Cadillac & LaSalle Club Discussion Forum

Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Roger Zimmermann on July 12, 2019, 01:40:19 PM

Title: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 12, 2019, 01:40:19 PM
Some people here do know that I'm building scale models. I did not a lot: a 1963 Studebaker Avanti R1, a 1966 Olds Toronado and a 1956 Continental Mark II. Each model is taking a very long time as they are scratch built; I had 9 years for the last one.
When I was finishing the Mark II, I was thinking that it would be the last model. Fortunately, I'm still able to do something, but I will not tackle a 10 years project. Slowly came the idea to do something with Cadillac. One, if not the most prestigious model, was the V16.
What I intend to do is a 1:12 scale rolling frame with the engine/transmission/suspension and steering. I would limit the MY from 1930 to 1933. 1934 have an independent front suspension; I have enough models with that type of front axle.
My issue is to find enough documents/technical drawings and/or pictures to be able to conduct this project. Of course, dimensions are a must and I hope that one or more viewers have informations or could tell me who has some. If costs are involved, there is not a problem. Once, there was a V16 in Switzerland; I will have to research if the car is still in this country but most probably I will not be able to take from it all what I will need.
Usually, shop manuals from that time have nice drawings from the mechanical features; this would be something to consider.
Who will cooperate? Anyway, thanks for the help!
As I expected, I was asked to remove the pictures. Instead, I'm providing a link for more pictures (without any text): https://www.mycloud.ch/l/P00BF517DEBF2C9CBD0035DF126D4B83DA36666BCFEBAAB0C28EACB3A40B70E4
More links are available if somebody would like to see more than 1000 pictures from the beginning almost 10 years ago till the completion.
Title: Re: 1930 to 1933 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: dinhnguyen57 on July 12, 2019, 02:35:56 PM
Wow!  You're very talented!
Title: Re: 1930 to 1933 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on July 12, 2019, 04:53:37 PM
Fellow members,

You have no idea! I followed Roger's step by step on the MKII Forum an could not believe the detail and accuracy. The blue car above has a chrome plated metal grille with fabricated egg crate mesh, the upholstery is real leather including the welting and it has has six operating power windows......That's just the beginning of the detail.

Go get'em Roger. Please start a thread and post progress pictures. It will be an education in how to create from scratch using traditional fabrication methods.

(BTW, has anything come of the book we discussed?)
Title: Re: 1930 to 1933 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: goob on July 12, 2019, 05:02:49 PM
I also followed along on Roger's Continental MkII build...I've never seen anything like his work!
Title: Re: 1930 to 1933 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 13, 2019, 02:42:03 AM
Thanks for the comments about the Mark II!
Yes, I have the intention to show here what and how I'm doing that V16 frame and engine. For the moment, I just have...nothing. Well, it's not true: I have a 1:25 Jo-Han 1931 Phaeton model, so I have a little idea of the general lay-out. However, plastic models are crude compared to the standard I'm trying to get. It's anyway summer season and not the best one for modeling. I'm letting time to people to react; I'm open to any suggestion.
It seems that there is a V16 specialist coming from time to time to this forum (a Mr. Crimmins?), maybe he will also have idea how to get what I'm needing.

@ Ralph: Randy had a real bad year with health problems. He his slowly recovering. I will send him an external hard disk with all the pictures I did from the Mark II. The project is still not dead!
Title: Re: 1930 to 1933 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Jeff Maltby 4194 on July 13, 2019, 09:00:00 AM
You mean Chris Cummings.
Title: Re: 1930 to 1933 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 13, 2019, 09:17:00 AM
Quote from: Jeff Maltby 4194 on July 13, 2019, 09:00:00 AM
You mean Chris Cummings.
Oups! Exactly; I hope he will not be upset!
Title: Re: 1930 to 1933 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Chris Cummings on July 13, 2019, 09:52:16 AM
Hi Roger,

Jeff alerted me to your thread.  That's magnificent work you do, and I'm quite impressed.

Do you have a copy of the 1930-31 shop manual?  It has a lot of dimensions and diagrams that would be useful, as well as detail photos.  Reproductions show up routinely in eBay if you're looking for a copy.  Also, I can scan and send you pertinent pages.

Do you have any particular questions?

Best regards,

Chris
Title: Re: 1930 to 1933 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 13, 2019, 12:24:00 PM
Hi Chris
Jeff fortunately corrected the name, your name, I had in the back of my head. Most probably the drawers were misaligned! Anyway I do thank Jeff for his move. I saw in the directory that you have a 1930 V-16; therefore you may be one of the "victims" with questions if you allow it!
The shop manual is usually the first element I'm buying; however I wanted to wait to be sure that this document will be helpful. I would prefer an original one as usually pictures or illustrations in reproduction manuals are not so clear. On the other side, to find an original will not be an easy task. For preliminary work a copy will be helpful; I will have a look in eBay. Thanks for your offer to scan pages but I prefer to have your "involvement" in a more practical way. Scanning pages from an old manual can be disastrous for the book.
If I have a particular question? I have thousands! The first one which will help is following: what are the main technical and cosmetic differences to frames and engines  during the years 1930 to 1933?
From the book "80 years of Cadillac LaSalle", I know that the wheelbase for the 1930 and 31 model was 148"; it was 143" and 149" for 1932 and 1933;however I don't know if major changes were made to the frame or engine.
I will also have a look in the Data base but I don't expect to have many answers here.

Something entirely different: did you participate to the 2012GN in Florida? I was there, usually next to Yann Saunders. He spoke to somebody having a name similar to yours, but I would not bet about my memory!
Title: Re: 1930 to 1933 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 13, 2019, 04:47:47 PM
Hi Chris

I suppose this is the manual you were referring: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1930-1931-LaSalle-and-Cadillac-Shop-Manual-V8-V12-V16-Repair-Service-Book-30-31/401153475261?fits=Year%3A1930%7CMake%3ACadillac&hash=item5d669c42bd:g:t38AAOSw1KNZ1ZFs

There is also an original 1932 manual: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cadillac-La-Salle-Shop-Manual-Leather-Bound-1932-B-Models-355-370-452-345/323836280620?hash=item4b66257f2c:g:T3cAAOSwSvVdBt3F

Which could be interesting depending the year I will replicate. As I have no real preference, this is not real important right now.
Title: Re: 1930 to 1933 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Chris Cummings on July 13, 2019, 06:27:52 PM
Hi Roger,

No problem about the name.  That was me at the 2012 GN.  I didn't bring a car, but my daughter and I rode down on the train and it was a lovely trip.

Both of those manuals you linked to are good reference for you.  The 1932 book covers both 1932 and 1933.  The company just sent out replacement pages in 1933 to be inserted into the 1932 manual to cover both years.  That one on eBay appears to have been updated in that regard.

The engines were pretty similar from 1930 through 1933.  Carburetors were changed to Detroit Lubricator in 1932. Vacuum tanks on the firewall were replaced by a mechanical fuel pump mounted on the side of the crankcase casting.  The location and design of the oil filter changed.  Air filter/intake muffler units were installed in place of the old open air horns.  The flat-top distributor was replaced by a conventional one with towers to which the plug wires attached.  The vacuum pump on the top of the bell housing was a diaphragm type for '32 and '33, instead of the former piston type. 

The frames for the 1930-31 cars differ in some design details from those of the 1932 and 1933 cars.  Comparing shop manual diagrams will illustrate that.  Besides that, the shocks for '32 and '33 were adjustable, and the front wheel brake activation mechanism was different from that on the 1930-1931 V16s.  There was a free-wheeling mechanism introduced on the 1932 cars.  Also, the way the engines mounted to the frame (and the transmission to the frame cross member) changed in 1932.

My e-mail address is in the CLC directory.  If you e-mail me, on Monday I will try to send you some illustrative material.

Otherwise, let me know if you have questions.

Best regards,

Chris
Title: Re: 1930 to 1933 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 14, 2019, 05:13:30 AM
Hi Chris

An email is in preparation for you!
Title: Re: 1930 to 1933 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 15, 2019, 12:39:25 PM
New dilemma: there is effectively a 1930 V-16 in Switzerland...I don't know yet how easy it will be available for dimensions; I have to speak with the owner.
Title: Re: 1930 to 1933 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 25, 2019, 01:10:41 PM
For various reasons, I decided to do the 1932 frame and engine. I don't expect to begin before the autumn; I hope to have enough data till that time.
Title: Re: 1930 to 1933 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Ross Morgan #22943 on August 03, 2019, 06:49:34 AM
Roger, sorry this is a late notice but I only jump on the forum from time to time (I tend to use fbook a lot). If there is anything I can help you with, let me know - you have my contact details. I wont though, be able to assist with 1932!  Thanks, Ross
Title: Re: 1930 to 1933 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 03, 2019, 06:59:33 AM
Ross, thanks for the offered help, I do appreciate it! Depending on what will happen the next 10 days, I may come to you. As I'm not at all on fbook, I cannot communicate with this system, but I have your contact details.
Thanks again!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on September 10, 2019, 03:26:26 AM
There is some progress with that project. I have the repro shop manual and parts book; early August, Christine and me drove 530 miles one way to measure and take pictures from a 1933 V-16 frame and engine, just before the body was put on the frame. As usual when so many dimensions can be have, I forgot some essential ones, but I will survive.
I will indeed begin with the wheels. On the 3 other models I did, there were just steel wheels reproduced in brass and, for the Toronado, with aluminum. This is quite different for this model: wire wheels. They are much more complex than usual wheels; this will be an adventure in itself!
Due to other things I have now, I'm slow to begin the construction. I began the first part on September 8, a front hub, which is now in fabrication. The attached picture is showing it, but the part is not yet finished.

A moderator will certainly tell me if I can continue this story in the "general discussion" or if it has to move somewhere else.

1 front hub.jpg
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 08, 2019, 11:31:08 AM
I'm switching between the dash work from my '72 CdV and now the construction from that scale model. The 4 hubs are done and I began the drums. All four are the same wich is a simplification. As usual, I'm working with brass, a so super material on a small lathe! The raw slice has a weight of 120 grams; the finished drum has a weight of 14 grams! They would be perfect candidates for casting, unfortunately, I'm not able to do that.

The first drum is almost finished: I must add 8 reinforcement ribs; they will be done when the other 3 drums are born.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 18, 2019, 06:02:01 AM
The 4 drums are ready (minus the 8 ribs which will be added later) and attached temporarily with the hubs. The hubs themselves are far from ready; an original assembly is also shown.
I began with the wheel's hubs, a difficult task. Those parts are stamped steel, I have to do them on the lathe with multiple operations and tool changes. The rear inner side from the first hub is ready; some work with hand held chisel is required which can be dangerous as you may imagine.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: goob on October 18, 2019, 08:28:15 AM
Roger - It's always a treat to see your work. It makes me remember all those years ago at the start of the Continental Mark II build! Keep up the great work and please keep us updated with pictures.

Gary
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 18, 2019, 08:58:46 AM
Thanks Gary! During wintertime, the updates will be more often. Right now, I'm playing with my "new" car, a '72 CdV.
The begin of the Continental? It's a long time ago!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 19, 2019, 10:02:10 AM
The rear part of the hub for the six wheels is done. To help to understand what I'm trying to replicate, I'm adding a picture from a real wheel. Now, I will begin to machine the hub's front.
To facilitate the manufacturing, I'm doing on each part the same group of operations. I just hope that I will not have bad surprises!

5 Carving the hub.jpgDSC01455.JPGIMG_0844.jpg
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Mike Josephic CLC #3877 on October 19, 2019, 11:51:14 PM
Hello Roger!

I recalled that you once told me you made models.  I
had no idea that you were making 1:12 models from
scratch!  I looked through the pictures of the Lincoln.

Your work is truly outstanding.  I can see why it takes
about 10 years to complete one of these.  Such detail
in a model I've never seen before.  You have a very high
level of patience.

I'm looking forward to following your work on the V-16
chassis.

Best regards,

Mike
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on October 20, 2019, 12:51:43 AM
Roger your work and that story about the building of the '56 Lincoln still blows me away.  Not much surprises me anymore but that did and still does! Great, great work. Keep us posted. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 20, 2019, 03:44:27 AM
Thanks for the comments! Mike, I'm not surprised that you were not aware that I did the models from scratch. Who is doing that nowadays?
When I began the Mark II, I wrote also about that "Lincoln". I was quickly corrected because for a shot period of time, Continental was a stand alone brand. Sure, engine and transmission were pure Lincoln, as well as the front suspension.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 20, 2019, 12:42:14 PM
Sometimes it's good to wait to perform some task. While the drums were in work, I wanted to do the 8 (!) holes per wheel for the studs. I'm now glad I did them not.
While I began to machine the first wheel hub at the front, I had to modify some dimensions. With the calculated bolt circle, it would have been very difficult to "torque" the nuts because they would be very near from the hub's outer diameter. Therefore, I reduced a tad the bold circle and, instead of the 1.2 mm studs, I will use smaller ones: 1 mm. With eight per wheel, the risk to loose a wheel is reduced!
I also enlarged the aperture for the hub cap by 1 mm to have a better access to the wheel nuts.
If you are looking at the attached picture and older ones, you will notice that I'm using now a 4-jaws chuck. I had to do the change because with the original one (which is well worn), I could not have a piece turning true.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 23, 2019, 03:17:46 AM
The wheel hubs were machined inside; to work the outside, I had to make a special tool. The hubs will be attached with the studs to the tool and then the work at the outside will be possible. This may be abstract for the moment; you will understand when I can show the process. The first picture is the tool almost ready.
On that picture, you can see that I'm machining a cone. I suppose that the wire wheels were rather flexible and unstable; the hub with the bearings has the same cone (not so wide) and the wheel hub is resting on that cone to enhance the stability. I attempted to reproduce this characteristic, however, for the usage of the model, this extra work is more a futility than a real need. 

As I had to do the threaded holes into te tool, I used the opportunity to use the setting of the drilling machine to drill the needed holes into the drums and wheel hubs. There were a lot of holes: 6 wheel hubs @ 8 holes, 4 drums @ 8 holes and the special tool also with 8 holes!
The reduced bolt circle is exactly what I expected; I will have room into the wheel hubs to "torque" the nuts attaching the wheels.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 25, 2019, 07:36:26 AM
Still using the lathe...I'm adding the picture showing the drum's drilling. When this was done, I began to machine the wheel hubs. Now, you can see for what the special tool is used; the lathe was not turning when I took the picture because the tool must be hold with both hands. The last picture is showing an almost finished wheel hub. Why "almost"? Because there are 40 holes for the spokes which must be drilled.
I began each wheel hub using a bit of brass weighting 80 grams. The finished part has a weight of 6 grams! I cannot say that it's very economical!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: INTMD8 on October 25, 2019, 12:07:58 PM
As always, amazing work!  Thanks for posting  ;D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 25, 2019, 12:32:58 PM
You are welcome Jim! It seems that you like what I'm doing!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on October 25, 2019, 08:25:24 PM
Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on October 25, 2019, 07:36:26 AM
I began each wheel hub using a bit of brass weighting 80 grams. The finished part has a weight of 6 grams! I cannot say that it's very economical! 
There has to be a way of collecting the shavings/millings and recycling?

Could be a good project for a later day?

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 26, 2019, 02:58:37 AM
Maybe. But you probably know Bruce, that the wheels/tires construction in a scale model is what is creating the most waste, at least the way I'm doing them. This is way different for the other parts. Many years ago, I saved as much waste as possible to recycle it. Finally I stayed sitting with my brass and throw it away.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 29, 2019, 08:00:33 AM
After I finished the wheel hubs, I saw that I did a mistake at the drums. When the wheel is installed on the drum, the wheel hub is going into a recess from the drum, with a small gap between hub and drum. The gap I had was way out of line. What to do? redo again 4 drums? No. I cut a band of brass, shaped it like a ring and soldered on the drum. On the attached picture, the joint can be seen; once paint will be applied, this misshapen will not be seen. The fin is on the right, ready to be soldered.
I milled 8 slots into the drum to help for the location of the reinforcement fins. I realized then that those fins are very small and difficult to held for soldering. Therefore, for the next parts, I did the fins much longer and milled a fracture groove. The tail is a help to handle the part during doing it and to held the fins during soldering. Once soldered, the tail can be broken away. I now have just 30 to do!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 02, 2019, 12:54:56 PM
The drums are now ready; I had almost more time to do the fins and solder them to the drums as turning the drums themselves (but with lass waste!). The hubs are now attached to the drums; it will allow me to continue the details on the hubs; an original one can be seen on post #18.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on November 02, 2019, 07:03:22 PM
True craftsmanship.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Glen on November 03, 2019, 01:06:46 AM
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on November 02, 2019, 07:03:22 PM
True craftsmanship.

Bruce. >:D

I agree.  I can use a lathe, but this is way beyond my skill set.  Excellent work. 
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 03, 2019, 03:12:13 AM
Thanks both for your comments!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 04, 2019, 06:40:20 AM
If November is the season's end for old cars driving, it's now the good season for modelling! The original hubs are made with cast iron; as I cannot cast parts, I have to machine them to try to give the same aspect; this is what I began. The first picture is showing the hub in work with a dentist mill. The second picture is showing a finished hub. Indeed, I could spare this work because once the wheel is installed, the hub cannot be seen!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 06, 2019, 11:39:09 AM
With the drums, hubs and wheel hubs ready, the logical continuation is the rims. By accident, I discovered  that the original wheel I had during my stay in Germany was most probably from a V-12 car (18" for the V-16 and 17" for the V-12). By making comparisons with the excellent drawing in the shop manual, I saw that the proportions are not right. Further, by substracting from the nominal wheel diameter the exterior rim diameter, I came to an absurd thickness for the sheetmetal. Suddenly, my wheels have an increased diameter of 2mm (a difference of 1" is giving 2 mm at this scale)! By chance, I did the verification before all was finished!
This discrepancy is explaining why I had a too large pocket diameter at the drum: the wheel hubs are also different! No, I will not do 6 new wheel hubs, nobody will notice that error.
In my material, I found a "tube" made with brass. I will have to take away some material (the tube has a weight of 1.1kg); I had to close one end to be able to reduce the outside diameter. This is what you can see on the first picture.
That huge piece of brass is totally disproportioned compared to the lathe!
If you are good looking at the last picture, you can see metal chips near the cutting tool: this small machine has an automatic advance which I very seldom use; after I cleaned the old grease, I could let it do the work. Between each cut, I must let cool the machine...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on November 06, 2019, 06:28:47 PM
Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on November 06, 2019, 11:39:09 AM
This discrepancy is explaining why I had a too large pocket diameter at the drum: the wheel hubs are also different! No, I will not do 6 new wheel hubs, nobody will notice that error. 
We will.   But, will forgive you.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on November 06, 2019, 06:34:56 PM
Roger,

You are a man of infinite patience........After that problem I'd have to put the tools down and go for a few drinks.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: 35-709 on November 06, 2019, 06:48:30 PM
Me too!  But maybe he did just that!   ;D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 07, 2019, 02:34:31 AM
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on November 06, 2019, 06:28:47 PM
We will.   But, will forgive you.

Thanks Bruce, I do appreciate your noble attitude!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 07, 2019, 02:38:36 AM
Quote from: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on November 06, 2019, 06:34:56 PM

You are a man of infinite patience........After that problem I'd have to put the tools down and go for a few drinks.
Yes, Ralph, I believe I have more that the average people! About that problem? I don't worry: my other models are full of errors! Sometimes I'm telling about that, sometimes not…
The drink(s)? Of course, it's part of the life, but only after the "shop" is closed!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 07, 2019, 11:32:44 AM
That huge tube is now over. When the outside diameter was OK for me (it's larger then necessary, it will be turned down when I'm doing the rims), I did deep grooves into the cylinder. As my tool is not allowing to go deep enough, I went further with a hand tool and finish the job with a saw blade, one by one.
Now I have 6 rims to machine, will be busy for some time!
The reason about the smaller diameter for the wheel hubs is now known: the frame I measured and took pictures is from 1933; the wheels are 17" and not 18" like 1932. Thanks Johan for the explanation!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 10, 2019, 07:23:34 AM
The rims are in work. As the shape is what it is, there is a lot of work. One is almost ready; the second one is in work. One side is ready, I have to do the other one by using a different chuck to grab the part at its outside diameter.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 12, 2019, 05:40:36 AM
The remaining 5 rims are machined on one side. On the picture, the machined side is shown on 3 rims, the other ones are "upside down" to show what I have to do on all rims.
Recently, I ordered brass rods to make the spokes. Then the real fun will begin!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 16, 2019, 12:44:16 PM
A few days ago, I began to machine the other side of the rims, hoping that my calculation was correct and that enough metal is still there!
Apparently, all went well. The zone where the spokes will be installed at the rim is rather thin, maybe .5mm or less. As my caliper is too wide for the central groove, I had to rely on the sketch I did.
The second picture is showing how the rim is machined with a hand tool.
The problem to machine the other side of the rim was to have as concentric as possible; I hate when machined parts are turning like eggs! For that, some imagination is required; this time a bit of paper was needed to have both sides turning true (third picture).
Now, the rims are done, the wheel hubs are done, the spokes must go in! Well, before I'm drilling both parts with 40 holes each, I have to make a jig to install the spokes. From a scale model forum I got a good idea which I modified for my needs.
Basically, the rim is held on the jig with 3 clamps and guided bat the inside diameter of the rim. The wheel hub is attached in the center with 4 bolts and positioned by the central hole from the hub.
The next step: drilling the holes for the spokes at the rims (rather easy) and at the hubs which will be more difficult because the holes are not perpendicular to the surface. How many drills will be broken until I'm finding the right way to drill?
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on November 16, 2019, 06:22:42 PM
Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on November 16, 2019, 12:44:16 PM
The next step: drilling the holes for the spokes at the rims (rather easy) and at the hubs which will be more difficult because the holes are not perpendicular to the surface. How many drills will be broken until I'm finding the right way to drill? 
Me thinks you will need to fabricate a steel jig, or two, with the holes at the correct angle, so that when it is placed up against the rim/hub, the flutes of the drill will seamlessly transpose from the steel guide, into the brass part, without chattering.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Bob Hoffmann CLC#96 on November 16, 2019, 06:32:21 PM
Rodger, I'm impressed with your work. Just a reminder, the stock spokes had a bend in them & were welded into the rim. The optional stainless steel spokes were straight & held to the rim with special nuts.
Bob
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 17, 2019, 03:25:30 AM
@ Bruce: good idea with the guide for the drill, thanks! It's something to think about it. It could be a tube; the holes will be between 0.6 and 0.65mm (0.024 - 0.026").

@ Bob: thanks for your comments! I'm doing the standard wheels with the welded spokes. From the sop manual and various pictures, I saw that the are bent at the rim; I ignored that there was an option with stainless spokes. For a scale model this option would be difficult to realize: the hub and rim must be painted before the installation of the spokes. The spokes themselves cannot be screwed like the real ones and obviously not soft soldered because this would ruin the paint!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 17, 2019, 01:13:51 PM
The rims are drilled without problem, but it was the easy part because the holes are perpendicular to the surface. I predrill anyway all the holes with a stronger drill and did the holes with a more flexible drill; it's more work but the safe way.
The next will be a lot of fun as the angles are compounded.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 20, 2019, 03:12:43 AM
As I anticipated, drilling the wheel hubs was not as easy as the same operation for the rims. I used one afternoon to evaluate the correct angles and for the set-up of the machine. As there are angles on both axis, I had to imagine how I could get the second one without too much trouble: a rigid piece of cardboard was put at the back of the drilling press, used as a reference line; with that, I could put the arm at the angle I wanted with another piece of carboard as a guide. As the holes are a bit larger than the spokes, a 100% precision is not needed.
As you can see from the pictures, the holes are drilled at a daunting angle. To avoid drilling waste, each hole is done in 3 steps: first a tiny milling cutter diameter 0.5mm is used to have a flat surface for the next step. Then, a pre-hole is done with a rigid drill diameter 0.7mm and finally the hole diameter 0.6mm is done with a flexible drill. If I had the same type of drill for the final hole as I'm using for the step #2, I could spare one operation. On the other side, the larger pre-hole is allowing some movement for the spokes during the installation.
I had some trouble with the second set of holes at the back of the hub. As the machine is too small, I had to do another set-up and I saw that I'm doing the second set of holes at the same direction as for the first set. I could correct the error before it was too late.
I'm still not sure if I will be able to drill the holes on the small diameter of the hubs as the angles are quite different but the machine still the same size...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 23, 2019, 06:34:25 AM
All the holes into the hubs are done; I'm glad it's over! After the first row at the large diameter, I had to drill the second row which holes, if I'm right, are between the holes from the other row. The difficulty was to find the right spot to drill; unfortunately, there are some differences between the hubs. Maybe this will not be evident at the first glance.
The next task was to drill the holes at the smaller diameter from the hub. As the spoke’s geometry is different than the one for the rear spokes, the angle at which the holes must be drilled is more challenging than for the rear.
I began with the row situated near the end of the hub. By looking at the shop manual’s drawing, it was obvious that the holes cannot be drilled completely through the metal because they would be outside the surface covered by the hubcap. On the other side, this is almost a benefit: I must not solder the spokes at this location, only at the rim.
The second row at the smaller diameter from the hub is also specific; the holes are very near from the ones from the outside row.
The various pictures are showing how I had to deal with my small machine; for one operation, I had to leave the bead from the machine alone to avoid an interference with the electric motor.
About the motor: lately, it had a lot to do; while drilling the outside rows, it began to act like there was not enough fuel! In fact, one of the brushes was worn and did no more contact the commutator. Fortunately, I had one on stock and could replace it to finish the drilling. I could be a good idea to order another set…
Finally, all the drills are still in good condition, nothing broke!

Now, the real fun will begin with the spokes.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 24, 2019, 12:26:59 PM
The first wheel is done!
At first, I thought that the spokes having an elbow would simplify the construction. Well, not exactly: the spokes must be at the right length because when the elbow is going through the hole at the rim, the spoke must be almost at the appropriate hole at the hub. Well, it took a long time for the first one; now I have recorded the length from the 4 different spokes, this will simplify the assembly for the next wheels.
It seems that my device to hold hub and rim was a good design: the finished wheel is turning perfectly true!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: 35-709 on November 24, 2019, 12:47:46 PM
Wow!   :)
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: David King (kz78hy) on November 24, 2019, 12:50:03 PM
Good to know they are true and capable of 100 KPH.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on November 24, 2019, 07:09:31 PM
Truly beautiful.

Now you have to make a tyre fitting machine small enough to mount the tyres onto the completed rims.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: 35-709 on November 24, 2019, 07:49:01 PM
 ;D  Yes, and I want to see it!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 25, 2019, 04:08:06 AM
Thanks for the comments, I do appreciate them! However, I will not build a tire fitting machine as my tires (they are not yet born for this model) are not requiring a machine; the fingers alone are sufficient!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 26, 2019, 05:48:16 AM
From another forum I had a question how I'm doing to indexing the hub and rim at the beginning. Maybe my answer will interest some of you.

First, I'm installing the hub on the tool. Then, I'm searching which holes are a pair. When I have that, I'm doing a dot on the tool with a black marquer; in the first picture, the dot is more or less at 6 o'clock. Then, I'm assembling a pair of spokes (or 2 on the second picture) when the rim is added. When the first pair is installed, I can turn the rim to have the spokes centered; when they are at the place I like, I'm screwing the 3 screws at the outside rim's diameter, preventing it to turn.  After that,  I'm continuing with the first row, then the second, third and fourth. On the third picture, some future spokes are laying next to the tool. They must be bent and filed at the proper length.


By the way, I had an incident during the soldering of the second wheel: one spoke from the first row went out at the hub and I had some difficulties to reinsert it again. For this reason, I modified the tool by carving a groove where the spokes from the first row are emerging. The groove is allowing the spokes to go further into the hub to prevent the incident.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: spolij on November 26, 2019, 07:14:12 AM
Roger do you do work with molds. I'm trying to make a new part for my cruise control. It's a plastic piece with gear teeth on it.
The material i'm working with is not working.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 26, 2019, 07:42:36 AM
It's a great difference between a mostly unfunctional scale model and a gear wich must have some physical characteristics. If I had to do a gear, I will not mold it but machine it or let do it with a 3-D printer. I suppose the original part was done with injected plastic into a metal mold.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 01, 2019, 10:51:38 AM
All the wheels are done. I still have to add the tire valve; the hole for it is done. On the picture, the back side from two wheels is shown.
During the work, my super tool "Dremel Stylus" went north (or south?): by grinding the spokes at the rear of one wheel, suddenly the machine went full speed, the rotating knob to modify the speed ad no effect and I could not stop the machine! I let it run and run until the battery was empty. I opened it later (I'm curious) and saw, at the speed regulator a black electronic component which has an obvious mark of overheating.
Could be it repaired? Maybe but not by me! I ordered another one.
What's next? I just don't know, there is so much to do!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: 57eldoking on December 01, 2019, 10:59:26 AM
Truly outstanding Roger, your skills continue to impress!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 01, 2019, 11:02:10 AM
Thanks Henning!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on December 01, 2019, 06:22:13 PM
Beautiful, and you are building the model with 6 wheel equipment?

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Mike Baillargeon #15848 on December 01, 2019, 06:44:20 PM
Unbelievable Workmanship !!.....wow just wow !!!

Yes 6 Wheels....gotta have the side-mounts....roads are ruff out there....

Mike
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 02, 2019, 02:41:56 AM
The plan is the following: I'm doing first the frame and engine; I will be busy for some time. If I'm still fit, hood, grille and fenders are coming next. Therefore, the 2 supplementary wheels as side-mount spares.
Thanks for your comments!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 03, 2019, 12:42:59 PM
The front axle is what I will do next. Usually, live front axles have a section like a H (turned at 90°), but, as it's a casting, the ends towards the wheels are thicker. I'm beginning that simple, but not so easy to do part, with a flat piece of brass. I will add the needed elements more or less like for a Christmas tree (good timing, isn't it?).
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 05, 2019, 06:43:22 AM
How to silver solder bushings at the end of the axle with  a hint of precision? I solved the problem by including tabs at each end of the axle and milling a groove into each bushing. The tabs are entering the groove without play, allowing to adjust the correct angle and position before silver soldering.
On the picture, both knuckle pins are ready to be put in service; they are at the right diameter to be without play in the bushings.
I can continue now by putting more "clothes" to the axle.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 06, 2019, 12:42:39 PM
This front axle may not be very exciting, but I must do it! I first trimmed the part to be able to silver solder the upper flange of the H (or I) and gave its almost final shape. Now, I'm preparing the parts which will be silver soldered on each side to have the correct thickness. If my explanation is obscure, the picture which will come soon will explain better.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on December 06, 2019, 06:54:16 PM
G'day Roger,

I love the way things come together, and yes, sometimes the "excitement" isn't immediately obvious, but it takes small steps to move to ultimate completion.

Having pictures is a wonderful habit to get into, now that we have Digital Cameras, and the more the merrier.   People used to wonder why I took so many pictures, even way back when the cameras only took film in rolls, and even before that, on glass plates.   Without that history, we all would still be using paper and paint with brushes.

Keep them coming, no matter how seemingly small the operation takes to construct.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 07, 2019, 05:34:35 AM
Indeed, Bruce, I do regret that I did not more pictures when I restored my cars. It was partly a cost factor as I had a camera with a film in roll. On the other side, I don't want to "pollute" the forum with insignificant progress for most viewers.
As you created or restored many cars, you have a different approach!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on December 07, 2019, 05:52:02 PM
I also treat the pictures as a Reference Library, and look back on them as one cannot always remember what one did to create something from odd parts.

Plus, when someone wants to see things that they cannot find, someone else will have a picture of that.

At the moment, I am rebuilding some roof jacks for a Ford Skyliner (1959) and as these jacks were built in such a way that they were not meant to be repaired, I am taking pictures of how I am rebuilding them.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: 6caddy2 on December 07, 2019, 08:20:12 PM
Love your work Mr. Zimmerman, impeccable Sir!!! Just outstanding craftmanship!!! I like the write ups, as reading is good exercise for the brain, the photos of course are a plus too!! They say a photo is worth a thousand words... but without words, what would the photo be worth?! I look forward to your postings of this build, takes me back to when I glued plastic models together as a kid, and thought, wow this great, then to see your hand at work from bone stock brass, to pieces of art!!! Truly a gift from the Gods!

Thank you for your time in posting your work, talent, joy, and probably a few choice words muttered, on this fantastic build!!! Look forward to the next update!!
                     Joe
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Mike Josephic CLC #3877 on December 08, 2019, 01:58:50 AM
Hello Roger:

The wheels have turned out beautifully.  You have
the extraordinary patience and the talent to match. 
I know we're all looking forward to seeing the
continuing progress.  Keep the pictures coming!

Any by the way, best Holidays to you and your
family.

Mike
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 08, 2019, 11:30:30 AM
@ Bruce: knowing your ability to restore things, I have no doubts that these jacks will be functioning again! Those cars are really difficult to maintain properly.

@Joe: It seems that you are appreciating (like others) what I'm doing! Yes, sometimes dirty words are sounding into the flat…My pictures most of the time are helping to understand my sometimes strange explanation!

@ Mike: at first I was not confident about those wheels; when there is a will, there is a result! As a bonus, the holes drilles at curious angles were relatively well positioned.

I can now show what I tried to explain recently. 4 filling pieces were more or less correctly adjusted to the existing axle. To help for the right location during the silver soldering, the pieces were riveted to the axle. Now, I have to trim the assembly to the final shape; the second flange forming the H will be the last part which will be silver soldered. There will be several minor details which will be soft soldered as the are just for the fun.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 12, 2019, 10:36:09 AM
The front axle is almost ready. Since the last report, I silver soldered the lower flange, added a sole or shoe (maybe there is a better word) at the location for the front springs, trimmed the whole axle and lastly added the four tiny pieces at each end of the axle. Two will get the grease fitting; the other two are staying closed. These four parts took a long time: I had to drill them, put a pin, drill the axle to accept the pins. Without that, I would not be able to soft solder them at the right place or the one soldered would get misplaced while soldering the one the other side of the axle.
What is missing? Again 2 tiny parts which are acting as a steering stop. Only when the brake shield will be done I will see the exact location; they will be soldered with the same method as the four ones, with a pin.
What is coming next? Logically, the knuckles. Here we go! 
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on December 12, 2019, 06:09:05 PM
Again, truly perfection.

I thought I was looking at an original forged axle.   Sometimes parts are just too good to cover up with paint, but it has to be done.

When I purchased my first Full Spool for my Dragster, it was so beautiful that I laughingly said that I should place a clear window in the back of the diff housing, so it could be seen.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 13, 2019, 04:48:05 AM
Illusion, illusion! This is all what modeling is trying to do.

Well, Bruce, it may look perfect in picture, but it's not. I still don't have a machine to reduce objects!
The steering knuckles are more difficult to do as I supposed. Maybe my brain is still able to evaluate the less complicated solution.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 15, 2019, 08:55:57 AM
There are sometimes parts I don't know how to begin them. The knuckles are a good example. I did first the shafts but I had to modify my plan: the first idea was to have "bearings" in steel as large as possible therefore the hub would be rotating over the fixed very large shaft. This solution is not at all practical as I could not take easily the drum from the model.
Consequently, I did 2 shafts in mild steel and "bearings" in brass pressed into the hubs. The shafts will then be silver soldered into the knuckles. I then took the largest bit of brass I had, trying to machine all the needed details out of it. Unfortunately, I discovered that the bit is not thick enough! Therefore the attaching channel for the steering knuckle arm will be a separate element silver soldered to the main part.
But how to begin? Drill the hole to attach the shaft or drill the holes for the knuckle pin? I opted for the second possibility with the hope that the hole for the shaft will be at the correct angle to have the front wheel with a very slight positive camber.
As it can be seen on the picture, there is still a lot to do!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 18, 2019, 06:16:26 AM
When I began the wheels, I thought that I would need months to complete them. In fact, the job went much quicker than that. This is quite the opposite with the knuckles, they are still in fabrication. During milling, I suspect that the milling bit was not tight enough and went down. The result: a scraped part which can be seen on the left on the second picture.
As you may see, there is still some work till completion!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on December 18, 2019, 06:24:22 PM
Thankfully you are human, like the rest of us.   And willing to show the bad, as well as the good.

Nothing worse, at the time, than a loose part/tool, but thankfully, nobody got hurt.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 19, 2019, 06:12:15 AM
Like everybody, I'm doing mistakes! It's never fun when a part must be discarded after some hours working on it, but that's life; you certainly know that too!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 20, 2019, 01:23:43 PM
Finally, the steering knuckles are ready. There was a lot of machining, silver soldering and filing. I just have a regret: the steering arms are attached with 2 bolts to the knuckles; to have a flat surface for the head's bolts, a counterbore is provided at the knuckle's mounting point. Unfortunately, I cannot do that; I just could provide a flat surface. I don't know how this was done in production because the upper part of the knuckle is in the way. Maybe from the other side with a special tool?
What I still have to do is the device to adjust the play; the original knuckles having an upper and a lower ball bearing. Of course, my device will be just here for the show.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on December 20, 2019, 08:28:52 PM
Very nice as always Roger. Your work always blows me away. I hope we get to meet one day. I would have a lot of questions on your model building. Merry Christmas to you, your family and all our CLC family. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 21, 2019, 01:34:41 PM
Thanks Clay! Well it seems that only mountains do not meet! If I can answer some of your questions here, please free to ask. However, sometimes the answers are easier with some material or tools in the hands.

The knuckles are now ready with the addition of the adjusting device. Of course mine is not functional. You can see that the surfacer from the axle is already damaged. That's not a problem; in due time it will get a new coat. The goal was to cover the surfaces with are difficult to clean.  What's next? Well, Christmas is almost at the door!

