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1957 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz - Lots of Pictures - Restoration

Started by Biarritz Duke, April 18, 2023, 07:10:30 PM

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Biarritz Duke

Hello CLC Members,
My name is Jason and I'm the new owner of a 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz.  I have been reading through the forum the last two months and with John Emerson's help, collecting literature relevant to my car.  I am also in the process of joining the NorthStar Region CLC.  I'm looking forward to meeting folks with similar interest and learning....a lot....as I have a lot to learn.

Background:
I am relatively new to classic cars, but have a foundation of basic to start from.  My wife and I were at a national auction this past year and both fell in love with a 1957 Biarritz.  It went well above the "budget" but we were hooked and the search began.  I located our current Biarritz online from an individual seller who was selling on behalf of his Grandpa who had to move on from the car and several others, due to health reasons.  He was the second owner and has had it since the 1980s.  The grandson says he always remembers the car being a dark metallic red, but a look at the spare parts boxes and the trim tag reveals the car was originally a triple green car. 

What I'm told is that 10 years ago Grandpa tore the car down to nuts and bolts and started a restoration.  Five years into the restoration he had a stroke and stopped working on the car, it has since sat and not been running since.  The car was listed in Florida as complete and only needing the interior assembled, along with the engine air cleaner. 

We decided to purchase the car and turned the trip from MN to FL into an epic spring break road trip with our three young daughters.  The trip itself was amazing and one I certainly will never forget with stops at a bourbon distillery (Dad's Disney), Disney in Orlando (kids enjoyed this more than the distillery), Ft. Lauderdale beach, Lookout Mountain in TN, Nashville, and the St. Louis Arch.

When in Ft. Lauderdale we visited the car and finished the paperwork.  We noticed the car certainly wasn't in "interior assembly" only condition but felt it was still something we were excited about and the initial purchase price of $65K felt reasonable.  I made accommodations for Passport Transport to bring the car back to MN.  The transport turned into a bit of a saga when the pickup was delayed for a month for various reasons/excuses.  In the end, the management team at Passport was reasonable and made concessions for what was a poor planning process.

The Biarritz arrived April 17th in MN.  The reality of this project set in like an exploded tire, mostly because one of the tires did explode during the enclosed transport, but I also started seeing problems left and right.  The transport driver helped me get the car up on jacks and then Discount Tire stayed open late to get me another basic tire on to make it a roller.  Then I towed it up into the garage with a balance of my tractor and careful pushing as there are no brakes working.  Lastly I started the process of sorting through parts and trying to make sense of it all and what I'm missing.


My Take:
Many of the chrome interior/exterior pieces appear in great shape, brand new convertible top, along with a completely new interior, and the engine/transmission both initially look like they were rebuilt and painted.  The body stress crack and paint gouges look like things that came from neglect and aggressive transport from his house on a flat bed.  But I cannot figure what the Grandpa was thinking.  The points where the body meets the frame appear rusted to the point of dangerous and I have found two rusted holes in the frame near the front.  Then the hood and trunk were never adjusted correctly and have rubbed the body, removing that brand new paint job.  Why go through the headache of bodywork and paint and starting the interior without first addressing what appear to be foundational problems?  Also, the trim tag says the car was originally green, and I see old parts in the boxes that were originally green, but I cannot find a spec of green paint anywhere on the car in door jambs, behind the dash, in the doors or behind the body panels.  I only find an older version of the current dark red metallic paint.


My Vision:
I don't have the lifestyle, time or budget to make this a Grand National original level car.  For that reason I'd like to make it a very nice, reliable, and safe driver.  I have visions of taking the girls on trips to local soccer games, ice cream runs, or date nights with my wife.  My disappointment is the realization that I'm far further from those goals than anticipated.

