Cadillac & LaSalle Club Discussion Forum

Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lucas F. CLC #15674 on August 30, 2005, 08:33:17 PM

Title: To all Gulf Coast Region members...
Post by: Lucas F. CLC #15674 on August 30, 2005, 08:33:17 PM
...who may have been affected by Hurricane Katrina.

Please know that we in other parts of the country are aware o the terrible devastation and misery this storm has caused. You are in our thoughts and prayers and we hope that all of you (and your cars) have survived this catastrophe and that your lives get back to normal as soon as possible.

I was going to bid on some stuff for my 63 on eBay but I think I will send the money to the Red Cross instead.

With best wishes,

Lucas F. CLC #15674
1963 Series 62 Convertible
Title: Re: To all Gulf Coast Region members...
Post by: Dave #17592 on August 31, 2005, 07:46:12 AM
Very true Lucas,

     Let us pray that all of our CLC friends were out of harms way when the hurricane hit.   May you all return to find your homes (and garages) high and dry.

     Yesterday they showed an upside-down crushed 89 Lincoln towncar outside one of the Biloxi Casinos.   Makes one shudder to think that our classics can get blown away like that.  But I suppose those who live in the Tornado belt live with the same risks.    Life is more important than possesions anyways.

   
     Unfortunately after the water receeds and the insurance claims are all paid, those flood cars and trucks can end up at a used car dealer near you and I.  Ten years ago we had a nearby new car dealer suddenly end up with a load of left over cars show up.   When I questioned the new carpeting in all the cars and that freshhly washed out glovebox, I asked him if these were flood cars.   The dealer was furious that I asked!   I opened the trunk, reached in and pulled out a taillamp bulb from its twist out socket and it was filthy with silt.  I said, next time, have your buyers check first before you unload a fleet of headaches on your neighbors.

David
Title: Experience with Mississippi Highway Patrol
Post by: Sue #5125 on August 31, 2005, 11:40:51 AM
Earlier this year on a roadtrip home from New Orleans (Hemmings Motor News 2nd Annual Caribbean Cruise), we experienced a problem with our Suburban.  Late on a Sunday afternoon, an engine pulley for the serpentine belt locked up somewhere in northern Mississippi.  

We made it to the next exit where we found a combination gas station/Baskins Robbins Ice Cream Store and not much else.  Upon seeing that the problem was an easy fix, we just needed to get to the nearest parts store about 30 miles north to pick up the new pulley.  

Enter the Mississippi State Patrol.  An off-duty officer in a patrol car was fueling at the gas station and he agreed to drive my husband to the parts store.  The officer then called for another MSP officer to bring my husband back to our vehicle.  That officer waited as we installed the new pulley, put the belt back in place and were on our way.  

With the assistance of the Mississippi State Patrol, we were back on the road in less than 1 1/2 hours.  Both officers were very nice and helpful.  I woke up this morning thinking of them and decided to make a donation to the Red Cross in their name.  
Title: Imperial Palace collection cars
Post by: Rusty Shepherd CLC 6397 on August 31, 2005, 12:58:35 PM
Does anyone know if some of the Imperial Palace collection cars from Las Vegas were still on display at one of the Mississippi casinos?  One of the cars was W. C. Fields 1938 9033 Sixteen.
Title: Free miles from United for donation
Post by: Sue 5125 on September 01, 2005, 08:26:59 AM
Just in case you are a United Mileage Plus member and you are considering a donation to help the Hurricane Katrina assistance this is a nice offer.  

United Airlines has announced: In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrinas devastation, we encourage our Mileage Plus members to make a donation to the relief effort. Channeled through respected charities, the monies will go to everything necessary to help those affected rebuild their homes ...and their lives.

To thank you for your participation and help, we will deposit 500 miles* in your Mileage Plus account for donations of $50 (USD) or more now through October 31, 2005.

To donate choose:
American Red Cross
AmeriCares
Operation USA
To receive your mileage award for cash donations:
Simply fax a copy of your donation receipt and Mileage Plus® number to
United toll-free at 1-866-583-5943.

Please take a moment to make a generous donation and send a message of hope to those affected by this horrific natural disaster.

*500 Redeemable Bonus Mile Terms and Conditions (MPDD95):
1. Must be a Mileage Plus member to participate; to join go to
www.united.com .
2. Member must fax a legible receipt from an approved charitable organization showing a minimum donation of $50USD with their name
circled and Mileage Plus number clearly printed on the receipt.
3. Receipt must be dated no earlier than August 30, 2005 and faxes must be received by October 31, 2005.
5. Donors name must match the name on the Mileage Plus account
provided with the faxed receipt.
6. Please allow 6-8 weeks for mileage to post to account.
7. A maximum of 1,000,000 miles will be awarded to the first 2,000 respondents for this program and will be awarded on a
first-come-first-served basis.
Title: New Orleans Cadillac Dealer
Post by: Dave #17592 on September 02, 2005, 02:40:20 PM
The news last night mentioned that all of the Cadillacs had been stolen at the local Cadillac Dealership.  

