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Another Body shop story

Started by 60eldo, September 20, 2019, 08:25:41 PM

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60eldo

  So I had the owner of a body shop here come to my house and look at my 60 eldo, paint, new floors, told me 7,000$. 2 weeks go by and Ive taken out the interior and lot of stainless. So today I went to see him  at his shop and said hey you might want to come over and see all the work Ive done and talk.  He said no I dont need to see it, we said $15,000 right?  I was in shock. I said No you said $7,000, he said OK lets say $15,000,,, then he said its just like doing a reno in a basement, you never know what you ll find, so plan on a $20,000 budget.   I think Im going to part this thing out,       IM     SO   ,,,,,,,
Jon. Klu

67_Eldo

In my experience, body shop folks do NOT want to work on big old cars. No matter what they estimate, they will (genuinely) find some spot they didn't allocate time for in the estimate and the price goes up unexpectedly. The body-shop guy looks bad and the customer is mad. It's a lose-lose situation.

I was just quoted a "minimum" of $7k to paint my 67 Eldorado. By "minimum," the shop meant that I remove *all* chrome -- including bumpers, taillights, stainless trim, little "ELDORADO" lettering, wheel well trim, etc -- before I bring it to the shop. If they have to do *any* prep work, the price goes up. No fancy paint (e.g. metal-flake or pearl or matte) for that price, either. And this is from the shop that worked on the car before and charges the lowest hourly rate I can find.

To be honest, $15k for your car isn't a high price (if the shop does good work). I bet it would take a (good) pro one month of full-time labor to get your car approximately where you want it (that is, with the body straight but all the pieces remaining for you to assemble). That's about 160 hours at $100/hr. And paint (along with all the latest environmental regulations associated with painting) ain't cheap either.

You won't find too many (decent) body shops that will charge "only" $100/hr anymore. The average is closer to $120/hour these days (here in Kansas).

Good luck!

Bobby B

That car needs more than $15K in  bodywork/ paint alone. Especially if it's done to a High Standard. LOTS of Hours in Prep, and Prep it what defines the outcome. Good Luck!
                                           Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

"Cadillac Kid" Greg Surfas 15364

I'm with Bobby.  If I was a body shop operator and I looked at your car, a high estimate or budget would be the only equitable way for a shop to start on it.
Greg Surfas
Cadillac Kid-Greg Surfas
Director Modified Chapter CLC
CLC #15364
66 Coupe deVille (now gone to the UK)
72 Eldo Cpe  (now cruising the sands in Quatar)
73 Coupe deVille
75 Coupe deElegance
76 Coupe deVille
79 Coupe de ville with "Paris" (pick up) option and 472 motor
514 inch motor now in '73-

76eldo

Jon,

If you still have my phone number please call me.

I do not want to deal with any project cars and I am bailing on my 60 Seville.  The drivetrain is now bolted in it to it may be a better time for us to talk.

BR
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

60eldo

#5
  Brian I appreciate what your saying. But right now I have 16,000 in my 60 deville, maybe I should sell it.  I have 16,000 in this one, so Im kind tapped out. But the reason I bought this one is the color. I just dont know what to do right now. You can call me 905 706 2747
Jon. Klu

76eldo

I agree with the posts above.  No shop that I know of would do the bodywork and paint for $7500.00 on a 60 Seville unless it's dead straight and has no rust, basically scuff and shoot but that type of car does not exist.  I got a little scrape on the front fender of my 71 Eldo and the repair estimate and the amount that Hagerty is paying is $2200.00.  That's one fender! 

You picked an expensive car to mess with.  I doubt is $15,000 would even cover it.

I know that I can sell my car on ebay so I will get some new photos of it's current condition and list it with a reserrve that I can live with.  I am too busy at work and have virtually no spare time to even drive my other cars let alone spend my time working on one.  Looks like I am done with all of that.

Good luck with yours.  Remember, you can take your time, do as much as you can do yourself, but don't sell your other one.  Once a body shop gets your Seville you won't get it back for at least a year or two, maybe longer.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Mike Josephic CLC #3877

#7
I have to agree with Bobby and Greg -- that car will
take a lot more than $15k to bring it up even to a #2
level.  Too much rust.

Body shops like quick in-and-out collision work.  That
pays the bills and gives them a more predictable cash
flow.  A large car like yours taking up space for months
is a project they don't need.