I believe I'm missing the following parts: 
  • Hub caps
  • Knobs for the radio
  • Air cleaner for the engine (originally the single quad but I'm switching to dual quad since it's missing)
  • Trunk lining kit
  • Reverse light glass
  • Exhaust pipes routing to the rear of the car

My current plan of attack:
Locate a reliable shop in MN that can take on this car at a reasonable price within the next year.
Body/Frame/Exterior: (Cost permitting)
  • See if they can weld the body crack closed and grind smooth
  • Replace the body/frame mounts that appear rusted to the point of coming loose.
  • Repair the holes in the frame.
  • Scrape the loose undercoating and paint the underside black.
  • Determine if the wheel wells can be replaced with one-piece replacements instead of individual strips.
  • Adjust the door panels, hood, and trunk to fit a bit better.
  • The inside of the door panels have light surface rust evidence.  I need to see if that is ok or if it needs to be addressed to prevent the door panels rusting out.
  • I am going to polish the wheels to see if I can get the pitting out to prevent having to rechrome them.
  • The tires will definitely get replaced once I am further along.  I need to determine the right size and they will have white sidewalls.
  • I will need to replace the cracked windshield.
Paint:
  • I have the original paint the car was sprayed 10 years ago.  While it's certainly gone bad, I'm hoping it can be used to match.  I'm praying the body crack and miscellaneous chips can be spot sprayed to prevent repainting the entire car.

Body Chrome:
  • It looks really good and only has minor pitting in some places when looking up close.  I'm going to see if I can polish this myself and then have the shop readjust the front bumper and side valances which appear out of alignment.
  • The Eldorado and Biarritz exterior emblems are original and not in great shape.  They either need to be replaced or recoated.  Unsure which way is best.
Engine/Transmission:
  • I'm going to invest in having these pulled and checked for a possible rebuild.  I want to be sure they are sound and won't have issues.
  • I see reproduction dual quad air cleaners on ebay in black for chevy.  I'd like to get one of these and have it painted gold and a Cadillac emblem attached to go to a dual quad.  I have the dual quad manifold separately along with a second carb.  Perhaps the current single carb can be used on that dual quad setup?
  • I will need to have a new exhaust made from the mufflers back.
  • Interior:
  • I am debating having the lower dash painted white instead of red.  This will likely end up coming down to cost.
  • I would like to add the autronic eye which I have in the spare parts box.  I don't see the "brain" in the spart parts boxes though and will need to source that if it's not already on the car.  Per the trim tag I don't think it was originally a feature on the car but appears a nice feature to add.
  • The back seatback upholstery will need to be adjusted to have the curve dip to follow and the original design, along with the Cadillac emblems sourced and installed.
  • The steering wheel will need to be reconditioned or replaced and I have a backup one as well. The chrome center piece will also need to be reconditioned.
  • I need to figure out which radio is functioning and which one is better to have installed.  One of them also needs buttons. 
  • None of the HVAC controls looks to be in good shape.  One got painted and the other two have letting that is in rough shape.
  • While the interior is out, I'd love to have a vintage air kit installed to add air conditioning.  I only want to do this though if I can hide it's presence.  Either in the stock air vents, coming out the bottom of the dash pointing down or leverage the speaker box.


Help Needed:
  • Do any of you live near MN and have a shop to recommend?
  • Based on what you see, would you recommend adjusting my approach at all?
  • Do you see problems that I don't already see yet?
  • What would you do with the car?
  • Does this look like a $30K, $50K or $100K project to you?
  • What am I not thinking of that I should be?


Biarritz Duke

Interior and parts pictues

Biarritz Duke

Under body pictures

Cadillac Jack 82

Well, IDK if you're going to want to hear this but I think that although you have some good bones there...you're already into it too deep.  Your car should look like this:

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/cadillac/eldorado/2646398.html

As your car sits if you wish to do what you want to do to make it "decent" its going to run you close to your purchase price if not more.  You could just throw everything together as it stands and its going to be alright but that frame rot etc is going to be expensive to fix...unless you do it yourself.  The paint looks okay from the photos but I'm seeing a lot of plastic under the scratches which makes me wonder if theres rot in other areas.  Some missing parts aren't hard to find others will be.