Enjoy that period of the year!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 24, 2019, 12:08:03 PM
What could I do next? Rather logically, the brake shields should logically be next because they are attached to the knuckles. But now, I'm doing the rear ones! Too much red wine lately? No! the reason is that the rear shields are rather simple and the front ones are more complex. The outside diameter is the same, that's all.
The dies I did are modified dies used for the Mark II wheel covers. Once the real shields ready, those dies will be modified to do the front ones, sparing that way a lot of material.
The dies are on the first picture.
The second one is showing my method to press the brass with the dies.
I was glad to see that the first shield went out without problem; the surface had some waves which could be almost eliminated by rubbing the high spots with a hammer. Unfortunately, the second shield developed a crack as you can see on the next picture. Doing another one is not a guarantee of success, therefore, I repaired the crack by silver soldering a piece of brass inserted into the crack.
The next operation was to shape the outer flange; unfortunately this picture is no good but both shields were already finished as shown on the last picture (only one was pictured). The flange is shaped with a hammer on the die as making another tool just for that was a waste of resources. A small hammer can do wonders!
Later, these shields will be adjusted on the rear axle; the 6 attaching holes drilled, plus a number of parts for the brakes will be added. I just can say that mechanical brakes are very complex, compared to the hydraulic ones. The bonus: I may have the brakes functional on all 4 wheels.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: DeVille68 on December 26, 2019, 09:14:52 AM
wow!
I can't respond with anything helpful, but keep on posting because I read your updates and progress with much interest.
Best regards,
Nicolas
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 26, 2019, 01:09:46 PM
Thanks Nicolas! Unless you have the same car as I'm attempting to replicate, you cannot help a lot!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 30, 2019, 01:22:00 PM
After the rear brake shields were ready, it was time to modify the dies to press the front shields. At first, I was thinking that the shape is easy; well it was the case to do the separate male insert. The female job was not that easy. The almost rectangular cavity could be milled, but the half round one was more difficult to get. Milling was not an option, at least not with my basic machine. I removed almost all the metal with grinding and finished it with a hand tool, shaving the brass until the insert was flush with the flat surface.
The male insert was then attached to the other die with a screw.
Then came the moment of truth: will the brass be torn as the cavity is rather deep? Nothing bad happened at mid way, but at the end it was torn at the end of the cavity. To repair it, I cut the damaged spot, pressed a bit brass, adjusted and silver soldered it. This repair took much more time than pressing the shield!
Now, I have to do the second one; most probably the same damage will occur; then I can show with a picture or two what I intended to explain.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 01, 2020, 11:35:56 AM
Happy New Year to all!
The end of 2019 was not kind with my front brake shields, I will relate it later. First I'm showing the various steps to shape the second brake shield. I prepared a piece of brass large enough; drilled some small holes to prevent too much damage, first picture. After 1/3 stroke, I checked how the metal is taking its new shape; no problem to report; this is the second picture. At 2/3 of the stroke, the metal is already torn at one end (third picture). Dies builder is a profession; probably there is a method to avoid the issue (choice of metal, various steps, etc.).
Once completely pressed, the damage is obvious, but smaller than with the first shield, fourth picture. A patch will be silver soldered anyway.
I began then to trim the center, to make the needed space for the knuckle. The first problem I encountered was with the shape of the recess at the top: I did the corner's cuts at 45° and I could not put the knuckle high enough! By looking at the pictures I have, I saw that the corners are at about 25 to 30°. I modified both dies to the new shape and I tried to rework the shields by pressing them again. No problem, the brass was soft enough to accept the new shape. Then, I could finish the aperture for the knuckle. I put a drum on the "assembly" (the shield being just pushed on the knuckle) to note that the drum is resting on the brake shield! What to do to get those 0.5mm interference away?
Well, the first step was to modify the ears on which the shields are attached by removing 0.25mm. More was not advisable because they were 0.7mm thick. Then, I modify the dies once more by carving the recess by an additional 0.2mm. Here again, I got no protest from the shields and no damage.
The third step I will do is to modify the inside of the drums to have just enough clearance.
I assembled a brake shield on a knuckle (fifth picture); I still have a slight interference; the drums modification will get rid of that.
While I was with the camera, I redid a picture showing how the flange are shaped with a small hammer; this is the last picture.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 13, 2020, 08:41:30 AM
During our short vacation in France, I took the raw material which will be the pattern to shape the frame and I began to work on it. It's 5mm thick, therefore, I cannot prepare it at home, I have no suitable vise. That piece of brass is 420 mm long or 16.6"
Back home, I'm continuing the brake shields by adding the various element to make the brakes operable.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Cadman-iac on January 13, 2020, 09:21:49 AM
Roger,  that Lincoln is beautiful! Wonderful craftsmanship. I wish I had the patience to do something like that.
Can't wait to see how the Cadillac comes out. Fab on!!!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 13, 2020, 09:55:11 AM
Thanks Richard! Ah, the patience: either you have it or you don't. However, some is needed to restore cars scale 1:1!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Bill Young on January 13, 2020, 10:19:11 AM
I Love scale modeling and admire others skills. I work in wood modeling the Great North Atlantic Ocean Liners in large scale. The Normandie model scratch built by me is 7 feet long and set up for radio control. Build time 7 months.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 13, 2020, 10:24:15 AM
Nice ship, Bill! I could not build it at home, my room is too small! I hope that you will not have to remove the pictures as the ship is not a Cadillac!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Cadman-iac on January 13, 2020, 12:35:35 PM
Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on January 13, 2020, 09:55:11 AM
Thanks Richard! Ah, the patience: either you have it or you don't. However, some is needed to restore cars scale 1:1!
Very true! I'd like to think I have enough to get mine done.  So far....
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Cadman-iac on January 13, 2020, 12:38:16 PM
Quote from: Bill Young on January 13, 2020, 10:19:11 AM
I Love scale modeling and admire others skills. I work in wood modeling the Great North Atlantic Ocean Liners in large scale. The Normandie model scratch built by me is 7 feet long and set up for radio control. Build time 7 months.
Beautiful  job Bill. I admire people who can do that stuff.  Must be a joy to use.
Rick
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Bill Young on January 13, 2020, 10:19:59 PM
Thank You Gentlemen for your kind words. I have Loved Cadillac's especially of the 50's , 60's and 70's all my life. I am now 65. I as well as Ocean Liners also Love English Showmans Engines , New York Central Steam Locomotives , Turn of the century steam tug boats and Mahogany Motor boats.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 15, 2020, 10:15:17 AM
Recently, I added a small shaft for a brake lever at the front brake shields as well as the insert for the bolt limiting the steering angle. One challenge was to drill a 0.4mm for the cotter pin. It's good to practice now because there are a lot of cotter pins on that frame! Then, I began the lever which will be actuated by a cable. I'm adding a picture showing the set-up for the front wheels; the picture is from a restored 1932 V-8 brake shield assembly, which is almost identical to the V-16 one.
To replicate cast parts is taking a lot of time; I was aware of it! As I cannot cast small or large parts, I have to do them differently. The second picture is showing the lever and limiting bolt from the RH brake shield, + the parts which are constituting that lever: a shaft, 3 "bearings". The smaller ones are drilled entirely, the large one only up to the middle. The assembly is done with soft solder. After that, the final holes for the various pins/shaft are drilled. Finally, the width of the assembly will be corrected; to facilitate the construction, the "bearings" are larger (or longer if you like).
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on January 15, 2020, 12:32:42 PM
Roger that is incredible work. Love the updates. And Bill, that ship is awesome. I love all that stuff and always admired those who had the ability to build models like that. Lots of talent in the Club. I always wanted to build models of cars and ships. I did get into some serious builds though. I built a functional life size replica of a 600 year old spanish/moorish/gothic coffered ceiling in my old house. Three years and 1,000 hours labor and more than a quarter of a ton in weight. Solid oak, some oak veneer and lots of ornamental plaster. Did all the woodworking and plaster model making and castings as well. That occupied my time in between vintage Cadillac ownership. These model making and molding & casting skills are relevant to the vintage car restoration world as we often require replication skills to manufacture car parts that are no longer available. Don't think they will pull Bill's Normandie model pics down as there were a lot of Cadillac owners on that ship! Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: INTMD8 on January 15, 2020, 12:37:50 PM
WOW!  Every time I open this thread I'm amazed.  Beautiful work  ;D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 15, 2020, 01:28:41 PM
Thanks for the comments!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Michel 14 on January 18, 2020, 08:26:41 AM
Bravo Roger je m' instale
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 19, 2020, 05:37:30 AM
Cars from this time were rather simple: many parts, pure mechanical devices. Probably not all were so carefully build like Cadillacs were: for example, the lever I pictured recently was installed with a needle bearing on the brake shield. Probably cheaper cars would just have a bronze bushing for the same configuration. The solutions retained were rather logical but to reproduce them on a scale model is another matter.
As an example: I began to reproduce the large lever you can see at the right on the picture of the original assembly. It has a strange shape, but it was very ingenious: the nut at one end was used to finely adjust the brake shoes. This nut pulled or pushed a rod connected to the splined hub, modifying the position of the hub in relation to the lever. 
As my project is to make a rolling frame, many details will be seen. Therefore, I had to reproduce the splined shaft & hub. I will not add the provision to adjust the brakes, because this detail would ad too much complexity at this scale.
The question was: how to do the splines? By chance, I had a milling cutter with the appropriate width. I imagined that I could do a shaft in brass and broach a piece of brass 1.5mm thick. To my satisfaction, the splined shaft was good looking. With a pilot hub, I entered the shaft into the hole of a scrap piece of brass, put the assembly in the wise and put pressure. I saw small bits of brass and was thinking that life is good, the tool is making its way. When the shaft was through, I pushed it back and, to my dismay, I saw that the teeth were just shaved! Obviously, my solution was not good. I reluctantly took a piece of mild steel and did the splines on that shaft. Contrary to my fear, the milling cutter had no trouble to work on that mild steel.
Another hole, another test: still no good: the teeth were still there, but pushed back, creating a bulge. Not good for a part which should have a snug fitting!  I came to the conclusion that broaching can only be done with a tempered steel shaft. My milling cutter will be instantly destroyed if I make an single attempt!
Another brain storming was needed. By chance, I have a large stock of dentist milling tools; the shaft's diameter was near to the desired shaft diameter!
I removed from that milling tool what was not needed and, with a diamond covered disc, I made an approximate splined shaft which was to be used as a first pass. The definitive splined shaft would then finish the female splines.
This time, the whole process was a success. With the tempered shaft, I could do the approximate broaching; the final treatment was done with the shaft which will be used on the model. There is an inconvenient with this method: shaft and lever must be indexed and will not be interchangeable as my machining is not precise enough. This add a bit to the complexity, but as there are only 4 shaft and lever pairs, it can be done. And, fortunately, the parts are the same for the front and rear brakes. 
On the pictures, that lever is just an approximative shape. I wanted first to be sure of the broaching process before doing the final shape.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 22, 2020, 11:20:22 AM
The next task was to shape the levers for the brake cam actuation lever. Those tiny parts required a lot of work as usual. Both parts on the right side have some dots stamped on them as reference mark for the shaft as they are not interchangeable; the line you can see is for the proper indexing for the shaft for the same reason. Once installed on the brake shields, the dots will be on the inner side, therefore they will not be seen. The pins at the end of the shafts will help to locate the cams prior to silver soldering.
I still have to add one or two details to those levers; it will then be the turn to do the bearing for the shafts. On the real vehicle, the bearing is adjustable by loosing a nut and applying the brakes; I think I will skip this feature as the brake shoes will anyway be also adapted to each drum and brake shield. Sure, this practice is contrary to the one of Mr. Leyland; the purpose of my construction is not the same!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on January 22, 2020, 07:20:23 PM
Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on January 22, 2020, 11:20:22 AM
........also adapted to each drum and brake shield. Sure, this practice is contrary to the one of Mr. Leyland; the purpose of my construction is not the same!
I am pretty sure that Mr Leyland would be extremely happy with what you are producing, as we all are.

It is great to be alive and observing what you are doing.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 23, 2020, 07:31:17 AM
Thanks Bruce, I appreciate your comments.

With the addition or a stud, large nut and the locking "spring" for that nut, the first actuating lever is finished. The equalization of the brakes could be done with the large nut at the end of the lever. I don't know if that locking spring was efficient to block the nut; I suppose it was the case as this system was used during some years.  Still 3 to do!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Cadman-iac on January 23, 2020, 10:20:00 AM
So Roger,  you mentioned just making a rolling chassis,  are you not going to make a body for it as well?
From what I've seen here, it would be a beautiful piece. Your work is fantastic!
I would be lucky to replicate stuff in the original size, there's no way I could do what you're doing. I suffer from FFS, otherwise known as Fat Finger Syndrome.
Keep up the good work, it's amazing.

Rick
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 23, 2020, 10:55:17 AM
Thanks for the comments, Rick!
If you go to my profile, you will see my age. That rolling chassis will take some years to be completed but you also know that humans may get ill, suffer from this or that and eventually be definitively away. As I explained somewhere, when I was finishing the Mark II, I decided that it would be the last scale model. After some times, I had enough to do nothing and I began this project which will be, as we say in French, a salami tactic: depending how I am when the rolling chassis is done, I may add this or that. Whon knows, at the end it will be a nice roadster!

Fortunately, I don't suffer from FFS; even if my fingers are no more so agile like they were 10 years ago, I still manage to held tiny parts or screws!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 25, 2020, 10:03:46 AM
Still working on the brake system at the shields and it's not yet over! For those who are not familiar with these very old cars (I was not myself some months ago!), the brake shield at the right is showing how the system is functioning: a cable will be attached at the free eye on the right; to brake, the cable is pulling the lever to the left. The connecting lever is moving the cam lever in the same direction.
The brake shield at the left is seen from behind. The still unborn cam will be soldered to the steel shaft and, by turning, will push both brake shoes towards the drum. Easy!
Are the brake shields ready now? Not quite: still missing is a pin as anchor for an outside return spring; both shoes guides are still unborn as well as the anchor for the cable.
The rear brakes are practically identical. The sole notable difference is the actuation of the cam lever: it's not done with a cable but with a shaft and a lever.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 28, 2020, 09:15:03 AM
On my other models, I did the brake shoes by turning a piece of brass. As only the emergency brake would be functional, I did only the rear brake shoes. On this model, I came to the conclusion that the same approach would create a lot of waste. I decided the make the shoes with flat brass. The picture is showing the parts which will eventually be shaped as brake shoes. The eight half circular parts were initially straight; to cut them with the correct shape from a brass sheet would also create a lot of waste. It took somewhat more time to shape them; time is free!
Now, I will have to shape them according to the original set-up and soft solder the sole (if that word is correct in English).
The brake system will not be a genuine replica of the original one; I have to take liberties and I'm simplifying the system. For example, the floating shoes were made with aluminum because its dilatation was greater than a shoe made with steel, therefore avoiding or retarding the fading of the brakes. I have some doubts that this theory was really effective; the fact is that later brake shoes were all made with steel.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on January 28, 2020, 06:31:00 PM
Ah ha..... now I see why you include a US coin in your photos.   Not for a comparison in size, but the mandrel for the inner circumference of the brake parts.

Bruce. >:D

PS.   Now I know why I am getting such a good price for scrap Brass.   You are creating the need for it. ;)
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 29, 2020, 03:35:58 AM
Well, Bruce, I'm in fact using a different method to make those curves: the flat brass is held firmly into the wise; the edge is getting a good hammer blow. This procedure is repeated a number of times until the shape is more or less good. Some rework with a file is needed, of course! With this method, the scrap brass will decrease its value!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 01, 2020, 12:27:43 PM
Adding functionality to a scale model means that the time spent to make all the parts is increasing dramatically! As I still hope that I can have a model with a functioning service brake means that all details must play together.
After soldering the brake shoes and trimming them, I began to "install" the anchored front shoes (one per side). I did first a large flat support onto the shoe will be anchored. The other side of the shoe is in contact with the cam. By turning that cam, the drum should be stopped. First, I trimmed the free end of the shoe until the drum could be turn more or less freely. Then, I silver soldered the cam on the shaft I showed some time ago. Then, the test: yes, the drum can be stopped with a rather mall movement of the external lever (the one on which the cable will be attached).
The next task will be to trim that flat plate and prepare and fabricate what's needing for the floating shoe.

As the rear brake shields are different, the rear brakes will be done later, probably when the rear axle will be available to position the shields correctly.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 03, 2020, 08:05:51 AM
Even if I'm simplify the brake system a bit, I was faced with a specific problem like "how to avoid that the axles are dislodged?" By soft soldering a washer at the end of the shaft can be a solution (with the risk that the next part is soldered too), but how to do in case something unexpected is happening and the shaft must be removed? Finally, the solution used on the real car is the best I found and I will follow this idea. The next problem was: how to cut a groove 0.3mm wide? By thinking a bit "out of the box", I used a cutting mill, attached it firmly and approached it to the axle. By turning gently, I could do a groove deep enough to inset a similar part like the original.
I'm adding a picture from my machine set-up and one from the original system; the axles are for the link on the right side; the arresting plates are attached with one screw each. This is what I will reproduce.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 04, 2020, 10:03:07 AM
According to a guy in England, my explanation about what I intended to do was confusing. I'm not surprised because sometimes to describe clearly a small story in a foreign language can be hard to understand. Therefore, I'm showing in pictures what I'm doing. First, the parts, especially the axle with the groove and the plate which will be engaged into the grove. Then the assembly, which took about 10 minutes to achieve because the small plate had no envy to stay in place.
A similar plate will be installed at the other end of the link.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 07, 2020, 10:07:57 AM
Finally the first front brake is ready. From another forum, I had the question about the number of parts needed. Here is the detail from all was needed to complete that LH front brake; parts which were soft or silver soldered are included because they had to be cut, adjusted and soldered:

Brake shield: 18
Knuckle: 5
Actuating levers: 18
Brake shoes: 28
Fasteners, various: 15

The 4 cotter pins which will be added during the final assembly are not included.

The good news is that the brake is functioning well, with a minimal travel from the upper lever. I cannot say if both shoes are applied with the same strength to the drum!
Now, I can complete the RH front brake system.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: veesixteen on February 09, 2020, 08:34:11 AM
Is there any wonder our Swiss affiliate member, Roger Zimmerman, was nominated for the "Yann Saunders International Activity Award (YSIAA)" in 2012. The man is a micro-mechanical GENIUS.

I have seen some of his work (full-sized AND miniature) first hand. I've added here some pics of his "restored to perfection" 1956 Eldorado Biarritz, and his  1:12 (?) scale Olds Toronado. I'm guessing this (slowly emerging) V-16 motor in miniature will be among his best pieces ... if not THE best. 

I'm honored to call Roger my friend ... and former Swiss "neighbor".
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 09, 2020, 08:49:13 AM
Thanks Yann! I'm not a genius, only have skilled hands!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: veesixteen on February 09, 2020, 11:50:36 AM
Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on February 09, 2020, 08:49:13 AM
Thanks Yann! I'm not a genius, only have skilled hands!

...and the patience of Job !
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Cadman-iac on February 09, 2020, 06:03:23 PM
Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on February 09, 2020, 08:49:13 AM
Thanks Yann! I'm not a genius, only have skilled hands!

Roger, 
It takes a sharp mind to work those skilled hands!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 12, 2020, 08:01:24 AM
Thanks for the comments!
Now, both front brake assemblies are ready; the other one went quicker to finish as I had something to look at and some parts were already done. It would be tempting to do the rear brakes, but for that, the brake shield must be attached to something which is the rear axle. Therefore, I intend to go for the axle. Compared to the ones I already did, (of course, the one for the Toronado excepted as the car is FWD), the construction is different: for this car, the rear axle housing is constituted with 2 symmetrical stamped steel parts welded at the junction. I will try the same, but I need something to make a die to shape the parts. What I have in brass or wood is either too short or too thin; I'll have to look in my store room what I could use. However, it's too cold there now for that.
As there are other parts for the rear axle, I began with the end of the torque tube (the drive shaft is inside) and the mating part from the diff. If the end of the torque tube is a pure part done on the lathe, its different with the mating element: there are 10 bosses (it's the best word I found for that; is that correct?) for the 10 studs. How can I do that? I did first the tube with a flange on the lathe, noting that this tube is slightly conical.
Then I began to mill indentations; the main purpose of the indentations is to locate the bosses I will silver solder. As the tube with flange is conical, I had to attach it at the end of the torque tube with short screws.
The bosses were adjusted to the indentations and silver soldered when 2 were ready, until all 10 pieces were done. Now, I will have to drill the bosses for the studs.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 14, 2020, 04:43:54 AM
By looking at the differential's pictures I have, something was obvious: the ends of the diff at the wheels are separate parts assembled by welding to the main body. It's not important to know, but I still wonder if the machining was dome before or after welding. For my needs, I choose the solution "before" because the solution "after" is not suitable with my tools.
Therefore, I machined 2 short tubes with the flange for the brake shield; this move will allow me to complete the rear brakes. The correct orientation of the brake shields on the main body will be easy then.
The attached picture is sowing at the top the inside of a drum; a steel bushing was inserted into the hub. On the real cars, this is a ball bearing.
On the left side, there is a view from the inside of a brake shield with a short tube emerging. On the real car, the wheel bearing is installed on that tube; most of the car weight is not carried by the axle shaft but by the differential tube. This arrangement was called 3/4 floating. Heavy trucks have the full floating type where the axle shafts have just the function of transmitting the power. On more recent cars with RWD, the axle shafts are supporting all the weight and transmitting the power.
On the right side, the brake shield is seen from outside; the emerging tube will be inserted into the diff and soft soldered.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: spolij on February 17, 2020, 11:01:11 AM
Your work is amazing. I thought i saw a pic of completed models you've done. can you post a few? Maybe overall, interior, engine under carriage? Do you sell the models or keep them.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 17, 2020, 11:11:44 AM
Thanks John! As you probably know, nobody is allowed to post pictures from another brand, scale model or not. However, you can have a look at some pictures with this link: https://www.mycloud.ch/l/P00BF517DEBF2C9CBD0035DF126D4B83DA36666BCFEBAAB0C28EACB3A40B70E4 
I'm not selling my models, I'm keeping them; who would be fool enough to buy something like that?
You can also see a lot from my 3 models here: https://forums.aaca.org/topic/145354-construction-of-a-continental-mark-ii-model-scale-112/
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 19, 2020, 10:14:43 AM
The rear brakes are actuated differently than the front ones. No cable, but a rotating shaft each side of the differential. At the left from the attached picture, you can see the actuating lever which is the same as for the front and a shaft "pinned" into the brake shield. That shaft has a lever; the connecting between that lever and the actuating one is still to be done. On the right, you can see the other drum and shield assembly with that shaft. The other end of the shaft will get a lever, of course, and it will be guided by a bracket and bearing attached to the differential body.

Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: veesixteen on February 19, 2020, 11:18:26 AM
UNBELIEVABLE !!!  What incredible workmanship !
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Glen on February 20, 2020, 12:52:31 AM
Quote from: veesixteen on February 19, 2020, 11:18:26 AM
UNBELIEVABLE !!!  What incredible workmanship !

That's my thoughts exactly, every time I read this thread. 
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: spolij on February 20, 2020, 10:38:08 AM
Roger the pic's were great thank you. I see a wiring harness in one and i see the headlights work. What else runs on elect?

As for selling i know how you feel. I am sure they would sell for big bucks. Money well spent for a unique quality!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 20, 2020, 12:49:16 PM
The vent windows and the other side windows are electrically functioning; the front seat too. For the vent window, I found very small motors; They are larger for the other side windows. In fact the whole packaging was a challenge.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 22, 2020, 06:44:14 AM
To continue with the brakes, I had first to do the links transmitting the movement from the brake shaft and the actuator lever. The link is curved to clear the differential. I don't know how much space is between link and differential on the real cars; on the model, I will have to be careful by not spraying too much paint!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 23, 2020, 08:29:16 AM
The rear brakes are now ready. I can continue with the differential; there are 4 flanches to do: 2 which will be part of the diff body, one for the cover and the last one for the differential carrier or pumpkin.
By the way, did you know that Cadillac cars from 1932 had adjustable shock absorbers? The shop manual is not very detailed nor has a good system's description. If I'm right, there were 5 possibilities which could be set from the driver's seat. All four shock absorbers were connected with rods, adding the complexity to that frame. As you see, it was not an invention from recent years.

Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 26, 2020, 05:58:38 AM
Even if I'm shaping metal since years, sometimes I'm too optimistic. As the weather was mild recently, I went to my store room/garage to shape a piece of wood on which I would "stamp" the rear axle halves like the original part (first picture). I cut a piece of brass 0.5mm thick, annealed it and began to bang and bend it. Well, the metal did not respond like I wanted; the end result was just good for the trash as you will see on the second picture.
I had to think how to continue it; from 2 possible options, I choose the one which I will have to silver solder the flancs in the middle. The last picture is where I'm now. Of course, with a right die set, the pressing would have been possible. However, for that kind of metal forming, the wood is way too soft.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on February 27, 2020, 12:37:26 PM
Hey Roger, out of curiosity what kind of wood did you try and use? At that brass thickness you would be on the edge of what could be used for wood template forming. Wonder if an extremely hard wood such as elm might have worked? That wood is so hard that in the past it was not used for anything but axe handles, wagon wheels, ship keels and similar items. Furniture makers usually avoided it as it was tough to work with and dulled their cutting blades prematurely. Those have been my findings as well. One very tough wood product to work with but it machines well and resists splitting and chipping. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 28, 2020, 02:59:26 AM
Clay, it was a bit of round wood I had in my garage. Maybe from a broomstick? Anyway, it was rather soft, but that's not the problem. Even if I had done that template with brass the result would have been the same. The differential is not parallel which is rendering the matter a bit more difficult. With my new approach I got it right, as you will see in my next post.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 28, 2020, 10:12:48 AM
Both rear axle halves are ready to get silver soldered together. They are far from pretty, some cosmetic improvement is in order!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 02, 2020, 12:40:06 PM
The differential halves are now silver soldered and trimmed. Then, I checked for the offset of the differential and I noticed that I did an almost fatal error: I placed the differential in the middle! I will just have to make the RH side a bit longer and all will be good.
The picture from the diff body is showing an aperture; this will be needed to install a collar to the drive shafts to have a positive location. The holes around the hole are to attach the cover. You will probably see that the holes are not at the same distance from each other; this pattern is identical on the other side to attach the diff nose to the body. There must be a reason for that, I don't know it.
I began to prepare the diff nose by silver soldering the tube (which was done long ago) to the main plate which will be assembled to the body. I still have to add the decorum to this assembly. The holes you can see are indeed recesses in that main plate, probably to save weight.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 04, 2020, 07:11:01 AM
Here is another picture from the diff nose. From the many pictures from an original diff, the onw from under was of course missing. Therefore I had to guess and, even if the shape is similar, it may not be accurate.
I will add 2 or 3 small items with silver solder, then I will switch to soft solder: some threads at the diff output are clogged by soldering material. they can be reworked, but it's a waste.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 06, 2020, 07:26:16 AM
The work is going forwards with the nose. Some details were added by silver soldering them; now, I will attach the remaining details with soft solder because due to the irregular shape of the nose, they cannot stay where I would like. With soft soldering, I have to possibility to hold them with a tool.
Most pictures I did on the original differential were at the left side; this is the same with the pictures I got from Holland. Therefore, I had to guess more than I expected how the RH side is looking like.
For the pictures, I assembled the nose to the diff body to have a more realistic impression.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Tallen on March 06, 2020, 06:14:58 PM
Roger you are a true artist! I absolutely love seeing the progress of your incredable craftsmanship. Thank you for taking the time to share your talents with us!

Allen
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 08, 2020, 08:32:29 AM
Thanks Allen!

The differential nose is ready. I also corrected the length of the housing by adding a spacer on the RH side. Now, the torque tube will be in the middle. As a consequence from my error: the RH shaft for the brake actuation must be extended because the bearings for the shafts are positioned at the same distance from the nose. The pads for those bearings are the next addition to the housing, as well the brackets for the shock absorbers and the brackets for the strut rods which are combined with the pads for the leaf springs.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on March 08, 2020, 06:19:46 PM
Roger,

Beautiful work, and always a pity to have to cover up such artistry with paint.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 09, 2020, 03:32:46 AM
Thanks Bruce! But you know that paint is also hiding unwanted irregularities!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on March 09, 2020, 06:28:48 AM
Yes.   Bog is such wonderful stuff.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 11, 2020, 09:03:21 AM
The differential body is almost ready. What I still have to do: create a double bearing in the middle of the body to guide the axle shafts as there is no diff pinion for that purpose.
As you can see on both pictures, I have to elongate the RH brake shaft; the one for the LH side is OK. Then, I will have to do both bearings for the brake shaft; they are attached with screws on the pads I added recently.
Other additions which were made: the brackets for the shock absorbers, the brackets for the strut rods and the resting pads for the leaf springs.

Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 15, 2020, 07:03:38 AM
It took an awful long time to fabricate those 2 tiny bearing guiding the brake shafts. They are small and, even if I had not fat fingers, I had some difficulties to grab them for "machining". Then, to adjust them to have a free rotation of the shafts was a matter of trial and error. And, finally, by soldering the bearing (a simple tube with the proper dimensions) to the support, I had the bad surprise that everything was soldered: bearing, support and shaft!
On the second bearing, I thought that I had the perfect solution: I used a cleaned drill bit to simulate the shaft; the solder found its way to it and the drill bit was soldered to the bearing! I had to just heat it to let turn the drill bit with a plier and, during cooling, the solder joint was broken. Most probably the ideal position of the bearing was disturbed during the drill bit rescue because I had a binding situation which was solved by enlarging the inside diameter of the bearing.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 17, 2020, 09:55:06 AM
The rear axle is slowly coming to the end. There are still minor elements to add: the plug to drain the oil and the one to fill it up, plus 4 grease nipples at the brake shaft bearings.
The first picture is showing my method to position the axle shafts (crude but effective) and the recently done end cover.

Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 21, 2020, 01:45:56 PM
The drain and filling plugs were added (without picture). The big question was: and now, with what can I continue? During the winter, I prepared vaguely the pattern for the frame. It was the right time to finish it. Now, I can prepare two long brass bands; the flanges from the vertical "U" will be hammered on this thick pattern, allowing to make a RH and a LH frame rail.
I noticed recently that my bottle of gas for silver soldering is getting empty. The problem is that now stores (except for food) are closed as long that Cornora virus is active.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on March 21, 2020, 06:04:45 PM
Hello Roger. Could you use an electronic soldering pen, (no gas), like the type used for doing fine circuit board soldering? While you may not get the capillary action you need for some joints, one of these may work for pin point precision work. This is the industrial unit I use & I found it works well in those instances. You can dial in your temperature up to around 900 degrees F. Digital display and I think you can switch to C display. I think this unit has been replaced by another newer model, but something like this might do some of your work in a pinch, (but not take the place where a larger area of solder is required and more capillary action needed). Lots of control and it heats up real fast. Super accurate dial heat control as well. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 22, 2020, 03:53:25 AM
Thanks Clay for the comments. Don't forget that in Europe we don't usually have the same electrical tools as in the US/Canada; Dremel is one of the exceptions.
For soft soldering, I'm equipped. For difficult assemblies which are requiring a lot of small items soldered together, I usually silver solder at the beginning and then, when it gets critical, I'm finishing with soft soldering.
Anyway, as most stores are closed due to the Corona virus, I could not buy one of the stations you are showing. The day they will be open again, I will have access to the gas too.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 24, 2020, 12:55:29 PM
As the template for the frame rail was ready, it was time to bend some brass on it!
In fact, there were two options for the frame rails: trim a bit of brass the same shape as the drawing and silver or soft solder the upper and lower flanges or bend the flanges on that template. Each variant has its advantages and disadvantages. Silver soldering the flanges is creating a lot of distorsion; soft soldering the flanges is not very robust, but the rework is minimal.
The bending solution is requiring more finishing work because, as the flanges are hammered, they elongate and the rails were looking like a banana. Plus the marks done on the flanges by the hammer. I choose a brass 0.5mm thick (0.02"), therefore the material is thick enough to allow some filing to get at the end 0.4mm.
There are just 2 places I had to repair with silver soldering: at the rear, the lower flange has rather small radiuses and one had too much material (I had too cut a slice) and at the other curve, the brass sheared. I have to say that I expected more problems.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 26, 2020, 12:15:01 PM
As my pattern was not thick enough, I had to skip the specific flange's shape at the rear. I silver soldered bands of brass to have the correct shape.
The main rails are not straight (seen from above) but has two bends, allowing the rear to be wider than the front. With that done, the main rails are done.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 30, 2020, 03:40:44 AM
To continue with the frame, I choose the front supports of the front springs. To simplify, the RH and LH are not identical. I began with the easy one, the RH part. Easy? At first glance yes, but as all supports and brackets from that time, this was a casting. That tiny part is in fact constituted with 4 elements silver soldered. Some machining was required; the difficulty was to clamp the part which is far from regular or symmetrical. With some imagination I succeeded, without incident.
This support, which is also the base for the front bumper, is attached to the frame with 4 rivets; right now, it's soft soldered to the main rail. 2 rivets will be easy to do; they will go into the holes you can see. 2 rivets, one at the upper and the other at the lower flange will most probably be just for the show as riveting at the flanges at this scale is very difficult. This is the reason why all supports and brackets will be soft soldered to the rails.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on March 30, 2020, 11:49:43 AM
Quote....as riveting at the flanges at this scale is very difficult.

Roger, calling this difficult makes me think if you really, really wanted to, you could do it. :)
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 30, 2020, 12:45:24 PM
Well, Ralph, riveting is in fact not so difficult. If you saw the Mark II pictures, I riveted the blades for the fan, without soldering them. All what's needed is an "anvil" and a tool having the shape of the rivets' head in negative (hollow).
To install rivets at the flanges would require a very thin but strong anvil which can resist to the hammering. This is what I will maybe do or have just dummy rivets.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 01, 2020, 06:04:16 AM
After the RH front spring attachment point was done, I began the LH one which is different. While I was drawing the "workshop sketch", I noticed that the casting is longer than the other side; therefore, I had to shorten the frame rail. I had previously done the holes for 2 rivets, they are now closed with soft solder as the correct ones are located about 2mm towards the rear.
The big question is: why this attachment point is so different that the other one? I'm not a connaisseur from the cars build in the thirties; I don't know if every car had that difference or only the expensive brands. By the way, the LaSalle models had that too.
Those who have such a car, please let the other people try to find the right answer! The solution will come in a couple of days.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 03, 2020, 04:00:44 AM
Well, the number of suggestions did not disrupt the forum! Here is the answer:
In the Cadillac world, this arrangement was called "steering modulator", with following explanation: The steering modulator is designed to prevent shimmy and steering wheel whip. To accomplish this, the front shackle of the left front spring floats between two pairs of stiff coil springs. With this arrangement, the modulator springs absorb the road shocks which may otherwise be transmitted to the steering wheel.

If the system was functioning as intended is a question I cannot answer. This was eliminated when the independent front suspension was introduced. I'm adding a picture of the system used by Cadillac.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on April 03, 2020, 07:49:57 AM
Ah ha... So, if a car was converted to RHD, then that mounting would need to be swapped side to side?

I like it when one learns something new.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 03, 2020, 08:04:45 AM
Most probably because the frame rails had different numbers between RH & LH drive side. I was not aware of that system until recently!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: goob on April 03, 2020, 11:19:21 AM
Very interesting, Roger. It made me think! I looked under our 1931 Lincoln model K, it has a very similar setup, as does our 1935 Packard 8 Phaeton. The Packard has that bracket at the rear of the front spring! The oldest Cadillac we have is 1941 so it is too 'new' to have that setup! And here I thought I knew everything!! Thanks Roger, and stay well...

Gary
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 03, 2020, 11:39:15 AM
Gary, glad that you could learn something with a topic about scale model!
From another forum, I learned that some Dodge hat a similar system. I believe that shimmy was very common with the solid front axle; when manufacturers went to independent front suspension, this set-up was history. I'm wondering if the trucks in the US which were more or less derived from passenger vehicles had that system?
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 04, 2020, 08:40:48 AM
When something must go wrong, it does it! That almost insignificant mobile element from the "modulator" was intended to be done is so few parts as possible and, of course so little silver soldering as possible, especially due to the fact that my gas bottle is almost empty. The new one should arrive next week, but our post system is surcharged by on-line orders.
What went wrong? A lot of bad reasoning, too much milling at the wrong place. All that required adding small elements on a part which had "consumed" already some work' hours. Finally that stupid part could be assembled temporarily on the frame with 4 springs (rather weak for the moment). The empty holes on the sides are for screws which should locate the solid axles. They will be added during the final assembly.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: DeVille68 on April 04, 2020, 01:03:58 PM
wow, everything soo tiny and or but with so many details!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on April 04, 2020, 02:08:08 PM
Roger,

I know you scratch build everything. I'm curious about the assorted size scale threaded nuts and bolts. Are there sets of cutting dies and taps for assorted sizes in this scale or did fabricate special tooling?
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 05, 2020, 03:12:48 AM
Yes Nicholas, those details is what makes the interest and are taking the most time!

Ralph: I'm buying bolts and nuts. To manufacture them in great quantity, some machines I don't have are needed. I have taps 0.5, 0.6, 0.7, 0.8 and 1mm. Unfortunately, I did not found very small dies; the smaller one I have is 1mm. I would be sometimes interesting to make threads on a 0.5 or 0.8mm rod. To achieve that, I have to cut the thread part of a bolt and silver solder to the rod.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 07, 2020, 04:36:05 AM
As I just have only a little gas left for silver soldering, I began something needed no heat: the links for the shackles. On two previous models I did, it was just a flat part with 2 holes. On the Mark II, it was more complex. On the Cadillac model, there are 12 links: 4 at the rear of the front spings and 8 for the rear springs. At the rear, the ones at the front of the springs are shorter than at the rear, just to simplify! Those links are casted parts with the usual 2 holes for the spring's shafts and 2 more for bolts clamping the shafts. Plus other details we will see when I'm doing them.
I used one short and one long link as template to drill the other parts; next came the task to drill the holes for the clamping bolts. The bolts are just interfering the hole for the shafts; the latter have a recess to allow the bolt to be inserted. How to drill the holes with some precision relative to the holes for the shafts? The best way was to make a fixture to position the link during drilling. I took a scrap part and added a stop so I could do the 24 holes without too many difficulties.
I'm adding a picture from the original part for better understanding.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 11, 2020, 07:33:52 AM
The next step was to mill the recess to get a "slim link". Again, the "special tool" from the previous picture was modified to have a larger flat section to support the part in work. This tool allowed me the have rather identical large ends on both links types.
With the mill I have, the recess was like a cliff, not inclined and without a curve at the top. This was done manually with a file. In the middle of this operation, I saw that one part is missing! I'm sure I had 12 pieces, the picture done a few days ago is attesting it! Finally, I had to do another piece; I spent less time to do it as I had for the unsuccessful search!

The last operation was to mill the slit allowing the link to clamp the suspension shafts. It took a long time till I found the way to machine the slit; in fact, I used a tool which is done for large parts, but the set-up was good. Of course, my milling tool had a too small diameter to have the slit done in one operation; I had to turn the part 180° to machine the other side.

The promised gas at April 8 is still not here. I will have to search to do parts without silver soldering...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on April 11, 2020, 04:04:42 PM
Fantastic work Roger! Never get tired of seeing the progress of this project. Hope you and your family are safe and well. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 12, 2020, 02:24:59 AM
Thanks Clay! For the moment, we are safe and we are working to stay that way, even if it's sometimes difficult. I hope you and yours are also OK as well as the CLC members.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 18, 2020, 07:56:34 AM
The long expected gas came early this week, allowing to quit the planning and cut and silver some brass for the front support of the rear springs which is also a support for the body. This simple casting is not so easy to do with flat brass and required lot of silver soldering. It would be presumptuous to say that this is a genuine reproduction of the original part as some difference are evident for me, compared to the many pictures I have.
Both elements are soft soldered to the frame; the rivets will have to wait (anyway I don't have any at the moment) because the 3. crossmember is attached to the frame with the same rivets.
Along with the model's pictures, I'm adding a picture from the real part.
Now, I will do a body support, much easier!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 23, 2020, 06:38:03 AM
Recently, I did the last bracket supporting the body at the rear and soldered both sides to the rails. The rivets will be added later; they are ordered now with other screws nut, and so on.
Then, I did the  support for the running board. If the vertical support was easy to shape, the horizontal part of it required a pattern to shape it. With a scrap material, the shape was done by filing the excess brass away. It took much more time to do the pattern than to shape both parts on it!
The vertical and horizontal elements were assembled with soft soldering; smaller rivets have to be added. If you are looking well at the picture, you will notice that the lower part from the vertical element does not match exactly the shape of the horizontal one. Error from me or bad design? No! The similar parts on a V-8 frame are perfectly aligned but, as the frame from the V-16 is one inch deeper, the factory used the same vertical parts and had to do a different horizontal part to have the same distance between the floor and running board, creating that misalignment.

When I was in Germany to measure the frame, I knew I would miss important dimensions. The position to the running board support is one of them! The second cross-member is located near to the bracket, but I don't have his position either. I will have to wait until transmission and engine are done to locate the cross-member and brackets. By adding the length of the engine pan and transmission, I should get the real position from that cross-member, but something is not right: all engines are supported at the rear by two side supports; they are located by a hole at the frame; fortunately, I measure it. V-16 and V-8 have not the same support for whatever reason (probably the shape). However, all transmissions are the same. If I'm measuring the distance from that hole to the cross-member on the illustration from the V-8 frame in the shop manual , I have a considerable difference compared to my calculated position. I don't know why, I will maybe find it; the shape from the side supports and their location at the end of the engine could be the solution.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 24, 2020, 03:10:22 AM
Thanks to Johan from the Netherland I have the correct position for the running boards. Thanks Johan!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 25, 2020, 12:32:29 PM
Some time ago, I wrote about rivets and my thinking that most cannot be real rivets, but only for show, mostly when the other side of the rivet was obstructed, like the upper and flanges from the frame.
The problem was the same for the running board's brackets. The rivets for those parts are smaller (at least I have this impression) than the ones used on the frame. I tried with the proper quickly done tools to rivet by using a rod diameter 0.8mm (0.03") from a very soft brass. The main issue is to have the proper length which I had after one try. Therefore, the first 8 rivets from that model are done with a decent head in front like in the rear of the part. The head I got is a tad larger than the initial diameter which is what I expected.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 28, 2020, 11:17:33 AM
With the help from Johan located in the Netherlands, I could position the various body and running board supports. Indeed, those supports for the 143" V-16 wheelbase are located at the same place as for the 134" V-8 wheelbase.
When the ordered cooper rivets will come, there will be some hammering to do!
Now, I will do the rear support for the rear springs. A very complex casting.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 03, 2020, 04:57:37 AM
To help to understand the task I will do, I'm showing two pictures from that rear support, scale 1:1. You can see that taking dimensions is rather difficult as almost nothing is straight. From the shop manual, I have 2 dimensions: the axle distance to the axle from the front support for the springs and the distance from the top of the frame to the axle. I Germany, I took some dimensions which will help.  To have a better idea, I did a drawing scale 1:1 from that part, comparing the sketch to the many pictures I have. When I was more or less satisfied, I began to cut some brass. I did a major concept error: I did the holes for the axles and attempted to glue on the frame the flat piece I had. This method was indeed unpractical; I did the beginn of the part by screwing on the frame and then I could locate the hole. This is the next picture.
The next step was to add the rounded element on which the bearing will be silver soldered; this is the last picture.
In the meantime, I got the cooper rivets. They are good looking (like rivets!) and the material is very soft. The inconvenient: they are too long. I could shorten them with a file, but for more than 150 pieces, I will be mad long before all are ready. I will to a tool to insert the rivets from the back and put the tool into the lathe. This method should help to have a consistent length for all rivets. I just have to build that tool; this will be done after the supports for the rear springs are finished.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on May 03, 2020, 07:35:50 AM
One way to make a jig to make the rivets the right length would be to find a piece of stock, the same thickness as the rivet length.   Drill as many holes in a line to hold the rivets upright, and after clamping the stock down, with the long ends pointing up, simply run a cut-off wheel/grinder along the face of the stock, and voila, rivets the right length.

