Cadillac & LaSalle Club Discussion Forum

Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => Restoration Corner => Topic started by: JLB on May 18, 2022, 10:34:04 AM

Title: restoring a 1940 Series 90 V16 Town Car
Post by: JLB on May 18, 2022, 10:34:04 AM
Reader,

I am in the middle of restoring a 1940 Series 90 V16 Town Car. This is a Generation 2 V16 flat head engine. Not many of these cars remain and the restoration experiences are seldom shared. So I am summarizing the process and posting a series of articles, starting as Chapter 1 with a few more to follow.

You may ask about budget, that I consider to be a private discussion with the restoration shop. At shows when people ask me how much I paid for the car, I answer as a generalization. For example I reply that an old car like this will cost as much as a new Cadillac. To quote the famous collector, Jay Leno, he says similar to "if you buy a car for half a million, expect to spend that much making the car into what you want".

Fortunately I selected a restore with deep experience restoring Packards, Auburn Speedsters and a few Cadillacs. Off the top of his head he gives me a budget number reserving the right to revise that number as we explore the car and reminding me the project is time and materials. I am experienced enough to know that is the only way forward.

Chapter 1 is posted as an attached document with pictures.

I welcome your questions,

Jim LeBlanc
1940 Series 90 Town Car
Title: Re: V16 Restore - Chapter 1 of Many
Post by: Mike Baillargeon #15848 on May 18, 2022, 12:48:38 PM
I for one am looking forward to the chapters as they become available....

Wow, that is alot of motor there....

Hopefully the discoveries will be few and inexpensive....

Mike
Title: Re: V16 Restore - Chapter 1 of Many
Post by: JLB on May 18, 2022, 04:00:11 PM
Mike,

Seems the discoveries are still coming and this is an expensive hobby !

Best Regards,

Jim LeBlanc
Title: V16 Restore - Chapter 2 of Many
Post by: JLB on May 18, 2022, 04:15:43 PM
Reader,

I have created the next chapter in the V16 restore. This chapter focuses on engine block crack discovery and repair. Yes discovery can be painful. It was. Yet be warned there is more to discover about this car. The over 700 hundred pound engine is part, not all the surprises.

Posting a PDF document and a movie. I have never before posted a movie, so I hope this works.

Enjoy the Ride,

Jim LeBlanc
1940 Series 90 Town Car
Title: Re: V16 Restore - Chapter 1 of Many
Post by: Cadillac Jack 82 on May 18, 2022, 05:23:55 PM

I'm going to love this thread.  I cannot believe someone believed bolting metal to the water jacket would fix the issue.  If my memory serves me correctly the only repair that actually works in this instance is stitching.
Title: Re: V16 Restore - Chapter 1 of Many
Post by: JLB on May 18, 2022, 05:58:30 PM
I agree, stitching is best. However there is a Bugatti Royale in the Ford Dearborn museum that was repaired in a similar way, bolted plates but with epoxy sealing the plate to the engine. The plates with epoxy was a popular repair used for post WWII repairs.

Thanks for your interest,

Jim LeBlanc (JLB)
Title: Re: V16 Restore - Chapter 2 of Many
Post by: 35-709 on May 18, 2022, 09:47:41 PM
Is it normal for those engines to crack like that?  Is there a specific cause other than too thin, not enough structural webbing, over revving/abusing the engine? 
Title: Re: V16 Restore - Chapter 2 of Many
Post by: JLB on May 19, 2022, 08:13:18 AM
Mr. Newcombe,

I will offer a theory to address your question on why these flathead V16's develop cracks.

My leading theory is overheating. Points that support this theory:
- small water pumps
- crowded engine compartment
- radiator shutters that are prone to fail opening
- weak water temperature gauge

To address future overheating I am installing two mechanical water temperature gauges, one at the back of each cylinder head. The radiator shutters will be operated by a cable. The engine is still in assembly and I have asked for two thermostats to be installed with one in each upper radiator hose. Should all that prove ineffective, then an oil cooler will be added followed by additional measures as needed. Of course the radiator has been fully cleaned with all tubes clear.

Best Regards,

Jim LeBlanc
Title: Re: V16 Restore - Chapter 2 of Many
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on May 19, 2022, 08:31:59 AM
I would have thought that the cracking problem would have been caused by cold Winters, where the water expands as it freezes in the block.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: V16 Restore - Chapter 2 of Many
Post by: JLB on May 19, 2022, 08:59:20 AM
Bruce,

Excellent point !

I am from Southern California and for the past 6 years I live in Saginaw Michigan. I have never seen a block damaged from freezing so I am unable to evaluate the cracks for that cause.

To continue the dialog as to how these engines crack, past history of these engines include head gasket failure. My original engine was consuming a quart of coolant every 10 miles. Conversations with my neighbor who has been restoring cars for over 60 years and currently owns an impressive collection including a J Duesenberg and a 812 Cord leads me to blame head gasket failure. Contacting Olson Gaskets they admit that many years ago they made these V16 gaskets with a flaw. Of course since then they have corrected the problem. Obviously once a head gasket fails and coolant starts disappearing, that condition contributes to overheating. Also head and block cracks will lead to coolant loss.

Adding additional causes for engine overheating and cracking:
- head gasket failure
- freezing

Best Regards,

Jim LeBlanc
Title: Re: V16 Restore - Chapter 2 of Many
Post by: Johan Boltendal #158 on May 19, 2022, 11:14:53 AM
Hi, in an engines life cycle, there is most times an extented period of using plain water for coolant purposes. It will do the job, main disadvantage it the oxigen in the water
leads to rust inside the blocks the greater the block angle , the more severe the rust in the lower/underside of the blocks, thus thinning the walls and leading to cracks or holes.
Work on 29 to 33 Cadillacs and come upon this rusted through or cracked blocks often, I think a point to add to the failure issues.

Good luck with your undertaking, respect.   Johan
Title: Re: V16 Restore - Chapter 1 of Many
Post by: harry s on May 19, 2022, 11:36:34 AM
Jim, What a great and worthy undertaking. I will be following. Thanks for sharing.    Harry
Title: Re: V16 Restore - Chapter 2 of Many
Post by: JLB on May 19, 2022, 01:25:15 PM
Johan,

Excellent point !

In one of my articles I will show rusted head bolts that are reduced in length by at least 1/4 inch. As I was answering this thread and thinking of the rusted head bolts I was considering how rust reduces engine thickness. Thinking about this, if a head bolt is reduced by 1/4 inch then engine walls also shrink.

Thanks for confirming,

Jim LeBlanc
Title: Re: V16 Restore - Chapter 2 of Many
Post by: 35-709 on May 19, 2022, 10:47:47 PM
Thank you for your reply(s), Jim.
Geoff N.
Title: V16 Restore - Chapter 3 of Many
Post by: JLB on May 21, 2022, 01:22:35 PM
Reader,

I have created Chapter 3 on engine bolts. As a guy who repairs engines, I would never have expected so much effort to be put into the bolts on this engine.

My motivation to share this information comes from finding little of this type of detail. The Authenticity Manual is a most excellent resource and necessary as the first authoritative informational source.   

Attached is a pdf document. No videos on this one. I do have a few good ones coming on the subject of installing and testing the valves.
Title: V16 Restore - Chapter 4 of Many
Post by: JLB on May 21, 2022, 01:27:21 PM
Reader,

During engine disassembly, it seemed that at every turn we discovered unbelievable engine wear. This chapter covers engine pulleys and pumps. Discovering metal fatigue in the front pulleys along with all other wear factors led us to confirm more about the vehicle history. Contact with Chris Cummings, club historian gave a nugget of information leading to a 1952 magazine article.

Best Regards,

Jim LeBlanc
1940 Series 90 Town Car
Title: V16 Restore - Chapter 5 of Many
Post by: JLB on May 22, 2022, 12:15:38 PM
Reader,

This is chapter 5 of experiences and recommendations for a generation 2 V16 rebuild. The important recommendation is to never remove the engine block water distribution tubes (manifolds). Removal severely damages them for little, if any, benefit.

I have a five (5) videos to post with this chapter and have tried posting them a few times. I get a 503 error so I am guessing the collection of videos is too large. I will post one video at a time with the remaining videos as replies to this topic.

As always, I welcome your questions and feedback.

Best Regards,

Jim LeBlanc
Title: Re: V16 Restore - Chapter 5 of Many
Post by: JLB on May 22, 2022, 12:18:09 PM
Posting a video on checking cylinder bores. The engine was received with the cylinders already bored. We had pistons made to match the size. This machining corrects any imperfection in the bore.
Title: Re: V16 Restore - Chapter 5 of Many
Post by: JLB on May 22, 2022, 12:19:52 PM
Posting a video showing cutting of valve seats.
Title: Re: V16 Restore - Chapter 5 of Many
Post by: JLB on May 22, 2022, 12:25:54 PM
This video shows testing a valve. This one is most interesting to me. I never knew this procedure was used.
Title: Re: V16 Restore - Chapter 5 of Many
Post by: JLB on May 22, 2022, 12:28:33 PM
Posting a video of pressure cleaning the block after machining.
Title: Re: restoring a 1940 Series 90 V16 Town Car
Post by: jp1gt on May 23, 2022, 09:06:29 AM
While researching chrome on youtube there was a video that showed the whole process of re chroming the grill. Amazing!!! I hope yours is in good shape---
Title: Re: restoring a 1940 Series 90 V16 Town Car
Post by: JLB on May 23, 2022, 09:24:57 AM
Jack,

I did see that video. RestoreCars, Mark Clayton, suggested that if I were building a driver car that the new chrome paint looks real good. I gave that serious thought. After looking at that video I got a chrome repair estimate. That number is about $10,000 for re-chrome and any needed pitting repair. On the subject of restoring a car, there is a theme:

  - you need to love the car more than you love your money

Pictures of the grille are attached.

A link to the uTube video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27tD_K2t84U&t=13s

Best Regards,

Jim LeBlanc
Title: Re: restoring a 1940 Series 90 V16 Town Car
Post by: JLB on June 05, 2022, 02:43:24 PM
Reader,

Adding Chapter 6 which is all about restoring two of the Cadillac crests (logos). The important points to share are (1) using a toothpick in the place of a paintbrush and (2) the difficulty of using a clear coat over paint. An important technique of polishing rough brass surfaces with a steel pick is documented.

I hope to greet some of you at the upcoming Chicago Grand National meet.

As always I welcome questions and comments.

Best Regards,

Jim LeBlanc

Title: Re: restoring a 1940 Series 90 V16 Town Car
Post by: JLB on June 05, 2022, 02:47:05 PM
Adding more pictures of the engine block. From the top view, almost looks like two V8's end-to-end.
Title: Re: restoring a 1940 Series 90 V16 Town Car
Post by: DBOT805 on June 09, 2022, 10:52:37 PM
I have a 1940 series 62 4dr convertible,that I did a partial rest on.Paint,upholstery,dash woodgrain,rims with pinstriping.All done in original colors,and specially made oem style leathers.Im down to making conv top,which is no easy feat,not having an original rear bow height prior.It was a lot of work,thus far! Other Cads I take care of are: 1940 2dr conv,1950 conv,1957 eldo biarittz conv,1960 conv, and the low brow 55 4dr sedan,orig from Mx.Ive rebuilt all engines,except 41.Removed 60 cross member that severly cracked thru,and replaced with a cut out salvage yard unit.That was an impossible job,that I doubt anyone has done?Beginning new leather interior on 60 soon.I will post pics of my 40conv soon.It was said to be owned by C Gable,but have not found proof yet.It was 1st registered to Don Lee of Beverly Hills Cadillac&LaSalle in 1940,a friend of Gales?
Title: Re: restoring a 1940 Series 90 V16 Town Car
Post by: James Landi on June 10, 2022, 08:09:30 AM
That grill reestoration video is extraordinary.... I posted my comment on the youtube comment section as follows:   So glad that you took the extra time to curate your work with this impressive video... as the saying goes, pictures are worth a thousand words; however, your narrative adds the absolutely necessary details to understand the hands-on effort and expertise that culminates in this extraordinary restoration.  This video also left me wondering just how these grills were originally designed, manufactured, and assembled when new.  Likely, nothing remains of those processes...  and finally, metal/chromed grills and metal bumpers evaporated from car manufacturing nearly a half century ago...everything now is plastic...
Title: Re: restoring a 1940 Series 90 V16 Town Car
Post by: Mike Baillargeon #15848 on June 10, 2022, 09:02:48 AM
Quote from: James Landi on June 10, 2022, 08:09:30 AMThat grill reestoration video is extraordinary.... I posted my comment on the youtube comment section as follows:   So glad that you took the extra time to curate your work with this impressive video... as the saying goes, pictures are worth a thousand words; however, your narrative adds the absolutely necessary details to understand the hands-on effort and expertise that culminates in this extraordinary restoration.  This video also left me wondering just how these grills were originally designed, manufactured, and assembled when new.  Likely, nothing remains of those processes...  and finally, metal/chromed grills and metal bumpers evaporated from car manufacturing nearly a half century ago...everything now is plastic...


