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Have you bought bulbs recently...

Started by Cape Cod Fleetwood, March 03, 2023, 11:08:11 AM

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Cape Cod Fleetwood

Part of the work being done to The Ark when he returns to Hyannis Vintage Auto shortly is ALL of the bulbs
behind the dash being replaced. I wanted to go all LED, Michael nixed that. Fresh bulbs and he'll 'dust' behind the displays, it will be a lot brighter. Fine, so I got all new bulbs yesterday, and some are in short supply ergo they're not making them anymore. 161 and 89 bulbs to be precise, if you use these, I'd grab a pack, NAPA and Advanced Auto Parts still have some in their supply line. I'll be using Super Brite LEDs for back up lights and a mod is being done to the gizmo that holds the light. I just can't see behind the car at night with the standard lights. And no worries, all will be returned to 'stock' before the Nationals. Cost for all this happiness? $86 - for 17 light bulbs... This hemorrhaging of cash will be ending soon.
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

bcroe

One of the problems with dim external lights, is
a coating of dirt.  At night I clean the headlights
every time I stop, works. 

I too have been tired of dim or burned out dash
lights.  Sometimes the heat damages the bulb mount,
and contact fails.  LEDs may be the cure, getting the
right color/intensity may be a problem.  Bruce Roe

TJ Hopland

If you can find 'regular' bulbs that are recent production the quality seems to be pretty terrible even if they still have a big name printed on the package. 

Did you ask why not LED's?   I'm not saying its good or bad just curious to hear their reasons.  What I have seen the issues are is regular bulbs tended to radiate fairly evenly over a pretty wide range so the exact orientation and location in the housing or assembly didn't tend to be that critical.  With LED's that is not really how they work its actually pretty difficult to make one radiate like say a 161 did.

If you did make one that did radiate like a 161 it would likely be fairly expensive, power hungry, and hot and you would end up wasting a lot of that light you were paying for in several ways in many applications.  The answer is to pretty much design a specific replacement more specifically for the application. 

Sometimes you do see specs for a certain style of bulb where they are available in different versions and have diagrams showing their patterns so you can make a decent guess if you know where its going.   
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

GBrown #8092

I talked to an LED Bulb vendor at a swap meet, who advised that they can't be dimmed. They are either on or off.

The dash lights on the 57 Brougham are a monumental pain to change, and many are burned . I'd like to do the job once during my tenure and be done with it. But don't like the idea of the dash being so bright as to be distracting.

GB

TJ Hopland

Was the vendor that said LED's can't be dimmed maybe trying to sell regular bulbs? 

Leds are easy to dim especially in a pure DC circuit controlled by a rheostat.  It doesn't get much easier especially for something like a dash light that should not need that much dimming range. 

Higher voltage AC circuit and you want the range of an old bulb, that is a little more complex but is done all the time.

Could you have a LED that is so poorly designed and wrong for the application that can't dim?  Sure but that is the really easy part of something like a dash light.  The light distribution is the more difficult part as I mentioned in my first reply.       
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Roger Zimmermann

On my '72 de Ville, I saw almost nothing during the night. I replaced the standard bulbs with dimmable LED from Super Bright leds Inc. I don't regret that buy.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Roger Zimmermann

Quote from: GBrown #8092 on March 03, 2023, 03:59:05 PMI talked to an LED Bulb vendor at a swap meet, who advised that they can't be dimmed. They are either on or off.

The dash lights on the 57 Brougham are a monumental pain to change, and many are burned . I'd like to do the job once during my tenure and be done with it. But don't like the idea of the dash being so bright as to be distracting.

GB
As I answered above, I replaced the instrument lamps from my '72 de Ville with LED bulbs. Many years ago, I was sold halogen bulbs type 57 for the Brougham dash. That was the most stupid idea: they draw too much current. The sole I finally used were for the turn light indicator. The remaining bulbs were the standard ones. The illumination on the Brougham is still good with those bulbs.
To replace burnt bulbs, I believe that it's necessary to remove the upper dash panel. It's a one day work...
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

fishnjim

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-V/part-571/subpart-B/section-571.108

Automotive lighting is all controlled by the Federal Stds, sect 108.   See link above.  Other countries have similar.   DOE puts it's nose in there too and incandescents are "pooh-poohed" for energy consumption.  Not many plants making them state side.  It's kinda going the way to the buggy whip.