Need longer rivets, thicker stock.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 03, 2020, 08:48:52 AM
Brilliant idea Bruce! I have first to calculate the shaft length, no matter which system I will use to shorter them.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 05, 2020, 05:18:51 AM
The rear spring supports were continued by adding the pre-drilled flange on which the rear bumper will be attached and the flange on the side for the last cross member. I'm now fitting the bearing for the shackles.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: 35-709 on May 05, 2020, 10:24:41 AM
For cutting rivets, you might find this tool from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty to be handy.  Shipping and import duties might make it too expensive, I don't know.  There is one poor review, but I have owned one for over 40 years and it has always worked well for me, a little practice in its use might be in order.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/12-00200.php?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlevXoPWc6QIVBgiICR2P1gGPEAQYASABEgJbSfD_BwE
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 05, 2020, 10:33:05 AM
Thanks for the link, but my rivets are much smaller than the minimum diameter of 3/32": the shafts re 1 mm (0.04")!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: 35-709 on May 05, 2020, 10:35:37 AM
 ;D  I shoulda known!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 06, 2020, 12:14:09 PM
The supports for the rear springs and bumper are now done. These small parts are indeed an assembly by silver soldering of 8 distinct parts. The last to be added were the 3 ribs near the bearing. They were soldered once at the time and each time most of the soldering became liquid. Thank to the properties of the silver solder, nothing was shifted. Of course, soldering the various parts cannot be done with a rod but with the paste.
Now, I can play with the rivets!

Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 11, 2020, 07:49:13 AM
The last few days, I "installed" about 40 rivets. Finally, I used the method from Bruce to shorten the rivets, doing 9 each time. 2 rivets were lost when they escape from the tweezers, not to be found! I noticed that a too long rivet is more detrimental than a shorter one. Riveting at the flange is also possible with the appropriate "emboss". The rivets have an head a bit larger than what they should; the rivet is therefore inserted from the inside of the channel; what will be mostly visible has now a correct diameter.

I will now begin the fifth and last cross member It's shape is not too difficult but it will not be done in one piece as I cannot stamp it: it would require a very large tool, it makes no sense for just one part.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 14, 2020, 12:19:52 PM
The last cross-member is similar to the rear support for the suspension: difficult to measure, and far from easy to fabricate. When I had draw the profile with the main dimensions, I had a long time to decide which way to begin.
A picture from the original element is attached to the report; it's looking so easy to do! There was already some rationalization at that time: the last cross-member had a provision to attach a spare wheel at the back, or a luggage carrier, depending of the body. It has also a single bracket in the middle to attach the fuel tank: the cross-member #4 has the two other brackets for the tank.

I'm also adding a picture from my part, it's temporarily attached by screws to the frame. This part is indeed an assembly from two elements, silver soldered. It's easy to understand that the cross-member is not yet ready.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 18, 2020, 12:23:26 PM
The fifth cross member is almost ready; it's not perfect in every aspect, but it reflects the design of the original part. Why almost ready? I have to add and riveting the central support for the gas tank. Next to that, there is one bracket at each chassis end which will get riveted to that fifth cross member. I don't have the exact dimensions for the tank bracket; it will be more or less a guess, allowing shaping the tank "between" the front and rear supports.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 19, 2020, 12:44:18 PM
The rear tank support is now completed, riveted to the cross member. Now, I will do the small brackets connecting the lower frame rail to the cross member. A picture from Johan is showing it.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 21, 2020, 04:45:59 AM
The small side brackets are now done. I had to do them with 2 parts assembled by silver soldering. For the moment, all is attached to the side rails with screws. When I will assemble definitively the cross members to the rails, the 5th cross member will be attached first, riveted, and then the small brackets will be added and riveted. A different way of assembly would prevent to insert rivets at 4 places.
I'm going now to the 4th cross member, a simple stamped part just there to support the exhaust tubes and gas tank as I doubt it can add much stability to the frame.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: dadscad on May 23, 2020, 09:27:57 PM
Roger, absolutely amazing craftsmanship.  Just jaw dropping, seeing the functional details of all your scale model cars. The detailed explanation of the steps to replicate the individual parts is truly fascinating to follow. Thank you for your generosity to share your craft with us.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 24, 2020, 02:49:29 AM
Thanks David! It seems that my goal to entertain people is attained!  Just adding pictures without explanation would reduce the interest to follow the construction.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 24, 2020, 08:30:10 AM
The 4th cross member is ready. I could do it in one piece, taking care to not forget the cutout for the rear axle, getting that way enough space between the differential and the cross member.
Some remarks about that element: the large elements riveted at both ends of the cross member are the supports for the exhaust tubes. Yes, they are rigidly attached to the frame, which was probably usual at that time. The smaller brackets are the ones to attach the fuel tank. I noticed from the pictures that the brackets are indeed done with two pieces of steel. They were probably spot welded together to facilitate the installation. Was it a measure to avoid a sudden dangerous situation in case a bracket made with just one thicker piece of steel would break?

What is the continuation? Well, logically I would do the third cross member, but I could do the first one which is rather complicated. Which one would you see now? I'm adding pictures from the first and from the third cross member.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on May 24, 2020, 08:44:23 AM
The construction method of making the exhaust brackets with two pieces of steel laminated together would be done for both strength, plus, if the steel used was spring steel, then it would be a perfect flexible mounting.   Rubber could create a weak spot?

I have a couple of horns that are mounted using a pair of strips of thin steel, which is spring steel, and they perfectly isolate the horns and mount them so they don't break.

Love the way that manufacturers press multiple shapes into metal to increase the strength.   Beauty that is hardly ever seen, apart from the pedestrians when they are being run over. ;)

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 24, 2020, 08:55:40 AM
Thanks Bruce for the explanation which seems logical. As I just have pictures, I cannot check if the supports are made with spring steel. I did mines with 2 pieces of 0.3mm soft brass soft soldered together.
Do have the pedestrian really the time to see the various details from the frame/underbody when they are run over?
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 28, 2020, 06:24:03 AM
As I wanted to let some time for the people decide if I should do now the first or the third cross member, I was not inactive: I did the small reinforcements for the rubber bumper over the rear axle and the one for the shock absorbers which are the lever type of course.
From the 4 forums I'm publishing this build, only 3 people told me what they would like to see, one for the front crossmember and two for the third one. therefore, the third one is now in the work.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on May 28, 2020, 07:36:21 AM
G'day Roger,

Far be it from any of us telling you what to do next.

I couldn't imagine Pablo Picasso or Leonardo DaVinci requesting assistance in getting the next task done, so, as you are the Model-Master, I would humbly decline from offering suggestions to another Master.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 28, 2020, 11:27:17 AM
Bruce! I'm not in the same level like those two you cited! I did the play sometimes with the Mark II construction, asking people if they would prefer to see the trunk lid or the front fender, for example. Usually, there were 5 to 8 answers and the people were happy to ave some input! Anyway, all the cross members will be done and which one is first or last has no importance. By the way, I only ask when the choice is not depending from something else. For example, you just could not ask for the rear spring supports for the front suspension as these are installed on the side of the first cross member.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on May 28, 2020, 11:42:33 AM
Roger,

I agree with Bruce. You're the master, so you should chose which part of the canvas you want to paint next. I just marlvel at watching you work.

Just "keep on keepin' on"......
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 31, 2020, 12:55:17 PM
OK, I understand your concern. I will never ask again!
That third cross member seems easy to do, but it has also his difficulties. Fon once, I did a scale drawing, scale 1:6 to understand the upper stamping. When the drawing was more or less similar to the various pictures, I continue that project with the die set for the upper end stampings. A good picture from an original frame will avoid tedious explanation. Than the picture of my drawing and the die set at the left (I did only the half to simplify), the part as stamped, but not yet ready and a stamped sample.
I'm still unsure how to do the lower part...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on June 02, 2020, 08:14:51 AM
To continue with the lower part from the third cross member, I assembled temporarily the trimmed upper part on the frame. I added a flange at the cross member as it's riveted at the upper, lower and at the sides of the frame rails, 10 rivets each side!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on June 05, 2020, 12:58:53 PM
If the upper half was requiring some tooling, it was more economical with silver soldering: only the end flanges to be riveted at the side of the rail were added. It was a different matter with the lower part: no tooling, but the parts is an assembly of 9 pieces. The pictures are attached showing the various steps.
The lower "legs" were adjusted by removing excess material until the frame rails were square. This cross member is very rigid, adding a lot of strength to the frame.
Logically I would now do the second cross member, but I will do indeed the first one. The reason is that when the first cross member is ready, it will be easier to locate the second one as I have the length of the engine and transmission. The second cross bar is indeed the support for the transmission, it must be positioned correctly!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on June 10, 2020, 09:11:05 AM
As I anticipated, the first cross member is far from easy. I gather all pictures I had which were in relation with that element, just to notice that I had nothing clear showing the underside of the cross member. That part is not a single stamped element; a second thick piece of stamped steel is riveted to the top one. Fortunately, a member from the AACA forum provided good photos from his V-12. Thanks Alex!
Many element from the frame were available separately as listed in the parts list. Can you imagine the work required to remove a damage cross member by grinding each rivet, removing the part, adjusting the new one and installing it with new rivets?
Anyway, with all the pictures, I could begin. But with what? the front? the rear? I opted with the rear because it represents a rather large single element. With that, I could continue towards the front. What you see, temporarily inserted in the frame, is constituted with 6 pieces silver soldered. I expected to reduce the number of elements by doing the front flange in one piece. After grinding, cutting, hammering,  I realized that it's just a no go. Therefore, I cut the front flange (in the front at the picture) and will adapt it and silver solder to the existing sub-assembly.
Both pieces of brass soft soldered on the frame are just there to stabilize the frame the time I'm doing the first cross member.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on June 15, 2020, 07:48:34 AM
The upper part from the front cross member is ready. With the four integrated nuts at the front (they could be for the front fender attachment supports), 13 parts are silver soldered together. Some stampings were done: 2 round ones in the front for the radiator, two indentations at the almost vertical "tower" and 2 further rear for the engine supports. The tools to perform the indentations used much more time than the pressing!
Most holes as provided by the factory were done too; of course, the ones for the rivets (more than 20) will be drilled together with the side rails before the definitive assembly.

The next task is to do the reinforcement element located under the radiator. This part will be assembled with 4 additional rivets at the upper part, which seems not a lot. I don't know if some welding were performed to attach more securely both parts; mines will be soft soldered, plus the rivets.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on June 16, 2020, 03:38:19 AM
G'day Roger,

All I can say is Gorgeous.

But, one question.   How do you install it in the Chassis when all the other crossmembers are in place?   Chassis Stretching?

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: veesixteen on June 16, 2020, 08:02:20 AM
Roger: have you got any drawings/photos of the projected motor-chassis combination?
Just curious!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on June 17, 2020, 04:18:38 AM
Well, Bruce, that's easy to understand: the existing cross members are just held with some screws at the side rails. The rear of the frame is wider than the front, therefore it's easy to insert the front cross member at the rear and slide it towards the front. It could not be possible (but I' not sure) if I could do that if the second cross member would be in place. When the time will come to attach permanently the cross members to the side raails, I will probably finish one side and install the other side rail over the cross members.

To Yann: for the moment, I intend to do only the frame and engine. If I sill can go furter, I will decide at that time. What I think would be nice is a roadster, if that was possible on the shorter chassis (143 inchs).
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on June 17, 2020, 07:36:56 AM
Ah ha..... I can see it now.   I thought you had completed the crossmember attachments as you went.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 15, 2020, 11:29:22 AM
After some vacation and at the return a lot of paperwork to settle, I could continue with the reinforcement for the first crossmember. I choose a slightly thinner brass for it; as the torsion at the frame never will be a concern!

The first pictures are showing the reinforcement alone; the last two are showing that reinforcement installed on the upper part. For the moment, 4 screws are used to assemble both parts; the screws will be replaced with rivets.

The next task is to drill the myriad holes for the rivets which are securing the first cross member to the frame.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 19, 2020, 05:23:25 AM
Before I'm doing the various holes for the front support to the frame, I began the rear supports for the front springs. They will be riveted over the fist cross member; it was a part which could be replaced at that time, therefore it could not be installed between the frame and the cross member.
The first picture is from a real car; the second picture is showing the base plate for the support; the upper leg had to be bent in a precise location as it is inserted into the frame like a wedge.
This support is also the attachment point for the front brake's cable.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 20, 2020, 08:57:16 AM
There were some additions made to the LH spring support: the bearing and a fin connecting the upper leg to the bearing. Some minor additions are still needed to complete the first support.
When I drilled the 4 holes at each support, I noticed later to my dismay that 3 were at the wrong place, due to a wrong reasoning! I closed the holes and drill new ones at the right place.
To continue with the positioning of the support to the frame, I had to disassemble it (once more) because I cannot drill the necessary hole from inside, the other frame rail in on the way. Then, with a lot of R & R, the holes at the frame for the support could be done.
When that LH support will be finished, I will do the same on the other side.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 23, 2020, 03:38:07 AM
Both rear supports for the front springs are ready. To facilitate the future assembly of the frame, the supports are soft soldered at the first cross member. All the holes you can see on the side of the cross member are for the rivets. There will be 30 rivets for that assembly, but all will not be effectively riveted because the access at the rear of the rivets is just impossible.
I will do now the recess on the frame rails for the front brake cable; I added a picture of the real recess. I could not do it before because the relationship between the recess and the rear supports must be exact.
On the real frame, that recess is stamped. I cannot do it that way, it will be a separate element soft soldered.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 24, 2020, 10:11:26 AM
First, I did the aperture in both frame rails and then a modified half cylindrical insert was soft soldered. Not a big deal, but it was needed to have functioning front brakes.
I'm going now further to the front with a small reinforcement which will be installed after the first cross member is riveted to the rails. I'm also attaching a picture from that part.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 26, 2020, 08:40:49 AM
Both small reinforcements are done; thee holes for the rivets will be drilled with the rails when it will be time to assemble the whole frame which will happen soon.
I also did and soft soldered the large nuts for the front shock absorbers. Two are hidden behind the tower; they had to be attached before the assembly. The rear nuts had to be modified a bit: the rear of the tower should be more vertical. That's the kind of errors which are discovered late and cannot be corrected unless the whole sub-assembly is discarded and a new is made.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 29, 2020, 07:40:20 AM
Lately, I'm trying to do on the frame rails all what I can before the definitive assembly. The holes for the engine support, steering gear and idle lever for the shock absorbers are all done; even if I don't have the precise location, those holes should be more or less at their correct place.
There is also another small part added: the bracket for the hood fastener at the front; after the assembly, it would not have been possible riveting that small part to the frame rail.

Another check at the lose parts and the assembly will begin!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 01, 2020, 09:44:05 AM
The cross members # 1, # 3 and # 4 have been soft soldered on the RH side rail. The small reinforcement at the front is also soldered but the holes for the rivets not yet done. I could rivet # 1 and # 4; the rivets for the # 3 will be fake because I should do about one tool for one rivet and the chance that the outcome will be good is far from garanteed. The rivets will simply be pushed into the holes and soft soldered. The other side is hardly visible. I'm adding a picture showing most of the tools I need to rivet the cross members.
I will do now the same treatment with the LH side rail. The last cross member will be installed next.
As I stated earlier, the cross member # 2 will be done and adapted to the powertrain/frame once the engine & transmission are done.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 10, 2020, 06:30:14 AM
With the exception of the #2 cross member, the frame is technically finished. Of course, there will be some holes to be drilled for various accessories. As I wrote some time ago, the location of the #2 crossmember is depending from the end of the transmission as the cross member is supporting it.
As you can see, all rivets are in place, some are just soft soldered to the frame as creating a tool specific for each rivet is a waste of resources. Initially I had 200 rivets. When the second cross member will be finished, I will have just 22 left!
If I'm comparing the frames I did for my other models, the one for the V-16 is twisting easily. Sure, when the missing crossmember will added, that tendency will be reduced. This could also be the reason why the rear of the engine has supports attached at the frame, plus the ones at the end of the transmission. Those multiple engine/transmission cushions were probably also a help to add some torsional rigidity as on the V-16, the second crossmember is located about in the middle of the frame.

What's next? I think it's now a good opportunity to begin the engine, it's will be so easy to do!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Cadman-iac on August 10, 2020, 09:56:23 AM
Roger,
  So what is the total length of your frame as it is now? Do you know how much it weighs?
That is so impressive! Wonderful job. Are you also going to make a body for it? And how long do you think it will take you to make your engine? Good luck with it. Love your work.

Rick
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 10, 2020, 10:24:52 AM
Rick, thanks for the comments!
The frame is 422 mm in length (16.6") and 159 g "heavy" (5.6 ounces). As explained earlier, the body is not (yet) foreseen. How long to do the engine? Just what's needed!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Cadman-iac on August 10, 2020, 11:35:32 AM
 You are most welcome Roger, and thank you for answering my questions,  I appreciate that.
I have seen some really small actually working engines before,  wouldn't it be great if you could make yours a working one? But I'm sure there's a lot more work in that than you probably want to do.
Great job, and good luck with the rest.

Rick
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 10, 2020, 12:38:43 PM
To have a working engine at this scale would require machines much more precise that the lathe I have. It has never been my goal to have a functioning engine. It was difficult enough to have working electric windows on the Toronado and Mark II!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Cadman-iac on August 10, 2020, 01:57:58 PM
Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on August 10, 2020, 12:38:43 PM
To have a working engine at this scale would require machines much more precise that the lathe I have. It has never been my goal to have a functioning engine. It was difficult enough to have working electric windows on the Toronado and Mark II!

Wow!! Working windows,  now that's a feat!
Yeah, a working engine would be a great deal more difficult indeed,  but just think of the "cool" factor!!! LOL!!
Good luck Roger!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 13, 2020, 12:35:04 PM
As I wrote some days ago, I began the engine. But, with what? There are 5 main elements for that engine: the oil pan (no, I will not do it in aluminum like the original), the crankcase (same remark), both engine blocks, both heads and the valve covers. For all those parts, I have only a few dimensions, not enough to do something right now. The drawings in the shop manuals are somewhat distorted, I cannot rely entirely on that. Obviously, I cannot wait until factory blueprints are landing on my desk, but it would be nice to have them. As Cadillac or GM is not very cooperative with that ("No, we have nothing" what a lie!), I have to do something engine related.
Searching various offers for parts on eBay, I found a front engine cover for sale. No, I don't intend to buy it, but there were 2 very interesting pictures with the camera almost perpendicular to the cover. There are still distortions; its my task to rearrange the dimensions.
As you can guess, I began that front cover. It will be very helpful when I will begin the crankcase at the case's shape for the generator gearing can be copied from the cover.
This cover has another function: the front engine supports are riveted to it, it's another benefit debuting with that part: it will give me the position of the engine on the frame.

Two pictures are attached: the cover I found, and the cover the way it is today. Some minor elements must be done; the engine supports must be added too.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 14, 2020, 12:21:42 PM
The last details were added to the front cover. I now have to build the engine supports which are castings.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: DeVille68 on August 14, 2020, 04:12:33 PM
Hey Roger,
I wonder how you added those details. There is no way tell. From behind with a negative form or from the front? (soldering?)

Best regards,
Nicolas
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 15, 2020, 03:06:44 AM
The luxury variant would be to stamp the part in just one or two strokes! With so many details, I cannot. So, each detail is an added element either silver soldered like on the first picture and the remaining details soft soldered. Scale modeling is anyway an illusion, therefore its not necessary to do the parts like the real ones were done.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 18, 2020, 07:44:06 AM
The supports, rivetted on the front cover, are only partly symmetrical. The first parts I did were both recipients for the rubber cushions. On the model, there will be no rubber as the engine will turn vibration free!
The next task was to silver solder the attaching plate to the recipients. To facilitate the job, I used the third hand as the plates could not stay vertical without aid. The first pictures are showing the process. The "fingers" from the third hand were hot at the end, but not enough to damage them.
Then I shaped the attaching plates to their respective location. I only guessed the distance between the base and the lower end of the cover; if the engine will be too low, some washers will help. By looking at my pictures, it seems that I'm not too far away from the correct dimension.
Then, I added the reinforcement ribs. The last ones will be soft soldered; indeed, they are here just for the show.
The last two pictures are showing the front cover with supports (attached with screws for the moment) and how that assembly is looking on or into the frame. Just imagine the engine behind it!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on August 18, 2020, 09:48:14 PM
Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on August 18, 2020, 07:44:06 AM
........ The first parts I did were both recipients for the rubber cushions. On the model, there will be no rubber as the engine will turn vibration free! 
Roger,

I like your optimism and your total confidence in your machining and engine-building when time comes to spin the engine over. ;)

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 22, 2020, 10:10:11 AM
After riveting the engine supports to the cover and adding the sealing surface for the oil pan (attached with silver solder and false rivets), the front engine cover is finished. It was time to do the pulley for the fan and harmonic balancer. This simple part became a complex affair every Englishman could be proud of it. Why the complication? Well, I like when pulleys can be rotated. However, I dislike when they are turning like an egg. Everyone accustomed to work on a lathe knows that when a part get machined on one side and then the other side, chance that both machined elements are perfectly concentric is an illusion as the chuck is not a precision tool, especially if it was used and abused which is the case on my lathe.
This fact let to design the various part in such a way that out of round is practically eliminated, but it requires more sub-assemblies.
What will be the velocity of that shaft? Well, it will turn as quickly as one will be able to let it turn with the engine crank handle! If you are good looking at the harmonic balancer, you will notice the provision for the crank handle.
In the real life, I'm wondering how easy or hard it was to turn over the V-16 with a crank handle…
The first picture is showing the cover and in front of it the pulley/harmonic balancer; the second one is less glamorous: it's the back of the cover with the bearing to guide the small shaft. The third one is the assembly from both elements.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 26, 2020, 12:45:06 PM
Usually, when I'm building a model, I have no logic with what to do first and with what I should continue. It's most of the time dependent if I'm still needing more info or whatever. Sometimes, I'm continuing with some logic: after the pulley on the crank shaft, why not do the pulley for the fan?
The people who designed the pulley and hub almost 90 years ago had certainly the idea that somebody would replicate that engine; therefore, to add some difficulties, they designed a hub with ribs for the fan! The first picture is showing that.
I had two solutions: close the eyes and do a smooth hub or take the challenge to add the ribs. I choose the difficult one without knowing how to do it. To complicate the matter, that casted hub has on one side the pulley and on the other side the flange on which the fan is attached. Doing that in one piece is not possible. I did the flange and hub as one part and the pulley as another one.
Then I counted the number of ribs: there are more than 8, base on a picture from the original pulley, I decided that there were 12. After doing that part and comparing with the above picture, there are maybe only 10. I will survive if I'm wrong.
Anyway, I milled 12 grooves; because of the flange, I could not do the grooves till the end. Therefore, the "fins" were only partly inserted in the grooves and silver soldered 2 pieces at the same time. After lowering the ribs, I silver soldered the pulley.
Now, I can do the adjustable shaft.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: V.Sorok on August 26, 2020, 04:02:03 PM
And yet only eight))

Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 27, 2020, 12:58:58 PM
Quote from: V.Sorok on August 26, 2020, 04:02:03 PM
And yet only eight))
Thanks for the nice drawings (something I cannot do) but I'm still not sure about the quantity. I decided 12 because of the attached picture. With 8, they should coincide with the holes for the fan, but they don't.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: V.Sorok on August 27, 2020, 05:12:02 PM
Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on August 27, 2020, 12:58:58 PM
Thanks for the nice drawings (something I cannot do) but I'm still not sure about the quantity. I decided 12 because of the attached picture. With 8, they should coincide with the holes for the fan, but they don't.

Roger, I respect and appreciate your masterful work, but I suppose you're wrong this time. I showed the same detail at a different angle.
With all my respect,
Vlad
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on August 27, 2020, 08:31:01 PM
Gentlemen,

For what it's worth I scaled the rib spacing in the pic and estimate it is 12.7% of the circumference, which is mighty close to 1/8th
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 28, 2020, 02:17:07 AM
Well, I can be wrong! The fact is that when the part was finished, the space between the ribs had not the same look as on the pictures. And then? The part will stay that way!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 30, 2020, 05:29:10 AM
Before I did the controversial hub, I built the support for it. This support will be screwed on the crankcase and is designed to let rise or lower the pulley and fan assembly to have the correct tension of the belt.
At that time, the belt did not drive the generator nor the water pump; those two assemblies were driven by the camshaft's chain.
Logically the next step would be either the crankcase or the fan. I choose the fan and began with the star support for the blades. Here too, the blades are spaced symmetrically which is easier for me. This small part (a tad over 1") required a lot of filing and careful drilling for the blade's rivets. The surfaces on which the blades will be riveted have a slight curve. This is the kind of parts I like to do!
I'm not sure, but I believe that the blades were made with polished stainless steel on the original cars; mines will be brass. Once riveted, the assembly will be chromed and the blade's support will be painted black.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on September 01, 2020, 06:02:54 AM
The 6 blades were made with a thinner brass; they were pre-drilled, shaped and polished. The assembly to the support was done with 30 rivets, without almost no damage to the polished surface. The rivets are done with a thin copper wire, 0.5 mm in diameter (0.02") and ....riveted with modified tools I used for the frame's rivets.
Now that the very front end of the engine is done, I definitively have to go rearwards. I will begin the crankcase soon; this is originally a cast aluminum part; it will be done with flat brass, suitably shaped and silver soldered.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on September 01, 2020, 09:29:29 AM
Roger,

….Like a work of art...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on September 02, 2020, 12:00:30 PM
Thanks Ralph!

Doing an engine with flat stock is always an adventure. Even if the crankcase sides are rather flat, there are logically still curves. For the moment, the curves are far away, I have to make the foundations. The first parts are less than glamourous as you can see below. Those 3 parts are the base for the crankcase and both sides. But why there are dents on the parts representing the sides?
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: V.Sorok on September 03, 2020, 08:53:47 PM
QuoteBut why there are dents on the parts representing the sides?

They'll probably be bolt mounts.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on September 04, 2020, 02:12:48 AM
Exactly! The original is looking like that:
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on September 17, 2020, 06:48:15 AM
After a short vacation (we had to go back home earlier because of the virus), the "work" on the engine could resume. The side from the crankcase are now silver soldered to the base. It makes an incredible long engine, but rather narrow.
I don't know yet how I will do the rear of the crankcase as I have too few pictures from that place but, no worry, I will find a way.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on September 20, 2020, 01:41:54 PM
To continue the crankcase, I began to delimitate the place for the engine blocks. The RH one has an offset equal to the width of a connecting rod's journal, 2.4mm on the model (0.095"). Then, I did the narrow wall ending the crankcase at the engine blocks. I still have to do the same at the rear.
Then I soldered the rear part of the distribution case but larger than the final shape. Then came the big question: how to proceed further? The most reasonable solution was the shape the flange on which the end cover will be attached. One small flange was soldered at the LH crankcase and holes drilled to attach the end cover.
Once the flange was shaped correctly, I did the band closing the distribution case. That band was soldered to the mounting flange, letting a small raised edge like you can see on the original picture.
The question of the day was: can I solder the outer distribution case to the crankcase and have a correct position for the end cover? With careful adjustment and some trick, my gamble went quite well: the end cover is installed at the right position. My description of the various steps can be confusing; this was indeed a complex undertaken.
There are still missing details on that distribution case; I will probably add them with soft solder.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on September 23, 2020, 04:50:50 AM
On top of the distribution case, there is an integrated casting for the distributor and to attach the cooling fan. I decided to make that piece from a brass block with milling/filing. Once the part was ready, I began to mill/file an aperture at the distribution case which was not an so easy task.
When the fitting of the past pleased me, it was silver soldered to the assembly.
On one picture, there is a hole at the back of the distribution case; this is the pilot hole for the generator. I did also the hollow at the crankcase for the generator clearance.
Just for the fun, I did the last picture with the fan installed; when the engine blocks, cylinder heads and valve covers will be installed, the top of those elements will be a tad under the top of the fan. Imagine that in a modern styling, the hood could not be installed!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Chris Cummings on September 23, 2020, 12:37:10 PM
This eBay listing has some pictures of the V-12 crankcase that might be helpful.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1931-Cadillac-V12-Crank-Case-with-Crank-Cam-and-Main-Bearing-Caps/124274125998?hash=item1cef50acae:g:V4oAAOSwT9NeOcaq

Best regards,

Chris Cummings
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on September 23, 2020, 12:48:26 PM
Thanks Chris! I'm already in contact with that seller, but the results are meager.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on September 23, 2020, 01:21:54 PM
As always, fantastic work Roger. On page 157 of Walter M.P. McCall's 80 Years of Cadillac La Salle, there is a grainy passenger side profile image of a Cadillac V12 engine. I could take a snap shot for you if it would assist. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on September 23, 2020, 03:42:32 PM
Thanks Clay! I have the book, no problem and indeed I have many pictures from the engine V-12 and V-16. Next to the length, there are some subtile  differences too, so I cannot take the V-12 and just add 2 cylinder at each bank.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on September 23, 2020, 09:30:56 PM
Silly me, my dyslexia must have kicked in. V16. A couple of shots of a V16 engine in the Maurice D. henry book. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 02, 2020, 10:13:05 AM
The last days I prepared and added the ridges on the side of the crankcase. Of course, my crankcase is not looking exactly the same as the original one, but the ridges will have the studs to attach the engine blocks.
I added also the flanges for the fuel pump and the breather; there are some small details on the block; they will be added later as I intend to soft solder them.
Thanks to Johan from the Netherland: he sent me a load of pictures from the block without accessories as well as from the transmission and other elements. I'm especially grateful for his pictures from the block; I'm now in a position to continue with the back.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 08, 2020, 06:31:33 AM
Thanks to the new pictures I have, the planning for the rear of the crankcase went without too much difficulties. If I had them at the begin of the crankcase's construction, I could have bent the sides at the rear to form the engine supports. Therefore, I had to cut the excess material at the rear and add "ears". Then I add the wall (which may not be the appropriate word for that) at the end of the engine blocks.
The flywheel housing was done with a flat piece of brass shaped to the proper diameter and silver soldered to the end flange. I was ready to drill the holes to attach the transmission; fortunately, I realized that I could not drill the hole at the transmission's flange with enough precision with the flywheel housing attached to the crankcase.
The flange for the transmission is rather thick; of course, I had not the proper material available, therefore I silver soldered 2 pieces of .8mm together, getting this way the proper thickness. The flange at the transmission is not circular; the indentations will be done later, as well as the shape allowing the starter motor to be attached.
I pre-drilled the holes to both elements; the right diameter's holes can be done later.
The next job was to adapt the flywheel housing to the existing construction, taking care to be square; finally that sub-assembly was silver soldered to the crankcase. Some excess soldering is still not removed; this will be done later.
Many elements must be added: the engine supports, the flange for the vacuum pump and so on. Some will be silver soldered; then, as the heat needed to get the proper temperature for each soldering task is getting indecent, remaining small details will be soft soldered.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 12, 2020, 08:47:01 AM
The flywheel housing is flat at the top to allow the support for some features to be attached. To have a precise dimension and to be parallel with the bottom, I milled that surface.
I added then various flanges: the one for the water pump, on the RH side of the engine and the one for a small cover. The mechanic, during maintenance, could rotate that cover to check the timing point.
Two ridges were also added; they house the guiding bar to assemble the transmission to the engine.
The next elements added to the crankcase will be soft soldered.
The last picture is showing a great help: since one year we have a "new" dog; he comes sometimes to me to help, or at least its his thinking.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Mike Baillargeon #15848 on October 12, 2020, 05:07:34 PM
Looks great Roger!!....just amazing!!

Lets hope your 4 legged helper Fritz doesn't run off with your crankcase and bury it in the back yard....haha

Mike
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 19, 2020, 02:56:31 AM
A few elements were added since the last update: the "ears" for the rear engine supports and the provisions to push the colder water coming from the water pump to the LH cylinder block. There is a tube across the rear crankcase; steel tubes are attached to the flange.

The LH flange was relatively easy to do; by accident, this is the side I have the most pictures. The issue with the other side: the 2 threaded holes are not vertical but at about 55° because the tube connected to the water pump has to go down.

If I was satisfied with the flange from the LH side, the RH one is not the best achievement at the crankcase: the holes are not at the desired angle (I could not do better) and the whole configuration is questionable. Several small errors at the parts already done are probably the cause of this shortcoming.

The next step is to do the mounting pedestal for the vacuum pump and for an unidentified (for the moment) device; this is the last picture.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 24, 2020, 12:30:24 PM
Due to various other duties, the up date is rather late.
I saw rather quickly that to do the elements I wanted to add on the crankcase, I had to "close" it because those elements are like a continuation of the upper deck. It's now done; the 16 holes are just for the fun because in reality, the upper crankcase has a different aspect; a picture is included.
Maybe you'll notice that I have another quarter: while removing the front seat from my '72 de Ville, I found that quarter which is different from the usual ones: it was "stamped" in 2004 for Florida. I don't know if that quarter can be used in the whole USA or just in Florida.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Big Fins on October 25, 2020, 05:54:53 PM
Such amazing craftsmanship.

The coin is legal tender anywhere the USD is accepted or exchanged.

It is commemorative coin. Each state within the U.S., got a coin minted in that states honor.

I have a completed map of the U.S., with the corresponding coins inside of each state.

It gave me a reason to hunt through coins. You never know what can turn up.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 26, 2020, 12:31:22 PM
Thanks John!

The rear of the crankcase is finished. Of course, there are some holes do be drilled, but not before the various accessories are ready because the holes on the flanges from the accessories will be used as a template to drill the base.
At the front, there is a built-in casting for the generator mounting. Here too, I'm needing the generator's flange to continue. Therefore, I have to partially begin the generator.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 30, 2020, 12:44:43 PM
Indeed, the flange for the generator should have been done much earlier when the case for the distribution was not yet attached to the block, because I could not drill the holes for the attaching bolts. I had to work backwards, finishing the spacer and generator's mounting flange. With that, I could drill approximate holes into the case for the bolts. I also understood why there is a ridge on that case: one of the attaching bolts is not inside the case; therefore the ridge was necessary. It's also a convenient place to stamp the engine number.
the first picture is showing the soldered flange; the second one the partially built generator in temporarily "installed" on the crankcase.
There are a few details to be added till the crankcase is considered as ready.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 02, 2020, 12:27:31 PM
The last small details on the crankcase have been added: the ridge for the visual oil level; 6 inverted "T"s and 4 tiny ridges like an equal. What is the purpose of those small elements? Maybe needed at the foundry or during the machining of the crankcase. One inverted "T" is thicker than the others; it would be interesting to know the reason.
On several pictures I have from a V-12 engine, those elements are also present.
After a good cleaning of the crankcase, I applied a coat of primer. It will most probably be damaged during the drilling of all the needed holes but the difficult places will not suffer. Of course, before the final painting some improvements will be made; it's now too early to do them now.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Glen on November 03, 2020, 12:27:28 AM
As always, amazing work. 
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 03, 2020, 02:56:22 AM
Thanks Glen!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Big Fins on November 03, 2020, 01:19:12 PM
Quote from: Glen on November 03, 2020, 12:27:28 AM
As always, amazing work.

+1

This gentleman is creating a miniature scale model and I feel lucky if a stick figure comes out straight.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on November 03, 2020, 02:57:08 PM
A Fabergé Cadillac.....
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 06, 2020, 10:30:21 AM
Thanks for the comments!

As I had some elements already done for the generator, I decided to continue with it before I'm going to the oil pan. A generator is a stupid round cylinder with some small details. Regarding the details, I did some: the screws to attach the pole pieces (they are fake, a word used frequently those last 4 years), the oiling funnel, also a fake, at the back cover, the small retaining plate for the bearing at the back cover, held with 3 screws. The difficulty I had was to determine the angular relation with each other. I think I'm not too bad.
Another detail which cannot be overviewed: the air outlet tube, which is screwed on the generator; the inlet conduit will be done when I have the blocks and exhaust manifolds. Here too, I had to guess its position; it's not vertical but inclined towards the exterior. This why I cannot do it now, I have to wait for the other parts.
There are still details to come: the cover over the slots at the back of the generator and both oiling cups (fakes) for the front and rear bearings in addition to the air inlet tube.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: INTMD8 on November 07, 2020, 03:18:33 AM
Truly amazing craftsmanship!   You never fail to impress, thanks for sharing the progress  ;D

Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 07, 2020, 03:25:12 AM
Thanks Jim!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 10, 2020, 07:02:26 AM
As the oil pan is attached to the transmission, I had first to continue with the transmission's flange. I had to "repair" it, by silver soldering a bit brass because I removed too much metal...It's not the first time, and not the last one!
Now that the points for the lower attaching bolts have been set, I began the oil pan. The location for the starter motor is not yet set ; it will be done later when the oil pan has more details done.
For the moment, I have two separate parts: the flange and the pan. Both will probably be soft soldered as such long thin stripes are very unstable when heat is applied.
I'm adding also a picture from a real part.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 13, 2020, 06:05:16 AM
The pan itself was continued by closing the front end. Before it was soldered to the assembly, I milled some slots to help positioning the cooling fins. After that, I silver soldered the fins and trimmed them.
The first pictures is showing the pan and the prepared fins; the second picture is self-explanatory. Further additions will be soft soldered.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Big Fins on November 15, 2020, 04:45:39 AM
Along with your exemplary skills, your patience must span the globe.

Now, let's see you make it operate!  8)
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 15, 2020, 05:13:03 AM
Thanks John! that's for sure, I got a supplement of patience at birth!
No, it will not be functional: this would require a very sophisticate tooling and machine park; all that in a flat?
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: V.Sorok on November 15, 2020, 08:40:01 AM
Roger, I'll point to your wonderful work again!
If you have doubts about the manufacture of the body still, I want to express my opinion: you can not hide such high detail behind any body! Many of details could be not reproduced if you knew that they would hide behind the body.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 15, 2020, 09:18:50 AM
Thanks for your comments! You are right, a body will hide many details. However, during the construction of the Mark II model, I did details which cannot be seen now. That's the difference between a commercial model and what I'm doing.
The body issue is more a time factor than something else. If you go in my profile, you will see that I'm no more so young!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: V.Sorok on November 15, 2020, 11:35:26 AM
Thanks for your reply. I understand you. I have a question about that. Are you doing this scale model for yourself without any order?

Vlad
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 15, 2020, 11:52:21 AM
Yes, Vlad. I will not do something like that for somebody else: if I would get an order, most probably the required model would not interest me; I have no affinity for a Ferrari or something like that. Then the time pressure would be there as a deadline would certainly be set. And, finally, to which price? If I should calculate a price according to the time I'm spending on the model, it's price would quickly get over the roof, unless I'm asking 50 cents per hour!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 16, 2020, 12:34:12 PM
After adding all the tiny details to the oil pan, it's now ready. Well, not exactly: I now have to drill all the needed holes to attach it to the crankcase; there are more than 30. Then, I can do the same at the crankcase. The original studs are 3/8", at 1:12, they will be 0.8mm.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 18, 2020, 08:04:48 AM
At first, I had not idea how to drill the numerous holes at the pan and into the crankcase. The easy method with a rule and tracing point is hardly applicable when so many holes must be drilled with a relative precision.
For the oil pan, I put it on a wood block, attached it with 4 screws, inserted the whole into a jaw. After checking that the pan was parallel to the bank, I could move the carriage the desired distance and do the holes, this is the first picture.
The oil pan was then used as a template to replicate the holes into the block. To avoid unwanted rotational movement, I had to adapt a plate at the front. This way, the assembly was stabilized, second picture.
Now, all the holes are ready to accept the studs; for the moment, I'm using regular screws to attach the pan to the crankcase. On the original engine, studs were used almost everywhere because aluminum is not strong enough for regular screws (ask the Cadillac designers why they did not used that method on the Northstar engine and previous aluminum ones...)
As you can see, the flange for the transmission has been trimmed; it's ready to be soldered to the transmission once it's done.
Now, I will do the engine blocks. Fortunately, they are the same left and right; it will be serie work!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 24, 2020, 11:53:08 AM
Even if the engine blocks are rather easy to do, I spent more time as anticipated. Sometimes things are not going the way I like!
By the way, when I'm hearing the name "engine block", I do see in my head something rather bulky and heavy. This is not the case with the V-12 and V-16 from that time. I'm first adding pictures from the real thing. The block is indeed the element into the pistons are moving. If you look at the second picture, you see that the cylinders are like a tube protruding from the block. Probably that strange solution was adequate for the low output and RPMs from that time; for me it has an evident lack of rigidity. After all, those engine were more intended for comfort than for power .
The last picture is from my blocks, way from finished.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on November 24, 2020, 07:55:14 PM
G'day Roger,

I love learning new things.