WOW !   Jim you made me watch that grille restoration video from start to finish....

You can see why a restored car costs so much to restore....And why a seller asks so much for the finished car....

Can you imagine the invoice on just this grille ?.....I'm sure it would buckle your knees...

But it sure is a nice piece of work !!

Mike
Title: Re: restoring a 1940 Series 90 V16 Town Car
Post by: Brad Ipsen CLC #737 on June 10, 2022, 10:54:03 PM
At the factory putting this grille together would not be that bad.  The pot metal parts would be precision with no thickness errors due to plating or age warping.  The plating process new was just a light polish of these parts.  No copper build up to take care of pits.  The brass vertical bars would all fit at the intersection of the pot metal parts.  I have watched the video and don't remember if this was mentioned or not but the vertical spacing of the horizontal bars is not even.  I had to make the center vertical bar in brass and learned this when making it. Apparently this uneven spacing was done so when you stood in front of it and looked the spacing would look equal despite your eye looking at them from a different angle.  When these really high end cars were made the people working on them would be the best of the best.  You have been working on the line for many years and then get selected to work on the special cars.  This must have applied to the upholstery shop also because there is some amazing work there also.  You worked 8 hours or more a day for many years and then the best of the best get to work on the V-16's and other show cars, etc.
Title: Re: restoring a 1940 Series 90 V16 Town Car
Post by: James Landi on June 11, 2022, 07:46:07 AM
"At the factory putting this grille together would not be that bad.  The pot metal parts would be precision with no thickness errors due to plating or age warping.  The plating process new was just a light polish of these parts.  No copper build up to take care of pits...  When these really high end cars were made the people working on them would be the best of the best.  You have been working on the line for many years and then get selected to work on the special cars.  This must have applied to the upholstery shop also because there is some amazing work there also.  You worked 8 hours or more a day for many years and then the best of the best get to work on the V-16's and other show cars, etc."

All salient points... I've selected two for additional comment.   The gentleman who narrates the resortation video of the grill did point out that the extra plating material would make the assembly process more challenging.  The other point you made regarding the experienced and more skilled employees was a "marketing feature" for two other much more contemporary Cadillac models (I've purchased).  BOth the Allante and XLR were promoted, in part, as having highly skilled workers on a slow moving assembly line... with the XLR V, the engines are "signed off" by an individual assembler.   THe promotion of the ALLANTE as having been assembled next to the Ferrari in Italy was intended to "transfer" the reputation as a hand crafted machine to  new Cadillac model--- requiring 747 cargo planes to what became know as "the longest assembly line" in automotive history.  Both attempts by Cadillac failed to impress most of the popular publications of America's automotive reviewers, who, apparently, never reviewed a Cadillac they liked, but apparently are passionate about German and Japanese cars.
Title: Re: restoring a 1940 Series 90 V16 Town Car
Post by: JLB on June 12, 2022, 03:28:21 PM
Reader,

Chapter 7 is all about starting the body work. Attached are:

Discussion of how we got into repainting the car
First of two videos. The next reply will offer the second video. 


Title: Re: restoring a 1940 Series 90 V16 Town Car
Post by: JLB on June 12, 2022, 03:35:21 PM
Reader,

This post is the second video showing the bare metal along with a picture of the skinned driver's door.

Best Regards,

Jim LeBlanc
Title: Re: restoring a 1940 Series 90 V16 Town Car
Post by: 2manycars on June 14, 2022, 10:00:29 PM
You def did the right thing stripping that car. I couldn't believe that driver's door. They must have laid the bondo in there with a trowel. How are you going to address that door skin? Are there still folks out there that can fabricate that?
Title: Re: restoring a 1940 Series 90 V16 Town Car
Post by: JLB on June 15, 2022, 08:12:54 AM
Bill,

Mark Clayton is a sheet metal expert and will fabricate a new exterior door panel. A major criteria I used for selecting his shop is his ability to fabricate parts. He does not cut new gears. For new gears, I use Al Meekins' shop.

For sheet metal fabrication, the key tool is the English Wheel. For an introduction to this tool, see uTube video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHm3-lu3e2Q

For cast metal replacements, the CNC machine is used to cut new parts. Mark's shop has in house CNC services along with many other tools and skills. I was surprised to find he did in house crankshaft grinding. Some needed services are shopped out, for example Babbitting, cam grinding, porcelain coatings, chrome, etc. 

