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My 1973 Cadillac Eldorado convertible (new timing chain)

Started by foxsnout, January 30, 2022, 03:46:12 PM

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foxsnout

I´m in the progress of changing the timing chain of my 1973 Cadillac Eldorado convertible. First of all thank you to all of you sharing their restoration storys...for advice..lots of good tips and knowledge.
To begin with: Two or three years ago  i admired a 1973 golden Cadillac Eldorado on the youtube channel. I saw the video several times.....a year or so later i contacted the owner of that Cadillac. Got in contact with him...asked if he is willing to sell his Eldorado to me. But he didn´t want to.
At the same time an almost  identical car showed up in Michigan out of a collection. A golden 1973 Cadillac Eldorado with 11600 original miles! After a lot of conversation, pictures and finally the proof of the mentioned low miles i bought the car and shipped it to Germany (it arrived last year in february)
After the usual things to get it road ready (brake work, fluids,....) and some other stuff, i drove and enjoyed it the last summer approx. 500 miles. It drives super smooth, no rattles, no squeaks....a blast to drive!
And of course i´ve read about the ,,problem" with the nylon toothed sproket and the timing chain. As a precaution i decided to pull the engine and change the timing chain. Also it will be easier to clean everything up and detail the engine, trans and engine bay. The engine, oil pan, valve covers look rusty...not really like you are expecting on a low mileage engine. (Have you seen the engine compartment of the 88 miles Eldorado at the mecum auction a few days ago? Looked like a 100K miles engine or worse...similar to mine). But once i opened it....everything looked super clean. Absolutely no sludge or wear. Every bolt came of easily....even the exhaust manifold bolts. Fingers crossed it will go on like that!
Here are some pictures: 
1959 Cadillac Fleetwood Sixty Special
1973 Cadillac Eldorado convertible
1952 Buick Super
1952 Fabulous Hudson Hornet Race Car #92
1973 Chrysler New Yorker

foxsnout

...pulled the engine and the trans as a unit...this was pretty straight forward. Look how nicely balanced the whole unit is on the original hooks!
1959 Cadillac Fleetwood Sixty Special
1973 Cadillac Eldorado convertible
1952 Buick Super
1952 Fabulous Hudson Hornet Race Car #92
1973 Chrysler New Yorker

foxsnout

Then i separated the engine from the transmission...those two little dowel pins were slightly corroded so it took me quite some time. But finally after i hit it with a torch it came of easily. Pulled the hub balancer with a normal puller. Then i removed the timing chain cover....and.....the original timing chain with the nylon teethed sprocket looked like brand new! No cracks, fully intact and super clean....no sludge, nothing. Probably it would have last another 49 years? I ordered a Cloyes full roller timing chain and installed it. This is where i am right now. Next steps: clean up everything....paint it Cadillac dark blue,.....
Here are some pictures:
1959 Cadillac Fleetwood Sixty Special
1973 Cadillac Eldorado convertible
1952 Buick Super
1952 Fabulous Hudson Hornet Race Car #92
1973 Chrysler New Yorker

The Tassie Devil(le)

G'day Marco,

I think you have really dodged the bullet with that Cam Gear.

A close look at the bottom of the gear (I enlarged it) in the picture with the chain and gear still in place I can see a couple of cracks that wouldn't take long to begin to self-destruct.   Plus, the wear to the Crank Gear teeth indicate that it is a high-mileage engine, as the wear marks are deep.

Bruce. >:D

PS.   I would not be advising the use of nylon slings directly under the sharp edges of the original lifting points.   If anything, place a 'D' shackle to the points, then run the sling through the rounded edges of said 'D' shackle.
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

hornetball

Nicely done.  It looks like there are a few cracks in that cam gear to me too -- although it is the best one I've seen.  Enjoy your car.

Nice Hudson!

Roger Zimmermann

Interesting cars in your garage!
I'm not so sure about Bruce's comments: as I'm sure you did not clean thoroughly the pinion for the picture, the chain must leave some marks.
When I bought my '72 CdV some years ago with 20'000 miles, I let replace the chain and pinions. The nylon was in a good condition but for how long? A picture is attached.
I have a friend who owns a '71 Fleetwood with an incredible mileage; he still has the original distribution with no issue...
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