Why?  None of the cars can be sold without the titles?    All of the VINs are recorded so no matter where you try to register them the DMV will red flag you.    And new cars come off the delivery trucks with very little gas.  Dealers dont fill a car until the customer takes delivery.    So all those stolen Cadillacs will run out of gas before they ever get out of town.    

Youd think the way the folks down there were behaving that this was armageddon.  The end of the entire world forever with no consiquences.   It was a Hurricane and a flood.   But now it sure looks like Dantes Inferno.   Sad, very sad indeed.
Title: Re: New Orleans Cadillac Dealer
Post by: denise 20352 on September 02, 2005, 03:20:36 PM

    None of this makes any sense.  People are looting television sets.  With no car to carry it, no electricity, and your house full of water, what do you do with a television?  Walk half a block with it and then drop it because you cant carry it anymore.  That makes no more sense than shooting at hospitals and relief helicopters.

-denise
Title: Re: New Orleans Cadillac Dealer
Post by: Michael Stamps 19507 on September 02, 2005, 03:29:00 PM
While I was eatting lunch today I watched Fox.  All this talk of looting and anarchy reminded me of Hugo when it hit Charleston, SC.  I was a senior in high school and we just went 20 miles inland.  The next morning I got up to walk my dog and was surprised to find a National Guard standing at the corner with an M16.  The ball was dropped bad by someone this time.  There is no way the conditions should have gotten as bad as they are.

Stampie
Title: Re: New Orleans Cadillac Dealer
Post by: Porter 21919 on September 02, 2005, 09:54:05 PM
Agreed, they knew this was coming eventually.

Not as if I am one to talk about misplaced priorities.

This hurricane was pretty well telegraphed and they have very sophistaced equipment now to monitor these storms, not as if it was a big surprise what happened in New Orleans.

Title: Stolen Cadillacs
Post by: Johnny on September 02, 2005, 11:01:02 PM
Call me an extreme optimist, but possibly the theft of the Cadillacs was a good thing!  First of all, at least the thieves were able to get out of town, and possibly save their lives.  Also, they might have saved those Cadillacs, if when they run out of gas, they just abandoned them.  In any event those Cadillacs were going to be doomed to be ruined!
Title: Congress, Senate and Bush
Post by: Frank Iannacone on September 03, 2005, 12:11:14 PM
Are to blame for the Gulf Coast devastation, we can invade a Country and impose our values on others yet we cannot evacuate our own citizens that are living in third world conditions.
Title: Re: Congress, Senate and Bush
Post by: denise on September 03, 2005, 07:58:58 PM

  How many of these citizens would you like to invite into your home?  

-denise
Title: Re: Congress, Senate and Bush
Post by: Andrew 10642 on September 04, 2005, 11:56:28 PM
Id take the vast majority.  Karl Rove and Company started speading cr@p that they were all a bunch of looters until the cast majority of Americans saw it for what it was;  A lame excuse for the federal government, Homeland security and FEMA being completely disorganized in rescueing lives.  People starving and dying trump property rights every time, IMHO.

Racial predjidice and politics affects governemnt decisions still, and although I abhor the political opportunism on both sides of the aisle in placing blame, its unconscionable that people are blaming citizens for being too poor to escape flooding.  The media is completely manipulated to keep asking pointless questions.   My only hope is that the inhumanity is so abvious that the media wont let the feds get away with their lack of concern or ineptitude.

Is your only standard for human compassion that people must be without imperfection.
Title: Re: Congress, Senate and Bush
Post by: Porter 21919 on September 05, 2005, 12:38:58 AM
A catastrophic tradgedy, granted. Anyone living near wetlands, or on a flood plain is always at risk.

In this case there was advance warning, when the big inevitable quake hits California there will be no advance warning.

Im really hard pressed to see that racial prejudice is an issue here.

I dont condone people that would prefer to evacute but cant afford to without being provided the means to evacuate, on the other hand some people have the means to evacute and choose not to.

There are no easy answers here. Apparently it was the governments responsibilty to forcibly evacuate all of the citizens of New Orleans.








Title: Re: Congress, Senate and Bush
Post by: Michael Stamps 19507 on September 05, 2005, 12:55:34 AM
I will be the first to admit that I am not a fan of the current adminstration of this country.  That said I think I understand what happened.  

When the hurricane hit the gulf coast there was damage but NO was dry.  I think the goverments involved thought the worst was over.  It wasnt until the next day that NO was flooded.  At that point it was an O crap we got to do something and the first thing to do was to blame someone else.

Thats my take on the events that unfolded but with hindsight, an overkill responce without the needless loss of lives is a hundred times better than what they ended up with.

Stampie
Title: Dont blame the Government.
Post by: Bruce Reynolds # 18992 on September 05, 2005, 12:59:03 AM
Well, I am going to step in here and say that from all the reports that were generated, prior to the actual event, there was enough time for EVERYONE to be evacuated, forceably, if necessary.   We even heard them in Australia.