That's why restoration shops charge so much.  That's
also why no restoration shop will never give you a firm
quote.  Too many unknowns once you get the car down
to bare metal.  It's strictly a pay as you go situation until
it's done.

This is at least a $50k "paint job" if you want it done
properly.  If you don't have the funds to handle that
then I suggest bail out now before you get in any deeper.

Mike
1955 Cadillac Eldorado
1973 Cadillac Eldorado
1995 Cadillac Seville
2004 Escalade
1997 GMC Suburban 4X4, 454 engine, 3/4 ton
custom built by Santa Fe in Evansville, IN
2011 Buick Lucerne CX
-------------------------------------
CLCMRC Museum Benefactor #38
Past: VP International Affiliates, Museum Board Director, President / Director Pittsburgh Region

rwchatham CLC 21892

#8
Jon like the guys are posting there is at least 50k in paint and body doing all the metal work on that car , if you’re not prepared to invest 100k plus into restoring it then don’t spend another dollar on the car .  Nobody is trying to be a Debbie downer or bust your dream it’s just reality , If you’re not prepared for a huge investment move on and even if you lose a few bucks now that will be a lot less painful that being in it 50-60 k and being only half way done . Sometimes a small loss is a whole lot better then something that can get out of hand real quick ! 
R. Waligora

60eldo

#9
  Thanks for that. The car needs a roof too and I found a nice one for  $500 bucks. I really dont want to do that to the car. Start hacking it. Then I found 2 rear 1/4s,,,more hacking. So here are my thoughts. Maybe I should go real slow. Take it into a shop and just do the floor. I bought 4 pans.  Just do the floor for now, and go from there.  Hey the trunk is good,,,LOL
Jon. Klu

rwchatham CLC 21892

It’s a shame , it would be a beautiful car in that color when finished , probably my favorite color if I was going to do another 60 . It’s just that with today’s cost to do a Resto on a car in that condition ,unless a guy has deep pockets and doesn’t care about the cost it just doesn’t make any sense to do it financially . It’s basically impossible for anybody regardless of their skill set to restore a rough car like and not lose half the money they spent on a restoration  With today’s costs I have a rule to do any more restorations , if a car isn’t going to be worth 200k minimum after it’s restored it’s just not worth doing financially. Emotionally is a whole different ballgame but financially it makes no sense.
R. Waligora

chrisntam

These are BIG cars with lots of ACREAGE, which means lots of time.

:(

Next club I join is going to the the MG club, and I'll buy an MG Midget.

;)
1970 Deville Convertible 
Dallas, Texas

76eldo

Maybe you could use your existing coupe as a donor body for the eldo.
You could part out all of the Coupe stuff you don’t need. You could fill the holes for the side molding on the Coupe and your eldo would be a life sized template for all of the holes needed for the eldo side trim.
It’s a ton of work but it’s stuff you could do.
Swapping a roof and two quarters is a huge job and will cost a fortune.

So you would end up with a Coupe with Eldo trim. Wouldn’t be the first one I’m sure.
Just mix and match. If your Eldo frame is good you could swap the bodies.
Might sound crazy but if you have the time and space you could try this.
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

Roger Zimmermann

Quote from: 60eldo on September 20, 2019, 08:25:41 PM
  So I had the owner of a body shop here come to my house and look at my 60 eldo, paint, new floors, told me 7,000$.
He had dark glasses to make such an offer. This would be the price for painting the car without sheet metal repair.
1956 Sedan de Ville (sold)
1956 Eldorado Biarritz
1957 Eldorado Brougham (sold)
1972 Coupe de Ville
2011 DTS
CLCMRC benefactor #101

Chuck Patton

#14
As an Appraiser from your pictures I see north of 100k to do your 6437H. This includes paint, interior, glass, rubber, drivetrain, electrical, trim, tires and wheel covers.
I recommend that you:
(1) Sell your cars
(2) Buy Brian's Seville

If you do not swim in the correct direction NOW you will drown.
Appraiser-Broker-Consultant
Past CLC National Board Director
Past CLCMRC Director
Past CLC Motor City Region President
CLC 1959-60 Cadillac Chapter Director
CLC Life Member #23147