The pictures of the engine showing the cylinders poking completely through the cast "Housing" really explains the lovely way these engines were constructed.

Does this mean that there is no actual Engine Block in these motors, but a sump, crank case, and a cylinder holder, with the heads on top?

Bruce. >:D

PS.   As you can read, I have never been inside a V12 or V16 Cadillac engine.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 25, 2020, 03:00:24 AM
It's exactly like that, Bruce. In fact, the main piece here is the crankcase, a fantastic cast aluminum piece.
Before I began this scale model, I had no idea how it was constructed! I also have to add that the numerous pictures I got from Johan in the Netherlands are a great help to understand.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 27, 2020, 11:49:56 AM
Each engine block has 6 expansion plugs; I reproduced them as good as I could. Then came the moment I have to drill the holes into the crankcase, securing partly the blocks to the crankcase. To have a consistent drilling, I did 2 supports with scrap material to have an horizontal surface for one block. For the other block I certainly will have to do two other supports because they are not reversible. Furthermore, I will need them again when I will drill the heads, blocks and crankcase.
As you see, the blocks must be closed at the top. As long as drilling is required, the "cover" will not be soldered.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on November 27, 2020, 02:21:58 PM
As always, beautiful craftsmanship Roger! Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 28, 2020, 03:15:24 AM
Thanks Clay!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 29, 2020, 11:46:19 AM
The engine blocks are ready. Finally, I soft soldered the "lid" earlier as foreseen because I will need the completed blocks to do the cylinder heads At the side of the block, 13 studs will be used to attach the heads!
On the picture, there are 2 smaller holes next to the ones figuring the cylinders. These holes are to temporarily attach the blocks to the crankcase with 2 screws each. At the back of each block, there are 5 tabs. These are needed to attach the tube hiding the spark plug wires.
Now, I'm planning the heads. Of course, the internals (valves and so on) will not be reproduced; if the heads towards the outside are fairly simple, the sides towards the center are much more complicated. Sure, once the garnish cover will be installed, it will be difficult to see that side from the heads, but I would hate to oversimplify the heads. I'm attaching a picture showing all those shapes.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 04, 2020, 12:29:25 PM
As for every part, there must be a base on which I can get the construction up. There is no difference here. I did a base and the wall which is on the exhaust/intake side. That's for the easy part, the rest will be more labor intensive. I continue with the exterior side (a picture from the real head is included) by adding the element just above the base and into which the 13 outside bolts are attaching the head to the block. As a casting an easy part, but without this possibility a bit more complicated: I did first the base without the "barrels" for the bolts. I drilled the holes at a diameter large enough to insert the barrels. Those were silver soldered to the part which is looking like a rod.
After trimming the assembly, I realized that it will be more clever to soft solder it on the base part. therefore, the parts on the pictures will be set aside for the moment. I will now go the the spark plug's side, the really complex one.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 08, 2020, 12:33:06 PM
The cylinder heads are getting more difficult as anticipated. By looking at the pictures, there are many symmetrical surfaces, easy to do. Easy? well, some surfaces are at an angle, other surfaces are at a different angle(s). The easy part, at least it was my impression: the "pockets", connected with a tube to the base of the heads have at the back a vertical surface going to the base. The pockets are separated by the shape allowing the spark plugs to be installed; the angles are different. How to conciliate both? I still don't have the answer.
I drilled first the holes for the tubes; in the original engine, the push rods are inside those tubes. Then I bent some flat brass for the pockets. I began to makes elongated holes for the spark plug's surfaces and I realized that this method was going nowhere.
Then I did another piece replicating the surfaces for the spark plus, thinking that I could attach the pockets on that. I attempted to shape a pocket with thinner brass and I had to admit that the best destination for that pocket was the waste bin.
Then, I took some thicker material which should be the pockets. I did the holes for the tubes and the grooves for the spark plugs surface and I'm there, not knowing (for the moment) how to continue.
With a 3-D program, the parts were already done, but it's not my way to modelling!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 10, 2020, 11:25:33 AM
For those who not sleep at night until I found a solution how to continue the heads, the relief is there: I succeed! I did first a small sample with the conflicting angles; this is on the LH from the first picture. This tiny exercise was a great help to see the relationship between the sections concerned. From then, I could continue, modifying the base already done. I had to silver solder tiny pieces to close the gaps and to correct the shape. Once done, that assembly was silver soldered to the head's base.
The second picture is showing the "pockets on top; both drill bits are temporarily replacing the future tubes for the push rods, 16 per side.
Some trimming must be done to the pocket assembly as it's too massive now.
I just have to do the same at the other head...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on December 10, 2020, 12:01:55 PM
Roger,

Some experience,  some ingenuity,  some skill make the difficult look easy. Amazing!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 10, 2020, 12:06:06 PM
Thanks Ralph! I just hope that the other head will give less headache!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 14, 2020, 07:01:22 AM
With the exception of many holes, for example the ones for the manifold's studs, the first head is ready. There is some small cosmetic details to be addressed; they will be done later.
I will now adapt this head on one block before I'm continuing with the other head.
On some pictures, you will see that I added some "décor" at both ends of the head.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 14, 2020, 11:32:14 AM
Did the necessary holes into one block using the head as a template. I could not resist to do a picture or two to show how tall this engine was. On top of the heads, the valve covers (which are almost as tall as the heads) will accentuate that incredible height. Imagine such an engine into a modern car: even if some recent vehicle would have an engine bay long enough, a hood would never fit!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 21, 2020, 11:19:05 AM
Both heads are ready, with the exception of minor cosmetic additions. Those heads are symmetrical and were manufactured without to know on which side they will go. Therefore, the water outlet to the radiator is on both ends. As there is no radiator at the rear, the water outlets are closed with a plate attached with screws. One threaded hole is also closed with a screw, otherwise the oil vapors would escape from that hole. The other hole on the same side is emerging in the open area from the heads, therefore no screw is used.
Each plate has a round recess; to replicate it, I did each plate with two parts, one with a hole of the proper diameter, soft soldered on a plane plate.
In the front of the engine, there is on each cylinder head end a casting with has two functions: a tube for the water and also an engine ventilator pipe. When I was looking at the pictures, I did not understand why the water outlet was associated with the ventilator tube; fortunately, one of the Johan's pictures was showing the back from the casting, explaining the mystery.
This is what I will begin now, maybe without the ventilator pipe until I can install the engine on the frame. If I'm doing that casting part now is because the valve covers are following the shape of the casting. A real casting picture is attached for comprehension.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 25, 2020, 05:51:24 AM
The minor parts in front of the heads are now over. The ventilator pipes are not yet done, because I need the engine on the frame do do them. I don't know exactly at which "altitude" they end, I will find a way to determine that. In any case, they don't go extend further down than the lower frame rail.
The oil vapors were sucked between the end of the heads and that "new" part at the crack which can be seen on the second picture. On the real engines, that space was greater because the casting was hollow.
The water outlets have a pin at their top. The fluted rubber hoses will be inserted on those pins.
To service the hydraulic lifters it was just necessary to remove the valve covers attached with 10 screws at the heads. On the model, I should need very long 0.5mm screws to attach the valve covers. As they would be unpractical and difficult to manufacture, the screws will be dummy ones and the covers attached with one central screw hidden by the oil filler caps.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: CadillacGlasses on December 28, 2020, 10:28:01 PM
This is so cool...Thanks for updating!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: www.eldorado-seville.com on December 30, 2020, 06:31:07 AM
Roger, your work is beyond awesome! Wooooowwwww
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 30, 2020, 12:02:13 PM
Thanks for the comments!

This will be the last up date for this year. I began the valve covers some days ago by shaping a brass plate as a "U" and silver soldering the shaped ends. As too often, it happen that I did one cover a tad too long! Fortunately, I could reheat one end, push the end cover away, shorten the main body and reattach the end cover.
The base plate will be soft soldered because at this stage, silver soldering is too risky with such long parts.
Once the main part and base will be soldered, I will have to decide how I will add the ridges allowing (on the real part) the screws to go through and torqued to the head. On the attached picture, you will see 10 holes which are for those ridges. I don't know yet if I will do a channel into the body for each ridge (a risky work) or if I will shape the ridges to conform the body, which will be less problematic if one part is bad.
I'm also attaching a picture from a real valve cover for comprehension. The shiny part on the top will be done separately and soft soldered to the top of the cover. As the valve covers are very prominent parts from the engine, they must be right!
Thanks for all who are following my adventure; I'm wishing you an Happy New Year!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on December 30, 2020, 12:13:24 PM
Awesome work Roger! Happy New Year to you and your friends and family. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 03, 2021, 04:54:37 AM
Clay, thanks for that globe!
I hope everybody had a good start in that year 2021.
Good news for the first update from the year. From a scale model forum, I got various suggestions how to do the bosses or ridges; while looking at those ideas I got the right solution: I attached the valve covers to a plate. This set-up allowed putting the assembly in the vice for milling. As the brass in sheets has not the same characteristic than the bulk rods, it’s more difficult to machine, therefore I had to be careful and mill only 0.1mm each pass until I had the 5 slices each side.
To have the ridges or bosses perpendicular to the base, I finished the slices with a file. Then I prepared the ridges with round stock with one hole at the upper end to insert a screw I had to machine myself as the ones I have don’t have the suitable dimension. As they are dummy screws, they will just be glued into the holes after plating.
Now, I can prepare the décor for the top of the covers.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: dadscad on January 03, 2021, 10:12:41 AM
Exquisite detail Roger. Thanks for sharing your progress with photos and descriptive thought process to explain the fabrication.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 03, 2021, 10:17:49 AM
You are welcome David!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: veesixteen on January 03, 2021, 11:46:51 AM
Quote from: dadscad on January 03, 2021, 10:12:41 AM
Exquisite detail Roger. Thanks for sharing your progress with photos and descriptive thought process to explain the fabrication.

Just so you (all) know, there has never been a nicer, friendlier, Cadillac enthusiast than Roger. He will stop at nothing to "get it right". His perseverance is beyond belief; I try, in my own way, to imitate him in my determination to reach the end.  I am proud to call Roger my friend. It has been so long, I can't even remember when we first met. At the time He was working on his first "real" Caddy, a 1956 "Sedan de Ville", the same as my FIRST Cadillac in 1966. How Christine puts up with him, we will never know! Do any of YOU bring up to your apartment, LAEGE pieces of YOUR Cadillac(s) to clean them in the BATHTUB?

The couple have a vacation home in the South of France, where they met and befriended Yvette, the younger of my two sisters. So he (and Christine) DO sometimes take time off to enjoy non-Cadillac pastimes. Sorry we missed you this past November!


You all are fascinated, like me, by Roger's expertise. We have NOT finished being WOWed, believe me !!!

(photos)

1. St. Augstine (Roger was nominated for the "YSIAA" in 2012)
2. Gala dinner (R-L): Roger, Yann, Gita, Chris Cummings, Chris`daughter
3. The YSIAA award plaque (the award has since been abolished ...)
4.  Roger with my sister, Yvette ... admiring the cars at St. Augustine
5.  Roger invited to tea with her friend "Cree-Cree" at Roger & Christine's summer home.


Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 03, 2021, 12:25:32 PM
Yann, thanks for those memories !
The second picture is remembering how different Americans can be from people from Europe (at least the countries I know): as you can see, there were glasses full of I suppose ice tea. Not my gusto for a dinner, so I went to the side desk to order a bottle of red wine. The lady who spoke with me was disoriented: what would you like? a glass of red wine? No, the complete bottle! She had to ask other people what that would cost as it seems that ordering a complete bottle is unusual...Of course, I did not drank the whole bottle myself!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 07, 2021, 04:31:01 AM
Finally, the valve covers were finished by adding the décor on top. The lines were machined with a very narrow milling tool and the décor soft welded on the cover. The original parts are aluminum, with the décor polished, the remaining surfaces being black. As my parts are made with brass, the covers will be chromed and painted like the original parts.

The question I was faced was: with what will I continue? After switching between gear box and water pump, I opted for the water pump and the 3 water tubes, two on the passenger side and one on the left side.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Mike Baillargeon #15848 on January 07, 2021, 07:37:20 AM
WOW !!.....Just wow Roger !!

Mike
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 09, 2021, 12:50:36 PM
Thanks Mike!

As I wrote earlier, I began the water pump. That damn part is full of curves; almost nothing is straight, with the exception of the attaching brackets to the crankcase. Even if I have many pictures from that element, I had difficulties to begin the work. Finally, I opted for the water pump cover. The base is now done but the pipe coming from the radiator which is casted with the cover is not yet done, because I don't know how to begin it. It has an elbow at its lower part, plus a provision for a petcock. It goes towards the crankcase, rendering it asymmetrical.  Maybe I will take a bit of brass and carve it.
A solution will come, like for the pump's body but I don't know when.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 12, 2021, 10:56:53 AM
Finally, the water pump cover is ready. Maybe not ready for paint, but there will be only cosmetic improvements, if any. The "long" tube was done with a full bar; the end on which the rubber hose will be attached is a short tube silver soldered on the bar. That assembly was then silver soldered on the cover you saw recently. Other small details were soft soldered.
It's now the turn to the main body for the pump. Again a battle to get it, but not as bad as the one in the Capitol.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on January 12, 2021, 11:54:02 AM
Roger I see some apparent solder stains on part of this work. I do not think that would have been on the original cast iron piece :D  LOL. Seriously, looking good and I am astonished by your fine attention to detail. Happy New Year. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 13, 2021, 02:23:45 AM
Thanks Clay! The solder is there on purpose, to make a fillet!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: carguyblack on January 13, 2021, 09:51:50 AM
I think I know how Stonehenge and the Pyramids were built...... by Roger!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 13, 2021, 12:27:33 PM
No, no, no Chuck: I was not yet born and I don't like old stones!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on January 13, 2021, 01:54:26 PM
Chuck, Roger can't be that old! Stonehenge is ancient. But perhaps he built "Carhenge" in this era??? Check out the '55 Caddy mounted on top. Looks like Roger's handy work to me. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: carguyblack on January 13, 2021, 03:21:39 PM
I'm sure everyone knows that I didn't mean to imply age but rather ability. Roger, it's a long way from Switzerland to Michigan to bop me over the head for a perceived insult, anyway! Watching the progress, I continue to be amazed at your skill level and patience. What a joy for some of us who don't even have opposing thumbs to see this level of possibility and reality in you, Roger. Hard not to be jealous!
Stay well,
Chuck
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 14, 2021, 03:23:30 AM
Chuck, I did understand the joke, no problem! I just did not know what would be a good answer...One part of my previous answer was indeed appropriate: I'm not good at working with gravel, stones, concrete...So, the pyramids and me are two separate entities!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 23, 2021, 08:05:28 AM
After a short vacation, the work resumed on the water pump. After the front cover, I began the rear part of the pump which is more or less flat. I silver soldered this plate to the "legs" which are attaching the pump to the block. I did a hole into that plate which is the axis for the impeller; it must be more or less aligned with the one from the generator. Rubber couplings are used at both ends as a solid shaft was not realistic due to the production variation.
As I did not know how to continue the rear part, I did the pump's front flange; on the picture, this part is on the floor near the block. Most probably, the part between the front flange and the back will be solid; then, once the exterior shape will be acceptable, I will do a large hole in the middle to save some weight.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Alex D. on January 23, 2021, 10:52:22 AM
Roger, I am always in WOW of the talent and attention to detail that you have. As an owner of a V12 version of the V16 I can appreciate the challenge you are facing. If I may point out, The draft tube on the generator should be at the bottom and an air intake on the top.

Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 23, 2021, 10:56:54 AM
Alex, thanks for your comments. You are right about the draft tube: it's not in the right position. I forgot to mention that I'll let it that way, so it will not be damaged when the crankcase is on the working table.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 25, 2021, 12:47:59 PM
As you may imagine, I'm glad that the pump is ready. Such a small part and so complex! I'm pretty sure that it's not a 100% exact replicate of a real one; working with pictures is not quite easy. There is always one picture missing to see this or that detail or the relation between two elements!
The first picture is showing the 3 elements for the pump. The hole in the center is the "fil rouge" as with an inserted shaft I had at least the correct position of the 3 elements relative to each others.
The body on the second picture is ready and on the last two, the pump is installed on the crankcase. This time, the generator is in his correct position; it will be removed for the subsequent jobs which will be the fabrication of the two tubes between the pump and the crankcase and head and the long one located the other side.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: CadillacGlasses on January 25, 2021, 07:59:25 PM
I wish there was a 'like button' for all your updates, this is looking awesome
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: carguyblack on January 26, 2021, 08:12:02 AM
I agree with Mike. Usually, I don't have anything intelligent to add to the conversation and I'll bet there are a lot out there who feel the same. But, I'll also bet there are a bunch of us watching these posts with eager amazement. Roger, please continue the thread as you have been! Even though we may not input it, doesn't mean we are not captivated by it all. For me, it's a matter of deciding what to say to an mechanical Einstein when I hardly know which end of a screwdriver to hang on to - so I talk myself out of replying! Sincerely, thanks for continuing to update us on your progress and know we are with you all the way in spirit. Amazing work you are doing!
Chuck
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on January 26, 2021, 10:26:25 AM
Ditto the last 2 comments. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 26, 2021, 11:26:35 AM
Thanks for your comments! I know that it's difficult to make "intelligent" comments when people watching this thread are not involved into modeling. I however see that the number of views is growing!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 29, 2021, 06:32:20 AM
Now the water pump could begin to work as I added the three water "tubes" which are indeed solid. Even if those tube are looking easy to do, they were not: the flange must be aligned to  the block and the pump; the radius must be tight (I did them by cutting slices into the material and silver soldered the tube) and the length must correspond. The long tube at the LH side should be parallel to the block at both axis; unfortunately, when looking at the picture, you will notice that it's not exactly parallel to the block but, from above or under, it's perfect. When the exhaust and intake manifolds will be installed, this flaw will be unnoticed.
To do the tubes, I removed the pump's cover. I will now do the shaft with the joints between the generator and pump.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 03, 2021, 07:16:18 AM
Sometimes the initial idea is good and then the realization not so. I wanted to do the flexible joints between the generator and the water pump. In fact, it's simple: two discs with "fingers" and a bit rubber in between. It would be easy to do them at a 1:8 scale, but at 1:12, the end result is so, so. The Dow Corning rubber (An ivory and a black thick liquid are mixes together; my product is about 40 years old!) is nice to do tires but for very small elements like that flexible joint, a reinforced rubber would be more appropriate, but I cannot machine that kind of material. Plus the fact that the "fingers" from the discs are not spaced exactly the same.
The whole assembly (the shaft between both joints is still to be done) must be under slight pressure, otherwise the joints will not stay together!
Anyway, something is not bad: I added the "gland" for the lubrication of the water pump shaft; it's not bad looking. The gland, the joints and the shaft will be chromed. A lot of chromed parts were used on this engine.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 04, 2021, 06:13:24 AM
Finally, those flexible joints are not too bad. I cleaned a bit more the flashes from the silicone rubber; once installed, the joints are decently looking. They even do their job as you can see at the water pump: the pump is not exactly aligned with the generator and looking at the joint, the upper "rubber" is thinner than at the bottom. If necessary, I can rotate the shaft but, as I had to make some compression at the joints, there is a lot of friction. Nevertheless, this is a static model and, when the carb will be installed, there will be no possibility to play with the shaft.
To accelerate the process with the silicone rubber, I heated it with the mold at about 100°C or more. The excess product took about two days to polymerize at room temperature!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 07, 2021, 07:50:42 AM
The pictured parts will be the transmission. The "thing" at left is the main case and the other one at right should be the junction between the case and the flywheel case. Some hammer blows are still needed as well as some more work. Like all elements, the beginning is sometimes rather crude.
No, the engine is not ready but I wanted to do something else.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 11, 2021, 07:49:42 AM
The last few days saw some improvements at the parts from the transmission. Elements were added at the main body; some more will come next. At first, I intended to adjust the main body to the flywheel cover; finally, I inserted the body into the cover. With this move, it will be easier to control distances and alignment. Both elements are not yet soldered; I will first add details on the RH side of the main body.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 13, 2021, 12:04:46 PM
The last details were added on the main body of the transmission. On the LH side: drain and refill plugs. On the RH side: 3 attaching points and the vertical surface for the locking yoke pin plate. On the V-12 and V-16, both front attaching points are used to attach the ratchet for the hand brake lever; on the V-8 cars, the two rear attaching points are used for the ratchet.
Now, I "just" have to attach the case to the flywheel cover...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 15, 2021, 09:37:49 AM
The main case was silver soldered to the flywheel cover. This operation was critical as the transmission must be in a good alignment with the engine.
Now, I'm two steps away to have the transmission's case ready: the provision for the clutch lever on the LH side and the one for the starter motor on the RH side must be added. As I neglected to measure in detail both elements, I will have to rely on the many pictures I have to do something decent.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Cadman-iac on February 15, 2021, 11:03:17 AM
Hi Roger,
I guess the tricky part is loading all the gears and the counter shaft into the case. Ha ha!! Ya gotta get that alignment right so the shaft doesn't bind.
All joking aside,  that's beautiful work. I'm know that we all will love to see it when done.

Rick
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: carguyblack on February 15, 2021, 06:13:29 PM
It may look perfect but will it shift smoothly?? :D
Great work as always, Roger.
Chuck
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 16, 2021, 04:33:47 AM
Rick & Chuck: no problem about the gears: they are flexible and totally silent as they are just in the imagination of the viewer's mind! I'm glad I don't try to reproduce the gears with their synchronization system: it was really complex.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 19, 2021, 09:54:34 AM
If the provision for the clutch lever went not too bad (I have much more time to design and "place" it on the transmission than to do the part), it's another story for the installation of the starter motor. Finally, I began with the motor, working towards the transmission. As I had the length and diameter of the motor, I have the impression that it will be easier to adapt the assembly to the transmission than doing the contrary.
Just to show you why it's difficult, I'm adding two pictures from the original assembly. You will notice that all elements after the starter motor are at odd angles and not in line with the motor because there was  a reduction gear. No picture about what I did because a starter motor is just a cylinder, nothing spectacular.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 26, 2021, 05:25:32 AM
So much time for so little! In fact, I spent 3 afternoons to install the front seat into my '72 coupe, scale 1:1. Even if it was only 5°C, I did not felt the cold temperature because those seats are not easy to handle, especially alone!
In between, I could do the tortuous parts between the starter motor and the transmission. I began the parts attached to the starter motor, going forwards. At one time, I had to begin the adapter which is part of the transmission's case, hoping that no major flaw would appear when all is assembled. I'm making no illusion: the assembly is looking similar to the real one, but not exactly identical.
Some details must be added like the flange for the operating lever. As most of the readers don't know how that starter motor is operated, a short description may be useful: when the driver want to start the engine, he is pushing a pedal located at the right of the gas pedal. With some levers and rods, this action has two consequences: first the pinion is pushed forwards to the flywheel and second, the lever is pushing a contact on a switch installed on the top of the starter motor, connecting the battery to the motor. With some chance, the engine will start. As I never experienced myself such a starting procedure, owners for car dating from this time will correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: dadscad on February 26, 2021, 10:40:40 AM
Amazing detail, Roger. It's interesting that the starter is almost as large as the transmission.  But they were in their infancy at the time. I remember back in the 1950's, the pickup truck and larger haulers had the same starter switch mechanism as you described. I've punched a lot of those pedals when I was a kid. Brings back the memories. Thanks for sharing your project!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 26, 2021, 10:45:39 AM
Thanks for your comments, David! Interesting to learn that the system was still used in the fifties for trucks. At least, my understanding was not wrong!
I did notice too that the starter motor is huge compared to the transmission.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 28, 2021, 10:07:35 AM
The last details were added to the starter motor: the switch, some ribs and the flange for the lever pushing on the switch's button. Now that the assembly is completed, I can do that lever.
I gave a light coat of primer to avoid further oxidation.
The apertures at the commutator's end are just here for the fun. They should be wider to be correct. Anyway, a large cover band will be added later, similar to the one for the generator.
On the pictures I have from Johan, there is another bracket welded on top of the switch for a different actuating lever. On the '32 V-8 photos album, also from Johan, there is no bracket. Therefore I skip it.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 07, 2021, 08:35:02 AM
There are still a myriad of small parts do do to declare the transmission "completed": the clutch lever, the upper cover with the shaft for the hand brake, the adapter on the left side with the shaft for the clutch and brake pedals, and son on. I elected to continue towards the rear for a good reason: to be able to finish the frame. Transmission and frame? What is the relation? Easy: there are 6 supports for the engine and transmission: 2 at the front, which are done. Two at the rear of the engine, attached to the frame and finally, two at the end of the transmission attached to the second cross member. I need the complete engine and transmission to do this cross member!
The next part needed was the housing for the main shaft of the transmission (sans shaft on the model). This part is an assembly of a "hat" and a lower housing. I had the stupid idea to do the lower housing in one piece. The end result was not so good, therefore is did it in two bits assembled with silver solder.
On the picture, the "hat" has a hole. This was needed to remove the shaft from the idler gear in case of trouble with the transmission installed in the frame.
The next element will be more complicated with my simple equipment: creating the ball seat, ball assembly and rear support. The ball assembly is needed to allow the drive shaft's tube to follow the movements of the suspension. As my suspension will be active like my other models, I cannot escape this provision.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 12, 2021, 12:39:49 PM
When a scale model is just a push mobile, some liberties are possible. As mentioned in my last post, the torque tube for the drive shaft is attached to a ball. This element is looking like a bell with an outside shape like a ball and the inside shaped in a similar fashion. That ball is pushing on a ball seat and the transmission support is the third member of the assembly. There is a procedure to minimize the free play. That complex set-up is not really suitable for a scale model, so I simplified it. The ball seat in my construction is indeed a ball; the ball as designed by the manufacturer is resting on it. As in reality, the support is closing the assembly.
At first, I intended to have the ball pushed against the transmission support with a spring, however, as the assembly must prevent the rear axle to go forth and back, I modified my design.
The first picture is showing the "ball seat"; the ball and rear support are on the second picture. The third one is showing the assembly. I have some free play (maybe 0.2mm - 0.008") which will not be detrimental to the model.
The rear transmission support is a nice casting which took more time to build as the ball and its seat. Now, I have the total length from the engine and transmission; I will begin the second cross member soon; I may have some other details to do.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 14, 2021, 08:05:47 AM
As a preparation for the cross member, I assembled the transmission with 3 screws to the engine and put the assembly into the frame. The transmission's supports are about at mid-distance of the frame! The "usable" space is indeed rather small compared to a modern car. No wonder that they offered a longer wheelbase! My model is on the short one, 143".
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 21, 2021, 08:58:10 AM
That second cross member took a long time to build. And sometimes I'm not very productive...Also, it's always a bit difficult to show something at the "right" moment; some may be bored to see some brass bits before the part is looking the way it should. Now I can show it and the way it will be in relation to the transmission: I "just" have to add the brackets to the cross member! You'll probably noticed that the supports at the transmission have bushing made with rubber, more or less like the original. The goal here is not to avoid to transmit vibrations to the frame but to facilitate the installation of the bolts as the bushing/brackets may not align perfectly.
The cross member is also not yet ready to install in the frame: the brake system is attached to it. I have to begin the supports for the actuating tubes; once the supports can be screwed on that crossmember I will solder it to the frame. After that, any drilling at the front or rear will be impossible. Therefore a good planning is the key to the lack of failure!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on March 21, 2021, 12:14:41 PM
 As usual beautiful craftsmanship. I also enjoy seeing the interim work steps that get a piece to it's finished shape
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 21, 2021, 12:19:43 PM
Quote from: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on March 21, 2021, 12:14:41 PM
I also enjoy seeing the interim work steps that get a piece to it's finished shape
Thanks Ralph! Sometimes I'm too lazy to picture the interim shape...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on March 21, 2021, 06:54:32 PM
You definitely won't be getting any vibrations with that beautiful set-up.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: dadscad on March 21, 2021, 07:44:36 PM
Quote from: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on March 21, 2021, 12:14:41 PM
As usual beautiful craftsmanship. I also enjoy seeing the interim work steps that get a piece to it's finished shape

I agree, watching the intricate pieces come together to create the whole part, is as fascinating as the final assembly. Then that part becomes an addition to the larger part, interesting to see it all comming together.

Roger, you have a rare gift, I appreciate your willingness to share with us.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 22, 2021, 10:25:59 AM
Thanks for the comments! As you like to see more than the finished part or assembly, I'm attaching a picture you will probably don't understand the reason. I'm showing first the original set-up for the brake rocker shafts attached at the second cross member.
As I would like to have operative brakes (a dream from youth: when I first began my Avanti model, I wanted to have...hydraulic brakes. I did not even had a lathe then. Needless to say, they were stillborn), the system must be reproduced as well as possible. However, if you are looking at my own picture, it does not look like the original system. What am I trying to do?
The answer soon!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on March 22, 2021, 06:28:49 PM
Now this is a first.   Never seen toes in a picture, especially standing on a pair of Mufflers.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 23, 2021, 06:56:28 AM
Well, Bruce, to do the picture, I could not stand on the new mufflers with shoes...As it was in August, I don't wear socks...

Well, maybe some had a sleepless night not knowing what I intended to do. The solution is here: it's a special tool combined with an element which will be used. The picture below is giving some light, as well as a picture from the real bracket for the rocker shafts.
For a long time, I had no idea how I could position in the air a bearing, a flange and the links attaching them. Not only both brackets should be identical regarding the position of both bearings but the rocker shafts must move without binding.
The solution I found was to make a long strip with both flanges, add on that strip two brackets to held the shafts at the proper distance.
When the brackets will be ready, the excess material will be removed.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 25, 2021, 01:46:20 PM
With a lot of guessing and silver soldering, the brackets for the rocker shafts are done. I also added the thread to attach the exhaust support.
My first guessing was not right, the first shaft was too near from the cross member (or the shape from the cross member is not quite correct). I had to tilt up the special tool and add a spacer on the bracket's flange. With that, the second shaft was much too high (it would have been above the frame); I had to modify the tool to have it at the "right" place. Then the job was cut, adjust, solder, let cool to handle it, verify that both shafts are still free and so on, and so on.
There are still two holes at the cross member to be drilled; they could be done with the cross member installed in the frame. The holes are for the brake booster bracket; I'm sure it's better to drill them when I have the lateral position of the booster.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on March 25, 2021, 02:46:44 PM
Fantastic work as always Roger. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 28, 2021, 01:18:47 PM
Thanks Clay!

Finally, the frame is ready: I fabricated the supports for the transmission and silver soldered them to the second cross member. With that done, it was rather easy to put the cross member into the frame (thanks its elasticity, I had not too much trouble to insert and remove it several times times) and soft soldering it. The rivets are not yet in place as you can see.
The rubber bushings at the rear transmission was a wise decision, with my construction's variations, the holes in the supports are not perfectly aligned with the bushings.
That second cross member is giving a significant torsion's resistance to the frame, but I'm sure that those frames are not very rigid and the road behavior was certainly miles away as what we have today. As almost all cars were made is a similar fashion, it was considered as "normal".
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 05, 2021, 07:41:55 AM
Sometimes, I'm wandering from one element to another one, without relation between both. After the frame was ready, I was faced with the same question: and now? There are still hundreds of parts to be made, the choice is large enough! This time, I decided to finish one element: the transmission.
The closing cover was just not yet done, not a big deal. This small part let me do many errors by not paying attention at what I was doing.
I first did the flat part from the cover with a thick brass plate. Easy. Then I did the holes for the screws. As the location for the holes is done just with a rule, they are not perfectly spaced/aligned and I know that. With the flat element ready, I used it to drill the holes into the transmission's case. This implied that just one position of the cover's base would be right.
When I silver soldered the curved part on the base, I managed to flip it over; in other words, I soldered the next part on what should be the surface contacting the transmission's case. Result: the hole were no more perfectly aligned. I enlarged 3 from the 6 until I could insert the screws.
Then it was time to make a large hole in the curved part for the shift lever "tower". The position of it is not in the middle and here, I managed to do it at the wrong end! I had to enlarge more holes to be able to screw the cover...Fortunately, the bolt's heads are large enough to cover the holes...
The remaining elements were added without problem. One of them is the shaft for the hand brake. The small cylinder at one end is representing the switch for the back-up lamp.

The hand brake lever is therefore part of the transmission... I will continue with that. This is a monstrous lever half meter long which recall me the brake lever the "driver" from the cable cars in San Francisco are using, at least is what I saw in the seventies.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 06, 2021, 08:23:38 AM
The hand brake lever is looking a lot like a sculpture from the Swiss Giacometti, but has no value compared to his "marvels"!
For the moment, there is just the profile from that lever and the lower part is far from finished: there will be a fork for the pawl. I will first doing the upper part and then the lower one.
On the real car, this lever is about 20" tall from the axle to the end...Imagine that is a car from today!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: dadscad on April 07, 2021, 03:38:52 PM
WOW......lookin' like the real-deal, to me! Enjoying watching the components comming together to make the whole.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 09, 2021, 08:48:02 AM
Another small item for David: the ratchet for the hand brake. At first glance, it's an easy part, but not for a model. First, I wanted to have it wide enough for strength, but the starter motor said no: I'm too close. The plan B was to have a thinner plate to satisfy the starter motor and a wider element with the teeth. But, how to do the teeth? On my basic machine, I cannot mill a curved segment and be sure that the distance between teeth is the same. As I intended to do the part in two pieces, the solution was easy: to mill the teeth on a straight piece with a 60° milling tool and then to bend the segment to soft solder it on the base.
I have now to do the pawl; if my construction will work as intended is totally unsure. If I have no success, that will be just decorative and not functional.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 11, 2021, 06:42:45 AM
It seems that my expectation about a workable hand brake will come to reality. I did the pawl, out of steel as brass may be too weak. Indeed, I made two pieces. As the first one did not please me, the second one was refined, somewhat shorter and the geometry modified a bit. When the lower part of the hand brake lever will go to the left, the pawl is preventing the movement. On the contrary, the pawl allow the movement and the hand brake can be set without using the handle at the top of the lever, which will be done shortly.
The hole on the lever just above the pawl is for the rod actuating the rear brakes.
Thanks to Alex D., I modified the handle of the lever. My estimated dimensions were way too generous. Alex measured the assembly from his car and submitted a nice drawing with legible dimensions. The handle seen on the picture is half way between my estimates and Alex's dimensions. As brass is not the strongest material (and I cannot do the lever in steel), I will probably choose a compromise between reality and something stronger.
Thanks Alex!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 12, 2021, 12:40:21 PM
Only a small detail is missing; otherwise, the hand brake lever is complete. What's missing? A tiny spring which is located between the movable handle and the fixed one. With the spring, the pawl is pushed down, securing the lever when the hand brake is activated.
As you can see, the rod is screwed into the trunnion. I wanted to skip that complication, but I quickly realized that this is need, otherwise the rod cannot be inserted into the guide near the pivoting point.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 13, 2021, 12:30:38 PM
A tiny spring...No rocket science, isn't it? Well, if only I would have fingers' size in relation to the spring! It went twice in the air, found it on the floor both times, a luck!
Now, the hand brake lever is functional; I hope that after the plating (only the tiny rod is painted), there will be enough play at the handle and pawl to let the spring doing his job, because his strength is rather limited!
I will go now to the other side of the transmission: one cover must be done plus the brake and clutch support which is bolted to the transmission. I think I will need again the help from Alex for the location of the pedals...
Don't look too much at my nail: it get sometimes caught by the files as fingers are sometimes the best vice!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Alex D. on April 15, 2021, 09:34:35 AM
Impressive craftmanship Roger. Glad to help out in any way I can.

Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 15, 2021, 09:56:46 AM
Thanks Alex! By the way, you got a PM in the AACA forum...
That's a fine service: Alex sent me the needed measures! thanks Alex!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 17, 2021, 06:59:11 AM
Before I began with the complex casting supporting the brake and clutch pedals (for which Alex sent me critical dimensions, thanks again Alex!), I did both covers which were missing: the one for the idle gear and the one for the clutch ventilation. Now I can, with the help from many pictures, design that support attached to the transmission.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 21, 2021, 06:29:50 AM
That tiny stupid support for the pedals took me a long time to understand its general shape! Finally, I got it more or less right; I hope that the position of the pedal's shaft is not too far away from the reality.
When I did the pictures from that frame and engine, the free-wheeling system was removed or was never installed as I don't know if it was standard or optional. As the bracket is the same for all V-12 and V-16 engines, "my" bracket has the provisions to install the valving (there are the tiny holes flanking the shaft), but will stay that way. Anyway, as I have pictures from a 1932 V-8 equipped with that system, I'm wondering how both boosters could be attached to the frame; I have the impression that there is not enough space.
I did also the 4 "yoke adjusting quadrants" and temporarily installed them. It was wise: I noticed that the screw behind the hand brake lever was interfering with the lever. I made it thinner in that location and reduced the height of the bold attaching that quadrant.
The next goal? The gear shift. Alex gave me its length (another dimension I skipped when I could have measure it) and it's time for it.

Most all my brass parts are silver soldered. For years, I had Castolin 1802 rods in 1 mm or 1.5 mm diameter. That specific solder is no more available because it contains cadmium. The manufacturer is now selling the Castolin 1800 which is cadmium free, but has a higher content of silver. The temperature needed is almost the same, so I can do the switch. There is just one problem: nobody is selling those rods by the piece as it was the case years ago. The minimum quantity is 1/2 kg for about $ 650.00. Finally, I gave up with my researches and ordered that minimum quantity. I will probably have silver soldering material for the next 100 years! Anyway, a local jeweler is interested to buy some quantity from that material, but I don't know how many rods...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 23, 2021, 10:38:13 AM
Indeed, a shifter is not that difficult to do, except that its diameter is not constant. It's not possible to machine it the usual way because, due to the length, its too flexible. I had to improvise doing a bit after the other, taking care that the shaft is not like a camel.
As I like difficulties, I added a "H" grille into the transmission, used a ball from a bearing, added some small parts and now, the lever can be shifted to all four positions. Totally unnecessary, but fun!
The next job: the brake and clutch pedals. I will do first the basic; the multitude of levers, springs and so on, especially for the brake system, will be added when the suspension will be added as I need the axles for the various rods.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: carguyblack on April 23, 2021, 06:39:21 PM
Just amazing work! Thoroughly enjoy seeing the engineering and manufacturing and hearing your thought process throughout. Captivating. I always hope there is a new post by you every time I log on to the CLC!!!
Chuck
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 29, 2021, 08:48:54 AM
Chuck, thanks for your comments!
Due to maintenance at my old cars scale 1:1, there was a slow activity with the model. Anyway, there is some news. I began the clutch and brake pedals. As I had not enough material 2mm thick, I silver soldered two 1 mm elements to have the adequate thickness at the base. The thickness at the top is about half; the pedal at the left is now ready for further working on it, the pedal at the right must still be "thinned".
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 02, 2021, 12:53:16 PM
 Those crude brass parts evolved into something more near to the reality. On the first picture, the clutch pedal is on the left. In the reality, but pedal stops are adjustable; on my model, only the clutch pedal has its adjusting screw because I could not position the stopping hub in a position to skip the adjusting screw. The original hub is positioned on the shaft with splines, I just put a screw as the effort will not be that huge.

The next step: create the clutch lever which will be actuated by the clutch pedal. I'm skipping the freewheeling system to avoid too much complication.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 04, 2021, 03:51:23 AM
The clutch lever should be functioning. Pictures later!
Just finished the clutch lever with the link to the clutch pedal. The assembly is externally functional which means that there is nothing inside the transmission except a strong spring to simulate the real clutch springing. This is totally futile like the gear lever going through the gates, but its fun!
The last picture is showing what I had to do to warrant the correct position of the clutch lever and to prevent its rotation.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Glen on May 05, 2021, 02:20:34 AM
That's a work of art.  Great workmanship. 
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Mike Baillargeon #15848 on May 05, 2021, 12:28:02 PM
Quote from: Glen on May 05, 2021, 02:20:34 AM
That's a work of art.  Great workmanship.