For those people that chose to "ride it out", I have no sympathy.   And, for the looters, I have no sympathy either.   They are the lowest of the low.  

Having said that, scavanging for food to stay alive is different to stealing TV sets and the like for personal gain.   Heck, when they get their TV sets, there isnt any power to plug the jolly things into anyway.

I dont know just what to say about anyone that would fire off firearms in any sort of situation, unless it was to escape a loose crocodile, but crocadiles dont fly, and animals cant hear evacuation warnings, so they should be the only living things there, and they can ususlly fend for themselves.

Further, I have no sympathy for my fellow countrymen and women that were tourists in your lovely Country that also decided to "ride it out" in the Hotels.   There was so much advanced information to get out, and they should have heeded that information.   I know, I heeded the information in 2002 and didnt venture down there when we heard the storms were imminent.   We just changed our itinerary.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

P.S.   It is easy to cast blame after an event.

P.P.S.   Everyone should stop whinging and help their fellow human being.

P.P.P.S.   And, stop calling the Black people African Americans.   Of course they are annoyed.   Arent they AMERICANS for Christ sake.

P.P.P.P.S.   I think I have stirred the pot enough.
Title: Re: Dont blame the Government.
Post by: Michael Stamps 19507 on September 05, 2005, 01:08:51 AM
The 80 year old lady to poor to own a car had no chance to get out.   The tourist who tried to leave but found no bus or taxi had no chance.  It is easy to think about ourselves and our loved ones and say yes we would have left.  That doesnt apply to everyone.  I used to live in that area and visited NO on many weekends.  Just like any large city you have those that are not able to pick up and leave even with a few days notice.  I wonder about the young Airmen just out of boot camp at Keelser AFB.  From my experience they most likely were stuck blocks from the beach just like a lot of the others.  I know when I was there I was one of out of maybe 20 that had my own car.  Just remember that some dont have the means and ways that we have.

Stampie
Title: Re: Dont blame the Government.
Post by: Bruce Reynolds # 18992 on September 05, 2005, 01:22:56 AM
Yes, I am aware that some people would have had trouble getting out, but that doesnt stop the people that took the educated decision to stay.

I know that people want to take all their belongings with them, but sometimes it is better to fill up a vehicle with people, even if they are strangers, than boxes of items that can be replaced.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV
Title: An example
Post by: Michael Stamps 19507 on September 05, 2005, 01:24:09 AM
I live about three blocks from the beach.  Ive slept through hurricanes before but I would most likely leave if one hit here in Jacksonville.  Three blocks to the east of me are ten million dollar homes.   Chances are the owners wouldnt be home since its their second or third house anyway.  Not five minutes west of me is a trailer park.  These trailers are 30 years old and the renters are so poor they divide the trailer up in thirds.  Thats correct, you have a family living in a third of a single wide trailer.  They would be my first thought if a hurricane was heading to Jacksonville.

Stampie
Title: Re: Dont blame the Government.
Post by: JIM CLC # 15000 on September 05, 2005, 03:29:28 AM
09-04-05
I have to agree with BRUCE R. 100percent. If they really wanted to get out of the path of the hurricane, they had two or three days warning. Unlike the crew of the "space-suttle" that NASA knew was damaged and would not make a safe return.
After hearing ABC-news on the radio today(sunday, 09-04-05)saying that the Mayor of New Orlens had a "contingency-plan" to use School Buses and any other buses that were serviceable to evacuate the people of N.O. Now, the busses are ruined. I find it damn strange that people will call-up or go to an agency and ask for food-stamps, but the same people will not ask for a ride out of town that could save their life! I for one, do not feel sorry for people that steal non-food items, and fire guns at the very people that are putting their "a** on the line" trying to rescue them. The ones I feel for are the babies and young that had to stay with their parent(s)(And suffered) Also, the elderly.
Good Luck To All that have survied, Jim
Title: Re: Dont blame the Government.
Post by: Andrew 10642 on September 05, 2005, 12:15:17 PM
Dont disagree with anything you said, Bruce

My only point was that many people had no choice but to stay, due to age, infirmity, caretaker status, or lack of transportation.  Did some stay because they were stupid(like tourists) or planning to loot and pillage?   Yes, but they are in every disaster situation, so predictible that when the hypothetical hurricane PAM for NO was run, they estimated that 112,000 would be unable to leave.

Much has been made of the levees failing because of the intensity of Katrina exceeding their design capacity, but Katrina hit mostly in Gulfport and Biloxi, MS, and the winds in NO were estimated to be 100mph, within the levees design capcity.  Who knows why the levee(s) failed, Im sure it will come out eventually. . .

FEMA did a great job after 9/11, but its becoming part of Homeland Security has resulted in a ponderous, bureaucratic agency, not surprisingly.  People paid for it with their lives, and continue to do so.  The NO police did an upstanding job of keeping things together for a few days(particularly without food, water, etc), but the lack of reinforcements from the National Guard, who have been almost entirely called away to Iraq, resulted in the situation degrading further than it needed to.  In my opinion, government is the only agency that can deal with coordinating massive relief and disaster, and our national government made the US look like idiots on the international stage.  So much for leading by example.

