Hello ,
I purchased an Authentic Right Hand Mirror for my 1970 Coupe DeVille.This Mirror has the two holes in the base for the allen wrench . When i first mounted the mirror i thought it might have the wrong Pedestal because the right hand mirror was not parallel to the ground like the left hand mirror .i can fit two of my fingers between the left ( Drivers side ) hand mirror and the A pillar moulding. On the right the mirror is much closer maybe a little more then one finger . i looked up pictures ( Front Veiw ) of 1970 / 69 cadillacs with both mirrors . To my suprize the right hand mirror on every car that showed both mirrors the right han mirror was noticeably much closer . i have added some pictures of the cars that i found on the internet . I have also added a few of my car ( Byzantine Gold ) i am leaning towards that is the way it should look . Any opoinions would be appreciated .
Bill
Could it be that you actually have a mirror for the '70 Eldorado?
Plus, the Right Hand Mirror was one of those Dealer-fitted options, unlike the Left Mirror which all cars had standard by law.
The cars may have been delivered to the initial owner with no Right Mirror, then the Second owner may have wanted one, and the fitter wasn't too careful in following instructions?
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on June 25, 2022, 08:09:17 PMCould it be that you actually have a mirror for the '70 Eldorado?
Plus, the Right Hand Mirror was one of those Dealer-fitted options, unlike the Left Mirror which all cars had standard by law.
The cars may have been delivered to the initial owner with no Right Mirror, then the Second owner may have wanted one, and the fitter wasn't too careful in following instructions?
Bruce. >:D
That could be true . But every 70 Cadillac I can find with both mirrors the right is always closer . That is why I am posting the question .
I be also installed with the type of hardware they were Designed to use . So I could use the Allen wrench .The holes are mounted on 2.180 centers (2 3/16 ) drilled out to .260 Diameter . Everything is mounted symmetrical. However the pedestals are not quite the same . Again I am not sure if this is correct or not . I know this was a dealer installed item . Is it right or os it wrong ?
The bottom line is it right or is it wrong ? If it right I will leave it that way . If it's wrong I want to
Make it right .
It could be right but I would of thought cadillac would want symmetrical mirrors on both sides.
Bill
Look
At the limousine as they were standard with them and see if they were symmetrical?
Not sure what those fastenings are as I have never seen them before.
I would have thought that the Factory would have used the same system of fastening the Left and Right Mirrors to the doors. But, if the Right Mirror is attached to the door by an externally-mounted bracket, then I would have thought that simple NutSerts would be the best.
1971 they used nuts onto threads that were built-in to the mirror base, with a strengthening flange on the inside of the door skin.
As for having symmetrical mountings for Left and Right, Cadillac tried that in 1959 and '60, and the opposite mirror turned out to be a total waste of time, as it was useless as a viewing aid.
What does the Shop Manual say?
Bruce. >:D
Hello Bill
You are correct in believing Cadillac would have both door mirrors horizontal. I've checked my pictures and my Father's '70 Coupe deVille (then three years old) had the passenger door mirror, they are 100% horizontal.
Have you got the part number of the mirror you have fitted? Maybe it an Eldorado version?
Yes again those odd fasteners only applied to the early passenger door mirrors.
Paul
Quote from: Seville Life on June 26, 2022, 03:44:57 AMHello Bill
You are correct in believing Cadillac would have both door mirrors horizontal. I've checked my pictures and my Father's '70 Coupe deVille (then three years old) had the passenger door mirror, they are 100% horizontal.
Have you got the part number of the mirror you have fitted? Maybe it an Eldorado version?
Yes again those odd fasteners only applied to the early passenger door mirrors.
Paul
Hello Paul , that is a very good question . There is a part number inside the mirror pedestal . I will have to take the mirror off to find out the number . If I have time I will do this morning . Thank you very much for the suggestion .
Bill
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on June 26, 2022, 12:38:12 AMNot sure what those fastenings are as I have never seen them before.
I would have thought that the Factory would have used the same system of fastening the Left and Right Mirrors to the doors. But, if the Right Mirror is attached to the door by an externally-mounted bracket, then I would have thought that simple NutSerts would be the best.
1971 they used nuts onto threads that were built-in to the mirror base, with a strengthening flange on the inside of the door skin.
As for having symmetrical mountings for Left and Right, Cadillac tried that in 1959 and '60, and the opposite mirror turned out to be a total waste of time, as it was useless as a viewing aid.
What does the Shop Manual say?
Bruce. >:D
Bruce , It is my understanding that the dealer installed mirror used a template and drilled thru the outter skin so they would not have to remove the inside door panel .