I'll second that Glen.....I'm over in a different thread pounding on a piece of sheet metal with a ball peen hammer, trying to get my water pump to stop leaking....

Then I come over to what Roger is doing here....absolutely incredible work!!....WOW !!!

I have my 1929 Roadster on the lift and I walk underneath it and I see all the detail on the full scale car as in the size of your car!!....Incredible !!

Mike
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 05, 2021, 12:54:24 PM
Thanks Glen and Mike!
There are indeed a lot of differences between 1929 and 1932: the frame is different, the transmission too and, of course the sole engine available for 1929 is a V-8. On V-16 cars, the frame was new for 1930/31 and new again for 1932/33. However, the techniques used at that time are very similar: lot of castings, grease nipples everywhere, torque tube and so on...So, don't try to change something on your Roadster by looking at my pictures!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 13, 2021, 06:48:18 AM
Nowadays, a brake pedal is a pad with a lever on a shaft, period. It can push a rod or be connected one way or the other to an ABS system, but the pedal itself is easy. Not so with a car from the thirties with power brakes. There is a reaction lever attached to the pedal and an acting lever which is pulled by the vacuum system. I'm skipping further details as this is irrelevant for the model. I tried to build that system by simplifying some aspects, but in general the look is there. All is indeed simple, but the shape of the parts is not.
On the pictures, you can see on the top the clevis which will pull a rod to activate the brakes. That clevis has an elongated hole; this is the method to avoid that the brake pedal is moved when the hand brake is activated.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 18, 2021, 10:49:04 AM
While I was at the brake system, I did continue with the booster. Not a too difficult part do do, even if the rivets at both ends were maybe unnecessary to reproduce. The booster is attached to the frame with a support, for once not a casting but two stamped sheet metal parts spot welded together. It's what I did, with soft solder instead of spot welds. Unfortunately, that support is no good: it's too thick and should be positioned a tad towards the center of the frame. I will have to do another one, with thinner material.
Why all that complication? Because the way it is now, I could not attach the rod coming from the brake pedal to the (not yet born) lever welded to the rocker shaft. With a gain over .5mm (0.02"), the rod position will be fine!
Some explanation about the picture: the rod connecting the booster to the brake pedal is indeed a drill bit, with it I saw that the booster is not contacting the transmission's support and the future rod will be parallel to the frame's axis. The short axle to the booster is a temporary one.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 24, 2021, 07:05:26 AM
Still working at the brake system. I added 3 lever on the rear rocker shaft and did the clevis for the booster. There should be a rubber boot between the brake pedal lever and the booster; it will be added later.
More levers/small pieces will next be added to the system.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 28, 2021, 12:53:46 PM
The previous picture was showing the rear rocker shaft which is responsible for the rear brakes. Now I did the one for the front brakes. As the actuating levers are located outside the bearings, they must be removable. Fortunately, I kept the "tooling" for the actuators located at each drum, so I could do the necessary splines. Maybe the shaft is a tad too small (0.2 - 0.3mm) and on those levers, there are more than 6 splines. To reproduce that exactly would be too much work. However, I noticed a strange detail when looking at my pictures: the LH actuating lever is looking like a blade (mine is probably too thick) while the RH actuating lever is a more conventional in design. And this is not an error on that car: I have also pictures from a 1932 V-8 brake system, it's identical. The parts book is also clear; the RH lever has not the same part number as the LH one.
My theory is the following: the LH actuating lever must have some flexibility, and the RH one is rigid. Maybe when doing an heavy braking, the LH lever is flexing if the RH one can go further, like a differential actuation. I don't see a different explanation but I don't know everything!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on June 02, 2021, 05:02:54 AM
Still working on the brakes. Both rocker shafts are now complete and temporarily installed. I saw that the levers actuating the front brakes were too short and the rods going to the front wheels would interfere with the cross member #2. Probably my measurement in Germany was correct, but the rocker shaft may be located too low or the crossmember not 100% correct. To avoid the issue, I made the a tad longer with some modification.
The cotter pins you may be able to see are not the definitive ones; I had to do something simple for the testing.
As far as I can see it, the brake system will be really functioning. Certainly not perfectly, but at the speed the model will be used, there is no danger and no recall will be issued!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on June 05, 2021, 01:17:20 PM
Brakes, continuation. Indeed, I was almost closing this chapter by finishing the hand brake. And then, the trouble began: when the clevis with the rod was installed on the hand brake lever, I saw to my dismay that the décor on the transmission side was pushing the lever to the side and the pawl was no more contacting the ratchet. I bent a tad the lever to clear the transmission side. No interference anymore, but the pawl did not contact the ratchet anymore. No problem, two thick washer will correct the distance.
But...but if I'm doing that, the starter motor will be impossible to install.
The sole solution was to diminish the thickness of the décor, which was done after removing the engine from the frame and separating the transmission. After I was thinking there is enough material away, a quick check said that I'm right. The power train was again installer on the frame (it quickly done) and I could try the brake system. Another trouble: by pushing the brake pedal 1/3 of his travel, the rod from the hand brake was contacting the actuating lever for the RH rear brake. Even if I tried to make my parts as precise as possible, I certainly missed some details. I solved the situation by shortening the actuating lever and doing a longer link for the hand brake.
Now, it seems that the system is functioning as I hoped it would do.
First picture: the brake system is not actuated.
Second picture: the hand brake is on; the elongated holes at the clevis from the brake pedal allowed the main rod to go forwards, without disturbing the brake pedal.
Third picture: the brake pedal is pushed, moving all actuating levers; the link I had to redo is tilting to the rear, allowing the hand brake lever to stay at his place.
Hydraulic brakes eliminated all those problems but created others!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on June 11, 2021, 06:55:14 AM
Hi Yann!
Thanks for your comments about the scale model.
Unfortunately, I have no answer to the other topic you posted.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on June 14, 2021, 12:30:51 PM
For the moment, I cannot continue with the brake system: for that, the axles must be under the frame (or the frame above the axles); for that, I must first do the springs. I will have to buy spring steel, I don't have enough material presently.
there are enough element missing at the engine to be busy for a long time. Recently, I did the breather. This part will be aluminum color at the bottom, the part above the base will be black and the cover will be chromed.
To drill the necessary holes into the crankcase, I had to remove various elements. The engine will stay that way for a while as I will do now the fuel pump, located just before the breather.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: dadscad on July 12, 2021, 10:20:58 PM
Roger, just curious,  are You still working on the project or are you taking a vacation break? We've been missing your updates! Thanks for sharing the steps to make the model.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 13, 2021, 06:34:58 AM
Thanks for asking, David! Yes, we had our summer vacation, therefore nothing happened to the model. This week, I resumed the construction; I'm not after the fuel pump. As it will be seen, I'm trying to make as few shortcuts as possible. I'm attaching a picture showing the unfinished upper part of the pump.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: dadscad on July 13, 2021, 08:07:09 PM
Without the two bit coin, you'd think it was the real deal!

Hope your vacation was great!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Mike Baillargeon #15848 on July 13, 2021, 08:23:39 PM
Roger the level of detail is just amazing!

How do you get the proportions right?....Like the size of that top of the fuel pump to say the size of the valve cover....

Do you measure the pictures you take and then do some kind of calculation to get the right size?.....

That pump cover is exactly what the top of my pump looks like....it is truly amazing!!

Mike
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 14, 2021, 02:19:12 AM
@ David: Thanks, the vacation was fine! Indeed it was partly a work camp: we have a house in South of France with a large green surface. We have someone looking at it, but there is enough work to do as our last "visit" was in January 2021.
@ Mike: The fuel pump top is not yet finished, wait till every bit of brass is attached! I have the illustration from the very thin shop manual and many pictures. I recorded one major dimension from the pump when I was in Germany two years ago; with that and some calculation, I can find the dimension from all the tiny details. Precision? Not 100% but good enough for the purpose.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 14, 2021, 07:33:12 AM
The lower part from the pump is ready. Have a look at the previous picture; you will see what I added. There are 14 pieces which are silver soldered together, one after the other. With that syringe for the silver solder paste, no rework is needed to remove the excess solder. This task would be impossible with a soldering rod.
Now, I can begin the lower part with the flange attaching the pump to the engine. There will be less tiny parts...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 17, 2021, 12:45:03 PM
The second half from the pump is ready. I also added the vapor dome to the upper part. As you can see, the upper part got a thin coat of primer; during it's handling, the paint of the edges is gone!
To complete the pump, I still have to do the "glass" bowl for the fuel filter. I also have to do the provisions to attach the glass on the first part; there are often small needed details which are easily forgotten.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 20, 2021, 07:27:00 AM
The provisions for the fuel bowl were added (tiny cylinders soft soldered) and both halves were glued together. Glued? Why? Just because I did an error: I intended at first to attach both halves with .5mm bolts; when I was ready to drill the necessary holes, I switched to 0.6mm because I had tiny screws which heads are more in line with the original screws. Unfortunately, I had only 6 or 7 such screws and during all those years, I never found equivalent screws again. I decided to revert to the first decision, but now the holes are too large. To modify the lower half with silver solder would be hazardous, therefore I will put the 0.5mm bolts as intended, but glued.
I attached the pump at its location, well hidden behind the front engine support. The upper part is turned at about 45°, otherwise, the fuel bowl would interfere seriously with the frame.
I will do now the fuel bowl in plexiglass. I could machine that part in brass and paint it, but I have a remaining bit of plexiglass I can use for that.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 22, 2021, 06:52:28 AM
The fuel bowl and its retaining hardware are ready. Man, that is small! Fortunately, the fuel bowl will be protected by the frame, so no fat finger will fiddle with it when the engine is installed.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: DeVille68 on July 22, 2021, 02:45:27 PM
wow! Fantastic!

Best regards,
Nicolas
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 23, 2021, 02:25:59 AM
Thanks Nicolas!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 29, 2021, 05:50:27 AM
After I did tiny parts with the fuel bowl, it was time to go to large parts: the intake and exhaust manifolds. I choose to begin with the exhaust parts; indeed, the intake manifold would be easier to do and would help to locate the exhaust with more precision. I began the job by drilling the threaded holes to attach the manifolds to the heads. Then, as I did not know how to proceed, I did the flanges for the exhaust tubes at the head. With that, I'm not very far...I wanted to begin the front tubes; did something just to realize that I'm going nowhere with that. Therefore, I decided to do the middle part (the picture from a real pair of manifolds will give the needed explanation). As my pictures were not good enough, I searched for exhaust manifolds with Google. I found very nice pictures from a company who is recasting those manifolds! Sure, they cost almost the price of a cheap new car, but they are there!
The pictures I found will help a bit, but even if I'm looking at them the whole day, the brass will not be magically shaped...Anyway, here is what I have up to now...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 31, 2021, 12:25:01 PM
Indeed, I'm not much further with the manifolds. I added a flange for the carburetor to both central parts and did some holes. As I did forget the formula to make parts by looking at the pictures, I had to do something concrete: attach the central manifold on a temporarily basis to go further. This is what I did the last few days; the central RH manifold is not attached to the engine using the holes attaching the block to the crankcase. I also installed a flange to the head. I "just" have to make two tubes joining the flange and the manifold...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Glen on August 01, 2021, 01:13:43 AM
I wish I had one tenth of your talent.  Beautiful work. 
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 01, 2021, 02:51:24 AM
Thanks Glen!
The talent as you are calling it did not came instantly: have a look at the frame I did many years ago...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 04, 2021, 08:29:12 AM
Those tiny "tubes" (I made them from a solid bar) were rather labor intensive because they had to be adjusted with precision. To complicate the task, they are not perpendicular to the heads, they are slightly directed towards the rear. Anyway, both sides are now ready at more or less the right position. Now, it's the time to make the front manifolds.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 07, 2021, 09:50:06 AM
The logical continuation was with the front manifold. The center one is a nice guide for the right position of the main tube. Both rear outlets near the center manifold were soft soldered on the main tube when it was assembled to the engine.
Now, I will do the LH front manifold.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Saturnin15 on August 07, 2021, 11:23:09 AM
Very impressive!  What is the length of the engine?  What is the scale?
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 07, 2021, 11:35:01 AM
Thanks! The scale is 1:12; the engine is 106 mm in length, or 4.2".
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 15, 2021, 01:26:31 PM
The rear manifold is not an easy one: there are indeed 3 parts merging in one place. I began the tube connected to the center manifold and realized that I cannot go further. Then, I did the tube going down and the flange where the exhaust tube will be attached. Then the idea: with that flange, I can attach the tube to a fixture screwed to the engine. From there, I will be able to continue with the smaller tube coming for the head and finally adapt the horizontal tube. All three elements have a different diameter, you can see on one picture from the repro manifolds that the tube going down is more or less flat to conform with the other parts.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 19, 2021, 01:12:47 PM
I expected difficulties with that rear manifold and I got them! When the lower tube was done, I did the tube for the last cylinder, going down towards what was already done. However, the diameter from both parts is not the same. I did a tail at the upper tube and adjusted it at the lower one. When I was satisfied, I could silver solder both elements. Then, I silver soldered the flange at the cylinder head to the upper tube. This operation was delicate: if the assembly is crooked, the tube will be pointed in the wrong direction. By chance, that soldering went well, even if I had to "massage" a bit the tubing assembly. Then the more delicate job: merge the horizontal tube with the vertical one. I did not remove too much metal at once, looking if the job was right. After a while, I came to the conclusion that the horizontal tube was too short. Not wanting to do another one, I cut it and put a spacer about 2.5 mm wide (.1"). When it was done, I had a better vision how both elements could merge, removing metal here and there until I was satisfied. The next question was: how to assemble both? with silver soldering or soft soldering? To silver solder it, I should create a jig; I could however soft solder both elements when they were assembled on the engine.
I now have to shape and solder the two last tubes for that RH manifold.
I noticed that there is an interference between the tube coming from the water pump and the exhaust manifold ( the second picture is showing it well). I will have to solve this issue before I can go to the other side which should take less time to build
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 23, 2021, 06:10:30 AM
By bending a bit the elbow at the last exhaust outlet, I could get the needed clearance. This will also help for the exhaust routing near the gear box. There is also not much space between the rear manifold and the water pump; according to the various pictures, the distance is really short.
With that issue solved, I could solder the remaining outlet tubes on the manifold. The LH rear manifold will be (I hope) easier to do!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: dadscad on August 23, 2021, 08:31:59 PM
It's amazing that they ran the water circuit and pump that close to the exhaust manifold. I would think that the radiant heat would add to the cooling system stress possibility causing overheating at times. Are there heat shields to come?

As usual, looks great!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 24, 2021, 02:34:26 AM
Thanks David!
Good observation about the exhaust and cooling tubes/water pump! Maybe the cooling capacity was large enough to take care of this inconvenient. On the pictures I have, there is no shield. I noticed also other bad conception; I will explain that when I'm doing the concerned parts.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Alex D. on August 24, 2021, 10:13:22 AM
The water tube and exhaust are so close you can't fit a pencil between them, and there is no heat shield there. The tube also passes through the crankcase to supply water to the other bank. I would think there would be a better way but who am I to question the engineers at Cadillac. They had it figured out.

Looks fantastic Roger!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 24, 2021, 11:47:32 AM
Thanks Alex! According to your statement, my pictures are not too bad! As I don't have a lot of experience with the cars/engine from that time, I suppose that it was their best possible solution.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 30, 2021, 12:21:16 PM
With the exhaust manifolds done, I had two possible paths to continue: the carbs or the intake manifolds. I choose the later possibility. The intake parts should be less complex to do; I will see...For the moment, I did the distribution boxes which are sitting on top of the center exhaust manifolds.
I did a small error when I did the holes for the attaching screws: they are a tad too much towards the exterior. Because of that, I could not do the countersunk holes large enough to allow the regular brass bolts I have, their heads are rather large. The stainless bolts have the ideal heads, but are way too short. Therefore, I silver soldered a threaded shaft (cut from screws) to the stainless steel bolts. Another alternative: mill the brass heads at the same dimensions than the stainless steel ones. Making the bolts longer was quicker done, this is why I choose this solution.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on September 09, 2021, 07:55:25 AM
Even if the intake manifold is simpler than the exhaust one, it took some time to complete the RH side. Now, I just have to do the other side!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: veesixteen on October 04, 2021, 01:46:18 PM
(Off topic): Gita, my sister Yvette and I were invited to lunch last week by Roger and Christine at their summer home in southern France (my younger sister happens to be a close neighbor). It was lovely to NOT "talk shop" with Roger, for once. We have been buddies since he started to restore his first Cadillac (a 1956 "Sedan de Ville"). The photos were taken in Chambésy, Switzerland, circa 1983 (Gita and I had just acquired a 1959 Coupe de Ville from Portland, OR).
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: veesixteen on October 04, 2021, 01:52:22 PM
(Replaced duplicate photo)

Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 05, 2021, 06:44:34 AM
Thanks Yann for those old pictures! Ah! souvenirs, souvenirs! Yes, we had a good time when you came to our vacation's house with Gita and Yvette (Yann's sister). I met the first time Yvette when I was invited to the GN in 2012. Since that time we are in contact and as she moved recently from Paris to the South of France, we are seeing us on a regular basis.
Of course, one part of our intensive discussion was devoted to the issue between Yann and the CLC, issue affecting distressingly Yann. What a shame.

The construction of the model resumed slowly after our return from France; the second intake manifold is done. I will now try to replicate the carburators, the "fun" will begin!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 12, 2021, 11:41:29 AM
Due to other tasks, the progress is slow on the scale model. I'm doing now the throttle bodies; the one pictured is not yet ready. There are some important details to add...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 15, 2021, 12:43:01 PM
This is what I intend to replicate. Wish me luck!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: dadscad on October 15, 2021, 08:36:33 PM
Holy Mackerel!.....Quite a challenge. Although, with your skill and eye for detail,  I have no doubt that you will get-er-done.

Thanks for sharing your project!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on October 15, 2021, 08:38:43 PM
I don't think there is much need to wish you luck, seeing everything you have done in the past, but you will really be pushing the envelope with these, BUT, you will get them done.

AND, they WILL be beautiful.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 16, 2021, 03:07:07 AM
Thanks for the support! I will probably have to make short cuts because some elements are so tiny at my scale. I have to begin with the lower part of the carbs because they will be used as a guide to attach a part or two at the throttle body.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 24, 2021, 01:08:48 PM
The next parts I did are the air intakes which are attached to the throttle body with two screws. That is way not finished, the float chambers must be attached to the air intakes.
As it can happens, I did a major error with the first set of air intakes. The diameter was too large, more than 1/2 mm. I wondered why I has so few space for the screws at the flange...Obviously, I took the dimension from another similar part. Silver soldered parts can be separated to save some elements, but in this case, I preferred to redo all elements because all was too much concentered.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 28, 2021, 10:10:57 AM
The next job was to do the float bowl; each one is constituted with 5 elements silver soldered. By looking at the drawings/pictures, both elements are not at the same level, therefore I had to make a tool allowing me to screw both elements on the tool for final soldering.
Both pictures are showing one assembled carb and the other one on the tool as well as both carbs.
There are still numerous small details which will be either silver or soft soldered.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 01, 2021, 06:40:43 AM
The main body from both carbs are ready. Some cleaning finishing will be necessary before paint. Now, I can continue the throttle bodies as the main bodies will be a guide to attach what's still missing on the throttle bodies.
Of course, I still will have to fabricate the external elements like metering pin, inlet etc.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 05, 2021, 12:26:00 PM
Finally, I could finish the "casting" from both carbs. As I wrote earlier, some minute details were skipped. One of the most difficult element to be added to the throttle bodies was the accelerator pump castings. Thanks to the main carb on which the position of the accelerator pump was well located, I could do a fixture with a long screw giving the location in the space for that small "casting". This is the first picture.
As the accelerator pump casting was threaded, it could be vertically located at the right place. Then, it was a matter to do a spacer, adjust it at the proper dimension and silver soldering it on the throttle body.
Now I can do the various element which will be screwed on the carbs.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 13, 2021, 11:21:35 AM
Carbs making is not very exciting. Plus the sale of one of my cars (related in the section "cars for sale") was a real "distraction" for more than one month. Anyway, I did some small additions like the accelerator pump, which is in my case just a rod as well as other small details you could maybe catch on the attached pictures. The float's cover is attached by fake screws.
I still have to make the butterfly shaft and levers.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Mike Baillargeon #15848 on November 13, 2021, 03:17:42 PM
Sweet mother of all that is holy!!.....WoW !  Just WoW!

Mike
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: carguyblack on November 13, 2021, 07:25:38 PM
My thoughts exactly! I can't see to even find my keys anymore these days and when I do find them, I can't pick them up. And then to think to creating this exact miniature out of nothing all by hand and mind is incomprehensible. Amazing ability! Thank you for sharing it with us all. Roger
Chuck
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on November 13, 2021, 10:29:04 PM
I can't find my keys either? Isn't it awful Chuck? Great work Roger! Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 14, 2021, 02:29:35 AM
Thanks for the comments and be careful with your keys! It happens from time to time that mines disappear too...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Big Fins on November 14, 2021, 03:46:18 AM
Following this thread is always amazing to me as I find drawing stick figures challenging.

The keys? I always know where they are. They represent fun in my Cadillacs.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on November 14, 2021, 01:46:26 PM
Guys,

If you keep mentioning keys, Roger just might be challenged to make a set, and the ignition switch complete with tumblers. He made working power windows for his model of a  Continental MKII....hope I can mention that brand
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: carguyblack on November 14, 2021, 02:25:45 PM
Very funny, Ralph!  But, I'll bet Roger is now going to loose some sleep wondering if maybe he should make the keys and tumbler now. And the dome lights with working switches.
We are a cruel bunch, aren't we?!
Chuck
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on November 14, 2021, 03:47:51 PM
Chuck,

I was not trolling anybody or anything. It really has operable power windows: https://www.modelmotorcars.com/roger-zimmermann-switzerland-continental-mark-ii-scale-model/

Just unbelievable!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: carguyblack on November 14, 2021, 06:17:20 PM
I was only trying to be humorous. My wife says I should quit trying!
Chuck
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on November 14, 2021, 08:11:32 PM
Chuck,

Completely understood...No harm,  no foul

Ralph
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 15, 2021, 03:07:02 AM
Oh...Keys and tumbler could be possible, but not with my equipment: to make very small parts, the equipment must be very precise and...heavy. Then, the practical side: can imagine how small the keys will be? About 4mm in length (0.16"); it would be very unpractical to grab them and try to insert them into the lock. No problem to misplace them and don't find them anymore!
The Toronado model I did had switches operated with the door. However, my system was not reliable at all and finally unusable.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 17, 2021, 10:31:46 AM
Finally the carbs are over. I skipped some details as well as all springs because they are so small it makes no sense to add more complication. The actuating lever is a strange one, its shape is dictated by the exhaust manifold. Nothing is moving on the carbs; shaft, accelerator pump lever, idle lever and actuating lever are all together soft soldered . Once the carbs are installed, almost no lever can be seen as they are facing the engine.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: carguyblack on November 17, 2021, 12:02:28 PM
Good day, Roger!
Were you ever a watch maker in your former life? Beautiful work and glad it's all being documented. No one would believe it otherwise!
Chuck
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 17, 2021, 12:24:48 PM
thanks Chuck!
No, I was not into that trade. But I like doing small things...Next to the large cars scale 1:1!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 18, 2021, 12:21:18 PM
Well, I'm not totally ready with the carbs: I tried to install one under the manifold assembly; it's almost mission impossible to turn the bolts as the space is very tight for one bolt. Maybe studs and nuts could help, but I prefer the following set-up: the carbs will be attached with a central screw from the exhaust manifold when the intake manifold is not yet installed, plus dummy bolts.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on November 18, 2021, 08:45:02 PM
Way to go.   It is not as if you are going to be worried about leaks.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 28, 2021, 09:50:59 AM
After the carbs, I had to decide with what to continue. The choice came on the tires. There are very nice reproduced tires for those antique cars with an intricate thread. Unfortunately, my equipment is totally inadequate to reproduce most of the treads. I saw that there is a Firestone with a zig-zag thread which will be easy to do as it's very similar to what I did on my other models.
Last week, I ordered a large piece of brass (about $ 40.00) to make the tire pattern. As you can see, the stock I got is really the maximum which can be handled with this machine. The outside diameter is 70 mm (2 3/4") and the weight 1.47 kg (3 1/4 pounds)! There will be hours removing material and almost so much waiting time as the electric motor cannot run for hours without cooling from time to time.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on November 28, 2021, 11:08:19 AM
Roger,

I'm interested to see how you make the zig-zag pattern in the mold or tread.......Keep the pics coming, please
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 28, 2021, 11:24:11 AM
Quote from: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on November 28, 2021, 11:08:19 AM
Roger,

I'm interested to see how you make the zig-zag pattern in the mold or tread.......Keep the pics coming, please
Thanks for your comments. Sure, I will show it! Let me first "chew" that big bit of brass!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 01, 2021, 06:48:49 AM
It took two afternoons to get the large piece of brass to the shape it's now. Too deep a pass or higher rotation speed caused strong vibrations so it was a balance between low speed and moderate cutting deep.
This rough element will be refined to look like a tire.
My deepest concern was about the dimensions. The original tire was 7.50-18; those tires are reproduced as I stated earlier, but their dimension are strange. I found nowhere the correct dimensions from the thirties and the tires produced now are like overinflated with an exaggerated width and overall diameter. Why tire manufacturers are doing that now? I have no answer. Anyway, I was the "victim" of those practices when I was building the Mark II: I took the dimensions from my own 8.20-15 tires installed on my '56 Biarritz and reproduced the tires according to the dimensions I recorded. As a result, I was unable to fit the spare wheel into the trunk; I had to cut away a good portion of the thread to install it. Sure, it could also be that I did some errors and the space allowed for the spare tire was too small.
Some years ago, a friend of mine discarded a restored spare wheel and the new tire installed over it because it could not fit the wheel well in his 1960 Corvette! Obviously, he got the same issue with an oversize tire. Strange.
As I noticed on several occasions, it's better to have parts a tad too small in scale model construction, I will do something similar with the tires: a compromise between the theoretical dimensions and the ones I saw on various advertisings.


Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 03, 2021, 10:52:03 AM
The rough work is done on the tire pattern. The face towards the rear of the lathe will be refined with an hand held tool. This is the best way to get a smooth and regular surface. Because of the white wall, the other side will be handled differently.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on December 03, 2021, 05:18:57 PM
G'day Roger,

You teach me something new every day.   Love the use of the rotation stop, making swapping of the machining piece beautiful.

Bruce. >:D

PS.   Looks like you need to make another pattern as this one would be ideal for drag slicks. ;) ;)
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 04, 2021, 06:57:31 AM
Bruce, this method is the sole one to have a constant true rotation, between two solid "pins" (there is certainly another expression in English): you can take away the part in process a number of time, it will always rotate the same way. If the part is held into a chuck, this is a different story. I know that it's a bit futile to quest for precision for a model which will hardly get rolling; this is my way of doing things. Plus the next operations to get a rubber tire are so imprecise that the final product will never turn completely true. At least the beginning is not compromised!
Like real tires, the beginning of mine is like a slick; the profile will come later!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 05, 2021, 08:20:47 AM
The rear of the tire is almost finished. As you can see, the shape was done with a cold chisel. When I did the picture, the lathe was not running because  both hands are needed to work correctly with that tool. I'm using the slowest RPMs; with the correct angle and position, the quantity of metal which can be removed is impressive.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 06, 2021, 11:30:15 AM
The tire pattern main element is ready. Most probably, by looking at the attached picture, you will not understand why the front of the tire has this strange shape. This is my way to add the large white wall: it will be a separate element pushed into the black rubber. I did the same with the Mark II's tires with one major exception: the tire's name will be on the white wall. For the Mark II, I did a negative mold and I could directly do the white elements. As I cannot engrave the tire's name into the brass, I will to make a positive form; with that done, a negative mold can be created. It's just one step more...
For the moment, the next step is to add the profile on the thread.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 09, 2021, 09:48:21 AM
To do the thread, I choose to fit 7 bands, even if the Firestone has 8. Why? Because I have to split my tire in the middle; the separation line will be on top of the middle band, which is easier to clean.
I cut 7 bands a bit longer than the circumference to be on the safe side. I did 3 assemblies by soft soldering twice two bands and one assembly with 3 band. This will shorten the machining a lot.
By looking at the original tire's thread, I saw that the zig-zag is not at 90°, but approximately at 120°. The milling tool on the picture as an angle of about 110°, good enough for my purpose.
As the head stock from the lathe was in the way, I had to remove it. Of course, I can only machine the brass which is secured with the jaws. After about 45mm, I have to position anew the assembly, taking care that the pitch is still correct.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 16, 2021, 11:46:10 AM
When I began the planning for the "mother" tire, I felt that the zig-zag thread was a good idea. Now, I hate it! The pitch was small: 1 mm. The tire without thread was not flat, but convex. At first, I soft soldered the middle band. As the brass piece is rather heavy, it took a long time to heat the brass to solder the band.  Once soldered, I had to remove the excess solder which was into the zig-zag, which took a long time. Then came the positioning of the next band. Ideally, the spikes should face the recess from the first band. As the milling was not creating a 100% exact pitch, I began to get in trouble, plus the fact that the next band is slightly shorter due to the shape of the tire. The first two bands positioned at each side from the first one were not too problematic but the next two were that bad that I did 3 pieces for each trying to have the correct figure. Finally, both at the outside of the tire have been soldered without looking too much at the other ones, except for the spacing.
The picture is showing the master tire after the last soldering operation; the plier on the right was used to rotate the tire during the soldering. I will now have to clean the assembly and trim the sides, with the hope that the thin bands will stay soldered.
In conclusion, not my best tire pattern.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on December 16, 2021, 01:24:40 PM
Hi Roger,

Looking at the male zig-zag ribs, I don't notice the miss alignment. Given the tread design selected, I can't see how anyone could get the pitch in perfect alignment. Bending the straight zig-zag strips was sure to distort them and alter the pitch along the outer circumference. Can you rig up a test to mold part of the tire and assess the tread as a finished, molded part?

By the way, what you've  done with the tread so far  is amazing.

Ralph
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 18, 2021, 10:10:31 AM
Well, Ralph, it's hard to notice the misalignment on a picture, even by looking at the tread without a magnifying glass! As the process to make a mold part is long, I will not do that, just continue the process.

Finally, the tread is not too bad. As for most every bias-ply tires, there are ribs on the side. When looking at the Firestone picture, the side ribs are in phase with the zig-zag from the tread. I decided that it would be foolish to attempt it; I'm just doing about 160 indentations without trying to match the zig-zag; there are about 215 at the outer circumference.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 19, 2021, 11:13:55 AM
The main job of the brass tire is over. As I wrote earlier, the manufacturer's name will be on the white part of the tire. I'm happy with the Good Year tires I have on my models, negligible wear, not noisy, no cracks and still supple after all those years. I will however change the manufacturer by using the Firestone name.
I had the foolish idea to make separate letters in brass; some would be easy (i, t, n); e, s would be more difficult. I began with the "F" just to see that the crisp angles are something I cannot do with the tools I have. An engraver could probably do them all, but it's a profession for itself with very specific tools I don't have.
I will therefore come back to the old method I used with success: paint.
I'll need now material to continue with the tires: silicone and some brass to do the mold for the white wall. I will not bother suppliers before the end of the year; I'll look next year for that missing material.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 21, 2021, 11:34:00 AM
Sometimes it's better to put something on side and continue with it later. It's now happening with the tires, I will resume this adventure later.
As there are still plenty things to do, I'm not "jobless"! I'm continuing with the distributor. There will be plenty to do...I began with the support. I wondered first why this support was so long; after a while I understood that a shorter support would interfere with the fan support. Fortunately, my dimension estimates/calculated are not too far away, there is just enough space between both supports.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 26, 2021, 06:25:43 AM
The ignition system from those engines were a bit different than the ones from the fifties-seventies. The distributor houses indeed two ignition systems, one for each bank; two ignition coils are also used. Once the ground setting was done with the pointer at the flywheel, it was also possible to advance or retard the timing in degrees thanks to a scale attached to the distributor support. A pointer, integrated to the distributor itself allowed to get the desired setting as shown on the first picture.
With 16 ignition wires, it was certainly easy to have a cable mess. To avoid it, an organizer was integrated at the base of the distributor. From there, the wires went into a tube and emerged from it at the desired location.
The organizer and the lower plate locking the distributor were chromed and assembled with screws or rivets. To avoid the proliferation of small parts, those items on the model are soft soldered to the main body; this assembly will be chromed and what originally was not chromed will be painted.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 01, 2022, 06:06:25 AM
The last tiny parts to the distributor were added yesterday, just at time for the year's end. It was however too late to make the update, but today is an appropriate day for that: it let time to evaporate the alcohol absorbed the evening before!
The distributor cap is attached to the body with two strong springs. My rendering of that is rather crude from very near, but by looking at a distance the illusion is almost perfect.
Like all distributor caps, the central plot is from the ignition coil's secondary circuit. On V-12 and V-16, there is a second plot for the other coil. Under the cap, there is a ring to conduct the voltage at the appropriate spark wire via a specific rotor.
On the real distributor, there is an oiling provision on the side for the cam. This is also replicated on "my" distributor, as well as both contacts on the side going to the primary circuit of the coils.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 14, 2022, 08:00:35 AM
At the end of the year, I did both ignition coils and their support. Those rather easy parts were finished when I began to look at restored cars. Something catch my eye: the ignition coils are not behind the fan, they are located at the the radiator!
The coils were wrongly installed on the fan support when the frame and engine came to the Netherland to be restored. As Johan did pictures from all the elements before he began the work, I was fooled by those pictures!
Those coil's supports will be removed and, in due time, the coils added to the radiator.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 16, 2022, 06:03:45 AM
When I don't know how to do a part or no envy about it, I do continue with something else until either I don't know with what to continue or the desire to have an element finished is haunting me!
The brushes covering bands for the generator and starter motor is a perfect example. It seems easy to do, but indeed I pushed back their fabrication. It took me a while to do the first one because I was not at all motivated. Finally, the task was not so bad: a band of brass 0.01mm thick, with one rolled end, then a small attaching latch soft soldered at the right place and voilà! At first, I intended to rivet the latch like the original parts but opted for the soldering. Less chance for a disaster doing so!
The second band came not so well as the first one, but still usable. Those parts will be chromed.
By pulling at the latch, the band can be removed like the original one.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Philou on January 16, 2022, 12:07:59 PM
Hy Roger

I'm here to follow this exciting construction...
We are entering 2022, which means that your V 16 is approaching 90 years old!
Be careful when you connect the ignition coils, it can shake a little...
Same for generator...

Friendships,

Philippe
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 16, 2022, 01:20:32 PM
Hi Philippe
No problem, I'm wearing thick gloves!
It's time for the apéro, santé!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 19, 2022, 11:43:21 AM
When the band for the generator was installed and the gen again on the engine, I realized that it was time to do the air intake duct. Therefore the generator was removed again, which requires the removal of the intake/exhaust manifolds and the water pump. As I still don't have water in the engine, there is no mess with the cooling fluid.
The original set up has provision to remove the water pump actuating shaft; my reproduction shaft does not have it.
That rather small part was not easy to do because nothing is flat to squeeze it in a vice; the fingers acted like a vice; some are still sore! The screen at the air intake is too coarse; I'm not sure if a finer mesh is available, I doubt it.
To really finish the generator and accessories, I milled the exhaust tube to shape the hexagon at the small end.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: dadscad on January 20, 2022, 05:20:26 PM
Hello Roger! Fantastic detail on the motor. You didn't mention what mesh you were considering for the intake screen except that it was too coarse. Would the brass or stainless screen in a coffee filter, be too coarse? I really enjoy watching the parts come together!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 21, 2022, 04:19:56 AM
Thanks for the comments, David! About the mesh: from another forum, I got a link to buy very fine mesh in stainless steel. I have no idea what for screen is in a coffee machine...The wife has one which is still functioning, I cannot begin to take it apart, she could be angry!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: dadscad on January 21, 2022, 05:45:20 PM
LOL! Yes, I bet she would be angry if you were to steal the filter from her coffee maker! I was thinking about a replacement #4 cone filter that was made with brass or stainless screen that you could cut pieces from. Steering clear from the one in your kitchen! My Cuisinart coffeemaker came with one.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 26, 2022, 12:19:51 PM
The coarse screen issue will be solved thanks to a member from the AACA forum. He ordered a sample (that company is not shipping to Switzerland) and will send it to me. The pitch is 200 wires/inch and the material is stainless steel.
Thanks also to Bruce and to Johan who offered a bit from the screen they have, but too coarse.

There are still element to be done to the engine. This time, I did the vacuum pump and the fitting for the oil lines. One is going to the oil filter and the other line to the oil pressure indicator.
The fake screws to the vacuum pump will be "installed" during the final assembly. The pump will be black, the crews will be painted silver. Indeed they should be chromed; I'm sure silver paint will be OK.
The studs at the fitting have not the same length on the picture. This will also be corrected during the final assembly.
Next step: the oil filter.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 30, 2022, 09:52:41 AM
As stated in my previous post, I intended to do the oil filter. Fine, but it is attached at the intermediate engine support! Due to the tight space between the calculated diameter of the filter and the frame, I have to do the engine supports first. As usual, it's a casting element and not in line with the hole into the frame...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 03, 2022, 11:22:38 AM
The rear engine supports are made with three element: the supports at the crankcase, another supports attached to the frame and a rubber bushing. I'm not sure why those engines (V8, V12 and V16) needed 3 sets of supports: at the front, at the rear of the engine and at the transmission's end. I see three possible reasons:
- the middle supports help reducing the torsion of the frame (on the V-16, the distance between the first cross member and the second one is huge)
- the second set avoid stress at the drivetrain by supporting it almost in the middle
- it was maybe a precious help when the transmission had to be removed for repair, the engine had not to be supported
In my case, I could do without that middle support set!
There were some difficulties to fabricate those tiny supports: from design, the hole in the frame is not aligned with the engine flange; I had to be creative to find the correct location of the support's end towards the frame. While doing that, I noticed that the RH support has more offset than the LH one. Why? Obviously, my simple equipment does not allow a great precision... 
I don't know exactly how this intermediate supports are installed in real life. Most probably, the ones attached to the frame are installed; then the other support is going through the hole from the support to be attached finally to the engine. To complete the set-up, the bushing is pushed from the outside and is secured with a large nut.
In my case, I have to attach the parts differently: the middle supports are screwed to the engine (because I cannot torque the screws when the engine is on the frame); the external supports are pushed on the internal one like shown on one picture; then the engine is installed on the frame with some rotating movements. When the engine is secured at the front crossmember and the rear, the external middle supports can be attached to the frame and the rubber bushing pushed in place. I will have to remember this curious method, the sole which is practical!
For practical reasons both heads were removed for this task.
Now I really can begin the oil filter. The holes for its support can be seen on the last picture.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 07, 2022, 06:51:44 AM
The original oil filter holder is made with sheet metal and its shape is too complicated for my taste, therefore I simplified a bit and soft welded the braces and the bolts to the supports. The oil canister was a rather simple job.
Yesterday, I had a funny adventure: a bit of brass was silver soldered to the holder's base. Usually, to clean the flux resulting from silver soldering, I'm putting for 1/2 hour the fresh soldered part into a glass jar containing vinegar. When finished, I'm purring the vinegar back into a bottle. Then, water is coming into the jar. After that, the water is dumped into the kitchen's sink taking care that the part(s) is staying into the jar. Yesterday, I had the impression that the tiny part went away with the water through my fingers. I saw nothing into the vinegar's bottle, nothing into the small glass jar. Where went that part? Most probably into the siphon trap...So, Christine and me began to remove the tubes under the sink, which is never easy. Next to the bad odor and accumulated dirt, we found nothing. Well, we thought, it was probably taken away with the water; it's time to do another part.
When I wanted to store away the glass jar, I saw that damned part, not at the bottom, but near the top! All that trouble for almost nothing, except clean tubes in the kitchen!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on February 07, 2022, 05:48:07 PM
Thankfully you didn't pour it down the Toilet, then flush. ;)

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 13, 2022, 07:23:55 AM
The number of accessories to this kind of engines is incredible... After the oil filter, it was time to do the construction holding the bracketry for the starter motor and the activation of the chokes. They are activated be a lever at each side of a long shaft supported by a tube. As drilling a hole of 1 mm in diameter into a piece about 30mm (1.2") long is not possible with my tools, I ordered a tube 1.5 OD/1.1 ID which will arrive next week. In between, the activating system for the starter motor kept me busy for some time. Thanks for the various pictures I have, I could evaluate the dimensions of all elements.
Probably most of you don't know that the starter motor is activated by a pedal pushed by the driver; the pedal is located almost in the middle of the car. This pedal is not yet done; dimension wise, it's also a guess as I forgot to clearly photography it.
As you can see on the first picture, the actuating lever is away from the motor's switch; on the second picture, it's pushing the round button. A spring will be added to hold back the actuating lever.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on February 14, 2022, 06:45:26 PM
I have heard that pedal called a Starterator.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 15, 2022, 05:37:50 AM
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on February 14, 2022, 06:45:26 PM
I have heard that pedal called a Starterator.

Interesting...As I assume that this system was more or less the norm at that time, curious nicknames were given sometimes.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 17, 2022, 10:35:42 AM
We continue with the engine's accessories. One which is not in plain view is a tube or conduit for the spark plug wires. This conduit has 2 studs on top of it to attach the long cover hiding most of the ignition system. Two ignition wires are emerging at each oval holes; the four last wires are exiting at the rear of the tube.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 23, 2022, 11:52:01 AM
The logical continuation was to do the valley's cover. This part is indeed just a styling element with the benefit to protect the spark plus and wiring from the dust or debris. Anyway, this part is a nice complement to the valve covers.
The original part is stamped, a process I cannot do. The various elements are soft soldered on the main plate. The curious shape at the rear was probably necessary for the first V-16 generation, but not for this one. With so few cars sold with that engine, some cost cutting was a necessity!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: carguyblack on February 23, 2022, 01:54:10 PM
Will you please post a video when you first start this thing up? With sound way up, too.  ;D
So exact yet unbelievably small. I've stopped trying to figure the process out and am just enjoying each step as you post. Thanks, Roger!
Chuck
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: 59-in-pieces on February 23, 2022, 09:44:34 PM
Roger,

I confess I don't check in on your progress that often, but I am never disappointed at your skills... and tenacity.

Look out Smithsonian, who knows if a treasure may some day be coming their way.

Have fun,
Steve B.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 25, 2022, 04:44:36 AM
Thanks Chuck and Steve for your comments!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 01, 2022, 11:54:15 AM
Even if this not the place to tell it, I have a deep concern about the situation in East Europe. How will that end? (this comment can be removed by a moderator; it had to come out.

The ordered material arrived, so I could finish the starter motor's lever which is inside the car. He is probably not the exact replica, but I'm satisfied with it. Next to that, I did the levers going to the throttle levers, the lever for the hand throttle and the one which will actuated by the gas pedal. All those elements are free to rotate but, as the throttle levers at the carbs are fixes, everything from gas pedal to carbs will be static.
I did also both knobs attaching the valley's cover. Unfortunately, these are too small; I cannot engrave the Cadillac emblem on them!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 05, 2022, 08:49:39 AM
No, the engine is not completely finished, I just need to do something else. As we are getting towards better outside temperatures, it's a good idea the continue with the tires. I ordered some silicone products for that. I also ordered a bit of brass stock to make the mold for the white walls. All should come next week.
Fortunately for my, I did pictures when I did the tires for the Avanti and Mark II, it's easier to remember "how". And I spared some "tools": the cut can for the first stage and the plexiglass which will be used to separate both half-molds. This later element was used for the Mark II tires; as the Cadillac tires have a larger diameter, I will adapt it for this new usage.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 07, 2022, 10:48:08 AM
Even if Switzerland is a small country, mail orders are taking time to arrive; the tires will begin later this week. In between, I finished what was still open: the rods going to the carbs. The rods themselves are not a big deal: a 0.8mm rod, bent more or less in the middle. But the small parts to attach the rods are taking time. As the carbs are not functional, I did a trunnion at each carb, soldered to the lever. The rods are just sliding through the trunnions, suppressing any length's adjustment. The pins at the other ends are not very large: the diameter is 0.8mm and a hole of 0.5mm was drilled for the cotter key (which will be just a rod). This does not let too much liberty, the hole must be in the middle!
The red paint on the LH rod is used to differentiate both rods as they don't have exactly the same shape.
There are also rods to operate the chokes. I will not do them now because the shaft to operate them is attached on the firewall. Maybe one day there will be one, maybe not...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 12, 2022, 12:25:12 PM
One key element was missing for the tires: the master for the white wall. As the manufacturer is on it, I could not just do a negative pattern: I cannot carve the letters for the name. Therefore, as with my other tires, I will do the name with paint. This time, I will write "Firestone". The shape of the characters is not easy; maybe I will have to come back with "Good Year"...
On the picture, the master is just finished; that bit of brass is expensive: about $ 35.00. I'll have first to write the characters with a pencil and then apply the paint with a thin brush.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on March 12, 2022, 04:10:52 PM
Great work as always Roger. Have you considered looking for some rubber O-rings that are the right size for the circular shape of your wheel? You could sand them partly flat OR on your lathe turn a groove for them in the brass to fit half way down. That way you would have a ready made curved looking sidewall that looks like it is inflated with air. Then paint. Perhaps see if there are white colored O-rings. That would save on painting. Just lettering would then have to be done. The sidewall of your tires would even feel like the real thing as you would have used rubber in the process. Just thinking out loud for you. :)  Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 13, 2022, 03:59:39 AM
Thanks! Your suggested method is a bit primitive for my taste! Could you do with your method a tire looking more or less the same as the one on the picture? This tire is from my previous model.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on March 13, 2022, 09:37:50 AM
That does look fantastic Roger. What process did you finally use? Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 13, 2022, 10:55:10 AM
You will see it here. In fact, it's a complex process; I had success with it for 3 scale models; I hope it will turn as well for this one! The process is no my design: it was explained in a book from Gerald Wingrove, a known model builder.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on March 13, 2022, 11:27:20 AM
We eagerly await reading about it here in a future report. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 15, 2022, 09:31:41 AM
The next step was to put the name and dimension on the white wall pattern. The "Firestone" script is not an easy one; my attempt to sketch the characters on the tire went bad. Fortunately, I found in the net a script which was the size I wanted. The print I did with that was not very sharp; anyway, I could cut the letters with a cutter. I glued them on the brass with paint; once dry, I scratched the excess paint.
The method for the dimension was different: I used thick paint and applied it on the brass with a thin brush. Once the paint dry, I scratched the excess paint to have a decent script. It's not perfect, but will be good enough on the rubber.
Now, I can do the negative mold for the white wall elements.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 18, 2022, 08:17:34 AM
Getting older does not mean getting wiser...
The facts: I decided to make a mold for the white wall. From the Avanti/Mark II projects, I still had some RTV material; I prepare a batch to pour on the pattern. Usually, after two hours, the product begins to be very viscous; after 12 hours, the RTV is set.
This time, after 2 hours there was no change at the viscosity. Same after 6 hours and again no difference after 12 hours. To me, it was obvious that the product was indeed too old. I heated a bit the whole; not too much because of the paint for the letters. There was a slight change at the viscosity so I let it in a corner because as the material is still sticking at the pattern, it could take away the scripts.
I began the preparation to pour the first half-mold from the tire. This time, I used a fresh product, mixing 9 grams harder to 180 grams RTV silicone. After creating some vacuum with my hand pump, the material was poured into the form. This operation creating again trapped air, the vacuum pump came again in action. The most vacuum I can generate with this pump is 14 to 15" HG. Enough for the purpose, but very tiring for the hands.
After one hour, I took the recipient out from the desiccator. After two hours, the viscosity did not change. I went to bed; the next morning, still no change. I was a bit upset and wanted to call the supplier. Just before that call, I had again a look at the syringe. The are two marks, 1 and 2 and 10 smaller lines in between. Suddenly, I saw my error: each mark is not 10 grams, but ONE gram! Therefore, the mix had just 1/10th of the necessary harder quantity! No wonder it cannot be set...
I have a similar problem with the tire pattern: there will be no paint on the surface, but the product in the uncured state is sticky. How can I remove the remaining material on the surface and, more important in the tread? I will put it on side for some weeks; maybe the small quantity of harder will be sufficient to set the RTV.
AS I'm blocked with my own stupidity, I ordered some material to do the springs. Of course, it's not available right now. Therefore, I will begin the shock absorbers...   
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on March 18, 2022, 03:39:50 PM
What a nuisance, and I can understand your problems.   Maybe it is time for new glasses? :o

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on March 18, 2022, 07:55:46 PM
Roger back in the Forensic Lab and also with my molding and casting company, mineral spirits were used to clean up un-cured silicone, unless damaging to the item you intend to remove the RTV from. ISO alcohol may also work on some surfaces without corrupting them as I recall and save some plastics. Have plenty of paper towels handy. You may need a brush to physically abrade the RTV out of the tread along with the mineral spirits. BTW you are not the first to miscalculate the amount of catalyst and end up with a sticky gooey mess. Been there done that, which is how I know mineral spirits work for clean up! We had one of those hand pumps and a bell jar with an appropriate viscous lid seal for vacuum pulling but eventually used higher vacuum systems when working with larger projects & thixotropic or clear products.

Images are of a Rotary Piston High Vacuum pump which despite being from the mid 1950s still pulls down to a meagre but impressive for its age, 10 microns on a so-called McLeod electronic gauge. The other shot shows a magnified image of a thixotropic RTV with and without degassing done by this vintage unit. Same thing Roger was accomplishing in his chamber.

Just curious, but Roger do you use pressure pot work for some casting jobs? Such work can incorporate items that many of us already have especially if spray paint work is done, (pressure spray tanks & air compressors). Applying what Roger has done should make it apparent just how useful these processes are for re-manufacturing missing bits of Cadillac jewelry, as an example. That said I am blown away by his work and look forward to seeing his future progress in this model making project and his detailed photos and descriptions.

Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 19, 2022, 12:00:12 PM
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on March 18, 2022, 03:39:50 PM
  Maybe it is time for new glasses?
No, Bruce: time for a new brain!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 19, 2022, 12:04:22 PM
Quote from: Lexi on March 18, 2022, 07:55:46 PM

Just curious, but Roger do you use pressure pot work for some casting jobs?
Clay, I'm not using pressure pot for my castings. I did a quick search for electric vacuum pumps; I may get something soon (maybe).
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 22, 2022, 11:35:38 AM
The tires are waiting for better days...and I began the shock absorbers. To give you an idea how they look like, I'm attaching two pictures from the real ones.
At first glance, the shape is easy; a good look at the shape is revealing some interesting details. It would be one thing to replicate the shape as well as I can, but I want also that they are absorbing the suspension's movements. I will be use the same sticky fluid/paste as I did on my telescopic shock absorbers. Here, I still don't know exactly how I will do that. Certainly not like the original design as compression and rebound had probably different rates. The medium I will use is usually slowly leaking at joints without gasket; I will have to find a method to keep the medium inside the bodies.
On one picture, you can see the end caps which will be soft soldered on the body. Can you imagine the shape of the wrench used to torque them on the body? I replicated the hexagon shape by punching the caps and soldering the inner side.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on March 22, 2022, 08:31:47 PM
Are the originals adjustable on the move?   And are you going to include the adjusting rods?

Thanks,

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 23, 2022, 04:02:40 AM
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on March 22, 2022, 08:31:47 PM
Are the originals adjustable on the move?   And are you going to include the adjusting rods?

Yes, Bruce: the shock absorbers were adjustable from the driver's seat. 3 or 4 settings I don't remember exactly. I will add the adjusting rods and levers, but without function.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Alex D. on March 23, 2022, 09:11:44 AM
"the shock absorbers were adjustable from the driver's seat. 3 or 4 settings I don't remember exactly"

The shock absorbers have a variable adjustment from the driver's seat via a lever to the left of the steering column. That lever is linked to a gauge that reads, 1to 5, free to firm.   

Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 23, 2022, 09:33:20 AM
Alex, thanks for the better explanation!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 09, 2022, 12:06:25 PM
There are some good and bad news. First the bad: despite 2 weeks without disturbing my bad mix, both preparations did not cure. Today, after one hour at 100°C, same result. I will have to bite the bullet and remove manually the sticky and almost liquid products.
The good news: while in France in our vacation house, I ordered an electric vacuum pump. The on-line shop is French, the pump came from Germany after 3 days and the pump is made in...China. Bad luck as I try not to support this country...The same search done in Switzerland gave no result...with the exception of that French store!
A quick test was done this afternoon: I can pull 25"Hg and the vacuum is slowly decreasing, like it was with the manual pump with which I could only get 15" Hg. It will be really a pleasant job to "cast" the various parts, but first I have to clean and maybe redo the marking on the white wall mold.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on April 09, 2022, 01:29:02 PM
Roger sorry to learn that your RTV did not cure. Good that you tried heat as I recall that can assist in cure times. You could try leaving a heat lamp on it, but probably won't help in this case. Maybe a heat gun would work without destroying the master piece underneath? Cured RTV can be quite heat resistant. Not sure if in this case it will force a cure though. Perhaps worth a shot as you pick away at removing the RTV.

Fantastic news on your  new vacuum pump. Make sure your glass "Bell Jar" is designed to withstand the pressure exerted your pump will draw. Remember that glass becomes quite sensitive to stress failure while under vacuum. Small imperfections, earlier damage and age, increase the chance of an implosion. This risk increases with rising vacuum levels. I remember that when up around the 29 inch mark I was always cautioned not to even bump the jar. I don't remember the specs on the various glass vacuum jars but at 25 inches I believe you are still well under the safe limits so you should be OK.

Attached is an image of an inexpensive head set magnifier with LEDs. Like the ones Dental Hygienists use but a lot cheaper. They have changeable lenses. I have a set and it works great. You could wear this and illuminate you RTV in the tire mold as you use a heat gun while you pick away at cleaning it out. It may help. They are available on Amazon as well as other retailers. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 10, 2022, 03:42:00 AM
Interesting tool...It could be a future addition!
The glass desiccator was manipulated with great care since 40 years...Mostly not in use as it comes in play only for the tires. It's a professional tool made in Germany. No idea what was the cost then; most probably not cheap. Anyway, I don't have to go to the maximum vacuum from the pump, I can stop the pump at any vacuum.
I began to remove the material from the white wall mold. The good news is that the scripts are still intact. I hope to get the uncured material without problem.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on April 10, 2022, 12:53:59 PM
More good news that clean up is going well. Those glasses locally cost me about $25 USD or less as I recall. They would be fantastic for you to use on your projects Roger.

On your new pump, you noted that 25 inches on a mechanical gauge is the output. When using my vacuum system to degas RTVs there comes a point where suddenly the mixed product will froth to about 5 times its height. This is standard operating practice that I have noticed when working with RTVs. The thixotropic nature of the RTV (centipoise) would impact this also.

Not sure if you have already used your new pump to "pull down" any moulding or casting chemistry, but you may or may not notice this frothing. I can't remember at what vacuum reading that it takes place. I seem to recall that it was at 25 inches or a little more. So your pump may be operating at that threshold. If it is, and you walk away from your chamber during pull down, you may wind up with a mess on your hands. As the mixture froths, or as they say "boils off", (not by heat but by vacuum), the RTV may very well rise to a level above the mould or mixing container that it is contained within. It is quite dramatic.

Again, I cannot remember at what vacuum level this occurs with typical RTVs, but it is something to consider. Your RTV will be seen to bubble and churn quite violently during this process, with increased vacuum causing an increased reaction. If you have poured your RTV as a casting medium into a mould to obtain positive cast for your tires, for example, and if the RTV rises in height due to the boiling off effect, your cast will be potentially ruined. You will also have to clean up the mess as it will over flow where you have poured it.

The answer to avoid this it to continually vent your chamber just prior to the material beginning to froth. The weight of the atmosphere will keep  "pushing it down", so to speak. This would have to be done several times, after which there is enough chemistry (such as air), removed from the mix to no longer cause the expansion to occur. This is a pain to do. The other option is to mix the RTV in a large enough vessel to contain all of the material when it froths, then after pull down & removal pour it into your mould being careful not to entrap ambient air. The "hand splash up" technique is used and works quite well.

Again, not sure if your pump will pull enough vacuum to cause this frothing with the materials you are using, but be mindful of this phenomenon when you first use it. You may experience it. I would hate read that you had another mess to clean up!  :)  Clay/Lexi

Edit 1: Forgot to mention that following product expansion, the frothing will stop when enough of the chemistry boils off. The product will then return to its original level. It is at that point that you know that de-gassing is complete and to turn off your system and vent to atmosphere.

Edit 2: Found this photo I took years ago of a small amount of clear resin in a 1 ounce plastic medicine cup, before and during out gassing. Notice the extreme height the froth obtained in the bottom picture, even though the mixing container is wider at the top. The mix will revert to its original level once the more volatile chemistry has been removed. If left in too long other chemistry that the mixture is dependent on to cure may also be expelled and cause improper cure.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 10, 2022, 01:11:41 PM
Thanks for your explanation. I'm aware of this situation; when doing the Mark II tires with my hand pump, I could increase the volume of the mixed RTV to a safe level, but I went not further than 15" Hg. With 25", I can imagine that the volume increase will be dramatic! This will be aggravated by the rapid vacuum increase, when I had maybe 5 minutes to manually get the 15" vacuum. This is an aspect I was not thinking about; therefore, thanks for the warning!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on April 10, 2022, 01:21:12 PM
Its good to know. Even at 15 you may see a lot of bubbling as the more volatile chemistry is expelled. I think it is only around 25 or a little higher that it can become quite violent with a lot of rising. In the edited post above I added two pictures of this. I can't recall what vacuum level it was at, probably 29.999 but think it starts before then. The amount of creep will depend on the volatility of the chemistry and its thixotropic nature and measurement in centipoise. Sounds like your system is in good hands. Keep us posted. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 10, 2022, 01:30:41 PM
It's impressive! I'm adding one picture from my own Mark II experiment; the increase is less dramatic than on your picture!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on April 10, 2022, 01:45:21 PM
Nice shot Roger. The higher the vacuum the more height and action is seen. My pump pulls down to near zero air so the boiling off is extreme. It looks like that victim in the horror movie the Blob, where you see all sorts of appendages and things trying to poke out of the solution, like a trapped animate object inside trying to get out. Water is the worst as I believe it is what the centipoise scale starts off at as a base, with a level of either 0 or 1. Did a mix of plaster once which is thicker but still it has lots of water. It splashed inside everywhere and made a thorough mess! Learned that lesson that day. Yes, I forgot to mention working time. A lot of the RTVs have a short set up time so as you indicated you will save a lot of time with your new pump. When we used a hand pump in the lab some RTVs would start setting up prior to the necessary pull down. So lots of air left inside and trapped once set. Great work as always and keep us posted. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 14, 2022, 12:06:31 PM
Finally, I could clean the mess I inadvertently created. The use of soap and nitro thinner removed the uncured material.
This time I did the mix right and used the electric pump to removed the trapped air. It's impressive to see how the volume is increasing when enough vacuum is applied! I did also an interesting observation: when I had 25" vacuum, I stopped the pump. Of course, the vacuum diminished slowly; I restarted the pump to get at about 25", and so on. I was surprised to see the small bubbles on the upper surface, but almost none burst. Finally, I let the motor run and there was much more action! It seems that the removal of air is more efficient when the pump is running for a long time. in the situation, the vacuum is about 27.5" Hg.
Anyway, the black rubber part is perfect, but not usable. I need to modify the brass part to have a dam at the outside diameter. With the actual mold, I could only do a partial white wall as the exterior wall is lower than the inner hub. I had a long time to figure what was wrong and how I have to modify the brass part. This is the next task!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on April 14, 2022, 01:07:21 PM
I believe that is so because the relationship between chamber gas removal and pump efficiency is logarithmic in nature.

So you have to make a dam for the tire mould though. Does that mean something permanent OR a temporary retainer wall? If temporary, what I found works extremely well are off set printing plates. They are very light weight aluminum flexible sheets not much thicker than paper. You can easily form them into shape and cut with scissors even. Best of all, virtually nothing sticks to them. So you could make a circular pattern for your tire and tape the seam & cover with vaseline or the product you use to effect your Bell jar lid seal with. This is a great product to make temporary dams. Plasticine also helps to seal at the base.

Attached is a photo of one of these plates in an industrial setting. Also attached are 2 shots of a repair I did on a 19th century marble bracket. A piece of the marble was missing so I used the printing plate metal, plus a wooden backer board to assist in keeping its form, in order to pour an industrial plaster end piece to effect the repair. Some hand finishing work was needed. This material may prove valuable to your Cadillac model project.

You may have to buy a box of them which you would never use all in your life time. You can even reuse them so they go a long way. They are light sensitive (actinic) but that is not a factor with us. Usually a clear plastic sheet must be peeled off one side prior to use. Again, not a factor for us. I have a box of the off set plates and you are welcome to some, at no cost for you Roger. Just pay for shipping. Might be cheaper that way to get what you need. I could cut a few in half, roll up and ship in a tube. I got mine from a photo printing lab who were throwing them out as they were outdated. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 15, 2022, 05:31:55 AM
Thanks for the offer, but I already have began to modify the pattern with a brass stock. I will be glued on the main body to avoid the loss of RTV if the joint is not perfect. The outside wall will be cardboard; with some way, the RTV does not stick to it.
Fortunately, the product I have has a long set time (about two hours) so there is plenty of time to have the mix without entrapped air.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on April 15, 2022, 09:32:25 AM
I did use cardboard retainer walls as well. Coated them with Vaseline to act as a release agent. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 15, 2022, 11:43:27 AM
Interesting to have a conversation with somebody knowing the matter, I appreciate!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on April 15, 2022, 04:17:35 PM
Yes, but I am not in your league with the metal lathe work. I do wood turning on a lathe but I must get a small machinists lathe for metal projects. Your work is excellent Roger.  The cardboard I used for some retainer walls was that board that draftsmen use, grey on one side and white on the other. Stands up well. Plasticine coated with vaseline also works great to plug holes and seal areas. Keep up the good work buddy! Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 17, 2022, 07:23:02 AM
Machining on simple machines is requiring some habit, like everything. Set-back can happen, even to me! Not a big deal on a simple part but when you are in the middle of a more complex part and an error is done, well, it's the time for some choose words!

The third tentative for the white wall's mold seems to be the good one. The first picture is showing the little quantity of material was mixed with the catalyst and black paste (the used product is transparent). When some vacuum was applied to the mix, the volume expanded and expanded. I had to stop the pump to avoid an overflow. After some pump's cycling, I could let it run for a longer time. After almost one hour, I opened the vacuum chamber and purred the RTV into the mold; I used simple cardboard to create the wall. Then, back into the vacuum chamber. There was still air trapped, you can see on the third picture the elevation of the mix. After 1 1/2 hour, I saw almost no bubbles and I let the mold out of the desiccator. After 2 hours, the mix began to set.
This morning, I took the cardboard away; some plasticine was used to close the interstices between cardboard and brass mold. The crowning of the day: the black rubber is removed from the brass part. Now I have a perfect mold for the white walls, one at the time.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 20, 2022, 05:50:20 AM
The first white wall is born. It's good looking but the tire's dimension is somewhat weak, depending to the lightning. Still 5 to do!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: carguyblack on April 20, 2022, 07:38:38 AM
Hey Roger,
You spelled "Firestone" wrong.
(bad joke, I know!)
So cool to watch what you are able to accomplish!
Chuck
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 20, 2022, 09:21:19 AM
Quote from: carguyblack on April 20, 2022, 07:38:38 AM

You spelled "Firestone" wrong.

Oh! All is possible! Chuck, thanks anyway!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on April 20, 2022, 12:29:13 PM
That looks better than the Cokers on my car. Good job Roger. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 22, 2022, 12:31:53 PM
Well, Clay, with all I read about Cokers, this brand will never be on my shopping list!

The white wall fabrication is going well, about one each day. A fourth is to be separated from the mold soon.
On the post #480, I was pouring white silicone into the mold. As you remember, it created a mess as I used not enough catalyst. I did this job again and, today, I removed the plasticine from the back. To avoid that the plasticine in going into the tire's grove, I used some masking tape to avoid it. I noticed that the tape was not sticking to the brass but did not thought more about that. The result: the silicone went between the tape and brass and filled up the groves! After painfully removed the undesired material and using wax, I poured the silicone into the other side. To tell the truth, I'm not at all confident that I will succeed. I will see that this week-end when the new material is completely cured.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 24, 2022, 06:55:06 AM
There are good days as well as bad ones, it's life. Today is the second category: yesterday, I did another white wall; thinking there was still enough wax on the mold to avoid issues. There was not, white wall destroyed, fortunately, the mold is not damaged by taking away the sticking white material.
I opened this morning the negative tire's molds. One half is so-so, the other one some tread was ripped away. The material was more or less bonded on the brass at the recess to hold the white wall. Usually RTV is not sticking to metal but this time it did. I have a possible explanation: when I cleaned the uncured RTV, some stayed on the brass and, generally, there was still a trace of that RTV on the whole brass surface. With the proper catalyst added, this uncured RTV acted as a bonding agent between brass and the fresh RTV.
The result: back to the starting line...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 27, 2022, 06:16:07 AM
It's better to put things aside until better days when it was a flop! As there are enough to do, this is just a temporary set-back. Last month, I began the shock absorbers; it was the right moment to continue with them. The design was more or less performed during the assembly of many parts all silver soldered; this bad method let me do some errors later corrected. As pictured today, they are far from finished, but I'm confident I will have working shock absorbers.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 01, 2022, 01:06:27 PM
With one white wall every second day, I have now seven pieces. As spares are always good, I intend to do another one. Then, I will have to begin again the tire itself...
In parallel to the white walls, I continued with the shock absorbers. I added some cosmetic details; before closing both ends with the plugs, I did the shafts on which the actuating arm will be attached. When that was done, I silver soldered the blade which should render the shock absorbers functional. By looking at the size of the blade, I doubt that the shock absorbers will be really effective. Well, it's a fun design, even as a failure! The possible movement is about 120°, which is largely enough.
There is a groove on the shaft: a very small O ring (I have some since many, many years) will be installed to prevent the loss of the Hivis. Of course, a closing plate will come at the back of the shock absorbers; some details are still to be added.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 08, 2022, 10:20:30 AM
Finally, the front shock absorbers are ready. It took a long time to add the latest details; maybe no one would have notice if skipped!
Technically, those shock are ready for the viscous product I have. However, I will ad it when the actuating arm is soldered to the hub. The screw you can see will be the locking system, of course flush with the hub. I assume that the hub and arm assembly was originally pressed on the shaft. As my shafts are inserted from the back, I had to find another solution. The back is now closed by a plate and four 0.6mm screws. A short bearing is integrated to that plate; it should prevent a binding situation for the shaft.
Maybe I will have to add a paper gasket to avoid that the viscous material is oozing.
I cannot finish the rear shock absorbers because I don't know the position of the actuating shaft at nominal position from the frame. The locking screw must be more or less at 90° from the arm and the relation between the actuating arm and inner blade must be right. I will finish the rear shocks when the suspension is done.
I deducted from my pictures the the actuating lever is horizontal for the front shock absorbers; therefore I could finish them.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 14, 2022, 08:50:47 AM
In parallel to the shock absorbers, I continued with the RTV product. All white walls are now done and, finally, I succeeded to have a decent pair of negative tire molds. Technically, I could directly cast the definitive tires with those molds, but it's too dangerous. If one of the negative mold is damaged, I can redo the whole scenario. At $55.00 for one kilo of the white RTV, I don't take the chance. Therefore, I will continue with my "regular" process.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 19, 2022, 07:26:29 AM
There is nothing now to report about the tires because in between I began something else: the front suspension. The shop manual is stating that the V-16 models have 10 leaves in the front; I did 10 leaves for each spring. As I could not buy spring steel the exact width I wanted, I had to make the material a bit narrower; I did that work in the  room where my cars and parts are stored. After drilling the holes for the central bolt (this bold is used to assemble all the leaves and to locate the axle on the springs), I installed the springs and axle on the frame. I discovered an error (this is not the first one nor the last one!) at the clips attaching the front axle: they are too short. I can hardly install some nuts, but this error is not that bad: with all the leaves, when I put a weight of 0.7 kg over the front axle, the springs are flexing about 1 mm! In the real life, a weight over more than 2000 pound would lower the front end by 1/2". Sure, those cars were not as comfortable as recent ones, but my springs are definitively too stiff, therefore I will remove some leaves until I'm satisfied.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on May 19, 2022, 08:43:04 AM
I can see the axle has been scraping the road surface by the missing paint.

But, seriously, you can leave all the spring leaves in the pack, but to allow the required flex, I would advise modifying the middle leaves to be more flexible by removing the centre of the leaves, leaving 1/8" on each side, ending the metal removal in from the ends, so that the covering leaf hides the metal removal.

Might only take 3 or 4 leaves to be modified to attain the requires springicity.

Bruce. >:D

PS.   Maybe I am overthinking this fix.   I remember seeing the grooves in the rear leaf springs on my '55 and '57 Chevs.   Maybe the Factory did this to give the cars a softer ride, as they did ride nice.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 19, 2022, 09:44:00 AM
Bruce, thanks for the suggestion! I have another solution. Right before, I removed 4 leaves; the suspension is still stiff but "volume" for the spring pack is too small. I will add flexible plastic leaves just for the look.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 21, 2022, 07:19:16 AM
As the negative molds were successfully done, I could cast the material into the recess to get the half positive molds. Right now, I don't know if this further step will be OK as many factors could lead to a disaster: the material can be uncured (it can happen), stick to the mold or air bubbles. I'm waiting another 24 hours to attempt the separation.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 22, 2022, 05:06:44 AM
SUCCESS! This morning, I separated the positive molds from the negative ones. At first, it was difficult to get the edges being separated; once I got that, the rest was easy. No bubble, all the material is well cured.
The next step: doing the definitive negative molds with a product like polyester. The product I used to do the negative molds was no more available at the store I'm going; a different product is no offered. Will it be so good as the previous one? There is a fundamental difference: the old product got cured with the addition of 3% hardener. This product is used by mixing tow parts from one element to one part of another one. Certainly easier to mix with the right proportion, but how are the characteristics of the cured product? I will have to make a test with a very small quantity.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 23, 2022, 07:22:15 AM
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on May 19, 2022, 08:43:04 AM
I can see the axle has been scraping the road surface by the missing paint.

But, seriously, you can leave all the spring leaves in the pack, but to allow the required flex, I would advise modifying the middle leaves to be more flexible by removing the centre of the leaves, leaving 1/8" on each side....

PS.   Maybe I am overthinking this fix.   I remember seeing the grooves in the rear leaf springs on my '55 and '57 Chevs.   Maybe the Factory did this to give the cars a softer ride, as they did ride nice.
Indeed, Bruce, I missed to answer correctly to your post.
About the scraped paint: yes, roads in Switzerland appear to be the worse in the world!
The idea to remove material from the middle of the leaves came also from somebody located in England! However, if I'm leaving 1/8" at each side, the leaves will be wider than before: they are now 4.7mm wide! (0.18")
I also saw leaves with the grooves; never thought about the purpose, but you may be right as the leaves must have some width to get some transverse stability.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 24, 2022, 06:07:04 AM
After having a too stiff front suspension, it was logical that the rear one would follow. This time, I did only 3 leaves per side and, indeed, the suspension is rather soft. However, the rear springs are much longer than the front ones! According to the specifications, there were 9 leaves at the rear; I will add some later.
As you can maybe see, the rear suspension is very unstable with shackles at the front and at the rear: the drive tube is the element which locate the rear axle longitudinally. As you can understand, some more work is needed to have a working suspension...
I will soon do a test with the new resin: I just read that it's dry to the touch after two days and completely cured after five days!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 25, 2022, 04:45:12 AM
Yesterday, I did a test with the new product by mixing two parts from the base with one part of the harder. Not too much: 6 grams! Just to see if this product will have the expected properties for the half molds. This morning, the mix is almost tack-free. One of the big advantages compared to the polyester resin: no smell!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 25, 2022, 01:24:35 PM
As I wanted to have a functioning rear suspension, I did the torque tube. Its length is critical because the wheelbase is managed by that tube. That element is not yet ready: I have to add the bracket for the strut rods. Without those struts, the rear axle is unstable and, in real life, the differential carrier could be bent by driving on a rough road.
I will also have to modify the "shoes" for the rear axle; I did its top surface parallel to the pinion; it must be at an angle to match the transmission's end without binding.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: carguyblack on May 26, 2022, 03:52:15 AM
Roger,
When you look at this most recent photo of the frame assembly you posted, do you even amaze yourself??!!
So cool.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 26, 2022, 03:59:52 AM
Well, Chuck, it's a nasty question! Put it my answer that way: most of the time, I like what I'm seeing!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: carguyblack on May 26, 2022, 04:23:45 AM
I know. Patting yourself on the back is not the best look but my point is that when you look back on all your hard work, it has to be somewhat satisfying to see this outstanding result. I'm always eagerly looking for your next post!
Chuck
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 30, 2022, 04:40:33 AM
With the addition of the struts, the torque tube is now complete. If you are looking at the picture, you'll see that the thread near the tube is much longer than the one towards the wheels. There is a reason for that. Which one?
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on May 30, 2022, 06:09:09 AM
So that you can install the rods without destroying the joint of the Torque Tube to the Diff.

You can slip the nuts right back, insert the other ends of the shafts into the housing, and then bring the nuts up to tighten?

Plus, in real life, assist in tuning the rear driveline for alignment.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 31, 2022, 02:45:29 AM
Good answer, Bruce! At first, I wanted to make the thread as short as possible, but I saw that I could not install the rods as the nuts must be screwed in before the installation.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on June 01, 2022, 07:37:28 AM
Before I go to the rear brakes (as the rear suspension is a necessity to do that), I wanted to continue with the tires. The next step is to create the negative molds with a suitable material. I began with the side walls, allowing enough space between the RTV molds and the exterior diameter. Then, as I did long ago, I attached the walls to a brass plate with masking tape.
Then I did a mix with resin and hardener and evacuated the trapped air. After the majority of the bubbles was gone, I poured the liquid into the molds; then the trouble began: as the mix is also as thin as water, the resin began to soften the glue from the tape and oozed out. I tried to do a dam with the plasticine; it was good for a few minutes, no more. To reduce the gap between the plate and the walls, I put some weight on the walls. This reduced somewhat the "flow", but not stopped it.
During almost the whole afternoon, I catch as much resin as possible and put it back where it belongs. When the resin began to get thicker, I could do something else.
The next morning, the resin was almost set and I began to remove as well as I could the masking tape and the oozed resin. One thing is sure: that product stick well on brass!
In one or two days, I will take the RTV molds away. For the moment, the product is still flexible. Remember: on the notice, the material is set after 15 days!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on June 03, 2022, 07:50:48 AM
Half success...This morning, I separated the molds from the brass plate. I noticed that the RTV went under the positive molds; this is the first time that it happened. I will have to remove some material from the negative mold's flange, otherwise the tires will be too wide and the width irregular.
There are some tiny bubbles which did not went away; I don't think this will be an issue with the tires.
I had to cut the center of the positive molds to remove them from the hardened resin; if I would do new half molds with the resin, I would have to do new positive molds because I need the center to locate the half molds during the tires "production".
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on June 05, 2022, 07:33:22 AM
Parallel to the tire saga, I'm continuing with the torque tube/rear brakes. There is a relay between the main actuating lever and the rear axle which is attached to the torque tube. Honestly, I don't know its purpose; there must be one...
Anyway, I finished both pieces just to discover that either the brackets screwed to the torque tube are too short or the levers are too long: if I had the rods going to the rear axle, they would touch the rods which is not good. By looking at my pictures, it seems that the levers are too long. However, I will redo the brackets, there is less work involved.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Johan Boltendal #158 on June 05, 2022, 07:52:41 AM
As far as I know the reason for these is the difference in height between the rear axle brake take up and the operating system on the chassis, just after the trans.
Besides that the height of the rear axle differs under load,  this relay takes this difference easier then straight rods,  length wise Johan
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on June 05, 2022, 11:19:58 AM
Johan, thanks for your explanation. I'm not convinced from it, but what I think is not important. Anyway, you have more experience in those cars than I have!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on June 07, 2022, 07:10:51 AM
Well, it seems that the explanation from Johan is the right one. I could do and install the various rods to the rear brakes. During the rear springs flexion, I expected a movement at the levers located to the rear axle, but there is none. Of course, my linkage may have some unwanted play, leading to the illusion. Anyway, the rear brakes are functioning when I'm pushing the brake pedal and I see that the hand brake lever will do the same when installed. As I have to put the frame on its back, I removed the hand brake lever because it's taller than the engine.
There is an inconvenient: the rods are not coming back to the release position because I skipped a spring located on the brake shield. I will have to add them.
As I don't have a die to cut the threads on the rods, which are 0.8 mm in diameter, I had to cut bolt's heads and silver solder the threaded part to the rods.
I calculated that the rods are able to withstand a force of up to 6.5 kg before they break. I will never go that far!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on June 07, 2022, 07:19:54 AM
Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on June 07, 2022, 07:10:51 AM......I calculated that the rods are able to withstand a force of up to 6.5 kg before they break. I will never go that far!   
Roger,

If you do break them, then you are driving the car simply too hard. ;)

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on June 09, 2022, 11:32:55 AM
The first tire is born. Unfortunately, I cannot use it because it's too wide! I had several issues when I did it and the RTV began to set when I put both halves together. I also noticed that there was material to remove at the half molds; not much, about 0.5 mm.
Today, I did another try. Some explanation are needed to understand the process.
The attached pictures are as follow:
First, I'm purring some transparent RTV into a cup, about 50 grams for one tire. Then, I'm mixing  a tinting product as transparent tires are silly. The hardener is then mixed. I'm using a small cup for that, but at the first tire, while removing the trapped air, I saw that the volume increased so much that I had to stop the vacuum pump. I transferred the mix into a larger container so an overflow did not happen. After about 15 minutes, all air is removed so I could purred the mix into the half molds. This operation is again entrapping  air so the half molds are back into the desiccator. Again, to avoid overflow, the half molds are not completely full.
After 10 minutes, both molds are taken out and more RTV is added as you can see on the next picture. Up to that, 3/4 hour elapsed. After one hour, the curing begin slowly. Then, I have to monitor when the mix will begin to set. Too early, the product will escape and create an air bubble; too late, the excess material cannot escape and the tire is too wide. After 1 hour and 15 minutes, I put both halves together and pressed them together to evacuate the excess material. This time, it could be that I was 3 minutes too late.
I added some weight on the assembly; I will open it tomorrow as 10 to 12 hours are needed for a complete setting.

Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on June 10, 2022, 12:02:07 PM
One of the first things I did this morning was to open the molds! That story in pictures:
the weight is off, the molds are ready to be separated. The light gray surfaces are an indication that there is already a slight separation between the mold and the RTV rubber.
With a screwdriver, I'm forcing the separation. If I had slicks there would be no problem but the thread is offering some resistance. This is the crucial question: can the mold withstand the effort?
One half is away, no issue. Now, by pushing and pulling, the tire is coming out of the mold.
Fortunately, this is a good tire. I cut the rubber which oozed between parting lines with a tool. The middle must also be cut away.
The tire is installed on a wheel. I noticed a difficulty with the white wall: there is a void between it and the tire. The reason is simple: all my white wall are too thick; when removing some material, the fit is excellent.
Now I can do the other tires, one each day (more or less...).
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on June 12, 2022, 01:29:43 PM
Now that I'm more or less confident with the tires "manufacturing", I would like to refresh the steps needed for that.
1. make a master tire with brass or something which can be machined
2. make half molds from the master tire; they are negative molds
3. make positive molds (or two half tires) from the negative molds
4. make negative molds with a resin which will be hard after curing
5. finally by using the negative resin molds, do the final tire (s)

I see an argument: why don't use the half molds described under the point two?
By using those RTV molds, it would be necessary to use separating wax for each tire. This is not a big deal, but if the wax is not going everywhere, the tire will get bonded with the mold, destructing it. The next argument with the way I'm doing the tires: by applying much pressure to the soft molds like shown with the attached picture, I doubt that the end result would be usable.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 18, 2022, 07:38:56 AM
Due to the GE and summer vacation, there was nothing to report. Now, I'm back and some progress was done: most tires are ready, I intend to do a last one in the next few days. With enough tires for the model, I had to do the knuckle arms to be able to install the front wheels. The shock absorbers are temporary installed too; I still have to do the actuating arms.
Now, I will do the tie rod ends and the tie rod because it's annoying when the front wheels are totally independent from each other...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 21, 2022, 12:30:00 PM
For two days, I intended to cast the last tire. After 8 hours, it was time to open the molds; the result was another perfect tire. I sanded the parting line, and, after cleaning, I noticed that the tread was damaged at three places. Like two or three other tires, the missing bit of rubber was at the rear half. Strange...Why nothing is missing at the front half? By looking at the workplace, I saw two tiny black things with teeth! Effectively, those small rubber elements could be placed into two holes. Why? The answer is at the hard mold: when I began to cast the positive flexible molds, some rubber went under the brass bands. This "characteristic" went 1 to 1 to the hard mold, and, at those places, the tread is not attached to the root of the tire. With rough movements like with sanding, the rubber got thorn.
As I could rescue two elements, the sole way to put them in place is to prepare some more rubber. No chance to have the right proportions for a tiny quantity, so I decided to eliminate as well as I could the flaws from the mold and do another tire which was done today. I will now be very careful by sanding the parting line...
Anyway, I could not resist to take a picture with the product under vacuum. The volume for the product is about 4.5 cm3. The available volume from both containers is about 60 cm3. As you can see, the level rose almost to the top of both containers...Incredible!
Now, I have 8 tires; each has some small failures...The really bad ones will be used as spare tires as they are covered with a nice cover, so the tire itself cannot be seen, + 2 tires, just in case.

