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1956 Hydramatic: massive oil leak

Started by Roger Zimmermann, October 28, 2022, 06:51:43 AM

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Roger Zimmermann

It took some time to go further with that issue. This afternoon, I went under the car with running engine. To make things clearer, the closing plate at the flywheel housing was removed. At idle, there was some drip, but nothing alarming. It was a different matter when the transmission had to work: with the lever in "D" and some acceleration, there was a flow of oil coming from the back, behind the fluid coupling. The front is staying dry.
The transmission will be dropped and I will get it soon.
Art, you are probably right: the guy who was with me told me that some seals have a steel band embedded into the lip. I will search the old seal in my garbage to confirm this theory. Anyway, the diameter is corresponding to the lip of the seal. It not really a spring steel band as I could untwist it.
As the car drove without issue for some years and suddenly a large leak appeared, something internal at the transmission was happening. What? I will have to discover it.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Quentin Hall

I had a crack in my 57 torus cover that the eye could not see. Right on the edge of the Centre weld. Took two goes to fix it, had to tig it up.
53 Eldo #319
53 Eldo #412.
53 Eldo #433
57 Biarritz
53 series 62 conv
39 Sixty Special Custom
57 Biarritz

Caddy Wizard

Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on April 28, 2023, 12:00:51 PMIt took some time to go further with that issue. This afternoon, I went under the car with running engine. To make things clearer, the closing plate at the flywheel housing was removed. At idle, there was some drip, but nothing alarming. It was a different matter when the transmission had to work: with the lever in "D" and some acceleration, there was a flow of oil coming from the back, behind the fluid coupling. The front is staying dry.
The transmission will be dropped and I will get it soon.
Art, you are probably right: the guy who was with me told me that some seals have a steel band embedded into the lip. I will search the old seal in my garbage to confirm this theory. Anyway, the diameter is corresponding to the lip of the seal. It not really a spring steel band as I could untwist it.
As the car drove without issue for some years and suddenly a large leak appeared, something internal at the transmission was happening. What? I will have to discover it.


If the leak is coming from behind the fluid coupling, it seems almost certain to be a failed front seal.
Art Gardner


1955 S60 Fleetwood sedan (now under resto -- has been in paint shop since June 2022!)
1955 S62 Coupe (future show car? 2/3 done)
1958 Eldo Seville (2/3 done)

Roger Zimmermann

Quote from: Quentin Hall on April 28, 2023, 03:57:34 PMI had a crack in my 57 torus cover that the eye could not see. Right on the edge of the Centre weld. Took two goes to fix it, had to tig it up.
This is a possibility. I did not have a good look at the hard parts when I replaced the seal.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Roger Zimmermann

Quote from: Caddy Wizard on April 28, 2023, 05:03:13 PMIf the leak is coming from behind the fluid coupling, it seems almost certain to be a failed front seal.
It was my logical thinking when I got the transmission to correct this leak. However, the front seal was not bad looking; the one I installed could certainly not leak after the engine was started and used for maybe 5 minutes. However, all is possible. The answer when I will open the beast!
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Roger Zimmermann

The transmission is back to my shop. To my dismay, I saw nothing suspect, except one thing: the black lip from the flywheel oil seal is very soft compared to the usual seals I have with the red lip. Could that seal be the culprit?
I assembled the torus cover assembly with the flywheel but me method to put some air into the assembly is not quite ideal. I should have the tool J-7073 but this tool is not suited for the 1956/57 as the hub is smaller than the 1958/64 transmissions. However taking in account how much oil came out during the test with running motor, such a large leak should be obvious even with my primitive method: some masking paper to close both small holes, a pice of rubber over the hub, pushed down with a strong ring and a hole for the air in the middle...
I don't see any crack at the flywheel housing...
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Roger Zimmermann

That damn transmission was overhauled and installed back into the car. The transmission is working very well, very soft passage 2-3. There is just an inconvenient: it was leaking.
So, this week, the transmission came back. I can replace again the seal, as I saw nothing unusual, il will be a waste of time and seal. There must be something else...
I contacted Steve Peluso; he gave me the advise to magnaflux the bowl. The inconvenient: I have to go in Germany for that...
Quentin Hall already wrote that the bowl could have a leak.
The 1959 shop manual is showing a tool to check the assembly, but, as the neck from 1956/57 is smaller, the tool could be not suitable. And how to find it is another issue! As I could not wait, I decided to make a tool. A bit different, but the same purpose.
This afternoon, I could put the bowl assembled with the flywheel under pressure. It's leaking at the neck! The other side has a very nice weld, I don't want to play with welding, so I bought locally a 1958 transmission. I will transfer the whole front to the '56 transmission, like I had on my '56 de Ville.
A long story is coming to a good end!

Tool with arrow.jpg
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Carcadillac

I have a 1957 with Jetway dual pump transmission, when its filled and running no leaks, after park it, over night quarts leak out, seems to have a few leaks, but did put a snake cam behind the torque converter/flywheel housing and majority is leaking from behind converter.  Taking it out soon to have it checked out.

Roger Zimmermann

The filler tube can be a source for leak if the tube is not perfectly round. During the drive, there is no leak but, when the engine is not running, the oil level into the transmission will rise, up to the filler tube.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Chopper1942

One of the problems of not having the correct seal drivers for seals that have a garter spring,a spring around the seal's lip to apply pressure to the seal's lip, is on installation the garter spring comes out of its place.  If this happens, you will have a massive leak. Every front pump seal I have installed has had a garter spring. In the past I had one come off the seal eventhough I used the seal drive the OE FSM called for. After that fiasco, I always verified that the garter spring was still in place after I installed the seal with the correct seal driver.