When I was "working", they were designing reflectors for the "new" led lights, to meet the stds.   "We" supplied colored lens plastic and injection technology.
I suspect some of the import/replacement product may not conform. 
Like most things when the parts inventory depletes and the decision to make more and how many is on", it's an economic decision.   A manufacturer has to run off a large quantity to be economical, offset conversion costs, etc. but the sales won't justify holding the inventory.   More profitable bulbs would be made.
These type issues will only get progressively more difficult as time passes for collectors, let alone "drivers" with higher use needs.   Hoarding isn't always the way to go.  That lessens sales long term.  One can end up with the obsolete, non-moving inventory themselves.  So long as they can pass on the costs in higher prices things will be available.   C'est la "economie".

Cape Cod Fleetwood

Quote from: GBrown #8092 on March 03, 2023, 03:59:05 PMI talked to an LED Bulb vendor at a swap meet, who advised that they can't be dimmed. They are either on or off.

The dash lights on the 57 Brougham are a monumental pain to change, and many are burned . I'd like to do the job once during my tenure and be done with it. But don't like the idea of the dash being so bright as to be distracting.

GB

Fake news. I did the interior of my SUV over with LED, they dim fine, 'theater lighting', etc.
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

Cape Cod Fleetwood

Quote from: TJ Hopland on March 03, 2023, 03:04:43 PMIf you can find 'regular' bulbs that are recent production the quality seems to be pretty terrible even if they still have a big name printed on the package. 

Did you ask why not LED's?   I'm not saying its good or bad just curious to hear their reasons.  What I have seen the issues are is regular bulbs tended to radiate fairly evenly over a pretty wide range so the exact orientation and location in the housing or assembly didn't tend to be that critical.  With LED's that is not really how they work its actually pretty difficult to make one radiate like say a 161 did.

If you did make one that did radiate like a 161 it would likely be fairly expensive, power hungry, and hot and you would end up wasting a lot of that light you were paying for in several ways in many applications.  The answer is to pretty much design a specific replacement more specifically for the application. 

Sometimes you do see specs for a certain style of bulb where they are available in different versions and have diagrams showing their patterns so you can make a decent guess if you know where its going.   

Mainly because some of those bulbs being replaced are 53 years old and still working. The car's electrical system was designed for these old bulbs. Some of the quality on LEDs can be suspect, though I use SuperBriteLED in many applications without issue. "If" one, or more, of those dash bulbs were replaced with LED, and they failed, it will be expensive to fix. IE 'they' take it all apart, not me. Old school bulbs do get dull over time before they burn out. I'm sure fresh bulbs and a good dusting behind the display will make a difference.
There are 2 kinds of cars in the world, Cadillac and everything else....

The Present -1970 Fleetwood Brougham

The Past -
1996 Deville Concours
1987 Sedan De Ville "Commonwealth Edition"
1981 Coupe De Ville (8-6-4)
1976 Sedan De Ville
1975 Sedan De Ville

The Daily Driver and work slave -
2008 GMC Acadia SLT *options/all

Roger Zimmermann

Quote from: Cape Cod Fleetwood on March 04, 2023, 11:05:58 AMFake news. I did the interior of my SUV over with LED, they dim fine, 'theater lighting', etc.
Could be. Don't forget that the bulbs from the fifties have a different socket and it could be that kind of bulbs is not available as dimming ones. I should search...
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

TJ Hopland

A common failure point for the bulbs with metal sockets is the tip contact. It was usually solder so fairly soft and an alloy that isn't the best for long term corrosion resistance. It doesn't take much at all to clean those up, I used to do it on my legs assuming I was wearing jeans.  You can also get some corrosion on the socket end again our friend dissimilar metals.

And I keep forgetting to add that Super Bright LED seems to be a pretty decent supplier.  I have used them for many years and they seem to have decent quality stuff. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

gkhashem

#12
Where are you looking?  I have an ample supply since when I buy them from Rock Auto I buy the box of 10.

