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1967 Eldorado Vinyl Roof Replacement & More!

Started by 67_Eldo, April 12, 2018, 03:32:15 PM

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67_Eldo

I might as well document the vinyl roof replacement episodes here. Perhaps this will serve as a warning to those to are tempted to mess with their own vinyl tops in the future!  :)

I'll start off with these pictures and then add color commentary as time goes along.

In the beginning, there was a 1967 Eldorado that seemingly had no rust. As you can see from the first picture, the top looked just fine from six feet away. But there were a few small oddities in the way it was attached to the car. Curiosity got the better of me, and I've been paying for it since.

67_Eldo

The second post in a series of pictures.

67_Eldo

The third post in a series of pictures.

67_Eldo

The fourth post in a series of pictures.

Pic 36 is of a mold that I made with Kato Polyclay of the lower-right-hand corner of the rear-window channel. Some of the blobs are due to the fact that there are holes in the existing rusty channel. However, on the whole, the rear-window channel wasn't damaged as badly as I expected. I'll only have to patch it in a few small places other than the lower corners.

Once I made that mold (and baked it in the over for 30 minutes), I sit down with my calipers and play with dimensions in Autocad's Fusion360.

The CAD model produced a 3D print that I could then drop into the existing rusty channel to see if my dimensions were on track (pic #37).

So far, so good.

The Tassie Devil(le)

Boy, what a mess.

Another reason I don't like vinyl tops.

But, once started, it is very difficult to stop.   When does one bite the bullet, and abandon a project?

Congratulations for keeping on going.

Bruce. >:D
'72 Eldorado Convertible (LHD)
'70 Ranchero Squire (RHD)
'74 Chris Craft Gull Wing (SH)
'02 VX Series II Holden Commodore SS Sedan
(Past President Modified Chapter)

Past Cars of significance - to me
1935 Ford 3 Window Coupe
1936 Ford 5 Window Coupe
1937 Chevrolet Sports Coupe
1955 Chevrolet Convertible
1959 Ford Fairlane Ranch Wagon
1960 Cadillac CDV
1972 Cadillac Eldorado Coupe

67_Eldo

Thanks!

If I didn't already have $30k in this car, I probably would have called a halt a year ago. But now that it runs like a top, I figure it deserves a new top as well. :)

After I get the top finished, then the work on the rest of car can resume. I'm a looooong way from the Finish Line.

67_Eldo

Moving forward very slowly and carefully …

Got the passenger-side rear-window channel de-rusted -- using a host of handy air tools (saw, grinder, cutting wheel, tiny belt sander, etc) -- and ready for its new patch.

D.Smith

Thanks for documenting the progress.   I wish I had done that with my 68.   But I had a trim shop do the work, and was away on vacation when most of it was worked on. 

As you can see my cars top was toast.   They had a glass company pull the rear window out first.  There were small rust holes at the bottom corners hidden under the moldings.   So that had to be fixed at the body shop next door (as well as the moldings repainted) and the trim shop put the new roof on and the glass company reinstall the rear glass.  Total cost :$1300.   

67_Eldo

Quote from: D.Smith on April 18, 2018, 09:58:11 AM
Thanks for documenting the progress.
You're welcome! Had I seen a detailed breakdown of what is involved in taking apart and refurbishing a vinyl top, I probably wouldn't have started to do so. Let this be a warning to future generations! :-)

If you got away with a $1300 roof rust repair, count yourself as one of the luckiest folks on the planet. If I was doing this work on somebody else's car, I'd charge them at least 1.2 zillion dollars. Then again, I'm disassembling and reassembling the middle third of the car.

Bonus experiment!

Yesterday I tried a passenger-side, rear-view mirror experiment. I took a cheap aftermarket mirror and attached it to a sheet-metal hook and a big ol' honkin' magnet. I started with a cheap, plastic mirror, but its range of adjustment wasn't large enough to allow it to easily work. So I grabbed my funky clip-to-the-rain-gutter mirror, took off the rain-gutter clip, and attached it to the magnet.

This mirror setup stood up to 20 miles of driving around in windy conditions at speeds up to 60 MPH, but I don't think I'm going with it as a "permanent" (temporary) solution. Instead, I think I'm going to work up some sort of side-view camera + old iPad solution.

Magnets!

JRockZ

Man what a mess that was! mine wasnt that bad but it also wasnt very good either! i just patched it for now but really the back glass needed to come out! 
I have progress pics posted here on my drive tribe  https://drivetribe.com/p/started-fixing-the-roof-really-GQZbFJPTQMOF80B29EoQ6Q?iid=WxHK5_HOR421qC-d1WkamQ
Im happy with the outcome for now!