If you're committed to the project then just know its going to take a lot of patience and definitely some extra $.
Tim

CLC Member #30850

1959 Cadillac CDV "Shelley"
1964 Cadillac SDV "Rosalie"
1966 Oldsmobile Toronado "Sienna"

Past Cars

1937 LaSalle Cpe
1940 Chevrolet Cpe
1941 Ford 11Y
1954 Buick 48D
1955 Cadillac CDV
1955 Packard Clipper
1957 Cadillac Series 62
1962 VW Bug
1962 Dodge 880
1966 Mercury Montclair
1967 Buick Wildcat Convertible
1968 Chevy Chevelle SS
1968 Plymouth Barracuda
1977 Lincoln MKV

Biarritz Duke

Quote from: 55 CDV Fan 82 on April 19, 2023, 01:16:43 PMWell, IDK if you're going to want to hear this but I think that although you have some good bones there...you're already into it too deep.  Your car should look like this:

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/cadillac/eldorado/2646398.html

As your car sits if you wish to do what you want to do to make it "decent" its going to run you close to your purchase price if not more.  You could just throw everything together as it stands and its going to be alright but that frame rot etc is going to be expensive to fix...unless you do it yourself.  The paint looks okay from the photos but I'm seeing a lot of plastic under the scratches which makes me wonder if theres rot in other areas.  Some missing parts aren't hard to find others will be.

If you're committed to the project then just know its going to take a lot of patience and definitely some extra $.

I looked at the $119K car from Dallas and it didn't have functional seats, nor original exterior/interior colors so I was using that one as a benchmark on evaluating this deal.  My big mistake was not seeing the rot at the body mounts, and taking his word that all the body work was done before going down there.

My concern with putting it together and having the paint fixed, is leaving the body mounts and frame in that condition does not appear safe to me.  Am I over reacting to that?  I don't want to be driving in one direction and have me and the occupants go one way and the frame go another.  I also think it'd make it hard to sell in order to break even.

If I could fix the frame mount rot, weld the crack, spot paint, put it back together and pray nothing is wrong with the engine/transmission and come in under $60K additional, then I'd be right at the price of that $119K car then I'd be comparable to that one and I'd have a newer top, functional options (assuming my seat motors are still good), and better exterior/interior chrome.  Then enjoy the car a few more years and then part with it.  My original intent was to keep it 20-30 years but I have to be honest, this is not how I envisioned this starting.  It's taking away from the luster.

Jason

Lexi

These problems are more common than one may think. Clay/Lexi

Biarritz Duke

I joined the National CLC, Northstar region and the Minnesota Street Rod Association in order to start connecting with folks who may know reliable shops in the area.  Any other tips you gentlemen who recommend to find a good place?

I'm not adverse to doing work myself, it's just the welding that is out of my league, along with paint.

Thanks,
Jason

Mike Baillargeon #15848

Oh Boy Jason !    You've got a tiger by the tail there....you can't hang on but you can't let go !

Keep us posted on your progress....

Mike
Mike
Baillargeon
#15848

James Landi

Any reliable shop will likely NOT provide you with an approximate estimate...  this is a TIME and Material project and it would be based on your "open checkbook," supporting the project on a weekly basis.  You're absolutely right to be concerned about the frame rust/ safety issues and any number of other hidden challenges that the elderly gentleman simply couldn't tackle. I suggest to you that he assembled and painted the car with all of its obvious and hidden defects because he wanted to see the car assembled--if I'm accurate, and there's no way of knowing for certain, I can personally relate to that motivation of an elderly gentleman who couldn't finish the job. I FULLY concur with the cautionary commentary that suggests to you that doing the work yourself is the sweat equity that might yield some profit for you. However, turning the car over to a shop that needs to charge over $100 an hour will quickly deplete any budget you have in mind, as that "shop" finds all kinds of mechanical challenges heretofore hidden from view. I've followed several resortations that CLC members have tackled resortations on this forum, and I urge you to read some of these threads so you can get a flavor of what is involved.    Respectfully, James

