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1932 Cadillac V16 scale model

Started by Roger Zimmermann, July 12, 2019, 01:40:19 PM

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Ralph Messina CLC 4937

Roger,

You are a man of infinite patience........After that problem I'd have to put the tools down and go for a few drinks.
1966 Fleetwood Brougham-with a new caretaker http://bit.ly/1GCn8I4
1966 Eldorado-with a new caretaker  http://bit.ly/1OrxLoY
2018 GMC Yukon

35-709

Me too!  But maybe he did just that!   ;D
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Roger Zimmermann

Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on November 06, 2019, 06:28:47 PM
We will.   But, will forgive you.

Thanks Bruce, I do appreciate your noble attitude!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Roger Zimmermann

Quote from: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on November 06, 2019, 06:34:56 PM

You are a man of infinite patience........After that problem I'd have to put the tools down and go for a few drinks.
Yes, Ralph, I believe I have more that the average people! About that problem? I don't worry: my other models are full of errors! Sometimes I'm telling about that, sometimes not…
The drink(s)? Of course, it's part of the life, but only after the "shop" is closed!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Roger Zimmermann

#44
That huge tube is now over. When the outside diameter was OK for me (it's larger then necessary, it will be turned down when I'm doing the rims), I did deep grooves into the cylinder. As my tool is not allowing to go deep enough, I went further with a hand tool and finish the job with a saw blade, one by one.
Now I have 6 rims to machine, will be busy for some time!
The reason about the smaller diameter for the wheel hubs is now known: the frame I measured and took pictures is from 1933; the wheels are 17" and not 18" like 1932. Thanks Johan for the explanation!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Roger Zimmermann

The rims are in work. As the shape is what it is, there is a lot of work. One is almost ready; the second one is in work. One side is ready, I have to do the other one by using a different chuck to grab the part at its outside diameter.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Roger Zimmermann

The remaining 5 rims are machined on one side. On the picture, the machined side is shown on 3 rims, the other ones are "upside down" to show what I have to do on all rims.
Recently, I ordered brass rods to make the spokes. Then the real fun will begin!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Roger Zimmermann

A few days ago, I began to machine the other side of the rims, hoping that my calculation was correct and that enough metal is still there!
Apparently, all went well. The zone where the spokes will be installed at the rim is rather thin, maybe .5mm or less. As my caliper is too wide for the central groove, I had to rely on the sketch I did.
The second picture is showing how the rim is machined with a hand tool.
The problem to machine the other side of the rim was to have as concentric as possible; I hate when machined parts are turning like eggs! For that, some imagination is required; this time a bit of paper was needed to have both sides turning true (third picture).
Now, the rims are done, the wheel hubs are done, the spokes must go in! Well, before I'm drilling both parts with 40 holes each, I have to make a jig to install the spokes. From a scale model forum I got a good idea which I modified for my needs.
Basically, the rim is held on the jig with 3 clamps and guided bat the inside diameter of the rim. The wheel hub is attached in the center with 4 bolts and positioned by the central hole from the hub.
The next step: drilling the holes for the spokes at the rims (rather easy) and at the hubs which will be more difficult because the holes are not perpendicular to the surface. How many drills will be broken until I'm finding the right way to drill?
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

The Tassie Devil(le)

Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on November 16, 2019, 12:44:16 PM
The next step: drilling the holes for the spokes at the rims (rather easy) and at the hubs which will be more difficult because the holes are not perpendicular to the surface. How many drills will be broken until I'm finding the right way to drill? 
Me thinks you will need to fabricate a steel jig, or two, with the holes at the correct angle, so that when it is placed up against the rim/hub, the flutes of the drill will seamlessly transpose from the steel guide, into the brass part, without chattering.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Bob Hoffmann CLC#96

Rodger, I'm impressed with your work. Just a reminder, the stock spokes had a bend in them & were welded into the rim. The optional stainless steel spokes were straight & held to the rim with special nuts.
Bob
1968 Eldorado slick top ,white/red interior
2015 Holden Ute HSV Maloo red/black interior.
             
Too much fun is more than you can have.

Roger Zimmermann

@ Bruce: good idea with the guide for the drill, thanks! It's something to think about it. It could be a tube; the holes will be between 0.6 and 0.65mm (0.024 - 0.026").