foxsnout

...i´ve cleaned nothing in the inside of the engine....and never saw an original engine (which is nearly 50 years old) that is so clean from the inside. The sprocket has absolutely no signs of wear....what you see in the picture is an imprint of the chain...but no scratches or wear....just some MINIMAL marks from the chain. Bruce >:D...took some detailed pictures of the sprocket especially for you...lol. I have to agree that on the previous picture it looks like the nylon has cracked on one spot...but after thourougly inspection there is nothing (see picture). The chain was tight with absolutely no slope at all. But as i said before...i changed it precautionary and to detail the engine. Super clean is also the rocker assembly and the inside of the valve covers and the oil pan! I´ve cleaned nothing so far.
There are also other tell tale signs of a low mileage car: talking about the interior, door sill plates and the door strikers. No rattling or squeaking. The car has some blemishes in the paint. Pretty sure it was not stored properly in his lifetime. I have the original invoice of the car. It was bought on the 10.16.1972 from Mr. William Russel Kelly (the founder of kellyservices, Michigan). The dealer it came from was Dagleish Cadillac (Cass. Ave, Detroit). He traded in a 1971 2dr. Cadillac (the trade in was $5400,40). The total down payment for the 1973 Eldorado was $8709,40. I have also some maintenance records of the car proofing the 11600 miles. Mr. W.R. Kelly drove the car to his holiday home in Florida where it stayed for three years...than it returned to Michigan to his other cars in his collection and stayed there. In 1976 he bought another Cadillac Eldorado convertible. This car had around 18000 miles on the clock. I brokered /helped selling that car to Germany/Bavaria. In the collection of Mr. Adderley (the son of W.R. Kelly) were a lot of low mileage cars.
That is the story in short......as i know it is not always the best to have a low mileage car, it is somewhat of nice to have such a clean engine and other benefits (interior,...). Anyways I bought the car as a driver!
1959 Cadillac Fleetwood Sixty Special
1973 Cadillac Eldorado convertible
1952 Buick Super
1952 Fabulous Hudson Hornet Race Car #92
1973 Chrysler New Yorker

Roger Zimmermann

The 1972 Coupe de Ville I bought with about 20'000 miles is also original with the exception of a repainted hood. Obviously, the way those cars were built at that time is deceiving compared to actual standards. There are dents from inside to outside which cannot be done later because the construction does not allow it. The paint quality is so-so. Nice when looked at 1 to 2 meters, but questionable compared to a modern car. Sure, the age of the car (50 years this year) is not kind for the acrylic paint, but I'm sure actual car stored in the same conditions will look better in 50 years.
Anyway, enjoy your car(s)!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

foxsnout

@hornetball and Roger....although off topic....my Hudson was a complete other story. Bought as a started restoration project in Canada, not on the road for over 40 years! Talking about a tired engine!!!Look at the sludge in the valve covers! I rebuild the engine completely (bored over 0.30,.....). There are not a lot two door club coupes around anymore...can you imagine how challenging it can get to search for parts (i´m located in Germany). I wanted to  create a tribute car to Herb Thomas NASCAR racer. The lettering is all hand painted!
Greetings, Marco
1959 Cadillac Fleetwood Sixty Special
1973 Cadillac Eldorado convertible
1952 Buick Super
1952 Fabulous Hudson Hornet Race Car #92
1973 Chrysler New Yorker

The Tassie Devil(le)

G'day Marco,

Boy, what a difference between the two pictures.   That first picture of the Crank Gear looked really worn.

Glad it cleaned up nice.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

foxsnout

When you take something apart there are always things you could do as well...some things are a must...some of them you should rather keep your hands of (i wanted only to change the timing chain).
Since my engine looks really nice and clean on the inside (and it performed flawlessly), with no leaks i think i will not touch, remove the intake manifold. I´m a little bit in worry to install a new valley pan and create a leak...that would be annoying. And the valve stem seals...(they look really good)?
Never change a running system?
Roger...what have you done with your 20Kmiles Coupe de Ville?
Thanks to all for your opinions!
Marco

   
1959 Cadillac Fleetwood Sixty Special
1973 Cadillac Eldorado convertible
1952 Buick Super
1952 Fabulous Hudson Hornet Race Car #92
1973 Chrysler New Yorker

Roger Zimmermann

Quote from: foxsnout on February 02, 2022, 04:16:32 PM
Roger...what have you done with your 20Kmiles Coupe de Ville?
On this car, I did not the work myself, I let it do in the States before the car was exported. As I know that Americans are usually rather lazy with maintenance, it was a wise move: next the the distribution overhaul, the master cylinder, booster, front calipers, rear wheel cylinders were replaced. I assume the brake fluid was still the original one and all elements had rust. The bushings at the front and rear suspension were no more good and were replaced. The underbody looked very bad, some rust had to be repaired due to the lack of underbody washing; amazing for a car with only 20'000 miles.
I have the impression that in its early life, the car had several issues: the compressor was once replaced; the radiator replaced with one in aluminum, an engine cooling thermometer was added, 2 electric fans were added which ran all the time (I discarded them); the transducer for the Cruise Control was repaired by a company which hopefully went bankruptcy because it was wrongly reassembled...But the previous owners took care of the exterior because this is what other people can see. Rusted wheel cylinders? Nobody cares because nobody see it!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

foxsnout

....time to finish the story....with an happy end.
A lot of cleaning....some more cleaning,.....cleaning,... cleaning. Some new gaskets...a can of blue paint (i used Bill Hirsch Cadillac dark blue). The tin parts were all epoxy primed before paint. After that i installed the transmission to the engine. Of course i primed the oil pump. Than the whole unit went back into the car.
The engine runs smooth as silk. Truly a dream how the car floats down the road. No drips, no leaks! The engine looks like new again (of course the engine bay will get some more detailing in the next months) and the timing chain won´t give me a headache anymore.
Enjoy the pictures.
Happy motoring, Marco 
1959 Cadillac Fleetwood Sixty Special
1973 Cadillac Eldorado convertible
1952 Buick Super
1952 Fabulous Hudson Hornet Race Car #92
1973 Chrysler New Yorker

Roger Zimmermann

1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101