Lexi

Well said James. This project financially can go south rather quickly. Clay/Lexi

Scott Nellis

   Welcome to our club Jason. You have come to the right place to ask for advice. The members of our club are your life line here. You will find the people here friendly, helpful and understanding of your situation. Some of us have either been in a similar situation, or know someone that has. You definitely have the right attitude and agree that the main priority is safety. No one is going to "candy coat" your situation. Necessary repairs won't be cheap, but need to be done to move forward. Do what you can to save money, but don't cut corners where safety is concerned. It sounds like your goal is a "driver" quality car which sounds like exactly what I would do in your situation. None of my Cadillacs are "show" quality cars, but I get immeasurable pleasure out of driving them without the worry of a potential paint scratch. We are all looking forward to you getting this car on the road and having fun with it.
1957 Eureka Hearse
1965 Miller-Meteor Hearse
1968 Miller-Meteor Hearse
1968 Fleetwood Brougham
1970 Superior Hearse

59-in-pieces

Jason.

I have a 57 metallic silver Biarritz - black interior - black top, (not as striking as your metallic red) and although I had to warm up to its design over the years before I bought it, it's a great car.

I am really a 59 Biarritz guy, who cut his teeth on Flintstone frame off restorations.
I couldn't agree more, concentrate on the frame and sheet metal replacements/repair, before you worry about all the rest
A safe and sound chassis is for you and anyone you might sell the car to down the line.

I agree with the proposition that the chassis repairs (including the body mount issues) is a time suck = black hole of $'s, and as such requires getting estimates from as many restoration shops as you can.
And even if within your budget - add a 50% surprise factor - and time to do the work.
I would suggest that you choose a shop that specializes on such work and not a shop that does it on the side of the main stream business.  Why, because your car will languish in the back while the shop devotes its time to other more immediate fixes and keeping the doors open profits.
My first sortie into this restoration hobby, taught me this lesson, until I took control and did the work myself.

There are a lot of naysayers out there, so keep the faith and move forward with that dream that you and your wife had at the beginning of this adventure. A willing and enthusiastic partner is the added strength to get you where you want to go.

By the way, those are the best bumper ends I've seen in a long time on any 57 Biarritz.
Those are the achilleas heel to my car.

Have fun,
Steve B.
S. Butcher

David King (kz78hy)

#12
The car is a weak one.  Likely when you get into it, you will find shoddy work everywhere you go.  At least now, you know where you are and can decide to go forward, or limit your loss and find a better car. 

Since you already have it, if you could find another car with a strong body, use this one for parts and build the better car.  When done, sell the package of leftovers as a project car and be happy with what every you can recover from it.

This is probably not welcome news, but these cars are 100k plus to redo so do one that will be sound when finished.  Yours will be another 40% of cost to fabricate the body since most if it is rotten.

That is my opinion.  I'm 90% finished on a 55 Eldorado and my body was slightly better than yours and I am well north of 100k on it.
David King
CLC 22014  (life)
1958 Eldorado Brougham 615
1959 Eldorado Brougham 56- sold
1960 Eldorado Brougham 83- sold
1998 Deville d'Elegance
1955 Eldorado #277
1964 Studebaker Commander
2012 Volt
CLCMRC benefactor 197

Director and Founder, Eldorado Brougham Chapter
Past President, Motor City Region

Rare Parts brand suspension parts Retailer via Keep'em Running Automotive

Biarritz Duke

Hey Fellas,
Had to take a break from the stress of it all, and happened to aggravate some bulged discs in my neck.  In the meantime I created a PDF document of pictures to share with shops as I work to find the right partner.  I agree with several of you that are making the point that nobody should quote the work.  However, I don't agree with the "blank check" idea on something that isn't a show car.  To me that's fiscally irresponsible and unrealistic.  I will be looking for a shop with good communication about trade offs.

My second go round inspecting the car doesn't seem quite as bad.  I did the magnet test to find bondo, and the majority is 12" around the rear wheel well.  The floors have been replaced, as you can see in these new pictures.  I am curious if they were patched correctly though.

What does everyone do to remove the rust that's inside the doors? Leave it? Spray and cover to flow it down? Dip the door?

Biarritz Duke


Roger Zimmermann

Oh boy! And you paid $ 65K for that? I assume that the red paint created some blindness and you did not look the way an old car must be inspected. Sorry you could not take some friend who has more knowledge than you. You adventure reminds mine when I bought my '56 Biarritz unseen except some pictures...At least, my car was "only" about $ 10K at the actual exchange rate...
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Biarritz Duke

Quote from: Roger Zimmermann on May 01, 2023, 10:00:55 AMOh boy! And you paid $ 65K for that? I assume that the red paint created some blindness and you did not look the way an old car must be inspected. Sorry you could not take some friend who has more knowledge than you. You adventure reminds mine when I bought my '56 Biarritz unseen except some pictures...At least, my car was "only" about $ 10K at the actual exchange rate...

Thanks Roger, those were insightful and helpful comments.  I work with a guy who sounds like you and he's Dutch. 

Roger Zimmermann

But you did not hear my voice! If you can find a person who is willing to tackle or help for that job, you will be saved. Giving that poor car to a body shop will costs you a fortune...
I restored the Biarritz mostly myself, with a man at first for the welding process and I'm above 100K as expensed. as I began about 30 years ago, prices were lower then. But importing parts from the US did cost a fortune in shipping and customs. However, the car is not ready since some years.

DSC02879.JPG
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

59-in-pieces

Ruger,

Your comment about the $65K were as harsh as I have ever seen you write.
But, it's probably best he did not hear the tone in which they were delivered - regardless of how true they were - they did need to be said - and the truth often times hurts - and is hard to swallow.
Enough platitudes.

I could not agree with you more, when you noted you conscripted a buddy into helping you, especially with the welding - presumably with the chassis and where the skill is really needed, the  body panel work.

A man - me - needs to know his limitations (unless he has a big wallet) and seek the kindness of friends - but in Jason's case, after all the work is completed, may fade to a strangers.

Have fun,
Steve B.

S. Butcher

dn010

I would imagine a lot of us have been in this same situation, whether it be because one is "new" to the classic car game and have no idea what to look for, or because the overall exterior look of a vehicle has blinded us from other defects, or so on. In all my cars, both instances have happened to me long ago. I remember one car in particular that looked good, I liked the lines, it was a 1961 other brand with huge fins which I thought was great so I bought the car and it ended up being a nightmare - ran great parked but died any time I tried to go up any sort of incline, brakes ended up being a mess, floors and bits of the underbody rusted out but you couldn't tell upon quick glance due to all the undercoating that was sprayed to conceal the damage, among other issues.

Second car was a rarer one and I had no idea what to look for, no idea what common problems were, and I ended up spending twice the amount the car was worth at the time to bring it up to par, partly due to my own stupidity driving it year round, in upstate New York (salty winter roads).

Even my dad got burnt. Car he wanted looked great, exactly what he was looking for and had minimal problems at a glance...until it was bought, paid for and then up on a lift. It was a convertible with non-existent torque boxes because they were rusted away, we learned the convertible top was not installed correctly, the air vent cowl had a rust hole leaving water on the floor any rain storm, and so on.

It is sometimes a difficult pill to swallow being called out for not getting an inspection, not having someone look it over and all that but in the end, that is what kept us going - my dad still has his convertible, I still have my car (sold the one with the fins after I restored it due to moving to Florida), and we love our cars and each have many memories. I wouldn't change a thing. You are not alone, and I hope you keep going on your car - one day you'll be typing someone else your story when they too have made a decision that might not be viewed as the best to others.

Edit: As a side note, I don't believe Roger's comment was intended to be negative. I translated it as he has made the same error in judgement and is trying to also say, keep with it as he did. With the right people and help, you'll get there.
-----Dan Benedek
'57 Cadillac Sedan Deville 6239DX
'81 DMC DeLorean