface prep is the key, when the POOR-15 fails they will blame you for improper surface prep.

It is my civic duty to warn people about that product, seems like everyone that has never used it and had it fail thinks it is the greatest product since sliced bread.

Porter

Ray

  • Guest
Re: best alternative to POR-15
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2006, 11:37:36 AM »
I agree overall with the negative about POR-15.  I wont ever use it again except on maybe an engine.  And  your were right...the name in Eastwood was Corroless.  

The only reason I say ANYTHING positive about the POR-15 is because of the engine paint (which is the same as the frame paint).  I told my engine builder NOT to paint my Ranger engine, he did though, and I used paint thinner, etc, to remove the paint.  Im sure that despite how well I cleaned it using the POR clean stuff, there was still thinner, and other nasty things I used, in the casting pores. Despite that, the paint adheared well.  Again, I fall back on the engine heat curing the paint completely as to why this worked and the other frame stuff failed.  I DID also use their POR PUTTY and fiberglass to repair some holes in my door.....suprisingly after 4 years it is still repaired and not rusting through.  Again, the results are so spotty  with my entire experience with it, I still wouldnt recommend it overall.

Ray

  • Guest
Re: best alternative to POR-15
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2006, 11:40:09 AM »
Porter,

Question : have you used the Zerorust on everyday drivers, or on resto projects ?  Im still looking for something for my hopefully soon-to-be-everyday driver 70 Caddy convertible to use on my floor, door panels, inside of fenders, etc....



Dave Leger CLC #19256

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Re: best alternative to POR-15
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2006, 02:39:23 PM »
I recently replaced the dust panel (fender liner) in my right front fender with a good one, the original was rusted.  There was rust in the mounting bracket, so I used the Eastwood Rust Encapsulator as a primer, before painting all surfaces.  Well see how it holds up.    

 



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