Fortunately, our President has so little political capital left that I dont even think Karl Rove can figure out how to use this event to invade something else.  (My apologoes to Bush fans,   I know it was a cheap shot, and that Bush cares about people as individuals, just not as large groups.  I just think the man is an absolute idiot, but hes our idiot until 2008, so Ill quit now)

Im starting a new thread about Tilt columns now.  Sorry if I offended anyone. . .
Title: African Americans
Post by: Johnny Boy on September 05, 2005, 12:17:27 PM
African Americans is what they prefer to be called, just like the group known as "Native Americans".  Personally I am with you, and hope I see the day, when we all just call ourselves "Americans"!
Title: Re: Congress, Senate and Bush
Post by: Yann Saunders, 12588 on September 05, 2005, 12:35:20 PM
It has been 48 hours since Gita and I offered (via the American Red Cross) to take in up to 3 people made homeless by Katrina(and irrespective of race, religion or political views).

At this writing, not even an acknowledgement !
Title: Re: Dont blame the Government.
Post by: Denise on September 05, 2005, 05:50:07 PM
> And, stop calling the Black people African Americans

   Its a trendy thing, Tassie.  Being just an "American" is way out of vouge.  That went out with Ronald Reagan.  Now you have to have a nationality, a hyphen, and a reason why the government owes you money,

   Im a Euro-American.  My folks were promised free land to come to the USA, but they were put in little company towns and made to work at the factories instead.  Pretty cool, huh?

-denise
Title: Re: Dont blame the Government.
Post by: Denise 20352 on September 05, 2005, 05:52:43 PM

> and our national government made the US look like idiots on the international stage.

  Speaking of the international stage, has anyone been out to help?

-denise
Title: Danger in your home
Post by: Rusty Shepherd CLC 6397 on September 05, 2005, 06:02:54 PM
Yann,
You and Gita are to be commended for your offer;it shows the good side of humanity (yes, there is one..although its often hard to see). However, youre probably very lucky that you didnt get any takers.  I cant think of many things more risky than letting perfect strangers move into your house. Many people who would not consider putting someone who was begging for money on a city street into their cars and taking them home are basically doing the same thing when they bring Katrina evacuees into their residence. Even if things went well for days,weeks, or months, when would you say "we just cant do any more" and what would you do if they refused to leave at that point and pulled a weapon they found in your home on you? Maybe 21 years of police work caused me to be unduly wary, but Id prefer to err on the side of safety.
Title: Re: Congress, Senate and Bush
Post by: Ed Dougher on September 05, 2005, 07:08:19 PM
Silly me.  I thought this was a car club website, not a leftist Bush-haters soapbox.
Title: Re: Dont blame the Government.
Post by: Andrew 10642 on September 05, 2005, 07:55:22 PM
International aid from a variety of locations was offered and turned down by our state department.  Pride has its price also.
Title: Re: Congress, Senate and Bush
Post by: Andrew 10642 on September 05, 2005, 07:59:33 PM
"How many of these citizens would you like to invite into your home? "  was the comment that set me off, Ed.  If that makes me a leftist, so be it.
Title: Re: Congress, Senate and Bush
Post by: Ed Dougher on September 05, 2005, 08:05:08 PM
In six months yall will be blaming the administration for not screening people before placing them in in peoples homes.

Its all exceedingly transparent.
Title: Stolen New Orleans Cadillacs
Post by: william hunter on September 05, 2005, 08:26:16 PM
My best guess is that many of them are now in parts boxes at a store near you.
They are all worth more as parts.
The few stolen and abandoned will be resold at auction.
Any 1980 or newer Cadillac that went under water is now a parts car IMO.
Title: Re: Dont blame the Government.
Post by: Johnny on September 05, 2005, 08:29:39 PM
Quote from: Denise> And, stop calling the Black people African Americans

   Its a trendy thing, Tassie.  Being just an "American" is way out of vouge.  That went out with Ronald Reagan.  Now you have to have a nationality, a hyphen, and a reason why the government owes you money,

   Im a Euro-American.  My folks were promised free land to come to the USA, but they were put in little company towns and made to work at the factories instead.  Pretty cool, huh?

-denise

Damn I would be pissed and go back to where they came from~
Title: Aussies to the rescue? Not this time!
Post by: Johnny Boy on September 05, 2005, 08:32:55 PM
CANBERRA: The government should have ignored directives from the US State Department barring foreign consular representatives from hurricane devastated New Orleans and sent a rescue mission, Labor says. Opposition Leader Kim Beazley said today Australian troops on postings in the United States could have been sent to the disaster zone where up to 20 Australians remain unaccounted for. Foreign Minister Alexander Downer said today he is concerned in particular for the safety of two Australians who have not been heard from since the hurricane struck. Mr Beazley said the Australian representatives could have talked their way through as television news...
Title: We tried, but our assistance was rejected
Post by: Bruce Reynolds # 18992 on September 05, 2005, 08:51:39 PM
Well, Our Government wanted to help, but offers of assistance were turned down.