Wagner Bulbs 89  and 161 can be bought as of today in a box of 10 for  $ 2.90 and $ 3.50.  So do a bit of research and order 20 bulbs for $ 6.40, now why do I have an ample supply?

Since the shipping is $10.99 why not get an assortment of the many bulbs the car needs and make the shipping hurt a but less.

Also you get a 5% discount too at Rock Auto.

I have used some LEDs in bulbs that are in a dome or door light since they create very little heat. In my 1970s cars some of the fixtures had burn marks so I went with an LED.

Also I have never had an issue with new bulbs,  now they may not last 50 years but I have spares.  I have had good luck with Wagner or Phillips.
1959 Oldsmobile 98 Holiday Sports Sedan
1960 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr #72)
1964 Oldsmobile 98 Town Sedan (OCA 1st)
1970 GMC C1500
1977 Oldsmobile 98 Regency Coupe
1978 Cadillac Coupe Deville (CLC Sr Crown #959)*
1992 Oldsmobile 98 (OCA 1st)
1996 Oldsmobile 98
*CLC Past President's Preservation

Past Cadillacs
1959 Coupe Deville
1966 Coupe Deville (Sr #861)*
1991 Eldorado Biarritz (Sr #838)

bcroe

Motivation here, I am tired of heat from the
incandescents damaging the mounts, tired of
the varied illumination at different areas,
tired of burnouts and intermittent lighting,
tired of repeated maintenance trying to get
it all back.  That might require complete
board removal and revision after heat damage. 

So LEDs might be the cure, I will permanently
build them in if needed.  But getting them
just right may not be trivial.  Bruce Roe

jaxops

#14
I bought a set online...made in communist China.  They looked exactly like the originals...except they wouldn't turn when you push them into the socket.  I paid $8 for an NOS bulb, and it worked perfectly.  The knock-off bulbs are good for decorating the inside of your trash can!  You were lucky that your worked Laurie!
1970 Buick Electra Convertible
1956 Cadillac Series 75 Limousine
1949 Cadillac Series 75 Imperial Limousine
1979 Lincoln Continental
AACA, Cadillac-LaSalle Club #24591, ASWOA

Roger Zimmermann

Some bulbs made in China cannot even be installed. I had this experience with a type 90; I don't remember what was the issue. I had to search for better ones.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

joeinbcs

Curious to know if anyone has found LED bulbs that mimic the incandescents in their color warmth and appearance.
I want to use LED's now that I have my dash out, but am not really a fan of the bluish white color temperature on many LED's.  Some vendors offer colors, like Amber and Yellow, but a color that didn't look "right" might be worse than no color at all.  Thanks, Joe
Joe Northrop
9633 Whispering Ridge
College Station, TX  77845
joenorthrop@yahoo.com
979-324-6432

1967 Eldorado, Atlantis Blue Firemist (slick top), Blue leather.

V63

I used LED in many older vehicles and am pleased with the results, especially 6v applications as better illumination

TJ Hopland

Quote from: joeinbcs on October 15, 2023, 10:09:33 AMCurious to know if anyone has found LED bulbs that mimic the incandescents in their color warmth and appearance.
I want to use LED's now that I have my dash out, but am not really a fan of the bluish white color temperature on many LED's.  Some vendors offer colors, like Amber and Yellow, but a color that didn't look "right" might be worse than no color at all.  Thanks, Joe

You are not looking at the right vendors if they are not listing the 'color' of the 'white' lamps. Same deal when you are buying lighting for your house or whatever.

For a good vendor/product it should give the color temperature in Kelvin like say 2700k.   They will often give you a name like cool or warm but that is much more subjective.   2700k is about as close as it gets to a standard classic light bulb.  5000k is your classic institutional florescent color.   There are 4000's that are a little less harsh.   3000's just slightly whiter.  2100k is the 'antique' usually open filament look and that is really getting into the yellow candle light range.

I just took a quick look at SuperBrightLED's site that was mentioned before and they do give the color temps of the 'white' lights.  Many types look to be available in something in the 3000 range and in the 5000 range just like going to home depot for your home. 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

The Tassie Devil(le)

But, can LED's be used in Dash Boards and the rheostat still work as intended?

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe