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Not so fast

Started by fishnjim, February 01, 2023, 09:34:29 AM

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I saw an article today the GM has announced a $900+M investment in next gen small block engine production.   
The EV writing on the wall isn't so legible apparently.
Do you think there might be some contentious arguments going on over there between the 2 sides at the sales meetings?
"Inertia" is the force that keeps things going in the same direction unless acted upon by an outside force.  I've made that argument before, there's something like seven fold as much invested globally in petro than renewable.  The tail doesn't wag the dog much.  That doesn't go away over night as they seek to get a return on their investments.

J. Russo

There are lots of reasons not to buy an EV. IMO, they haven't perfected them yet and the price is too high for the regular folks to buy.
John Russo


the law in CA is limited to gas only cars. Hybrids are OK. Gas engines are not dead.

TJ Hopland

Interesting that they think the small block needs another update.  Whats going on with the little engines?  Aren't those fairly new and what was supposed to be the final say in engines including the toy trucks?  I don't remember what GM called it but basically the equivalent of Fords Ecoboost. Direct injection turbo.  Must not be going well if they are going to spend money on the small block.
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

As you read in the article, the IC engines will be produced for trucks and heavy SUV's.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

TJ Hopland

Right but weren't 'we' told that the new Ecoboost (looks like its just called the L3B?) type of 4 and V6 would be all we would ever need?  Those were supposed cover pretty much everything including the casual truck people leaving the Duramax for the real working trucks.

What I have heard (mostly about the Ford but I think they are all basically using the same concepts) is that they are not long lasting engines and they are so complex they are not practical to repair/rebuild so if anything goes wrong you have to replace the whole thing.  The really small ones seem to be doing better like Mazda or VW maybe? But still are not lasting as long as previous gens of engines.    
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason

Michael Petti

I suspect GM is hedging its bets. They are supposedly developing a Hybrid platform for a new Corvette and a new "super sports car" I suspect they know today's EV's cannot fill many automotive needs (not to mention the grid problems) and they want to be ready to go when those realizations go mainstream.

TJ Hopland

Hybrids seem to have a very limited use case where they make sense otherwise you are just buying a car that can either be a compromised electric or a gas car that has to drag around a bunch of extra stuff.  I see why they tried them and I'm sure it helped learn about motors and batteries but it seems like for most people they are just not a good fit.

I don't know anyone that has had the larger ones so maybe its different there?  But with the car ones unless you happen to be in that really specific use case you can get the same or better MPG out of the latest gen cars with gas engines but like I said this is cars, not the larger SUV's and trucks which oddly I have never encountered.  I can think of over a dozen people I know that have or have had a hybrid or electric CAR in the last 5 years but nothing bigger in a hybrid. Is that just me or are there not very many out there? 
StPaul/Mpls, MN USA

73 Eldo convert w/FiTech EFI
80 Eldo Diesel
90 CDV
And other assorted stuff I keep buying for some reason


GM says that the new small block investment is to help further them eventually into the EV market somehow, but we know they need to keep a V8 for their trucks and SUV clientele especially in the commercial industry where EV's are still not practical.

Not a lot people know this, but Californians pay one of the highest KWH rates in the nation. Recently many people in SoCal have seen our electric bills skyrocket for such BS reasons. Bills literally doubling in a month without any extra use of electricity. All due to what they say is the increase of natural gas cost.

Well in San Diego, the residents here pay the highest KWH rate in the nation I believe at 37ยข an hour. So imagine having to charge an EV all night long in your home, with all of the other appliances that are plugged in and used, how much money you're having to fork out each and every month? I've heard homeowners easily paying over $1,000 a month for utilities  without much change in their electricity or gas use.

The fact is, EV's are great in certain situations and depending on where you live, but I think the automotive industry is realizing that gas powered engines are still preferable preferred when it comes to the majority of the population at the moment and which ever company decides to fully abandon the ICE market will truly be making a devastating mistake. Even here in CA, you still see far more ICE powered vehicles on the road than anything. Sure we have a fair share of Teslas and whatnot, but usually it's wealthier people that own them, and live in a house or an expensive condo complex where they have recharging stations.

But the rest of the population generally can't afford one as California has the highest poverty rate in the country.
Currently Rides:
1964 Sedan Deville
1954 Cadillac Fleetwood 60 Special
1978 Lincoln Continental
1979 Lincoln Mark V Cartier Designer Series
2007 Lexus LS 460L (extended wheelbase edition)

Previous Rides:
1987 Brougham D' Elegance
1994 Fleetwood Bro
1972 Sedan Deville
1968 Coupe Deville
1961 Lincoln Continental
1993 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series

Michael Petti

I noticed Rivian had a big lay off today. That's not due to customers lined up to buy their products with check books in hand.


In my opinion the Society as a whole is loosing it's mind. Seemingly overnight prices have doubled for new and used cars however peoples incomes have not, at least mine has not nor anyone I know of. In Dec. of 2019 I bought a 2013 Chrysler 300C with 35,000 miles for $13,500.00. It now has 70,000 miles and I have been told it is worth $17,000.00. Crazy, and if I did sell it what would I buy? A new car for $40,000.00 or another higher mileage car like I already have?. Then these Electric vehicles for what $60,000.00 nuts. I don't know where people are printing their money but I am on social security and a pension and now at age 68 back working 6 days a week in addition and I cannot afford a used car anymore. Have a nice day.
Age 68, Living in Gods waiting room ( Florida ) Owned over 40 Old Cadillac's from 1955's to 1990 Brougham's. Currently own a 1968 Cadillac DeVille Convertible.

Jim Stamper

     A few years ago a good friend adapted an electric golf cart motor and differential to his 1910 International Harvester high wheeler pickup truck. He despaired of ever finding the correct engine and transmission and he wanted to use the thing after owning it 50 years.

     The electric golf cart motor and differential were mounted up under. Chain sprockets were adapted to where the wheels used to be on the golf cart axle. Chains go from those sprockets to the original high wheel sprockets on the rear wheels. It uses three deep cycle 12 volt batteries, goes as fast as the original gas engine ever did I am sure, goes up steep hills as it has good torque, backs up and will creep along slowly if desired. He uses it around the farm to move stuff around and is a hit in parades. There is no visual indication it is electric powered. The car retains all of its brass lighting and looks like a working truck. A very inexpensive elegant solution to get a very old car back in use.  Jim Stamper CLC#13470