We cant simply invade another country, even if that country is friendly.

And, the rantings on from Mr. Beasley is just that.   An Opposition Leader, and trying to postulate.

Our Prime Minister, John Howard, the other day, gave your Government $10,000,000.00 towards relief to those affected by the Hurricane.   Hope it gets to the right places.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV
Title: I suggest you all read post #1. again:
Post by: william hunter on September 05, 2005, 09:08:15 PM
This thread is personal, not politcs...
The death toll will take a year to edit and make sense of...
I suggest you all read post #1. again:
---------------------------------------------------
"Lucas F. CLC #15674
   
Tuesday, 8/30/05 7:33 PM    
To all Gulf Coast Region members who may have been affected by Hurricane Katrina.

Please know that we in other parts of the country are aware o the terrible devastation and misery this storm has caused. You are in our thoughts and prayers and we hope that all of you (and your cars) have survived this catastrophe and that your lives get back to normal as soon as possible.

I was going to bid on some stuff for my 63 on eBay but I think I will send the money to the Red Cross instead.

With best wishes,

Lucas F. CLC #15674
1963 Series 62 Convertible"
------------------------------------------------------

I hope and pray that all Gulf Coast Region members have survived this catastrophe, cars can be repaired or replaced...
The people down there need help not BS or blame game.
The emergency will not end for months.
Prayer, cash and/or other donations will help...
Do you have an old beater vehicle to give???
Clean the attic of the old clothes and blankets.
Dont forget under clothes and shoes are needed.

How You Can Help Katrina Victims  

Medical Volunteers

The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services is asking for a variety of health care professionals to go to the Gulf states and assist in this Katrina health care crisis, including doctors, dentists, nurses, social workers, psychologists and pharmacists. To print an application, visit U.S. Department of Health and Human Services and click "Katrina." All applicants must have hepatitis B and tetanus/diphtheria immunizations for this assignment. The phone number is 1-866-KATMEDI.



Salvation Army Serving Storm Refugees
http://www.salvationarmyusa.org/

The Salvation Army is currently providing services to storm victims and first responders in the Gulf Coast states.

A $100 donation to The Salvation Army will feed a family of four for two days, provide two cases of drinking water and one household clean-up kit, containing brooms, mops, buckets, and cleaning supplies

To donate by phone, call: 1-800-SAL-ARMY
To donate by mail, send checks, earmarked disaster relief, to
PO BOX 4857
JACKSON, MS
39296-4857


Volunteer for the Red Cross

The Red Cross is ready to start training volunteers to send to the south. If you are interested in volunteering you must meet the following criteria:

You must be at least 18 years old
You must be in excellent health
You must have a valid drivers license
You must be willing and able to take a hardship assignment for a 2-3 week deployment
You must be able to complete a 10-hour training session before you leave
Contact the Red Cross:
http://www.semredcross.org/
Title: Re: We tried, but our assistance was rejected
Post by: Johnny Boy on September 05, 2005, 09:56:49 PM
Quote from: Bruce Reynolds # 18992Well, Our Government wanted to help, but offers of assistance were turned down.

We cant simply invade another country, even if that country is friendly.

And, the rantings on from Mr. Beasley is just that.   An Opposition Leader, and trying to postulate.

Our Prime Minister, John Howard, the other day, gave your Government $10,000,000.00 towards relief to those affected by the Hurricane.   Hope it gets to the right places.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

One of the local Outback Steakhouses is giving all the money they take in tonight to the victims.
Title: Re: We tried, but our assistance was rejected
Post by: Rusty Shepherd CLC 6397 on September 05, 2005, 10:24:35 PM
Thanks, Bruce, to you, Mr. Howard, and your fellow countrymen.  I appreciate the fine friend Australia has always been to us and this extremely generous gesture is further proof.
Title: Re: Dont blame the Government.
Post by: Steve Crum on September 05, 2005, 11:18:19 PM
I dont think I could name the nationalities that are likely in my linage. I think if you want to look at it from a canine perspective, "Mutt-American" would be most appropriate
Title: Re: Congress, Senate and Bush
Post by: baxterculver #17189 on September 06, 2005, 12:01:11 AM
I think the Red Cross is still in the saving lives/first response mode.  Go to craigslist.org and check out the postings-- in the "New Orleans" "temporary housing".  There are hundreds of listings there.  You can post your most generous offer of help without cost on Craigslist.
Title: Re: African Americans
Post by: JIM CLC # 15000 on September 06, 2005, 02:57:33 AM
09-05-05
There is NO reason why anyone that was born on the "American Continent ( Canada, Mexico, South America. ( Any place on/in the American Continent, North or South of the Equator are "technically" Americans and can, when asked, what is your "nationallity", re-ply, "AMERICAN"!
Good Luck, Jim
Title: Re: African Americans
Post by: Johnny Boy on September 06, 2005, 08:00:08 AM
Quote from: JIM CLC # 1500009-05-05
There is NO reason why anyone that was born on the "American Continent ( Canada, Mexico, South America. ( Any place on/in the American Continent, North or South of the Equator are "technically" Americans and can, when asked, what is your "nationallity", re-ply, "AMERICAN"!
Good Luck, Jim