The installer would drill into the door with two size drill bits. One being a little over 9/16 ( .593 ) and another hole next to it 15/32 ( .265 ) and then turn that into what looks like a keyhole . install the mirror into the big hole and slide forward . Then tighten the mirror using the fastener . That is what the two access holes are for that are in the authentic right hand mirror bass . It is not an easy task drilling a .563 hole into a car door that is on a angle then filing a the keyhole shape . I found it easier to remove the door panel drill the holes (,265 ) a little bigger the a 1/4 inch and installing that way. I could of used two 1/4 -28 studs with a washer and a nut . But i was able to make something using a highlock fastener and a spacer so i could use the allen wrench 3/32 and install it using the holes in the base of the mirror .i will add some pictures in a few minutes .
Can anybody tell me what Cadillac part number this is for 60302-415 also the template number is 60303-410
I need to get to the bottom of this . If this mirror proves out to be correct for a 1970 Coupe DeVille I will but it back on the car and not give it another thought . I just need to know for sure .
Thank you ,
Bill
Bruce the hardware came with the mirror and template . The dealer had to cut that shape into the outer skin of the door. Not an easy thing to do they must've had a router for this because they did not want to remove the inside door panel. They would drop The fasteners into the big hole and slid forward . I did not need to do this because I drilled two hole and installed the fasteners through the back.
And the passenger side door panel is the easy one to remove. I have added a picture of what the fastener looks like. The way you tighten the mirror to the car is through the holes that allow an Allen wrench to turn the fasteners tight. I added a few pictures for clarity.AA8EC33B-E3FA-4C19-9489-6A4DFD3DFDE1.jpeg
G'day Bill,
Thanks for the pictures. Now I understand how they work.
Having the screw hex visible from the outside of the car, I am thinking that there must have been two mirrors available for the Right side. The Original one, without the holes, but having in-built threads for attaching nuts inside the door, and the one shown, with the holes.
But, looking at the rubber gasket, the shaping does not look like it is that good of a quality for a Cadillac part. Looks like a cheap cut-out as it doesn't have the clean, crisp lines than one would expect from a Cadillac part.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on June 26, 2022, 06:16:04 PM------------
But, looking at the rubber gasket, the shaping does not look like it is that good of a quality for a Cadillac part. Looks like a cheap cut-out as it doesn't have the clean, crisp lines than one would expect from a Cadillac part.
Bruce. >:D
Agree, and in another of Bill's posts I replied that the part numbers he listed do not look like GM numbers, at least not from that era. Could very well be an aftermarket mirror. Would also think the instruction sheet would say "GM" on it somewhere.
Hello Bruce ,
I did not have a rubber gasket .I made that myself .And Thanks for the compliment , just kidding .i feel something is not right with this pedesatal . i have got to get to the bottom of this .
Thank You Bruce,
Bill
I have the wrong RH mirror on our 70. I took some thick rubber and beveled it to make a thick rubber wedge shaped gasket. Mirror is level now. You don't really notice it.
Jeff R.
Hello Jeff ,
Where did you get the right hand mirror ?
Bill
Quote from: Bill Balkie 24172 on June 27, 2022, 08:58:42 AMHello Jeff ,
Where did you get the right hand mirror ?
Bill
Ebay years ago. It is wrong but I didn't notice that until I had already drilled the holes.
After a brief panic, I made the beveled gasket. You can't really notice it unless you are looking for it.IMG_20160806_081500736.jpg
Guys,
Lots of RH mirror "experts" & WAGs. LOL!!
Bill, where did you get your mirror?? NOS or used? I assume you did not get the original gasket or mounting instructions?
Bob
Bob , I got it from a very Reliable source a person that has been dealing in 70 Cadillacs probably for the last 50 years. He is in my opinion one of the most knowledgeable people.
Bob , Can you shed any more light on the right hand mirror I'm always willing to listen.
Bill
Hi Bill,
Thanks for responding. However, did you get the gasket & instruction sheets?? Did you get the correct attaching screws?
Bob
Hello Bob , I did not buy a new aftermarket Mirror . I made my own gasket and as far as the hardware goes I could of used two 1/4-28 studs with nuts . However the mount had the original 3/32 access for the Allen wrenchl . So I used my imagination and used two Hi - fasteners (titanium) that had the Allen set screws in the one end . However I had to use two spacers and it worked out fine . I am justConcerned about the mirrors being symmetrical. And they are not . However ever 1970 / 69 I can find on the internet are not symmetrical. The gasket is The least of my problems. And he had a copy of the mounting instructions or template .The question is do I have the right mirror or do I not .
I'll add a picture of the fasteners .
Ah ha. .... The plot thickens.