@ Bob: thanks for your comments! I'm doing the standard wheels with the welded spokes. From the sop manual and various pictures, I saw that the are bent at the rim; I ignored that there was an option with stainless spokes. For a scale model this option would be difficult to realize: the hub and rim must be painted before the installation of the spokes. The spokes themselves cannot be screwed like the real ones and obviously not soft soldered because this would ruin the paint!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Roger Zimmermann

The rims are drilled without problem, but it was the easy part because the holes are perpendicular to the surface. I predrill anyway all the holes with a stronger drill and did the holes with a more flexible drill; it's more work but the safe way.
The next will be a lot of fun as the angles are compounded.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Roger Zimmermann

As I anticipated, drilling the wheel hubs was not as easy as the same operation for the rims. I used one afternoon to evaluate the correct angles and for the set-up of the machine. As there are angles on both axis, I had to imagine how I could get the second one without too much trouble: a rigid piece of cardboard was put at the back of the drilling press, used as a reference line; with that, I could put the arm at the angle I wanted with another piece of carboard as a guide. As the holes are a bit larger than the spokes, a 100% precision is not needed.
As you can see from the pictures, the holes are drilled at a daunting angle. To avoid drilling waste, each hole is done in 3 steps: first a tiny milling cutter diameter 0.5mm is used to have a flat surface for the next step. Then, a pre-hole is done with a rigid drill diameter 0.7mm and finally the hole diameter 0.6mm is done with a flexible drill. If I had the same type of drill for the final hole as I'm using for the step #2, I could spare one operation. On the other side, the larger pre-hole is allowing some movement for the spokes during the installation.
I had some trouble with the second set of holes at the back of the hub. As the machine is too small, I had to do another set-up and I saw that I'm doing the second set of holes at the same direction as for the first set. I could correct the error before it was too late.
I'm still not sure if I will be able to drill the holes on the small diameter of the hubs as the angles are quite different but the machine still the same size...
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Roger Zimmermann

All the holes into the hubs are done; I'm glad it's over! After the first row at the large diameter, I had to drill the second row which holes, if I'm right, are between the holes from the other row. The difficulty was to find the right spot to drill; unfortunately, there are some differences between the hubs. Maybe this will not be evident at the first glance.
The next task was to drill the holes at the smaller diameter from the hub. As the spoke’s geometry is different than the one for the rear spokes, the angle at which the holes must be drilled is more challenging than for the rear.
I began with the row situated near the end of the hub. By looking at the shop manual’s drawing, it was obvious that the holes cannot be drilled completely through the metal because they would be outside the surface covered by the hubcap. On the other side, this is almost a benefit: I must not solder the spokes at this location, only at the rim.
The second row at the smaller diameter from the hub is also specific; the holes are very near from the ones from the outside row.
The various pictures are showing how I had to deal with my small machine; for one operation, I had to leave the bead from the machine alone to avoid an interference with the electric motor.
About the motor: lately, it had a lot to do; while drilling the outside rows, it began to act like there was not enough fuel! In fact, one of the brushes was worn and did no more contact the commutator. Fortunately, I had one on stock and could replace it to finish the drilling. I could be a good idea to order another set…
Finally, all the drills are still in good condition, nothing broke!

Now, the real fun will begin with the spokes.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Roger Zimmermann

The first wheel is done!
At first, I thought that the spokes having an elbow would simplify the construction. Well, not exactly: the spokes must be at the right length because when the elbow is going through the hole at the rim, the spoke must be almost at the appropriate hole at the hub. Well, it took a long time for the first one; now I have recorded the length from the 4 different spokes, this will simplify the assembly for the next wheels.
It seems that my device to hold hub and rim was a good design: the finished wheel is turning perfectly true!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

35-709

1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

David King (kz78hy)

Good to know they are true and capable of 100 KPH.
David King
CLC 22014  (life)
1958 Eldorado Brougham 615
1959 Eldorado Brougham 56- sold
1960 Eldorado Brougham 83- sold
1998 Deville d'Elegance
1955 Eldorado #277
1964 Studebaker Commander
2012 Volt
CLCMRC benefactor 197

Director and Founder, Eldorado Brougham Chapter
Past President, Motor City Region

Rare Parts brand suspension parts Retailer via Keep'em Running Automotive

The Tassie Devil(le)

Truly beautiful.

Now you have to make a tyre fitting machine small enough to mount the tyres onto the completed rims.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

35-709

1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

Roger Zimmermann

Thanks for the comments, I do appreciate them! However, I will not build a tire fitting machine as my tires (they are not yet born for this model) are not requiring a machine; the fingers alone are sufficient!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101