I began the tie rod ends; for the moment I have 4 pivots. They are made with mild steel and a ball is silver soldered on one end.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on July 21, 2022, 02:12:24 PM
Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on June 12, 2022, 01:29:43 PMI see an argument: why don't use the half molds described under the point two?
By using those RTV molds, it would be necessary to use separating wax for each tire. This is not a big deal, but if the wax is not going everywhere, the tire will get bonded with the mold, destructing it.

Roger not sure if this would work in your situation but sometimes I used waxed paper as a separator. It allowed for separation of the 2 parts later. Other times Vaseline sometimes cut to make it flow more smoothly. Similar methods used when wood turning with 2 halves joined together by newsprint which had been sprayed with Elmer's adhesive. Holds together well to support turning but can be cracked open later. Probably not good for your tire project but perhaps the waxed paper idea may work? Keep up the great work. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 22, 2022, 03:05:31 AM
Clay, the waxed paper can only be used to separate two element which must not stick together which is not the case for the definitive tires.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 24, 2022, 11:24:59 AM
With the tire saga behind me, I continued with the tie rod ends. They are not done like modern ones: there is a cap; inside the cap there is a strong spring pushing at the lower pivot seat. I did the same, with the exception of the internal spring. By adjusting the cover with some precision, I'm getting a pivot without play and I can add some grease after the final paint.
The tie rod was one of the easiest parts to do: just a straight rod with threaded ends...As I don't have LH taps, I did RH threads at both ends, like my other models. The adjusting for the toe-in is just a bit different than in real life.
I noticed that the tie rod is lower than the front axle. Not very good...According to the drawing in the shop manual, the front axle should be a tad lower than the tie rod. I will bend the knuckle arms to reduce this inconvenient.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 08, 2022, 06:38:40 AM
With the shock absorber bodies done, it was time to link them to the suspension. This was done the last few days. The long screw at the arms is temporary. It must be that way till I'm ready to install the O-ring at the shaft. Once the arms are permanently attached to the arms, the O-ring cannot be installed or replaced.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Barry M Wheeler #2189 on August 09, 2022, 11:58:50 AM
Roger, I only check on your progress about every six months. But every time I look, I am astounded with the level of your craftmanship. That you can do all of this work is utterly fantastic and words cannot describe it.

As always, never give up, and thank you again for keeping us apprised of your progress. Best, Barry.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 10, 2022, 03:03:24 AM
Thanks Barry for the kind words!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 21, 2022, 07:36:08 AM
When a sub-system is finished, the question is always the same: and now, with what I do continue? This time, the answer was: gas tank. I have no dimensions from it, but enough picture to have a good estimation.
I did first a dummy tank with cardboard to see if it would find its place. After that, I did the profile with heavy stock. This allowed me to shape the ends as well as the baffles to be soldered inside the tank. Their purpose is not to avoid heavy movements from the fuel, but to avoid crushing the tank by lifting the model by the gas tank.
The real fuel tank has two creases at each end; I was not sure how I would replicate them. Then was the choice of the material: 0.1 or 0.2mm thick brass? By trying with waste material, I came to the conclusion that the 0.2mm was better suited for all the operations to be performed on the main parts from the tank.
I did first the creases with a 0.8 mm wire pushed on the brass, then rolling the plate to get the correct shape. The last picture is better explaining the task.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on August 21, 2022, 10:54:20 AM
Roger looks like you forgot to upload your photos. Don't see anything, at least at this end. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 21, 2022, 12:46:04 PM
Strange...When I checked if the pictures were there, I saw all three. Now they are gone...I'm trying again.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on August 21, 2022, 01:08:04 PM
There they are. That gas tank looks fantastic. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 25, 2022, 04:05:16 AM
The gas tank is now almost ready; the side plates were not flat but to simplify the stamping, I just soldered a convex smaller element. Missing are the tiny details: the three brackets to attach it to the frame, the draining plug and the filler tube which will not be easy to shape.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 29, 2022, 11:55:24 AM
Ah! Summertime...Not the best season to build scale models! Anyway, I added some details to the tank, like the draining plug and the fuel outlet. Then I began doing 3 attaching points to be soldered on the tank. I evaluated their dimensions according to the pictures I have from Johan; I'm sure they are similar to the real thing but inexact dimension wise. I added also fake rivets to the straps.
Two minor pieces must be added to the tank: the fuel sender and next to it, another round cover I have no idea about his function.

465 fuel tank rear.JPG

466 fuel tank front.JPG

467 fuel tank side.JPG 
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: carguyblack on August 29, 2022, 02:41:36 PM
Roger,
At the risk of swelling you head yet again, most artists couldn't even draw this stuff let alone produce it to scale from scratch in metal.  I stand in amazement!
Thanks for the continuing photos of your work in progress.
Chuck
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 30, 2022, 01:00:41 PM
Well, Chuck, with a cold shower everything is back to normal. Anyway, thanks for the comments!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on September 06, 2022, 01:13:36 PM
While doing the steering gear arm, I noticed "ears on the side. Suddenly, I found the reason for those ears. Do you have an idea about their purpose?

DSC01267.JPGDSC01268.JPG 
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on September 06, 2022, 10:07:03 PM
For bashing with a big hammer on one side, and holding an even bigger hammer as an anvil on the opposite side?

This action will shock the splines loose to allow removal, as there is no room for the normal Spreader to get behind the arm.

A case of shock and awe, the shock that one has to belt it so hard, and the awe that it came off so easily.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on September 07, 2022, 02:35:50 AM
Bruce, I don't understand exactly what you are writing, but it's also my opinion: to remove the arm, either with a tool or with hammers!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on September 07, 2022, 03:49:04 AM
Roger,

I understand exactly what I am writing.

But, holding the large hammer head, like a 7.5 Kilo sledge hammer against one lug with one hand, and then with a slightly lighter ball pein  (engineers hammer) in the other hand, belt the heck out of the other side lug, till the spline comes loose.

The secret is to loosen the nut, but not take it completely off just in case you miss with the little hammer, and smash against the thread.

Just the same as loosening up a tapered ball joint.   It is the shock that moves it, encouraging it to loosen its' grip on the splines.

Would you like a picture of what I am describing?   I have a '34 Hudson chassis here that I can do a mock-up.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on September 07, 2022, 12:54:19 PM
Not needed Bruce! I can visually see both hammers. Anyway, this is the best tool to work on anything!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Johan Boltendal #158 on September 08, 2022, 06:39:46 AM
Those ears are there to put a special puller on and not hammer or worse, hammer and heat the piece.
No need for these bush methodes,also these can lead to small hairline cracks, it will come off easy with the puller.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on September 09, 2022, 04:46:59 AM
Johan, thanks for the confirmation about the special puller!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 03, 2022, 06:27:18 AM
For different reasons, the steering gear is coming slowly as expected: first, I realized that the worm and sector must be a reverse set. Thanks to a scale model forum, I could order the appropriate set. This was just before our autumn vacation, so I expected to have the gears at my return. They were there, but I came back with Covid's!  Thanks to the vaccine, the illness was not too severe, but I was "out" for a good week.
Anyway, I could begin with the steering gear's partial body, the tube and shaft. I have now to make the sector shaft and its body and connect it to the main body.
The whole will be a tight fit as the exhaust tube is very near from it. I hope that there will be no conflict...
468 steering gear.JPG469 Steering gear.JPG 
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Chris Cummings on October 03, 2022, 05:25:32 PM
Wow!  Just wow!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 11, 2022, 05:10:22 AM
The steering box is ready and installed on the frame. As I expected, there is a tight fit between the steering column/box and the exhaust pipe; in due time, I will slightly modify the exhaust pipe to have a more comfortable space between both elements.
The various pictures are showing the involved parts; on the right, I installed a rough steering wheel hub. As you can see, there is also a complex part made with two flanges: the one to close the steering box and holding the pitman shaft and another one which is the attaching element from the unit to the frame.
When I was in Germany more than three years ago, I had the good inspiration to measure the steering tube length and the distance at its end to the frame. Those dimensions allowed me to do a temporary fixture for the steering box; with that, I could locate exactly the flange attached to the frame  before silver soldering it.
Unfortunately, that steering box will not be without play because the worm's bore is not exactly concentric (Made in USA is definitively not as precise as Made in Switzerland!). The result: some hard spots, but not at the right place and, in between, some play. As its indeed a static model, this unwanted characteristic is not that bad.
Now, I will do the connecting rod to have a functional steering. And then, the steering wheel to complete this chapter.

471 partly asembled.JPG472 steering gear.JPG473 steering gear on frame.JPG474 detail view.JPG    470 parts for steering gear.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on October 11, 2022, 06:05:24 AM
Sounds you need to fill the steering box with some very heavy grease. ;)  ;)

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Barry M Wheeler #2189 on October 12, 2022, 11:02:38 AM
Now if you could only get spark plugs and a carb that small, I bet it'd run!  BW.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 13, 2022, 02:46:08 AM
Quote from: Barry M Wheeler #2189 on October 12, 2022, 11:02:38 AMNow if you could only get spark plugs and a carb that small, I bet it'd run!  BW.
Well, then I also should ad pistons, crankshaft, and so on!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on October 13, 2022, 05:24:11 AM
Love to see the torque specs of the various parts.   ;)  ;)

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Barry M Wheeler #2189 on October 13, 2022, 10:39:42 PM
Some time ago, you let us know what other models you have made. Would you consider a picture or two to let us enjoy what the finished products have looked like? All you need do is place your Cadillac chassis in the foreground to adhere to the rule about "nothing but Cadillacs or LaSalles..."
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 14, 2022, 03:13:12 AM
OK, good suggestion with the frame in the foreground, I will do it the next few days!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 16, 2022, 12:06:34 PM
With a completed steering box, the model now is requesting a steering wheel. It's not the first I'm doing but this one has an annoying characteristic: on top of the rim, there are small ridges in addition to the usual rim's shaping at the underside. How to do that?
I did a tool to soft solder the rim to have the correct inside diameter. The I did the 60 slots with a milling tool. The idea is to silver solder tiny brass bits. With the proper trimming I may be able to replicate the shape. We'll see soon...
The attached pictures are showing an original steering wheel, machining the rim, the slots and the soldered brass bits.

475 machining the rim.JPG476 slots into rim.JPG477 rim with fins.JPG    Steering wheel.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 19, 2022, 06:24:40 AM
For the moment, the rim is ready. Maybe I will try to lower the ridges when the steering wheel will be assembled. On the other side, if they raise in proportion the same as the original ones, they may be unnoticed...

478 Rim.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 23, 2022, 06:12:23 AM
Once the rim was done, I trimmed the hub and prepare the spokes. They were silver soldered to the hub; the trimming coming after this operation.
Once the spokes were trimmed, I soft soldered the rim to them. I also added a small decor to the spokes, somewhat simplified compared to the original steering wheel.
Now, I can do the link between the steering box and the steering lever. I had to buy tap and die for that job; I had nothing as large (3 mm) in my tool store...

480 spokes ready.JPG481 assembled steering wheel.JPG  479 spokes added.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on October 23, 2022, 06:23:10 AM
Looking at that beautiful workmanship with the wheel, I am really jealous of the midget that would get to wheel your car as he, or she, will be the only ones to get to properly feel the beautiful workmanship.

I think I can say this for all, but, we are all in awe of your workmanship.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 23, 2022, 07:18:21 AM
Thanks Bruce! I hope you will not be upset with the following pictures. They were requested by Barry Wheeler but, instead having the Cadillac chassis in the front, he is just a tad behind the other models!
As our flat is rather small, we had to reorganize the dining room to have a decent surface and background.
I suppose all of you know those cars: 1963 Studebaker Avanti, 1966 Olds Toronado and 1956 Continental Mark II.
Many detail pictures can be seen here: https://forums.aaca.org/topic/145354-construction-of-a-continental-mark-ii-model-scale-112/page/87/#comments
There are 87 long pages, it takes some time to go through!

DSC02928.JPGDSC02930.JPGDSC02932.JPGDSC02933.JPGIMG_20221023_110053.jpgDSC02935.JPGIMG_20221023_110435.jpgDSC02940.JPG       
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 28, 2022, 10:39:47 AM
The steering system is basically finished. The last piece to be added was the steering connecting rod. A straight bar?
Oh no, it would be too easy! This bar or rod is vertically and horizontally curved. Looking from above the curve is obvious: to clear the way for the tire during a left turn. But why horizontally? I don't know. Maybe to clear the rear shackle from the front spring.
At both ends, I have a ball stud, two shoes, a spring and a treaded plug, however much simplified compared to the original set-up. This elaborate system is allowing to have no play at the joints during a normal effort. I still must add a dirt/grease shield over both joints.
As my assemblies are without splines, I had to add something to index the Pitman arm and steering wheel on their respective shafts; I did that with a 0.5 mm diameter rod inserted between hub and shaft. Totally not visible when assembled, but allowing a disassembly if needed.

482 steering connecting rod.JPG

 483 detail at rod.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 07, 2022, 06:56:09 AM
Recently, I was busy with the shock absorbers regulating system. It requires a lot of small parts, an annoying job. Of course, that system will be static on the model with most parts soft soldered to each other.
As some holes must be drilled on the frame, I will have to remove the steering system and the engine; maybe the suspension can stay undisturbed.
Some clevises have a small tube which is silver soldered; I had to find an unusual method to perform the job: a tube was turned on the lathe, then soldered and finally cut from the stock. The tube alone was so short that I found no other method to solder it with a relative precision.

485 soldering.JPG 484 shock absorbers control.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 09, 2022, 01:14:14 PM
While looking at details pictured from a real car, I saw a rod coming from the front relay down through the frame. At first I did not understand the reason for it, until I found a picture from one relay: the rod is indeed a tube with a grease nipple! As there is a shield between frame and engine, this pivot could not be greased without removing the shield. So, I did it to look like the real thing.
With some errors (the spring was on the wrong side), I installed the idler shaft with the levers. The provision to adjust the rods is done at those levers; as mine will just be static, the rods will be pushed into the clevises.
Then I finished the relays at the front. The inside lever on the left side has a leg more: it's for the rod coming from the dash to adjust the shock absorbers.
The next task will be to remove the shock absorbers, solder the actuating levers and fit the various rods.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 12, 2022, 12:29:31 PM
On the first picture (sometimes they appear in a different order), you can see the actuating lever attached to the shock absorber. On my project, it's soft soldered to the shock absorber. The next picture is showing the first rod from the shock absorber to the relay lever. Then, there is a view at the inside of the frame with an intermediate rod going from the relay lever to the idler lever which is shown on the next picture. The free "leg" at the relay lever is connected to the linkage going to the dashboard; that leg is not present on the RH relay.
A third rod finally go from the idler lever to the rear shock absorber's actuator. The idler shaft is connected with the other side; it is transmitting the input to the RH shock absorbers.
What I still have to do are the guides for the middle and rear rods. They are useful to prevent buckling from the rods when they are in mode "pushing".

490 operating lever.JPG
491 front rod.JPG
492 middle rod.JPG
493 at idle lever.JPG
494 rear rod.JPG     
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 15, 2022, 07:46:44 AM
The parts list is saying that there are six guides for the shock absorbers control. On the pictures I have from a V-16 frame, I see only four. The drawing in the shop manual has four, but this is the image from a V-8 frame, they are shorter.
Anyway, I did only four. As the system is just for the eyes, I will not run into troubles. To attach the guides to the frame, I'm using 0.5 mm (0.02") screws in stainless steel, with nuts in the same material. When I'm using brass nuts, I can solder them to the base, but stainless steel cannot be soft soldered. Installing the nuts on the screws is taking some time and good glasses!

495 Guide.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: dadscad on November 16, 2022, 05:57:05 PM
Roger, as before, I marvel at your enginuity and craftsmanship to replicate complex components. You truly have a gift. Thanks for sharing your project with us.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 17, 2022, 03:03:55 AM
Thanks David!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 26, 2022, 09:40:59 AM
Indeed, I wanted to finish the front brakes; as I'm missing a spring to guide the cables actuating the front brakes, I began something else: the exhaust system. It must not be routed at 100% like the original did; it just must be coherent.
I began with the mufflers; the original ones are very large with a diameter over 7 3/4" and just one each side. A funny system was used at the rear to improve the sound; I'll show it in due time.
The inner construction is shown on first picture; a thin piece of brass was rolled on this skeleton and soft soldered.
The front tube is not too difficult to do; after the 90° curve, it's almost straight. The other side will be more difficult as the tube must go between the brake booster and the frame and end almost at the same place as the RH one.
I see also that I will have to plan very carefully the final assembly: for the moment, I cannot torque the front clamp; there are too many obstacles to insert a tool. Probably I will have to build some wrenches for that task.

496 exhaust muffler.JPG497 RH front exhaust.JPG 
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: 57eldoking on November 26, 2022, 02:21:41 PM
I am glad to see you're as active as ever Roger, incredible work and level of detail as always!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 01, 2022, 01:21:08 PM
Thanks Henning!
Those two little curves around the brake booster gave me some trouble to have the end of tube at the right position. I did not bend the tube; I cut slices and silver soldered the cuts. The space between the tube and the frame is really tight. As the engine has limited movements (especially mine!), it should not be a problem here.
There is one support at the front of each muffler and one at the rear. I'm attaching a front support from a real frame because with so many rods and all parts the same color, it will be difficult to understand. There is one vertical plate, attached at the transversal's tubes for the brakes and one rod limiting the transversal movements from the muffler. Some rubber grommets are used to limit the noise transmission to the frame.
The rear muffler's support is from a different construction; this is a bracket attached to the third cross member, also with rubber grommets. As the threaded holes I did on the cross member are not at the right place, I had to improvise with the shape of the brackets. The next challenge will be the outlet tubes: if I'm replicating the tubes from the real frame, they will come in conflict with the rear axel's rods at the end of its travel. I will also have to improvise and shape the tubes to clear the rods.

498 Front exhaust.JPG
Front exhaust support2.JPG 499 rear muffler support.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 10, 2022, 12:53:18 PM
During my search for exhaust tube's pictures, I found a supplier offering those for the V-16 cars. At first, I was unsure if they were for this type of cars unless I saw that I was making an error with the tubes orientation: what I saw in front was indeed the outlet. The curves I saw are indeed necessary to clear the rear axle's rods.
Therefore, the frame I measured in Germany may have some interference with the home made exhaust system.
There were many slices cut through the tube to get the proper alignment. Sometimes, one or the other curve was exaggerated, I had to do other slices, open slightly the tube and insert some brass.
Finally, I was satisfied with the LH tube. I added the tuning chamber as it's called by Cadillac. Was that system efficient?
Another surprising fact: the mufflers are supported at the front and at the rear with small rubber grommets. However, at the cross member in front of the tank and at the last one, the tubes are attached directly to the corresponding brackets, without provision for thermal expansion...

Exhaust tubes.jpeg500 LH rear tube.JPG501 LH rear tube.JPG502 Tuning chamber.JPG   
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on December 10, 2022, 07:32:58 PM
What a lovely addition to any exhaust system.   A tuning chamber.

All it needs now is a sliding piece as in a Trombone with a driver-operated lever to create even more beautiful tunes.

This is truly a piece of art that I would say than very fer people in the world would have known about, had you not brought it to our attention.

Thanks Roger.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 11, 2022, 02:39:11 AM
Thanks Bruce!
I don't know if other brands used that tuning chamber. Anyway, if I'm understanding the parts list correctly, it was offered in 1932 to 1934 on some Cadillac models. I can imagine that it was quickly rusted through...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 21, 2022, 07:16:00 AM
As the exhaust is more or less finished (I should do the exhaust tips, but it's too early), I continued with the front brakes: I added the guide and retainer for the cable at the frame and the retainer and anchor for the cable at the wheels. I also added the rods on which the cables will be silver soldered.
As I'm still missing the case for the cable, I began the radiator. It's a huge construction with plenty stamped parts encasing the radiator core and the tanks. I will have plenty to do, especially with the honeycomb. I don't know how I will do it; the previous method with paper will not be possible here. As my working pace is rather slow, it will be for next year.

503 guide for cable.JPG504 ready to install the cable.JPG505 rod for front brake.JPG506 radiator base.JPG   
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 29, 2022, 11:30:16 AM
As the honeycomb is encased by the other parts, I tried to replicate that. Of course, this is not large: the pitch is 0.85 mm (0.033") or one side is 0.6 mm (0.024"). My idea was to shape bands 0.1 mm thick; I created a prototype tool. The results were so-so but good enough to make a long tool. I fed the brass bit by bit but the shaped material was cut with regularity. Obviously, my idea was not too good. Various ideas were studied, but most of them were beyond my possibilities.
Later I took again the proto tool and improved it a bit with the guide to position both jaws, like the long tool. Again, I had the same issue. I took another approach by cutting the top of the "teeth" with a file and tried again. This time the band stayed intact! To show what I intend to do, I soldered two elements together. Many, many more will be needed; I will be busy for some weeks!
I'm adding a picture from the real radiator to facilitate the understanding.

507 Tool.JPG508 new tool.JPG
509 prototype.JPG  DSC01292.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: gross707 on December 30, 2022, 06:27:10 AM
Wouldn't it be easier to just invent an industrial-sized shrinking machine and then use it on a real car?  I've been watching this thread for a while and am simply amazed with each new post.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 30, 2022, 08:39:58 AM
Well, Gerald, that would be amazing! Are you taking the task to create the machine?
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: David King (kz78hy) on December 30, 2022, 10:14:16 AM
Could you do the same thing with a rolling punch and die.  Basically a two wheels with gear teeth on them to match each other?  Offset the the interface whatever your metal thickness is?  With your lathe, the simple machine might not be too hard to create.  A small handle to crank the material through the wheels to from your corrugation.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 31, 2022, 10:00:13 AM
David, thanks for your comments. I was also thinking at this solution which is not so easy to do: my basic machine does not allow for a small pitch on the divider. By discussing this issue, a member from another forum had the same idea which he tried some time ago: the results were not at all good with brass not releasing from one or the other gear.
In between, I refined my method, filing the tips from the longer tool. That way, I can have a constant pitch. I also ordered in Australia (Nothing nearer!) a roll of brass 0.05 mm thick (0.002") which will arrive between February and March 2023...time to do the other parts from that monster of radiator!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 18, 2023, 07:43:07 AM
Some time ago, I began the upper water tank. As I unfortunately don't have pictures from the top of this part (the radiator strap is hiding most of it), it will be some guess in the making. I still have to do the thermostat housing at the front of the tank and probably two depressions to allow sufficient space between the tank and the bolts attaching the radiator's surround to the radiator.
The pictures I did in Germany are not entirely correct for the 1932 radiator: there was for me a major difference: till 1932, the radiator filling neck was on top of the surround, from 1933 the cap was under the hood. To spare on costs, the strap was the same for both years.
At the tank's rear, there are two holes: they are used to install the ignition coils. Interesting solution!

510 upper water tank.JPG511 upper water tank.JPG 
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 20, 2023, 04:58:10 AM
People who used an analog camera have probably had a "camera shutter release cable". What has this accessory to do with that scale model? The answer is easy: the inside cable, diameter 1 mm, ideal to run a small cable.
I had such an accessory; it was used for the emergency brake from my 3 other scale models. Unfortunately, I had no more, so I had to buy one. I could not find a used one, I bought a new one in England. Ordered on January 17, delivered on January 19. 5 minutes after I got it, it was already destroyed to get that cable which will be used as a gaining for the front brakes.
It was indeed a gamble: is the medium still the same as it was many years ago? Same diameter? Fortunately, yes!

Camera shutter release cable.JPGCable.JPG 
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 27, 2023, 12:04:23 PM
Sometimes, I have good ideas, but this time the realization is not following the theory. I bought 0.05 mm thick brass to make the cooling fins for the radiator. Making the wavy bands went finally well, but the soldering on the basis plate is not going very well. I had almost one week to do and solder about 25 bands and the result is deceiving. To complete the basis plate I would need about 130 more fins and this would be just one side of the core, the same should be done for the other side. With a nice look and good alignment of the bands, I would continue, but I'm realizing  that I cannot do better.
I'm putting the radiator on side; I hope to get a better idea soon...
Yes, 3-D printing would be a solution, but then it's a machine which is doing the work, too easy!

512 Tentative.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 30, 2023, 10:17:37 AM
During a discussion with a guy belonging to a scale model forum, he gave me some ideas, some utopic, some useful. The best idea was to use carboard and glue the bands on it with instant glue. Fortunately, the glue is not so instant (except on fingers) and very minor adjustments can be done. I tried that method with 3 bands. Obviously, the result is not too bad.
Another lesson with that project: sometime less is more. Explanation: I have two different tools to make the waves, a long one and a shorter one which is giving crisper angles: first the band is shaped into the long tool, then into the short one and again into the long tool. This time, I used only the long one and I have less issue with the pitch. Some waves are not exactly the same with the next ones, I had this issue by using both tools too.

 513 New tentative.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on January 30, 2023, 01:18:18 PM
Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on January 30, 2023, 10:17:37 AMDuring a discussion with a guy belonging to a scale model forum, he gave me some ideas, some utopic, some useful. The best idea was to use carboard and glue the bands on it with instant glue.

Hi Roger. The first thing I thought of when I heard that the glue bonds to fingers was "Super Glue". If memory serves that is chemically known as cyanoacrylate ester, (CA), one of at least 4 types of cyanoacrylate. There may be newer forms now. We used it in the lab as a fingerprint reagent. Perhaps the recepie for "Super Glue" has been modified, but we were always advised that it did not work as well when bonding paper products such as cardboard. Seem to recall that it did not polymerize as well in an acidic environment. In fact, we sometimes added acid to delay polymerization and prolong the CA fuming process we used when processing exhibits. Mention for what its worth, in case you may wish to explore other adhesives or a cyanoacrylate that is modified for use on wood, etc. Would not like to see your work come undone. Perhaps the newer formulations of such glues is more amenable to bonding such products. And yes, CA is great for bonding skin and also for its fumes to cause your eyes to tear (lacrimnator). Think it was first used during the Vietnam war to quickly close wounds that otherwise would require stitches, but not available on the battlefield. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 31, 2023, 08:56:12 AM
Let speak the chemist! Yes, I'm using now that super glue. When I tried to save the 3 bands from the above picture, I let the assembly into water. If some cardboard could be peeled away, the cardboard which was previously wet with that glue was hard enough to stick to the brass. That assembly landed in the waste!
Years ago, somebody told me that attaching small letters to my models would fail with the time and the name plate could fell of the model. He did not say when that will happen: 10 months, 10 years, 100 years? Those scripts are still on the models; I have to say that I don't wash them very often!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on January 31, 2023, 10:19:46 AM
Humidity is the catalyst or agent that initiates the polymerization of the CA. That is why it sticks your fingers together as it immediately reacts to the moisture in your skin. Ambient temperature is also a factor that impacts set up, with cooler temps slowing down the cure rate and higher temps speeding set up time. A quick moving hair dryer would probably help to shorten the curing. Too much heat and moisture can effect cured properties (weaken the bond). Probably not a factor with your project. The downside of CA is that it is brittle. The up side is the quick set up time. Love your attention to detail Roger. Great work. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 13, 2023, 10:26:59 AM
Finally, the front of the radiator is finished. I'm satisfied at 90%; fortunately, the shutter blades will hide most of the ungainly appearance. With time, I improved the making and gluing each strip (about 140); I hope that the back side (the one viewed facing the engine) will have more regularity.
The lower water tank is just there for the picture.

515 Ready.JPG

Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 01, 2023, 07:01:10 AM
Finally the other face is ready. Even if I was more careful, the end result is not much better than on the first face. I did the bands with the same process, however, some would have a pitch a tad different than the other ones. To make both parts, the bands I cut would represent a length of about 16 meters (52 feet). I had a rejection of about 20 to 25% because the width of the rejected bands were either too large or too small. I'm glad it's over!
What you see on the pictures is the pre-assembled core. I still have to add some elements like water inlets and outlet.

516 Radiator.JPG517 Radiator.JPG518 Radiator.JPG   
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: GBrown #8092 on March 01, 2023, 11:43:01 AM
No matter how many times I see your work, I remain in awe!

Glenn
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: carguyblack on March 01, 2023, 08:24:45 PM
Same here, Glenn.
Roger, just amazing observing your skill, patience and creativity.
Beautiful work!
Chuck
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 02, 2023, 07:48:14 AM
Thanks for the kind comments!
When the radiator will be installed on the frame, the flaws at the honeycomb will hardly be visible. A narrow shroud will also be added, plus both water hoses.

519 view from the engine.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: cadman59 on March 02, 2023, 08:13:28 AM
Absolutely fabulous!!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: billyoung on March 02, 2023, 08:37:28 AM
One of one worldwide I am sure. As an owner of Brass O scale 2 rail Steam Locomotive models I appreciate the brass fabrication as well as the exacting soldering technique's. Stupendous !
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 02, 2023, 09:19:40 AM
Thanks for the comments!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 06, 2023, 07:40:08 AM
The water inlets and outlet were added, as well as the attachment points for the shroud. When I first put the radiator on the frame, I saw that the fan was too large, exceeding the width of the radiator. I corrected that too.
We are not yet over with the radiator: I just did the attaching holes at the frame for the shutter. I don't know yet how I will do the 15 blades constituting that device; I'm wondering too if I will do it adjustable or if the blades will be soldered on the frame.

521 details added.JPG520 With frame for shuter.JPG 
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: cadman59 on March 06, 2023, 12:12:01 PM
Hi Roger,

I suppose you already pressure-tested it, making sure it won't leak  ;)

Just kidding of coarse, I admire your craftmanship.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 12, 2023, 01:15:58 PM
The past few days, I did the 15 blades for the shutter. I had to crate a special tool to have the more or less same profile at each blade.
In between, I decided to made the blade adjustable. For those not familiar with those old cars, the radiator has a thermostat actuating a lever connected to the blades, opening or closing them depending of the water temperature. I don't know if that system was very reliable because each blade has three pivots which cannot be lubed unless the radiator surround was removed. Maybe some lubrication was possible through the holes from the grille...
Once the blades were done, I have to solder a flange at each end, which is the easy job. I began with the flanges from the bottom as the ones from the top have a different shape.
How to drill the flanges to have some precision? Again, a new tool was constructed. It's a 3-parts tool: two parts are maintaining the blade in the same way; the third part is on top with a hole to guide the drill bit. That third part is attached with screws and pins to have hopefully the hole at the same place. The strange set-up was needed because I cannot drill a hole by resting on the blade
The next task is to do the flanges at the other end and modify the special tool.

522 Strange set-up.JPG523 Special tool.JPG524 Blades to be bored.JPG   

Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 19, 2023, 11:31:10 AM
I'm glad all 15 blades are finished without major accident. Then, it was time to assemble the whole package. I soldered pins on top of the shutter frame; on the bottom, I did a bar with the needed pins. The assembly requires steady hands and it can be done without too much drama. The lower bar with the pins is jamming lightly when installed, therefore no gluing or soldering is needed. I will have to ad retainers to the actuating bar on top because it disengages very easily from the blades; this will be done after final painting.
Due to minute dimension differences, the blades are not opening or closing as much as I expected, but this is really a minor detail. The actuating rod coming from the thermostat is still missing. Of course, I will not do the thermostat; however, there is a cover to hide it, it's not yet done.
I will do now the radiator's surround which allows the radiator to be firmly attached to the frame.

525 Open.JPG526 Partially closed.JPG527 Closed.JPG   
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: billyoung on March 19, 2023, 09:15:54 PM
I realize that you are only modeling the V16 Chassis, however if you were to choose a body to model I am curious which body style would be your favorite?
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 20, 2023, 04:15:49 AM
When I began that project, I wrote that I don't know if it will be a complete car's model. For now, I'm doing the frame and engine and, depending if I still can go further, I will ad fender, hood, grille and maybe the rest of a body. If I should  do a body, it will be a roadster.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: billyoung on March 20, 2023, 06:24:38 AM
Interesting, That would be my choice also. Some years ago there was a large scale model of a V16 Roadster built it sold new for around $500.00 foolishly I cheapend out and did not buy one and regret it as when one surfaces they trade for much more now.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Barry M Wheeler #2189 on March 20, 2023, 01:48:32 PM
Roger, I haven't looked at your work for some time. And as usual, seeing the finished product, words completely fail me.

Just wondering. Are you going to fasten the radiator to the frame with nuts and bolts as original???


I'm just kidding! Don't even think about it or you might actually try to do it.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Moody on March 20, 2023, 08:41:52 PM
Your work is outstanding!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 21, 2023, 04:06:40 AM
Thanks Barry and David!
Yes, the radiator assembly will be attached to the cross member with two nuts. Both studs are already silver soldered to the base of the radiator support. To install the nuts: just put the model upside down or on one side, that way it's easier!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Barry M Wheeler #2189 on March 21, 2023, 04:40:46 PM
Like I said, There are no words...

Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 26, 2023, 10:47:45 AM
Thanks Barry, I appreciate your comment!
To attach the radiator on the frame, I had to do the support. It has two tasks: as I wrote, to attach the radiator on the frame and it's the support also for the radiator surround.
I tried to replicate the attaching points for the surround; for the moment no holes are drilled because I have to find first suitable screws.
I wrote in one of my ports that there is a cap over the thermostat, but it's not correct. Therefore, I have to make a simplified set-up, just to attach the rod actuating the shutter.

528 Radiator support.JPG529 Radiator and support.JPG530 Radiator and support.JPG   
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 28, 2023, 01:19:53 PM
One of the last element added to the radiator is the thermostat system. Of course, there is just a movable lever and behind, nothing!
As the base with the lever is soft soldered to the "nut", I exceptionally glued the assembly to the radiator with a two components glue.
The last part to be added is the shroud.

531 Thermostat.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 18, 2023, 09:52:02 AM
After our Easter pause, I continued with the shroud. It's very narrow; I suppose it was efficient. Like the original, mine can be adjusted to keep the fan centered.

532 Shroud.JPG533 Radiator with shroud.JPG 
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: carguyblack on April 20, 2023, 12:26:00 PM
Wow, what a impressive bit of engineering back then and an even more impressive reproduction of that engineering today by a remarkable artist and craftsman. Excellent work, Roger!
I loved the shroud slide adjustment those Cadillac engineers anticipated the need for.
Thank you for documenting it so well.
Chuck
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 21, 2023, 03:05:04 AM
Thanks for your comments, Chuck!
That adjustable shroud was designed in case the fan must be adjusted to tighten the belt, requiring also that the shroud must be adjusted. In my case, I will do the belt to have the fan in the middle of his possible adjustment travel, but I have yet no idea if the radiator is at the right place. Therefore, all is possible up to some limits...
 
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 21, 2023, 08:24:12 AM
The front brakes were long overdue. Even if the radiator is not 100% finished, I did the final installation of the cable and casing. I intended to silver solder the tiny tube arresting the cable at the wheel but I opted for soft soldering. I was wise: I had to adjust the position of that tube to get the proper cable length. For that, I had to remove the wheel shield (one side at the time); at first, I did not recall how it was attached to the axle!
Finally, I have functioning brakes at all four wheel, a first to me, thanks the entirely mechanical actuating of the brakes.
Oh, I will not leave four black markings on the "street", but each wheel has some braking by pushing the pedal even when the front wheels are steered.

534 Front brakes.JPG535 at the wheel.JPG536 At the wheel.JPG537 at the frame.JPG   
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on April 21, 2023, 10:33:25 PM
Wo! Fantastic work Roger! Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 22, 2023, 06:13:02 AM
Thanks Clay!
Now, back more or less to the radiator: I have to ad the upper hoses. They are straight, so not a big deal? Wrong! they have a characteristic shape as you can see on the picture. I'm trying to replicate it.

Water hoses.jpg
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on April 23, 2023, 09:59:38 AM
Have been thinking about what I would do if I had to replicate those hoses. That is going to be some work! Please keep us posted on that. Looking forward to seeing the results. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 23, 2023, 10:46:57 AM
Well, the first step is done: the pattern or male mold. The challenge was to do the lines on the central section. After a disastrous try, I imagined another way to make the lines by turning a cutting tool 90° and moving it along the brass part. This time the result was good.
In fact, that mold is done in 3 separate parts because it was not possible to have a sharp beginning/ending of the lines with the ends attached.
The first picture is showing how I did the lines; the second one is the mold completed with an end plate. I will now play with various RTVs hoping to get two acceptable hoses.

538 Machining the pattern.JPG539 Pattern ready.JPG 
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Lexi on April 23, 2023, 12:51:11 PM
Very nice work Roger. I don't have a metal cutting lathe, so was wondering how I would work around that. The pattern you cut looks great. Clay/Lexi
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 28, 2023, 07:45:26 AM
Doing tires was easier than the water hoses! If the negative mold was unproblematic, the hose itself was hit and miss. To spray the separating wax, I had to split the negative mold, "open" it with fingers while spraying the product. After a while, the mold unrolled it, allowing to spray the wax on the total inner surface. After a while, the mold closed itself again but was swelled. I had to wait some more hours to slip the mold into a tube done to guide the inner core.
Finally, I have one almost perfect and two with various imperfections. As the good one was more as an accident, I decided that it's now enough.
By the way, the negative mold was usually destroyed by peeling it from the cast tube.
It seems that I don't have enough with silicone rubber: I will now do both rubber booths for the front brake. I will use for that the same Sylgard from Dow Corning I have since more than 40 years. I did the tires for the Toronado and the rest was kept in the refrigerator as this product is ideal for small elements. It can be heated at about 100°C and get cured in 5 minutes...

540 Water hoses.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Cadman-iac on April 28, 2023, 09:37:33 AM
Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on March 18, 2022, 08:17:34 AMGetting older does not mean getting wiser...
The facts: I decided to make a mold for the white wall. From the Avanti/Mark II projects, I still had some RTV material; I prepare a batch to pour on the pattern. Usually, after two hours, the product begins to be very viscous; after 12 hours, the RTV is set.
This time, after 2 hours there was no change at the viscosity. Same after 6 hours and again no difference after 12 hours. To me, it was obvious that the product was indeed too old. I heated a bit the whole; not too much because of the paint for the letters. There was a slight change at the viscosity so I let it in a corner because as the material is still sticking at the pattern, it could take away the scripts.
I began the preparation to pour the first half-mold from the tire. This time, I used a fresh product, mixing 9 grams harder to 180 grams RTV silicone. After creating some vacuum with my hand pump, the material was poured into the form. This operation creating again trapped air, the vacuum pump came again in action. The most vacuum I can generate with this pump is 14 to 15" HG. Enough for the purpose, but very tiring for the hands.
After one hour, I took the recipient out from the desiccator. After two hours, the viscosity did not change. I went to bed; the next morning, still no change. I was a bit upset and wanted to call the supplier. Just before that call, I had again a look at the syringe. The are two marks, 1 and 2 and 10 smaller lines in between. Suddenly, I saw my error: each mark is not 10 grams, but ONE gram! Therefore, the mix had just 1/10th of the necessary harder quantity! No wonder it cannot be set...
I have a similar problem with the tire pattern: there will be no paint on the surface, but the product in the uncured state is sticky. How can I remove the remaining material on the surface and, more important in the tread? I will put it on side for some weeks; maybe the small quantity of harder will be sufficient to set the RTV.
AS I'm blocked with my own stupidity, I ordered some material to do the springs. Of course, it's not available right now. Therefore, I will begin the shock absorbers...   

 Hey Roger,

 You mentioned using a hand vacuum pump for your tire making mold and wearing out your hands. Have you a vacuum pump for air conditioning?
 Whenever I need a reliable vacuum source, I use mine for that. The pump has a couple of different types of fittings, so I was able to find something that would allow me to connect a small hose to do what I need, usually testing a carburetor part or a vacuum diaphragm for A/C ducts.
 It's a lot easier on the hands than that manual pump is.