No wonder I had never heard of those odd fastenings.
Using the bolts without the locking sleeve will work just as well, as when the heads are under the sheet metal, and tightened up, they will not need the locking sleeve.
One thing that I would have changed with the mounting instructions would be is having the holes turned the other way, so that the leading ends are to the front of vehicle, so that if the mirror ever came loose, the wind pressure could never force the mirror rearwards, allowing it to fall off.
Bruce. >:D
That is a very good point Bruce .
I had a correct dealer add on right side mirror put on when The Ark was in the shop last winter.
The mirror is correct, got it from Charles Fares (RIP). Shop was supplied with the correct
diagram shown in a previous post. For some reason the diagram was not used, I forgot the excuse.
The gasket 'broke' so the shop prefabbed another. As you can see the mirror is pitched 'funny' due
to the gasket. The mirror as it is helps "a little" with seeing highway traffic on the right, its a hint,
still recommend turning your body for a good look. This is on the list of things to fix when The Ark goes
into Hyannis Vintage Auto this winter.
Hello Laurie,
If at all possible can you provide me with a picture of your mirror's taken from the front of your car showing both mirrors . If you purchased it from Charles it was correct for sure . He was a great and always helping out whenever he could . I sure do miss him . He could explain complex details over the phone like he was showing you a picture .
Thank you very much ,
Bill
Here you go. As you can see, the right mirror is on a weird angle, guess the shop couldn't see that when they did it. Its the gasket they made. Hyannis will fix it this winter when the cars goes to them.
Thank you Laurie ,
Your mirror is much like every other mirror that I looked at. And if you said you picked it up from Charles you know it's authentic . Your car is beautiful .
Thank you for your time ,
Bill
Bill,
Here are a couple of pictures of my 70 Fleetwood. I believe the RH mirror was installed by the dealer. As you can see it shows the same angle as all other pictures you have posted so at this point I would have to think this is normal. On a side note my RH mirror is locked into position so I can't adjust it. I don't want to push too hard and break the glass. Do your instructions say how to adjust?
KurtDriver.jpgPass.jpg
Hello Kurt ,
Your Mirror looks exactly like the one that is on my car and Laurie's .Thank you so much for sharing . It makes me feel 100 percent sure that the mirror is correct . As far as the adjustment . Mine moves in all direction but you need to apply a little force . Once it is set in keeps its position .
Kurt it is suppose to be tight . But if your are afraid
Of breaking the glass maybe a little shot of W D 40 with the extension on the Nozzle behind the glass. Thanks again for your input .
Bill
Bill thank you and you're welcome, hope it was helpful.
Kurt that mirror was designed to be positioned laterally/left to right by hand.
If you've never tried to move it, and it doesn't want to budge, I'd leave it alone, MHO.
I was able to get mine to move outwards more.
I would not be attempting to spray anything up behind the mirror to free up the clamping part, as if it loosens up, it will always move at the larger potholes.
Plus, any liquid that doesn't fall out will create a grit and dust retainment.
The only way to clean out the back where you cannot get to would require spraying with a "solvent/cleaner" like Brakleen so as to not leave any residue.
Bruce. >:D
I hope this helps. On my 70 convertible the right and left mirror are close. Looks like the right mirror pitches a little to the window.IMG_2661.jpg
With all these mirror pictures, I see that the Right Mirror has exposed threads for attaching, but I am pretty sure that the Left Mirror would be unthreaded, as in having the mirror retained by nuts from inside the door.
My question is, has anyone with a factory-fitted Right Mirror fitted to their car, does yours show the threads from the outside?
Could it be that there are two mirrors for the Right side? The hidden fastening for factory fitting, and the exposed fastening for dealer fitting. I find it hard to believe that Cadillac would fit from the factory, a seemingly inferior product.
Bruce. >:D
If by exposed threads you mean the two holes in the mirror base? Yes, my Father's '70 Coupe deVille had a right-hand mirror, factory fitted and it had the two holes in the mirror base.
The '69/'70 right-hand door mirrors are the only ones like this I think, the mirror glass is in a friction ball/socket assembly. Later, '71 onwards they were cable operated. Paul
Hi Bill,
Where did you get those fasteners from? I'd like to buy some.
From what I can see, and the way the mirrors fasten, there is really no need for the sleeve, as the bolt is retained in the mirror base, and then the mirror is slid into position, then tightened.
The only time these sleeves would work, is if there are only holes, with no slot, as there would be nothing to stop the bolts from falling back down the holes whilst the mirrors are being attached. Then a simple "C" Clip small enough to grip the bolt thread would do the same thing.
Bruce. >:D