You are entirely correct, but since people in Canada, are called Canadians, people in Mexico are called Mexicans, people in Brazil are called Brazilians and so on.  I see no reason why people in the  United States cant call ourselves "Americans"!  If nothing else its easier then calling ourselves, United Statesians.
Title: Last word : I suggest you all read post #1. again:
Post by: Glenn L Brown #8092 on September 06, 2005, 10:23:30 AM
Concur. Read post #1 again. Take the time and reflect about what you have and what they dont! They now, are just trying to survive.

My wife has a significant number of family members in that area. Most of whom got out on Sunday. Several of whom did not (at least one of which was at the superdome). Fortunately, only one is unaccounted for at this moment. There is a dynamic in the New` Orleans culture that is not understood by those in other areas. these are proud people & self-sufficient people. Theyd rather tell you they stayed voluntarily, than to admit they were too poor to leave. keep in mind many of these people are on Social security or other assistance (keep your right wing thoughts on that to yourself if you please).  

Additionally, for you kids out there that dont remember Hurricane Camille. they do. They recall waht happened and that they weathered it okay. They recall the last few evcautions, that turned out to be false alarms. Additiionally factor in the hotel costs (I was told by one person it was $1200 for 4 days.)

Think for a minute, mayor tells you to get out. But, all you have is your house and whats in it.  You can only take what you can carry. You dont have a lot of money and youve been though several false alarms. You decide to stay.Bad decision. Okay, maybe you should have left, but you didnt.

What happened afterward, borders on criminal. I think teh slow response was partially caused by teh devestation causing lack of communication. It probably wasnt about race, but it was sure about class. You cannot tell me relief would have been this slow getting to people if this was Miami, or San Franciso, or New York. Check your history. It wasnt.  Not withstanding teh current directions, the Convention center has previously been used as a shelter and people who couldnt get to teh dome reasonably expected safe haven there.  I was watching Tv when the FEMA director found out about the Convention center and was totally surprised. Shouldnt have been. Then it took them almost 24 hours before they finally thought to drop food in, when they figured out they couldnt get there by land. [I guess that what happens when you appoint someone to a job who has absolutely no qualifications to do it other than they are your friend-though as a federal governement employee Im used to that]

All that being said. This is not a political forum. If you want to offer help, or encouragement please do so, but, this should be and hopefully will be the last word on the polictical aspects of this tragedy.

If you just cant let your biases go, send em directly to me. This aint the place

Glenn L. Brown


Title: Re: Danger in your home
Post by: denise 20352 on September 06, 2005, 02:18:58 PM

  I fear that many well-intentioned people are going to bring hell upon themselves.  I can recall how much trouble I had with inviting a friend to stay with me, how annoying she was, and how long it took for her to finally get out and move into her own place.  I can imagine letting total strangers into the house to be a thousand times worse, if not, as you said, very dangerous.  

  Its tragic that these people lost their homes, apartments, trailers, or the cardboard boxes that they were sleeping in, but it would be more of a shame to compound the problem by throwing away your own home, security and your familys safety.

   BTW, my uncle who lives in Oklahoma took off for Lousiana with a truckload of food and supplies last week, and we havent heard from him since.  Maybe we should be careful not to make a bad sitution worse.

-denise
Title: Re: Congress, Senate and Bush
Post by: Denise on September 06, 2005, 02:34:41 PM

  Id like to know where the [vast] majority of Americans got their information, because I cant tell whats going on down there.  The latest I heard from the radio today is that the mayor is telling people that the CIA is going to kill him, the FEMA people are trying to cut the phone lines, and Wal-marts truckloads of bottled water were being turned away.  Given the difficulty of understanding what the simplest facts are, I dont know how anyone could speculate about the motivation.

  Its good to know that people are still blaming George Bush for all of their misfortunes, though.  At least that news is consistent.

-denise
Title: Re: Dont blame the Government.
Post by: denise on September 06, 2005, 02:38:07 PM

  Ive missed out on most of the news, too many other things to do, but I am curious about this.  Can you tell me which countries offered aid, and what they offered?

thanks

-denise
Title: Re: Congress, Senate and Bush
Post by: Denise on September 06, 2005, 02:52:29 PM

  Like any manager, part of Bushs job is to get blamed for everything that goes wrong.  During a big crisis like this, when even the simplest facts are confused and distorted, a person who needs someone to blame is going to shoot for the top of the ladder, and the name that they know.  Some people need to make sacrifices to help the victims, some need to assess blame, others like me are willing to admit that we dont know the facts.

-denise
Title: Re: Congress, Senate and Bush
Post by: Densie on September 06, 2005, 02:53:54 PM

  Sorry bout that.

  Have any of them moved in yet?

-densie
Title: Re: Last word : I suggest you all read post #1. again:
Post by: Denise on September 06, 2005, 04:42:51 PM

  Last word?  Glenn, if you wanted to cut it off there, the first sentence would have been fine.  ;)
Title: Re: Danger in your home
Post by: Yann Saunders, 12588 on September 07, 2005, 05:14:15 AM
There are no weapons in our home.  Are you suggesting I should go out and buy a gun before letting anyone inside ?

Obviously there is an element of danger in inviting total strangers into your home.  But these "dangerous strangers" have NOTHING.  What we are offering them is "NEXT-TO-NOTHING" (i.e. temporary accommodation, a bed, food, a shower, a toilet).

We are less worried about the "strangers" themselves than the possible reactions of our 95percent white friends and neighbors.
Title: Re: Danger in your home
Post by: Bruce Reynolds # 18992 on September 07, 2005, 05:53:34 AM
Gday Yann,

Im with you.

Even if the majority of people requiring assistance are "so-called bad people", it is our duty to show them a helping hand.

If I were in the same boat, I would be greatful for a dry bed, and walls to keep the elements out, and keep my family alive and safe.

Each and everyone of us has some things that we would rather other people not see.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le),
60 CDV

P.S.   I dont ask people what their political persuasion is before  inviting them inside.
Title: Re: Danger in your home
Post by: Yann Saunders, 12588 on September 07, 2005, 09:14:17 AM
To put things in perspective :  we have had quite a few "total strangers", albeit from our vast circle of "Cadillac acquaintances", as houseguests since we emigrated here in 1997.  Gita even asked one of them, point blank: "are you a serial killer?"  

He answered, "No!."  But he could have been lying, right ?
Title: Stangers in my home...
Post by: David #19063 on September 07, 2005, 10:21:57 AM
You know, a few years ago my family let Bruce and his into our home sight unseen.

And guests dont come any stranger than Bruce!  LOL!!!  If you know what I mean? hahaha

Anyway, we tried to teach him to speak English, but we failed.

They were able to stay only two days as we were the last stop before Nationals began...we all wish they could have stayed much longer!

David
Title: Re: Danger in your home
Post by: Denise on September 07, 2005, 01:50:17 PM

   There is a big difference between inviting someone in for a visit and inviting people who have nowhere else to go to stay with you indefinitely.  These people are never going to leave.  Are you going to support them for the rest of their lives?

  Its not as simple as saying, "My neighbors are bad people because they dont want Blacks here"...after a year or two of supporting these people, none of that is going to matter.  After five years?  Ten years?  Thirty years?  Will your relationship with your friends and family suffer?  Are you going to have enough space in your house for them, every day, for the rest of your life?  Maybe you wont have a bathroom either, because someone will always be in it?  Maybe theyll never help clean it?

  Maybe youre going to help them get jobs and get on their feet?  Did they have jobs and were they on their feet before?  Will they be able to get them?  Are there a million or so fewer jobs available in the country right now?  Hey, its your life, but I would stop and think this through if I were you.  

  Now Im sure that everyone thinks that Im a racist, capitalist, right-wing bigot for saying this, but I hate to see people throw their lives away.

-denise
Title: Re: Danger in your home
Post by: Bruce Reynolds # 18992 on September 07, 2005, 06:57:09 PM
Yann,

Gee, I am a serial killer.

I eat serial every morning for breakfast, and enjoy doing it.

Bruce,
The Tassie Devil(le).
60 CDV
Title: Re: Congress, Senate and Bush
Post by: Porter 21919 on September 07, 2005, 09:59:31 PM
"Are to blame for the Gulf Coast devastation, we can invade a Country and impose our values on others yet we cannot evacuate our own citizens that are living in third world conditions. "

In the first place, you can blame mother nature for the hurricane. (devastation) Gulfport and Boloxi Mississippi were devastated.

In the second place, you can blame whoever was responsible for building homes on the wetlands, and building the levees to protect the building of such as if they would ever be sufficient in the longterm to contain a category "whatever" hurricane in a city that is below sea level.

New Orleans was a disaster waiting to happen, the speaker of the house, Dennis Hastert questioned the viability of rebuilding the city as it was before Katrina.

Before anyone starts pointing the finger at who is to blame or formulating opinions we should all get our facts straight, including myself.

At any rate we all realize now what an important seaport New Orleans is to the US and our oil and gas industry and our dependence on the supply of that energy and how it effects our entire country. I never knew, my heart goes out to all the people in that region.

Porter




Title: Re: Congress, Senate and Bush
Post by: Charlie Baldino on September 08, 2005, 07:11:05 AM
How did the engineers contain the water over 200 years ago?  Has global warming raised the ocean that much?
Title: population
Post by: william hunter on September 08, 2005, 08:43:44 AM
Total population was under 2000 back then.
What is the population today???
Title: Sea Level
Post by: Sue 5125 on September 08, 2005, 09:24:05 AM
Is it any wonder that the French Quarter stayed for the most part high and dry?  When it was established in the 1700s, the settlers obviously chose the highest ground.  Through the years as New Orleans and surrounding area has expanded, people have built levees, drained swamps and low lying areas to create the "buildable" land.

Remember the summer of 1993 when there was terrible flooding from the Mississippi River in the upper Midwest area?  How many of those persons who were flooded out have rebuilt in the same flood-prone areas?  

For that matter, how many persons have rebuilt in Florida or the Carolinas after being wiped out by a hurricane?  Or in the mountains of California after the incredible wildfires of 2003?  Mother Nature always wins in the end!  

I had always wanted to visit New Orleans. We were very fortunate to have been able to visit there earlier this year and to have had an opportunity to enjoy the hospitality and beauty of a wonderful city.    
Title: Re: Last word : I suggest you all read post #1. again:
Post by: Joe Abernathy #17524 on September 08, 2005, 09:34:00 AM
Glen,

I like the way you throw the Bush Admin. under the bus and then claim "this is not a political forum".  And now it should all end.

And Andrew claims all this aid was offered by other countries and turned away, but still hasnt offered any examples...

Typical "hit and run" liberals!
Title: Re: Last word : I suggest you all read post #1. again:
Post by: Matt Harwood on September 08, 2005, 10:40:32 AM
Quote from: Joe Abernathy #17524Glen,

I like the way you throw the Bush Admin. under the bus and then claim "this is not a political forum".  And now it should all end.

And Andrew claims all this aid was offered by other countries and turned away, but still hasnt offered any examples...

Typical "hit and run" liberals!

____________________________

Well, they did turn away Cubas 1000 doctors...

Also, Swedens offer of additional water purification equipment and communications equipment has also been rejected for some unknowable reason.

But if youre bringing in water purification equipment from Mexico and the Mexican Navy is there to help, things must be pretty dire. I certainly dont feel safer knowing that this is how an emergency is handled by the Homeland Security and FEMA folks. A lot of people dropped a lot of balls here.

On the plus side, many, many countries have sent aid that was accepted, ranging from Kuwait who sent $400,000,000 in cash and has promised $500,000,000 in oil, to Bosnia, who sent $6412.40 (or some similarly funny number).

My heart is warmed knowing that all the world hasnt turned their backs on us.
--
Matt Harwood
Cleveland, OH
My 1941 Buick Century Restoration:
http://www.harwoodperformance.bizland.com/1941buick/index.html TARGET=_blank>http://www.harwoodperformance.bizland.com/1941buick/index.html
Title: Re: Congress, Senate and Bush
Post by: Matt Harwood on September 08, 2005, 10:58:11 AM
Quote from: DeniseLike any manager, part of Bushs job is to get blamed for everything that goes wrong.  During a big crisis like this, when even the simplest facts are confused and distorted, a person who needs someone to blame is going to shoot for the top of the ladder, and the name that they know.  Some people need to make sacrifices to help the victims, some need to assess blame, others like me are willing to admit that we dont know the facts.

-denise

As Harry S. Truman said, "The buck stops here." I think the president should live by those words. W. doesnt seem to know what to do with the buck except to hand it to one of his rich buddies. If you want to take credit for the sunshine, you have to take the blame for the rain...

Things that are true and are his fault: engineers saw this coming years ago, and for the past 5 years have asked for federal assistance to reinforce the levees to survive a Cat 5 hurricane. They were summarily rejected as more money was appropriated to the war in Iraq. I doubt any of those folks in New Orleans were worried about terrorists when their houses were floating away. With a GOP controlled Congress and White House, theres nowhere else to put the blame for this chilling oversight.

This forum shows that we, as Americans, try to pull together whenever theres a crisis. Its a shame that it takes disaster to unite us and that its only temporary, but thats the way it is. Unfortunately, W. played some guitar, had some photo ops and made a speech about the supplies that were going to NOLA, but he did all of that at the wrong time and did nothing to comfort the American people. Instead, he pointed the finger and said, "nobody could have seen this coming." Unfortunately, people have seen this coming since his dad was president.

I certainly dont blame him for the disaster itself, but I dont think hes very good at interpreting warning signs and taking action before theres a problem.
Title: Re: Congress, Senate and Bush
Post by: GREG on September 08, 2005, 04:00:18 PM
THE LIBS ARE SLIPPING, THEY FORGOT TO INCLUDE HALLIBURTON.
Title: Re: Congress, Senate and Bush
Post by: Denise on September 08, 2005, 04:32:41 PM

  George Bush is in charge of appropriating money to repair levees?  I would have thought that would be Congress, but I dont know.

  What makes the war in Iraq any different from Bosnia, aside from that were not getting oil from Bosnia?

  What was it that Bush should have done while he was in LA/MS that he failed to do?

  As I said, I dont know all of the facts, but it seems that there there are a lot of fingers pointing at just one person.

-denise
Title: Thread now locked
Post by: Jeff Hansen, #4225 on September 08, 2005, 04:48:48 PM
As sad and tragic as the hurricane aftermath is, lets get back to talking about cars, please!

Jeff