 Rick
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on April 28, 2023, 12:16:03 PM
Hi Rick
Yes, I used to have a hand vacuum pump for the rubber parts. However, if you go to the page 27, answer #531, you will see a nice vacuum pump. I did the tires from the Cadillac with this machine; with the age, one prefer to use a technical aid with less efforts!
I have to confess that I did not use it for the water hoses and some rejected tentative had some tiny pores at the outside surface.
I may use it to do the rubber boots for the brakes because I may use another RTV product.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 03, 2023, 11:38:44 AM
I began the rubber boots for the brakes and went up to the negative mold. Studently, I had enough and wanted to do something else. I just choose the draft tubes. I had many pictures from the upper halves, but few from the bottom. Anyway, enough to guess how they end. Most probably, there will be a discrepancy compared to the originals; who cares?
I had to remove the distributor to have access to some screws at the right. As the parts are clean, they got a light coat of primer.

541 Draft tubes.JPG542 Draft tubes.JPG 
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: carguyblack on May 03, 2023, 08:21:39 PM
Roger,
Hello from sunny America again! Wondering if since you live in Switzerland, have you ever created your own watch?? Your intricate work and all the hand tooling reminds me of that. I'm sure you could if you haven't yet tried that.
You are high up on that pedestal of mine, for sure.
Chuck
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: billyoung on May 03, 2023, 08:37:51 PM
What Toronado ?
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: bctexas on May 03, 2023, 09:58:06 PM
Quote from: billyoung on May 03, 2023, 08:37:51 PMWhat Toronado ?

I found it on this page:

http://craftsmanshipmuseum.com/2019/Zimmermann.htm
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 04, 2023, 04:27:33 AM
Ah! This was done a relative long time ago...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 08, 2023, 10:30:35 AM
For the moment, the rubber boots for the front brakes are a flop. As I wanted to cut corners, that's the result! I did the negative molds with silicone rubber and attempted to make the boots by using directly the rubber molds. Next to the alignment issue with two soft parts, the wax was probably used too sparingly and one boot's half stayed into the mold. Now, I'm taking another short cut by casting one half mold with hard resin. I hope I can remove the positive brass part from the hardened resin...
Another detail had to be added: the lower water tube going from the radiator to the water pump. From the myriad number of pictures I have, there is just one photo partly showing the tube. From the water pump, the tube is going between  the crankcase and the generator's air outlet, then by doing a large curve, the tube is going between the draft tube and the frame and finally up to the radiator. The first curve is making sense: the generator can be removed without disturbing the water circuit.
I had to rework the RH draft tube as it was on the way to the tube...
Like the draft tubes, I hope that the water tube is more or less approaching the reality!

543 Lower water tube.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 08, 2023, 10:35:03 AM
Quote from: carguyblack on May 03, 2023, 08:21:39 PMRoger,
Hello from sunny America again! Wondering if since you live in Switzerland, have you ever created your own watch?? Your intricate work and all the hand tooling reminds me of that. I'm sure you could if you haven't yet tried that.
You are high up on that pedestal of mine, for sure.
Chuck
Sorry Chuck, I did not respond to your remark. Doing a watch? No way! I don't have the equipment to do that and, frankly, this is a domain I'm not especially attracted...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 14, 2023, 08:55:39 AM
The brass part representing the outer surface from the boot was easily removed from the epoxy resin. Unfortunately, there were bubbles at the edge of the separation surface, rendering the part non usable. I did a new one; this time, I used my electric vacuum pump to avoid the issue. This time, I had no problem. After letting the resin for some days until it's hard, I was ready to do the second halve. I did the walls with plastiline as cardboard was not practical. The first half was less than the exact half from the brass part; as a consequence, the second part was over the middle of the embedded part. Will I be able to remove the brass part?
The very slow setting of the resin allowed me to remove the brass part easily: after two days, the resin is still flexible. On the picture four holes can be seen; they will used to insert pins to have both parts in the proper position.
While the resin was slowly getting set, I began with the hub caps. This is a simple part with one difficulty: the octagon at the center. This will make the mold more complicated to do. Till I'm finding a solution, I did the retaining rings which will be soldered on the hub caps; one (the seventh) is on the wheel.

544 molds.JPG545 Attaching flanges.JPG 
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on May 22, 2023, 04:36:47 AM
The molds for the brake's rubber boots went well. However, the first try to make one piece is so so: I had to cut it to remove it from the internal core. I'm wondering if the black product I have to ad at the transparent resin is not the reason why those parts are lacking some strength. I will try with the white material I have.
In between, I finished the ignition coils and I glued them to the radiator. The tiny screws are fake and therefore are just for the show.
Another detail: the caps for the oil filling at the heads are now done. Easy parts, except the 80 grooves at the outside diameter... The process was similar to the ribs for the water hoses.

546 ignition coils.JPG547 oil filler caps.JPG 
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on June 06, 2023, 03:26:07 AM
Some time ago, I began the hub caps. Small, just an octagon décor on the center...will be quickly done. For the dies, I recycled old wheel cover ones, therefore I had not too much brass waste. The issue with the octagon became such a difficulty I had to change my plan.
As you can see from the picture, the LH lower hub cap has two problems: the octagon is not centered and the brass is teared. The centering could be solved; with more play between the male and female dies I could avoid the tearing, but the lines would not be sharp. The new plan: the octagon will be full brass, silver soldered on the dish. Then, the excess material at the back will be milled away as the hub caps are a tight fit with the central nut at each wheel. This method will allow to have sharp lines compensating the extra work.

548 Hub caps.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 05, 2023, 05:37:12 AM
After the summer break, it was time to resume the hub caps story. As the center part was unpractical to stamp, I did separate octagons and silver soldered them to the cap. Thanks to the possibility to use a small quantity of paste, no rework was needed and the joints were perfect without voids. To achieve that, the backs of the octagons had to be hollow, following that way the shape of the caps. Once soldered, the shaft was milled away.
Now, I have to soft solder the attaching flanges to the caps.

549 hub caps in progress.JPG550 Hub caps almost ready.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Cadman-iac on July 05, 2023, 12:23:42 PM
 Are you sure you're not actually a jeweler in disguise? Those are impressive Roger. Nice job.

 Rick
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 05, 2023, 01:12:13 PM
No, I'm not a jeweler...Thanks for your comment!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 06, 2023, 12:33:15 PM
Finally, all hubcaps are more or less ready for plating. Some decals will be added later: the one in the middle and the black lines near the outside diameter. Maybe I will have to paint the lines because a flat decal will not go well on a curved surface...

551 Hub cap ready.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: cadman59 on July 06, 2023, 03:30:46 PM
 Hi Roger,

With Micro Set and Micro Sol from Microscale (you can google it) you can get perfect results with decals on convex or other complex surfaces.

Respect for your craftsmanship!

Feiko
Netherlands
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 07, 2023, 03:25:24 AM
Feiko, thanks to the tip. I got the same response from another forum, the world is small! I was not aware that such product was existing. Learning every day something new!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 09, 2023, 08:46:34 AM
Since I did the wheels for the model, I wondered how I could do the "beauty rings" which are installed on the rims. Turning from stock was not an option as the section is so small it cannot be held on jaws. Soldering on a support could be done, but for that  some turning would be anyway difficult. On day, I got the idea to do them with flat brass pressed between two dies. However, this system would produce a lot of waste. I came with the idea to use band shaped like a donut. To validate my idea, I did two tentative: one with a brass band 0.2mm thick and the other one with 0.3mm thick brass. Both were not easy to shape at the right diameter, but the thinner one was too delicate. The first prototype shown is with the thicker brass.

553 Beauty ring.JPG

The second picture is showing the bands ready to be shaped; one is half way finished.

552 for the beauty rings.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 12, 2023, 01:00:22 PM
The other five rings are now finished. The main issue was to bring the outside diameter as the rings are not at all stable. Polishing them for plating will not be easy either!
The two other rings missing on the picture are temporarily on the spare wheels. On the right of the picture: the tools to shape the rings; they were first used for the Mark II's wheel covers, then modified for the hub caps and finally for the rings.

554 Completed rings.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on July 30, 2023, 12:15:08 PM
With some details still missing, the project of the frame and engine is coming to its end. I'm searching what I still could do before trying to do some body parts like grille or fenders.
One thing is need to complete the engine: the air cleaners. Fortunately, Alex D. gave me the vital dimensions and I could begin the parts which are looking like that:

Air cleaner1.jpg

One detail is the main difficulty: the apertures for the air. On a flat part, I could try to do that, but on a cylinder? I found a solution which should create a good illusion. For the moment, I'm showing what I have, the explanation will come later, if all is going as planed!

DSC03191.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 01, 2023, 07:46:57 AM
We continue with the air cleaners: I soft soldered each ring separately because for the next operation, the rings must not move.
If I had the proper cutting tool I could have done the upper part very quickly; unfortunately for me, I'm not equipped to shape cutting tools. Either you have the needed machines or time!

556 Air cleaners.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Cadman-iac on August 01, 2023, 12:34:15 PM
  Roger,
 Your craftsmanship never ceases to amaze me. If you could only make enough of this model for everyone who admires it as much as I do, you would have enough work for 50 years or more.
 Beautiful work and car and I can't wait to see the finished result.
 Keep up the great work and best wishes on the completion of this project.

   Rick
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 03, 2023, 06:39:22 AM
Rick, thanks for the comments!
When I was planning the '66 Toronado, a guy wanted that I'm doing also a duplicate for him (this was more than 55 years ago). I think the deal went bad when I began the financial aspect. After all, I was glad that this idea never went further as some talks! It's still the same today: no twin model, no matter the offered price.

Once all the rings were soft soldered, I could mill the excess material

557 Machining.JPG

and soften the edges between the grooves. The illusion to have openings should be more or less right.

558 End result.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: cadman59 on August 03, 2023, 07:25:24 AM
Looking great!!

As allways.... 8)
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: dadscad on August 03, 2023, 10:52:59 AM
Stunning results! Looks great Roger.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 04, 2023, 02:55:00 AM
Thanks, Feiko and David!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 06, 2023, 06:30:46 AM
The air cleaners were finished by adding the cover on the top. As first glance, an easy part to turn on the lathe but...by better looking, there are fins! Way before the 1949 model, Cadillac had already fins. I suppose they were here for the look, nothing else, but complicated my task.
On the real car, the cover is attached to the body with two nuts; on the model, they are fake because all elements are either soft soldered or glued.

559 Finished air cleaners.JPG560 tops with fins.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 26, 2023, 12:39:09 PM
Between the many trouble I had with two 1956 Hydramatic transmissions, I found some time to begin the bumpers. Except with some basic dimensions Alex D. gave me, all is done with comparisons against some (hopefully) given dimensions. I bought recently over the net 1932 drawings from a V-16; this was a waste. The drawings are inexact, therefore not helpful at all.
The chromed bumpers are attached to the bars screwed to the frame. Those bars are made with spring steel; they can resist to some brutal encounters...On the other side, the rather thick brass I'm using will not have the same characteristic!
there is a curved bar which is missing now at the front; I'm letting it open until I may have some basic dimension to get the bumper itself right.
The rear bar is attached to the frame with a very nice casting which is acting also as a support for the luggage rack. Thanks to many pictures I have from this casting, I should get it right.

561 front bumper bar.JPG562 rear bumper bar.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on August 29, 2023, 05:59:18 AM
It took probably three more time to set the dimensions from the caps than to made them. That's what happens when I have no dimension to compare with what I want to do! Anyway, I think I got it more or less right. Those caps are setting the width of the luggage rack, but not its length. Maybe Alex D will chime in...
When I did the frame, I was not aware of many details and did things without to care too much. This lack of comprehension is biting me now: there are four treaded holes into the rear cross member; those holes are needed to attach the front hinges of the luggage rack. Those holes have two flaws: they should be for 0.8 mm screws and not 1 mm as I did. The second error: they are not parallel to the car's axis, this can be noticed by looking at the latest pictures. I will have to rework those four holes soon...

563 RH cap.JPG564 LH cap.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 14, 2023, 10:43:55 AM
Time is flying! After vacation, transmissions overhauling (Hydramatic 1956 and 1960), I found the time to continue with the front and rear bumpers. It may not be quite visible on the pictures, the metal is not flat but gently convex. The supports were done with spring steel, allowing for some flexibility. I have however the impression that those bumpers were more for the look as really solid; maybe I'm wrong.
The screw in the centers is there until the real parts are done.
In between, I had  a good contact with Paul Ayres who is restoring a 1933 convertible, the same body (V-8, V-12 and V-16 has the same bodies, only the front end is different) as I intend to begin once.
As those cars had a lot of wood in the body's construction, it would be fun to make the floor with the same material: easier, not so heavy but will create a lot of dust!

565 Front bumper.JPG566 Rear bumper.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 17, 2023, 06:13:40 AM
The last small part was added on both bumpers. They are now ready, but don't have yet the finish for plating.
I'm now beginning the rear luggage rack. Easy part? Not quite because both sides are visible. A stamping would be great, but the tooling too complex for just one piece. I will have to be creative...

567 Completed bumper.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 26, 2023, 07:09:00 AM
I began with the smaller part from the luggage rack as the larger one is more complex. I did the base on which four apertures were done. The, inserts were pushed into the apertures and soft soldered.
The inserts on the attached picture will be used for the next part.
A much thicker piece of brass could have been shaped to look good when extended, but without the details at the back.

 569 rack, top.png568 rack, back.png570 inserts.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 31, 2023, 09:13:33 AM
When the brain is disconnected, damages will happen! By doing the second part for the package tray, I was certainly dreaming: I assumed that the elongated holes have the same dimensions on both parts. When I wanted to begin the inner holes, I saw that something is not right, the space between the inner holes are too large. By looking at the various pictures I have from that package tray, I saw that the holes for the larger part are indeed wider and the space between them are the same on both parts. At first glance they all look the same, but not if measured.
This is one picture from an original tray:

Trunk Rack parts painted done   (2).JPG

and my both parts. I simulated the inner holes with black paint; the wider space between them is obvious.

571 bad part.JPG

One more part for the horror museum![
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Philou2 on October 31, 2023, 02:18:47 PM
Hi Roger,
can't you correct it by plugging the bad holes with tin and making others to suit your needs?
Well, if I understood the problem correctly, which is not certain...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 01, 2023, 03:55:22 AM
Philippe, thanks for your suggestion! Indeed, there is an insert into each hole (in fact, only 3, I stopped when I noticed my error). You are right, I could unsold the three inserts which are done, make the holes larger and solder new inserts. I'm afraid the base plate could not survive that operation because I had some difficulties while I was soldering the second insert. I decided to go back to the beginning. It just takes some time...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Philou2 on November 01, 2023, 06:55:47 AM
Ok, I understand, depending on the size of the part, a little too much heat and everything starts leaking... right?
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 01, 2023, 07:02:28 AM
In this case not leaking, but distorting...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 07, 2023, 05:38:22 AM
Finally, the larger grille from the rack is finished. I put a light coat of primer as raw brass is getting oxidized rather quickly.
Now, the fun will begin with the hinges and other small details.
The attached pictures are showing both sides from the grilles.

572 trunk rack.png573 trunk rack.png
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 17, 2023, 10:47:34 AM
The emblem for the luggage rack I'm doing now is a perfect example for a 3-D printer. I don't have one and never will, so I had to be creative to shape the various parts. I did first the ring which will be inserted into the rack, then the "V". As I did an error, I had to begin a second one...Then came the question: how can I do both numbers? I began with the "1", taking a bit brass much larger than the finish item. I adjusted that cube on the V by filing a groove and then by reducing the cube's dimension till the "1" emerged. Of course, it could not stand alone on the V because the base was small and irregular. It was then the turn for the "6" by using the same process. The holes for that number were drilled with a 0.4 mm bit and a very thin file removed the unneeded metal between the holes.
Fortunately, the "6" had a larger base and could be silver soldered on the "V". A fixture was made to temporarily attach the "1" to the "6" and was also silver soldered. Fortunately, both numbers are pointing in the right direction; the space between them is just a bit too wide.
Of course, the numbers are not protruding as much as on the pictures; they were that tall for ease of manutention. This will be corrected before the ring will be soldered.

574 emblem.JPG575 emblem.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on November 17, 2023, 06:46:52 PM
Roger, WOW! As usual simply astounding.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 18, 2023, 08:34:35 AM
Thanks Ralph!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 19, 2023, 10:17:04 AM
The luggage rack emblem is now ready. I'm not sure if I will be able to polish it more for plating. Due to the shape, it could be wise to let it plate with nickel instead of chrome. With the chrome, the outer ring will be shiny, but the chrome may not reach the second ring nor the sides of the numbers. The plater will tell me...
Now, I can continue with the various rack's hinges.

576 Emblem.JPG577 Emblem and rack.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 27, 2023, 04:50:57 AM
The luggage rack must now be attached to the frame. There are two supports attached to the frame (the fuel tank cover is indeed between the frame and the supports; it's not yet done) and an hinge is attached to the first smaller part of the rack. I have numerous pictures from both parts but all were shot in perspective, therefore it's difficult to calculate the dimensions. Those small pieces are also difficult to fabricate as, as castings, they are irregular in shape and can mostly only held with the fingers to be worked. And, when they are ready, they are slippery!
All the brackets from the rack are attached with oval heads; I went recently to a store selling watch's screws; I found none suitable for my needs, therefore I will have to make them. Fortunately, I found a 0.8mm die. Easy model? Nope!

578 Rack hinge.JPG579 Rack on frame.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on November 30, 2023, 08:01:32 AM
The first tread I tried to do with the new die was a flop: it snaps off during the work...I had to drill what was into the die and patiently could remove the remaining brass...The second try was better: I used a slightly small diameter and used lubricant.
This "success" allowed me to do both pivots for the rack hinges; in between, I had made the hinges which are connecting both halves from the luggage rack.
The next tricky job was to drill the holes into the rack elements for the hinges. Those parts are now assembled but with the wrong screws; I have to make them; the head is the oval one.
The next task will not be easy: doing the rod supporting the rear half from the rack. If the luggage rack should not be stored when not in use, there would be no problem. But, with the movement needed to store the rack, the rod's length and its pivoting point at the rack will be found with trial and an adjustable rod. When both variables are found, then I can do the definitive rods and drill the rear rack.
Confused by my explication? Thre will be soon pictures from that.

580 Hinge.JPG581 rack on frame.JPG582 almost ready.JPG583 When not in use.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 01, 2023, 05:18:59 AM
Getting the rod's length and its position on the rack was easier as expected. The pictures show how I did it. The pivot point is glued on the rack and could be moved if necessary; it appears that it's almost at the same position than on the real car, it must be just luck!
Now I can do the real parts.

584 Rack extended.JPG585 Stored rack.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on December 01, 2023, 06:07:29 AM
Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on December 01, 2023, 05:18:59 AMGetting the rod's length and its position on the rack was easier as expected. The pictures show how I did it. The pivot point is glued on the rack and could be moved if necessary; it appears that it's almost at the same position than on the real car, it must be just luck!
Now I can do the real parts. 

Well, of course it is.   You are building the same car, but a heck of a lot smaller.

Bruce. >:D

PS.   Don't sell yourself short.   What you are doing is marvelous, and a credit to your abilities.



Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 04, 2023, 11:10:59 AM
The luggage rack is structurally ready. There are however garnish elements which must be done: the molding around both grilles and the slats over the painted surface (to protect it). Plus some screws which are specific for that application with an oval head. Thanks to the 0.8 mm die I bought recently, I will be able to do them. Fortunately, the forces applied to the screws are not important: the finished diameter from the tread is about 0.73 mm; the nuts screwed on this smaller diameter is giving the feeling that the tread could be stripped easily. Its an understanding to say that I'm not really satisfied with this product.
Finally, I may use the treaded portion from the bolts I have and modify the 6-pan head to have the oval one. 

586 luggage rack.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on December 04, 2023, 07:26:30 PM
I realise that you know this, but, when tightening these screws, use a teeny-weenie screw driver, with grease on your fingers so you cannot overtighten.   Don't think I have ever seen a torque wrench small enough to cater for these tiny screws.

At least, they won't come undone as I think the only rough roads the car will be traversing is going to be one of carpet. ;)

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 05, 2023, 03:02:38 AM
Bruce, I have a torque wrench built into the fingers! It may happen, but I rarely break a screw by overtighten it, without grease on the tiny screwdriver.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: bobrich47 on December 05, 2023, 09:35:59 PM
Roger, you are an absolutely amazing craftsman! Your patience & attention to CORRECT details is applauded!
  I, & I'm sure many of us following your progress, would really enjoy watching you work. Will you make at least a short video of you working & the tools involved? The way you design & then fabricate some of these components would be very interesting to observe.  Thanks, Bob
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 07, 2023, 05:21:42 AM
Bob, thanks for your comments!
Unfortunately, there will be no video. I have no suitable camera and, if ever a video should be done, it could only be a very long process during the part's fabrication, but accelerated/shortened for the spectator like I had the opportunity to see. Therefore, the person who is doing the video should be with me hours and days just maybe for one or two parts. Would it be interesting? I don't think so: it would be boring! An example: for the garnish molding for the luggage rack, I have about 2 to 3 hours just for one part because there is a rolled bead I can only do with hammering until the shape is more or less satisfying. It would be OK to show the beginning for a few seconds, then the shaping of the bead to the correct dimension and finally the end result. All for maybe 20 seconds. But the operator of the camera should be there as long as the part is in progress! He (or she) would hate me!
If I would do the scale models for sale, it would be different: I would need a robust tooling like CNC machines, 3-D printer or whatever is needed to make the same parts several times for maybe a serie of 10 models. I could not do that in the same place I'm "working" now, I would need more space. But then, it would make sense for a video showing the various aspects of modeling.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: bobrich47 on December 07, 2023, 09:54:00 AM
Good morning Roger, I understand the logistics involved to film your work is not possible,  butI do think it would make a very interesting documentary for alot of us "car nuts".
 I wish I had your perseverance & attention to detail. Your work is amazing & I enjoy watching your progress.
 I know you began in mid 2019, what is your estimated date for completion, if you don't mind me asking?
 Thanks, Bob.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: 59-in-pieces on December 07, 2023, 11:17:33 AM
Roger,

I drop in from time to time to catch up on your progress.
The car progresses, but one factor remains the same, the exquisite perfection of your skills.

The fabrication of the movement of a fine Swiss watch has nothing on you.
But maybe then, it's genetic.

I trust you have pictured your own personal Makers Mark, and will place it proudly on the car upon its completion.

Bravo.

Have fun,
Steve B.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 07, 2023, 11:30:28 AM
Hi Bob!
Thanks for accepting my comments about not doing video(s). On the other side, you are right, it would be an interesting spectacle, when the video is showing intricate parts, like the wire wheels, or how I'm silver soldering delicate parts, for example. I'm also awage that I could do myself the videos by using the adequate support for the camera. I would maybe do it if I were 30 years younger!
I had nie years to complete the Mark II. The frame/engine for that model were way easier to do but the body was more complex than a car from the thirties.
The question is: Am I willing to finish that model? My motivation is no more what it was 10 years ago, so the completion date is really open. At first, the body itself was a "maybe". Now, I have the plan to do the convertible coupe. As  a club member has the same body (even if his car is a V-8), it will certainly help to have some specific dimensions. Working solely based on pictures is not easy at all!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 07, 2023, 11:33:34 AM
Quote from: 59-in-pieces on December 07, 2023, 11:17:33 AMBravo.

Thanks Steve!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Mike Baillargeon #15848 on December 07, 2023, 12:48:51 PM
Roger way back when,I think you said you took alot of pictures of somebody's V16 car.....

I've always wondered how you get the scale so perfect in the model?

Your pictures must have been from different angles and different distances....how do you translate those differences to the model?

As always the work your doing here is really unbelievable !

Mike

Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: bobrich47 on December 07, 2023, 02:39:33 PM
Roger, I understand completely. Please keep up your progress,  its fantastic!  I wish I was in Switzerland (beautiful country) & that I could see your work in person! Unfortunately I probably never will. 

One request, if I may? Would you consider a short video taken with your phone of a 360° view of work so far? Or maybe in the future? If not I understand.
  Thank you for your time!
  Take care, Bob.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 08, 2023, 05:59:47 AM
@ Bob: I cannot say all the time NO! I will do something early next year. I cannot promise that all parts already done will be installed during that video "session"; I will see what can be done, because damage's risk during assembly/disassembly is always something to take in consideration.

@mike: How can I explain it with my basic English? First: pictures are lying. As much as I can say, perspective pictures are for the show, but not as working document, but sometimes nice to have. So, whenever possible, I'm taking pictures perpendicular to the part or element which should be done. Then, I'm taking a minimum of major dimensions as it's impossible to measure all. With those elements, the minor dimensions can be calculated in comparison with the major one(s). However, there are always distortions on a picture. Am best, it's to take them as far away as possible, but it's not always possible and then, details are lost. So, it's a take and give and my calculations are not always exact. Again, the common sense prevails to make (maybe) the part right!
During the various supports for the luggage rack, I had no perpendicular pictures, therefore, what I did is more a guess than calculation.
At the end, viewers will not notice if something is not quite right until the real vehicle would be available for comparison. Then, there would be some Ah! Ah! moments (from me too)! However, chance is very slim that this will happen...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: bobrich47 on December 08, 2023, 10:12:00 AM
Good day Roger, I completely understand.  I just really enjoy your fine efforts.  I wish I had the actual car you're replicating & I lived near. I would gladly lend it to you to get all the measurements you'd need. 
Happy Holidays,  Bob.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 08, 2023, 11:07:35 AM
Quote from: bobrich47 on December 08, 2023, 10:12:00 AMI wish I had the actual car you're replicating & I lived near. I would gladly lend it to you to get all the measurements you'd need. 

Bob, it would be too easy! When doing the Mark II model, I had the luck to have 3 cars at 10 miles from home! That was an incredible help!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 10, 2023, 10:32:18 AM
If you are looking back at the V-16 luggage rack's picture I published some time ago, you'll notice "rub strips" on the grilles. How could I do them?
I calculated that the strips or moldings are 0.7 mm wide. If all is going the way I want, I could drill two holes @ 0.5 mm into a 0.7 mm rod, insert wires and solder them. Those two wires per molding have a dual purpose: I can use them for the tree which will go to the plater (when?) and provide a positive location for the strips on the grilles. Fine, but how to do that?
As the rods have to be flattened on one side. I milled a groove into a scrap bit of brass. Each rod was glued into the groove with contact cement. The bond was strong enough to rework the rod and then, that assembly went in a wise to drill the holes. For each hole, I had to verify if the position was right, because the hole has to be exactly in the middle of the rod. For each hole, I had to adjust the position by 0.02 or 0.03 mm (0.0008 to 0.001") as my machine is no very rigid. The rod was then removed using paint thinner.
Then, I silver soldered the pins and did the necessary rework at the rods.
Now, I have to drill the grilles for the moldings...

587 jig.JPG588 flattened rod.JPG589 drilling the holes.JPG590 Moldings are ready.JPG

Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 12, 2023, 04:48:52 AM
The grilles were drilled to accepts the strips or moldings. I noticed that on the larger grille, the middle strips are too short! Obviously, I did an error during the calculation. I will redo the two, because the look is not what it should be. Once plated, the strips will be partially glued to avoid lifting.
The exterior moldings are also installed (they will be chromed too); the two moldings finishing the square from both grilles will be glued. The original ones have tiny screws; this method is too impractical to be applied on the model.
592 luggage rack ready.JPG
591 luggage rack ready.JPG

As you can see, the grille's paint suffered a lot...
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: billyoung on December 14, 2023, 07:08:35 PM
I cannot tell scale from your photos. What length and width is your model in inches please ?
 
Sincerely, Bill Young
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 15, 2023, 12:05:50 PM
The scale is 1:12. the length is approximately 410 mm (16.15"); the width at the rear bumper is 150 mm (5.9"). If a body is coming on the frame, it will be 161 mm wide (6.4").
I'm adding a recent picture with a small calculator.

1932 V-16 Cadillac.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 19, 2023, 11:07:04 AM
When an element is finished, I have usually a hard time to decide "what next?". As you can see, most of the frame and engine are more or less ready with the exception of vacuum and fuel lines. Those elements will be done just before the final assembly because they are rather delicate.
Anyway, I found something to do: the mud pan shelfs or splatch plates. Two factors were the reason I delayed as much as possible their construction: the lack of information and the louvres. I had four pictures, the most informative is shown here. Finally, the real dimensions are not that important: they must fit the frame and engine.
I did first the plates with cardboard to see how to place the louvres. That was the easy part.
I never did louvres, so it was for me something new. I intended to do a simple tool which ended to be more elaborate by necessity. The first try was successful, so I could continue on the real parts. I had to do three different punches; I began with the short one.
The tool had to be modified when switching from the LH to the RH part, and of course, both elements from the tool had to be adapted for a longer punch. Finally, the result is not so bad, but not perfect. If I had to do a hood with louvres, my tool should be much more refined to have the exact same dimension between louvres. Fortunately, the hood has doors, so no more louvres on this model!
To have the frame upside down, I used something I did for the Mark II.
The splatch plates are not completely finished, some details must be added, like 4 larger louvres at the front.

splash plate.JPG593 supporting the frame.JPG594 Mud pan shelf.JPG595 Tool for louvres.JPG
 
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on December 25, 2023, 11:10:41 AM
Some details were added to the mud plates. The four front louvres could not be done with my basic tooling; after many tries, I ended by soft soldering the elements which are forming the louvres. The plates are attached to the frame at the front with four legs; they were added.
I tried to drill one hole on the frame to attach one plate; the "construction" was too instable; I had to cancel the idea before the drill broke or the hole at the wrong place. I have to make the holes for the plates before the engine is removed: there are two studs screwed into the crankcase; they are giving the location for the plates. I will make a frame with wood to put the frame on it upside-down; this stable construction will allow to drill the necessary holes.

596 Splatch plates.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 02, 2024, 07:29:06 AM
Indeed, there are still many details which are missing from the frame/engine, they will be done during the final assembly unless the parts must be chromed like most vacuum or fuel lines in the engine compartment, or the tubes between air cleaners and carbs. However, the enthusiasm to make them now is rather low...
The latest parts I found interesting were the exhaust tips. They were probably an accessory, the shape they have is well suited for the epoch, they would be out of place on a Tesla!
I had the impression that those tips were easy to do; they were not, mostly due to the transition between a tube and a triangular shape. Anyway, they are there, even installed on the chassis. I will have to shorten the exhaust tubes as the tips are ending way after the rear bumper.
For the moment, I don't see other interesting parts to do; I will have to begin the firewall but I don't have enough brass. And, of course, the local metal store is closed till next week!
Thanks to the pictures from Johan and Paul Ayres, I have time to do some planning...

597 Esxhaust tips.JPG598 Exhaust tips.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: 56Fleetwood on January 02, 2024, 10:46:34 AM
Hi Roger

I continue to be amazed at your workmanship and especially your ability to scale everything to perfection.

One question; how will you chrome some of the model parts? Is it the same process as for full size auto parts?
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 03, 2024, 03:26:24 AM
Thanks for your comments, Mike!
regarding plating: it's more or less the same than for full size parts: the company who is doing it is cleaning the parts (which I already polished) with various baths, then a very light coat of copper is plated, then chrome. As far as I know, there is no nickel in the process. The final coat may be thinner than for a real bumper as the requirements are different by nature between a scale model and a real car.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Alex D. on January 05, 2024, 07:30:52 AM
Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on January 03, 2024, 03:26:24 AMAs far as I know, there is no nickel in the process.

You have to have Nickel in the process. Chromium is basically a protective coating for the Nickel.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 05, 2024, 07:42:58 AM
Possible, I don't know. I'll ask the plater the next time I'm there.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on January 06, 2024, 01:29:06 AM
From what I understand the Chromium is a clear cover to allow the Nickel to shine through, forever and a day.   No Nickel, no shine.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 12, 2024, 10:21:06 AM
Is this the body for the model, missing a hole on the roof for the driver's head? No! It's just a tool: with that assembly upside down, I will be able to do the holes for the splash plates and other holes if needed.
As I like to drink good wines, sometimes I'm buying some in a wood case. That wood is ideal to begin the fire in the chimney from our vacation house or to do some strange constructions!

599 strange tool.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on January 12, 2024, 07:12:44 PM
So, Flow-through ventilation?

Love the camber of the roof in the growth circle.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 13, 2024, 03:12:06 AM
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on January 12, 2024, 07:12:44 PMLove the camber of the roof in the growth circle.
 
Bruce, this came really by "accident"!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on January 13, 2024, 11:55:09 AM
It was time to use the tool as designed: with a strange position for the drilling module, I could do the holes for the splash plates, one after the other. As the plates are located by a stud each at the crankcase, I needed the engine installed on the frame do drill the remaining holes. That set-up is usually dangerous for the drill bits: after doing the last hole, the head from the drill press rotated (most holes were not perpendicular) without warning. The drill bit broke in several pieces; I found only some!

600 Strange set-up.JPG601 Installed splash plates.JPG
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 13, 2024, 02:59:06 AM
Most probably my planning was not the best. I should begin the body, but I cannot: I ordered some 0.3 mm brass for the firewall; the material, coming from Germany, is probably lost, I will have to reorder. I asked for pictures and specific dimensions; I'll have to wait. I wanted to have the hood's length, it was quite an adventure to get it, but since yesterday, I have it.
This afternoon, I got the dimensions from the hood's venting doors (thanks Johan!). There are 14 pieces to do, I will be busy for a long time because I have also to design the hinges to open/close them. As the hood's sides are flat, I will do that too. The sole problem I have not yet solved is the method to do the hinges attaching the hood's sides to the upper panels.
The last few days, I searched what I could do and, indeed, I found some details.

The small raised element from the grille could be done, but the exterior only. The interior will be trimmed when that element is soldered to the grille surround, otherwise it will be too delicate.

Then I got the idea to do the bolts which, on the real car, are attaching the valve covers to the heads. I saw in my older drawings that the idea was to turn and mill fake screws which would be chrome plated. I changed my plan be running a tap and using M .8 stainless screws. I had to shorten them somewhat and polish the head.

Finally, I saw that the filler tube for the tank was not yet done. Thanks to Johan pictures, I could do something which are similar to the original. For the moment, the tube is too tall, it will be adjusted when the tank cover will be done. I had to modify the exhaust system to have the clearance; again, bad planning...

602 Grille surround.jpg603 Valve covers bolts.jpg604 Fuel filler.jpg
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 16, 2024, 11:14:38 AM
I could hate the designer who wanted 7 doors each side of the hood!
I began by doing a female and male die for the doors. The idea was to stamp the doors, but I rejected that idea: for that, the dies must be perfectly aligned, requiring an elaborate construction. Then, I was not sure if my thin female die would be strong enough to shape the brass at the corners. Finally, I shaped each door on the mal die (a small hammer is a wonderful tool!) and pushed the assembly through the female die to have some uniformity.
Then I did another male die and enlarged the female one to shape the flanges which will be soldered to the hood's sides. To press the flanges into the hood's side would be perfect, but here too, a complex set-up should be created. Therefore, the flanges will be soft soldered to the hood's sides.
On the first picture, there are 13 doors and 14 flanges, plus the dies at the bottom. The flanges are looking like grown doors because the holes are not yet done. They will be shaped once the flanges are soldered to ease the work.
The big question was the operation of the doors. From Johan, I have plenty of pictures from the doors, but the question was about the spring which should keep open or close each door. I did a construction on which a door was installed (in fact, the doors are just pushed into a "pocket", the spring is keeping them in place). I had difficulties to understand how that spring could to that job. At first, either the testing door would not stay open, then could not stay closed...I did another "hinge" (a stamped piece of brass, requiring several die changes) and did 3 holes at various positions. The spring was too strong, I had inconsistent results. Finally, I did a narrower and shorter spring and saw that when the open ends of the springs are installed into the hinge's middle hole, I have a wonderful door operation, staying either closed or open at will.
Now, I can continue my mass production!

605 doors and flanges.jpg606 test set-up.jpg
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Jason Edge on February 16, 2024, 02:38:32 PM
That is some incredible work. The details is mind-blowing.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 17, 2024, 06:29:13 AM
Thanks Jason!
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 26, 2024, 06:26:35 AM
The idea to make the hood's doors operative is opening a can of worms. Even if my test's door was successful, I'm not sure if all doors will open or close flawlessly.
After doing the doors and the flanges, I had to do the hinges: the ones soldered at the doors and the other ones attached to the hood. For both types, I had to create tools to have some uniformity among the parts.
This is what can be seen on the first picture, together with two corners on which the hood's hinges will be soldered. The profile from a male hinge is on the next picture; without tools to shape the parts, no one would be looking the same as the next.
As I finally got the 0.3mm brass, I did also the first firewall, the one which contributes to the structure of the body. On those cars (V-8, V-12 and V-16), there is a second firewall installed ahead from the first one. This was a method to isolate the passenger cell from heat and noise as well as having a clean surface to be seen when the hood was open.

607 Small parts.jpg608 hinge profile.jpg609 Firewall.jpg
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: billyoung on February 26, 2024, 06:33:28 AM
I remain, continually amazed.
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on February 28, 2024, 11:11:24 AM
Thanks Bill!

Each ventilation door from the hood has a garnish molding acting also has a handle to open the door (each door is to open or close individually).
I had a whole afternoon to imagine how I could do those tiny chromed parts. Then, how to attach them on the doors? To glue them is a no-go. I could also solder them on the doors and have the assembly plated; it was an option to have chromed doors, but I don't especially like it. Original parts are attached with two nuts; as I'm afraid that the part is too narrow at the front for a screw, I decided for a silver soldered pin which will also help to attach the parts to the tree for plating. One screw will be used at the rear of the part(s) as it's wider. Bolts with a diameter of 0.5 mm will be used.
To have some uniformity among the parts, I will do each needed operation on all parts at once and then go to the next task. As all operations will be manually done, there will be differences, but I hope they will be minor enough that they will not be noticed.
I'm attaching a picture from the original handle plus my prototype which will not be used unless I can drill the needed holes at the exact same position.


Volet.jpg610 molding.jpg
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 02, 2024, 12:16:51 PM
The name Cadillac is giving for those tiny parts: "Windbreak, hood panel ventilator port". 15 pieces are in work now; in case something goes bad with one, a spare is always welcome! The location pins are silver soldered, the threaded hole for the "bolt" is already done. As you can imagine, the hole is not very deep, about 0.8 mm or 0.03" for a screw diameter 0.5 mm (0.02").
What you see now is the side profile; the square element at the right is to maintain the part(s) in the vice for the next steps. It will be cut in due time.

611 moldings in work.jpg
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 06, 2024, 12:31:11 PM
The 15 windbreaks are more or less ready: I still have to file the sides to have a concave surface. As those parts were not good for the eyes, I will do something else in between.

612 windsplits.jpg
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 13, 2024, 04:08:47 AM
For the moment, the windsplits are unfinished as I wanted to do something larger: the hood's sides. I cut two brass pieces, somewhat larger as the finished parts because that can only be done when the radiator grille and cowl are ready. It will take some time to get that...

After making a flange at the top from both pieces, I began the holes for the ventilator doors. The positive die I used for the flanges is the right tool to get the proper dimension of the holes.
I had the ides to make a guide of wood to locate the flange for soldering; if the first flange was correctly soldered, the next flanges will use an aluminum guide because the high temperature was not necessarily good for the wood!

Now I can do the holes on the second hood's side...

613 hood side.jpg
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 14, 2024, 01:28:53 PM
The RH hood side panel is more or less ready. I still have to ad the pivot point for the spring at each aperture. When these details will be added, I will be ready to make the door's installation.
For the moment, I have to bring the LH hood side in the same shape.

614 hood side panel.jpg
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on March 20, 2024, 12:48:03 PM
When I began the hood's sides with the ventilation doors, I expected that that idea would come to a good end. I got some thinking how to do the anchor point for the spring and, when I'm unsure about something, I'm delaying and delaying (somebody in your country is champion for that) until I'm packing the thing and do it. Fortunately, it went rather well. Then, I soldered the hinge I had with the various holes to a door and inserted the assembly, together with the female hinge. I shortened a bit the spring I did before and tried...I had to do a deeper notch at the frame because it interfered with the spring's end.
The function is as I expected; the sole critic I could do is that the aperture could be more generous. For that I should redo all 14 male hinges; as the overheating from the model is questionable, I will let the things like they are.
Now, I can continue with the 13 other ventilation doors ...

615 back side, door closed.jpg616 back side, door open.jpg617 exterior side, door open.jpg
Title: Re: 1932 Cadillac V16 scale model
Post by: cadman59 on March 20, 2024, 03:14:44 PM
Looking great, as ever!!