So in summary, there are folks out there who can fabricate everything you need. My observation is that as baby boomers retire, finding these few people is getting harder.

Best Regards,

Jim LeBlanc
Title: Re: restoring a 1940 Series 90 V16 Town Car
Post by: JLB on June 19, 2022, 09:31:24 AM
Reader,

Once a month I get an invoice and a review of work accomplished and planned. This is typical of any project management meeting. I expect the next update to take place early July. Meanwhile the machinist, Kevin McCormick, has sent a few new pictures to share. The one showing the new rear main engine seal is my favorite. One of the major reasons this car went to the shop was the huge amount of oil draining out of the rear main.

The installed seal is from a Ford 428 V8.

The second picture shows measuring connecting rod side clearance. Notice the NOS (new old stock) gray oil filter canister.

I found the oil filter on eBay and added it to the project. The original engine, as I received it, was running without an oil filter. As we started the project I asked Kevin to install a full flow filter. He has measured the distance oil travels thru the engine and recommends against installing the full flow filter. The full flow filter will add more distance and thus add more stress to the oil pump.

Best Regards,

Jim LeBlanc
Title: Re: restoring a 1940 Series 90 V16 Town Car
Post by: JLB on June 19, 2022, 09:40:41 AM
Added the pictures as a reply and used the moment to add pictures of a correctly installed oil filter. Thanks to Brad Ipsen for those two pictures of a correctly installed oil filter.

It is worth mentioning that the Ford 428 V8 oil seal is a two part seal and is installed where the rope seal would reside. The red lubricant was used to check that the seal is riding on the crankshaft.
Title: Re: restoring a 1940 Series 90 V16 Town Car
Post by: JLB on June 22, 2022, 03:42:46 PM
I received a new video showing:
- rod and main bearing clearances
- checking of cam timing
Title: Re: restoring a 1940 Series 90 V16 Town Car
Post by: JLB on July 12, 2022, 07:38:55 PM
Reader,

The V16 is famous for using hydraulic lifters. A few owners have contacted me to sell spare lifters and I do have a few to offer. I have never felt good about sharing used lifters as it is difficult to determine condition of the internal parts.

Reviewing Tony Smith's work one finds modern lifters being fitted to a Gen 2 V16 rebuild. Additionally machinist, Kevin McCormick, mentioned his dyno work on a Packard V12. Multiple times did he have to go back into the Packard engine to repair faulty lifters. That said we decided to follow Tony Smith's footsteps and go forward with modern lifters. The modern lifters come from a big block Ford.

The original Cadillac lifters are shorter than modern lifters. To compensate for the needed length an extension is required. A diagram of that extension is attached. Also included are Facebook links to Tony Smith's work and Mark Clayton's work showing the lifter extension being installed.

Tony Smith's work:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.705687099452549&type=3

Mark Clayton's work:
https://www.facebook.com/1074356683/videos/456219579658073/
Title: Re: restoring a 1940 Series 90 V16 Town Car
Post by: JLB on August 11, 2023, 09:53:55 AM
Posting a dyno run showing Horsepower in excess of 180. Factory specs call for 185. This test is run in Colorado with its high altitude. The high altitude (of course) results in fewer oxygen molecules per cubic foot yielding lower horsepower. At sea level this engine will deliver more horsepower and exceed factory specs.

Balancing a washer -

Engine running on the dyno -

Engine running on dyno dashboard -
Title: Re: restoring a 1940 Series 90 V16 Town Car
Post by: jwwseville60 on September 29, 2023, 07:09:32 AM
Wow, that is the cat's meow!
So smooth.
I had a V12 Packard for years, but this is nicer. Two carbs is the way to go.
Title: Re: restoring a 1940 Series 90 V16 Town Car
Post by: JLB on November 30, 2023, 06:22:32 PM
Finally I have a set of vent windows. I seem to recall starting more than a year ago looking for and collecting these parts. Next step is to install them into the doors.

Cost so far has been $3500 for parts, $3800 for fabrication of the drivers side frame and $1000 for fabrication of the drivers side vent window sheet metal. The starting point for the project was Buick Limited Series 80 parts. Total is now $8300 before installation and chrome. I'm documenting this to help others know the difficulty in both getting these parts and the expense of making parts.

Resources used: Seybold Buick team and James Ruther, the pot metal guru.