67_Eldo

Good luck, JRockZ! Keep that sucker dry from here on out.

Progress continues to be slow on my car, but hopefully we're getting it right.

The first photo in today's installment (#43) shows the driver's-side rear-window channel marked for cutting. The thing being cut along the sail-panel side (the vertical section of the "L") is the *top* layer of the two layers of sheet metal. We need to keep the lower layer -- which is part of the inner top structure -- in place to strengthen and locate the window channel patch. There is still some body putty and even some ancient lead filler (the really shiny area in the lower-left corner) that still needs to come out.

Photo #44 is a closeup of the corner of the window channel after most of the material mentioned above has been ground away. The reason I single this piece out is because there was *not* a matching piece on the passenger-side window channel. This appeared to serve no useful function, so it was eventually cut out because it got in the way of properly aligning my new patch.

Photo #45 shows the result of my panel-splitting first pass. Instead of legit pneumatic bodywork tools, I was using my Dremel and, where the long, shiny scar close to the top of the section is, an oscillating saw. These are not the tools to use to break spot welds and peel back a thin layer of rusty metal. So I got impatient and started yanking on things with some pliers. As you can see, the yanking ended up giving me sort of a roller coaster ride down the side of the roof. The lesson here: Don't get impatient!

Photo #46 Back in the legit bodyworking environment, I had to fix that mutilated lower panel before I could accurately lay a new patch on top of it. It turned out there was more of the old top layer to peel away (at the bottom) and sections at the top to patch with new welds. Unfortunately, I did not take a pic of the final product after I finished welding new metal in, grinding it down, and straightening it all out. But that took about an hour of non-stop labor with all of the best tools available.

Photo #47 is as far as I got last night. The new patch has been tacked into place and fits very well. I used a straightedge to make sure the left edge of the new patch was a perfect continuation of the original panel that remained in place above.

This doesn't appear to be much work, but appearances are deceiving! No wonder pros charge so much to take the rust out of GM rear-window channels!

DeVille68

1968 Cadillac DeVille Convertible (silver pine green)

67_Eldo

Thanks!

I'm in too deep. No going back now! :-)

Roger Zimmermann

Oh boy! When I restored my '56 Biarritz (called nice rust), I thought that I was very mad to do such a job. However, compared at what you are doing, it was enjoyment!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

DaddyDeVille

Quote from: 67_Eldo on April 18, 2018, 03:18:31 PM
This mirror setup stood up to 20 miles of driving around in windy conditions at speeds up to 60 MPH, but I don't think I'm going with it as a "permanent" (temporary) solution. Instead, I think I'm going to work up some sort of side-view camera + old iPad solution.

I'm thinking about doing a camera with my 67 as well.  I like the look of the single mirror, but backing it up and parking it is a pain when trying to align in a parking lot.  Let me know what you learn :)
1 Old car (The Green Devil~le) (Lots of gas)
1 New Truck (Not quite lots of gas, but still a lot of gas)
1 New Car (no gas)
1 Newish Bike (Some gas)
1 Old bike (Some more gas)

https://chuckdidit.wordpress.com/
https://www.instagram.com/mightneedoil/

67_Eldo

Quote from: DaddyDeVille on April 27, 2018, 10:25:18 AM
I'm thinking about doing a camera with my 67 as well.
I'm printing up a side-view camera prototype right now! It should be finished printing in about eight hours. I'm going to try the same mount-with-magnet trick with it.

Last year, I created a few license-plate-oriented prototypes, starting with the standard license-plate-frame idea and getting progressively more complicated. I'll post a few pics of those too when this new one is out of the oven.

67_Eldo

The beat goes on. The driver's side rear-window channel got one round of welding and grinding tonight. The passenger side got tacked and partially welded.

On the other tangent, the 3D-printed side camera is still being tweaked. I'll have a prototype photo sometime this week.

67_Eldo

Photo #50 shows the finished first-pass run of welding new metal into the rear-window channel.

As time consuming as patching the channel was, I'm guessing that welding in the new sail panels (and refining the welds in the window channel) will take another 20 hours of applied welding/grinding/hammering effort to make sure the rear window is as solid as possible. At my previous rate, that would be about five weeks.

But since our last body-shop class of the spring semester took place last night, I'm not sure when I'll have access to a MIG welder again.

Needless to say, I won't be finishing up the top in May. :-)

35-709

1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2

67_Eldo

Quote from: 35-709 on May 09, 2018, 01:08:13 PM
Couldn't get along without my little MIG.
That's a great price!

I'm looking at the $500+ Harbor Freight items. I've been spoiled by the Lincoln welders I've been using (on a Cadillac!).

Does the Eastwood MIG welder do well?