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1971 CDV - Vibration at HWY speed under load

Started by impalamansgarage, February 09, 2016, 03:21:23 PM

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impalamansgarage

Pass side bearing
impalamansgarage
https://www.youtube.com/c/impalamansgarage
1971 CDV (http://bit.ly/1QylevA)
1981 CDV (Sold)
1992 SDV (Sold)
1963 Fleetwood (Teenage Junker Project - Sold)

impalamansgarage

Pass side housing. Looks like it got hot.
impalamansgarage
https://www.youtube.com/c/impalamansgarage
1971 CDV (http://bit.ly/1QylevA)
1981 CDV (Sold)
1992 SDV (Sold)
1963 Fleetwood (Teenage Junker Project - Sold)

bill06447

Quote from: bill06447 on February 09, 2016, 07:39:21 PM
Axle bearing or U-joint come to mind (pull the RH drum and check for oil a worn bearing will manifest itself as an oil leak first)

Bill

impalamansgarage

#43
Quote from: bill06447 on February 12, 2016, 09:23:04 PM


;)

We'll replace these bearings and hopefully that will be it. If it doesn't I'll take it somewhere and let an expert deal with the diff. Recently replaced rear axle bearings on my CJ so at least I have some practice on that !

The nature of the sounds really through me off. Live and learn.

impalamansgarage
https://www.youtube.com/c/impalamansgarage
1971 CDV (http://bit.ly/1QylevA)
1981 CDV (Sold)
1992 SDV (Sold)
1963 Fleetwood (Teenage Junker Project - Sold)

The Tassie Devil(le)

Looks to me like the outer surface of the races have been spinning within the housing.

Can you spin the outer surface around the axle itself?

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

Jeff Rosansky CLC #28373

It has been a long time since I have has one opened up so I forget the way the gearing is. However since the clicking goes away when the driveshft is turned, that tells me the slop is in the other gears. The driveshaft gear must load those gears up.
Jeff
Jeff Rosansky
CLC #28373
1970 Coupe DeVille (Big Red)
1955 Series 62 (Baby Blue)
Dad's new 1979 Coupe DeVille

impalamansgarage

#46
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on February 12, 2016, 10:15:33 PM
Looks to me like the outer surface of the races have been spinning within the housing.

Can you spin the outer surface around the axle itself?

Bruce. >:D

Yes. The bearings (both pass and drivers) spin but the pass side seems slightly gritty. I won't know the condition until I press it off the shaft.

Get this:  Page 4-30 step 6 of the shop manual says to, "Apply a light coat of wheel bearing grease on bearing." 

This is in the installation procedure. When I removed these axles, I saw no axle grease.... just rear diff oil. I always assumed you packed axle bearings thoroughly with grease.

My CJ has a seal inward separating the bearing from the diff oil so the bearing has to be greased.
impalamansgarage
https://www.youtube.com/c/impalamansgarage
1971 CDV (http://bit.ly/1QylevA)
1981 CDV (Sold)
1992 SDV (Sold)
1963 Fleetwood (Teenage Junker Project - Sold)

The Tassie Devil(le)

No, the races are already packed from the factory.

I think the factory mention of grease is to make assembling easier, plus easier to remove in years to come.   The outer part of the race must not spin.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

TJ Hopland

Where is the seal?   This style GM I remember messing with the seal was behind the retainer.  To change the seal you had to cut? a retaining collar then you could take the bearing and seal off.   New collar had to be pressed on then you could put it all back.   I remember the bearings being open on both sides.   Seems like the shop I had do mine left the seal on the outside of the bearings when they replaced them so just the inside was open.     Fords I remember the seal being the first thing inside then the sealed bearing so no oil got to them at all.     
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

impalamansgarage

#49
Quote from: TJ Hopland on February 13, 2016, 09:17:20 AM
Where is the seal?   This style GM I remember messing with the seal was behind the retainer.  To change the seal you had to cut? a retaining collar then you could take the bearing and seal off.   New collar had to be pressed on then you could put it all back.   I remember the bearings being open on both sides.   Seems like the shop I had do mine left the seal on the outside of the bearings when they replaced them so just the inside was open.     Fords I remember the seal being the first thing inside then the sealed bearing so no oil got to them at all.   

From inboard it is as follows:
1) Stock bearing retainer which sits in a groove. To remove it you have to split it with a cole chisel per the shop manual.
2) The bearing.
3) Seal
4) Backing plate with holes to bolt the axle assembly to the axle housing.

I chiseled off the bearing retainer this morning after I cut the outside of the bearing off with  a cutoff wheel. I chiseled off the inside race by tapping on each side, gradually moving it a little at a time. The seal just slips off after that.
The axle looks good. I did notice some hazing on the inside of the outside bearing race where it had been getting hot.
impalamansgarage
https://www.youtube.com/c/impalamansgarage
1971 CDV (http://bit.ly/1QylevA)
1981 CDV (Sold)
1992 SDV (Sold)
1963 Fleetwood (Teenage Junker Project - Sold)

cadman56

Be careful not to roll that small O-ring when inserting the axle into the housing.  Pretty easy to do.
Now, back to my 472 build, rest time is over.
Good Luck, Larry
1956 Cadillac Coupe deVille (sold)
1956 Cadillac Convertible (sold)
1956 Cadillac Eldorado Seville (sold)
1967 Cadillac Eldorado (sold)
1968 Cadillac Convertible (Sold)
1991 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham dElegance
Larry Blanchard CLC #5820

TJ Hopland

StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

savemy67

Hello Impalaman,

Before you cut the races off the bearings, were you able to tell if the bearings were producing the noise in your youtube clip?  If not, when you replace the bearings and install the axles you should try spinning the axles as you did in the youtube clip.  With new bearings, it may be more difficult to spin the axles.  I would consider this a good sign.  If the noise is still present, it is possible the noise is coming from the differential side gears as they rotate the carrier pinion (spider) gears.  This may or may not be a good sign.  How many miles are on the odometer?  Do you know the history of the car?

Christopher Winter
Christopher Winter
1967 Sedan DeVille hardtop

impalamansgarage

Quote from: cadman56 on February 13, 2016, 04:05:48 PM
Be careful not to roll that small O-ring when inserting the axle into the housing.  Pretty easy to do.
Now, back to my 472 build, rest time is over.
Good Luck, Larry

Good tip. I assume you are referring to the O Ring in the oil seal.
impalamansgarage
https://www.youtube.com/c/impalamansgarage
1971 CDV (http://bit.ly/1QylevA)
1981 CDV (Sold)
1992 SDV (Sold)
1963 Fleetwood (Teenage Junker Project - Sold)

impalamansgarage

#54
Quote from: savemy67 on February 13, 2016, 09:53:49 PM
Hello Impalaman,

Before you cut the races off the bearings, were you able to tell if the bearings were producing the noise in your youtube clip?  If not, when you replace the bearings and install the axles you should try spinning the axles as you did in the youtube clip.  With new bearings, it may be more difficult to spin the axles.  I would consider this a good sign.  If the noise is still present, it is possible the noise is coming from the differential side gears as they rotate the carrier pinion (spider) gears.  This may or may not be a good sign.  How many miles are on the odometer?  Do you know the history of the car?

Christopher Winter

This is a survivor car with 94,500 miles. It was driven by a long-lived gentleman who worked at a Cadillac dealership in Ohio. It spent time in storage and then was sold by the son to the previous owner about a year and a 1/2 ago. I bought it just recently. The story was that the car was well maintained. It appears as though it was but I do not know how long it was in storage. As you know, idle time does damage in some cases.

I will try to spin it up when I get the new outer bearings installed and see what happens.
impalamansgarage
https://www.youtube.com/c/impalamansgarage
1971 CDV (http://bit.ly/1QylevA)
1981 CDV (Sold)
1992 SDV (Sold)
1963 Fleetwood (Teenage Junker Project - Sold)

cadman56

Most of these types of bearings have a round groove for an O-ring in the outside face of the outer race & this groove is closest to the axle flange.  It is obvious in your pictures.  They keep dirt from getting into the axle housing & keep differential oil from getting out.  It is easy to roll or cut those O-rings.  My 56 had O-rings and so did a 60 I did a couple of years ago. 
These bearings are sealed at the factory.  I sold bearings and it amazed me how many people removed the side seals from these bearings.  Larry
1956 Cadillac Coupe deVille (sold)
1956 Cadillac Convertible (sold)
1956 Cadillac Eldorado Seville (sold)
1967 Cadillac Eldorado (sold)
1968 Cadillac Convertible (Sold)
1991 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham dElegance
Larry Blanchard CLC #5820

bill06447

The grease is to keep the bearings alive until the oil works its way from the diff to the bearings. As for the oil seal, there shouldn't be a groove where the lip rides on the axle. If there is, you can either replace the axle, have it filled and machined or use an axle repair bearing (this method I've used numerous times and works well) http://www.timken.com/en-us/products/bearings/productlist/roller/cylindrical/Pages/ACAxleRepairBearings.aspx

Bill

impalamansgarage

#57
Quote from: bill06447 on February 14, 2016, 07:13:17 PM
The grease is to keep the bearings alive until the oil works its way from the diff to the bearings. As for the oil seal, there shouldn't be a groove where the lip rides on the axle. If there is, you can either replace the axle, have it filled and machined or use an axle repair bearing (this method I've used numerous times and works well) http://www.timken.com/en-us/products/bearings/productlist/roller/cylindrical/Pages/ACAxleRepairBearings.aspx

Bill

The axle housing and the shaft look good. Also this OEM bearing had no grooves in it to accommodate O rings. Once the bearing is fully seated, the oil seal butts up against it. I've attached the bearing and retainer called for on this car. Timken SET10.

On the lighter side, I found bearings and seals for $67 bucks on rockauto.com!! Nice !
impalamansgarage
https://www.youtube.com/c/impalamansgarage
1971 CDV (http://bit.ly/1QylevA)
1981 CDV (Sold)
1992 SDV (Sold)
1963 Fleetwood (Teenage Junker Project - Sold)

The Tassie Devil(le)

That picture would be a Generic Picture of an axle bearing and retainer.

The new one could have the "O" Ring in place.

As for the lubrication of the bearing, definitely don't pull off the side covers, as a properly manufactured bearing will last for many years with the factory-installed grease.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

impalamansgarage

Parts should be in today!  Soon I'll get this beast back on the road.
impalamansgarage
https://www.youtube.com/c/impalamansgarage
1971 CDV (http://bit.ly/1QylevA)
1981 CDV (Sold)
1992 SDV (Sold)
1963 Fleetwood (Teenage Junker Project - Sold)