G Pennington

I had a reputable restoration/street rod shop quote me $35K to repaint my '41 convertible.  This car was the recipient of a frame-off restoration 30 years ago, so no metal work / rust removal involved (car was finished with multiple coats of lacquer which has crazed (cracked), necessitating removal of all old paint).  The quote was for exterior surfaces only, and with me removing all chrome and trim beforehand.
Just going from your pictures, your Eldo is going to be twice as much work.  So $50K dosn't sound like too much.  And $20K would be a bargain!
Unfortunatly it's real easy to get upside down  on these cars, even a high value car like a '60 Eldo.  Most of the cost is labor.  Have you thought about tackling the job yourself?
Gary Pennington
   1953 6267X Convertible
   1941 6267D Convertible (2 door)

Jay Friedman

I worked for 1½ years in a restoration shop after retiring from my day job in '03.  One day a guy brought in on a trailer a '60 Ford Starliner which laid around his property for years and which he said he wanted restored.  It's condition was similar to your Eldo.  The shop owner didn't want to touch it, but the guy's wife was a friend of his wife and she told a sad tale about how it was the car in which they first dated when young, etc.  The shop owner finally consented with no estimate. 

Me and a co-worker started taking it apart and it became quickly apparent that $50K would be a minimum to do the job.  The plot thickened when the shop owner saw an ad in Hemmings for an identical '60 Ford Starliner in excellent running condition for only $10K or so.  It was only 200 miles away and the only difference was its body color was white, while the car in the shop was black.  They both even had the same blue interior.  The shop owner proposed to the car owner that he buy that car, that we'd paint it black for 5K or so and everybody would be happy.  The car owner refused and we stopped working on the car.  Thankfully, the guy and his wife lost interest and took it away.

1949 Cadillac 6107 Club Coupe
1932 Ford V8 Phaeton (restored, not a rod).  Sold
Decatur, Georgia
CLC # 3210, since 1984
"If it won't work, get a bigger hammer."

Jeff Wilk

Unfortunately I agree with what all of you have said. I’m working on a ‘33 Phaeton right now (Chevy) and even that without a roof and without any rot issues is looking like a $20,000 paint job + around $6,000 in paint/etc. As a result I may learn to paint myself!!!

This has really become a “rich mans” hobby and that’s too bad. I got into it back in the late ‘70’s with buying 5 ‘58 Cadillacs and parted them out then buying my ‘59 Fleetwood for $1,250!  Rust free Arizona car. I had the roof repainted  on that 5 years ago at $3,000!

This is not good but the “trades” somewhere along the way became jobs nobody wanted and now there are so many unfilled jobs that businesses can’t fill. So even basic knowledge labor rates are over $100/hour and true craftsman can be double that!  Honestly, if you cant do the mechanical and body work on these cars yourself you’re upside down before you even start. Very sad.

And lets not start on the price of chrome work or even basic stainless steel polishing.....

I think a real issue for Jon now is how to even get out from underneath this pit now that he’s done all this disassembly already and uncovered the major metal issues.....

I wholeheartedly agree that Brians car offers a far far better option and Jon would still be ahead of the game.
"Impossible Only Describes The Degree Of Difficulty" 

Southern New Jersey

1959 Cadillac Fleetwood Sixty Special
1975 Eldorado Convertible (#12 made)
1933 Phaeton Chevrolet - "Baby Cadillac"
1933 Master Sedan Chevrolet - "Baby Cadillac"

SOLD
1976 Cadillac Mirage (factory authorized Pick-Up)
1958 Cadillac Sixty-Special
1958 Cadillac Sixty-Special
1958 Cadillac Sedan
1958 Cadillac Coupe Deville

60eldo

#18
The only good about this car is the frame and engine is matching #s.  Its very complete, tri-power, air breather, criuse control, P trunk, PW,PL, A/C, all stainless trim is there and 4 eldo hub caps.
Jon. Klu

cadillac ken

I've been quoted $6000 to rechrome my 1937 Series sixty grill and the left and right hood side panel inserts-- and these parts a VERY nice with no pitting anywhere. 

You can easily imagine what the chrome bill alone would be for your car.

As a Restoration shop owner for near 30 years now I agree with all those here with their assessment of your project Eldo.  Your car will cost over $100K to do.  My ballpark estimate is right in line with others who estimate your car's rust repair, bodywork, and paint alone at over $50k.  Probably well over that considering floors, rockers, misc tabs, inner pieces and panels not available and needing to be fabricated for structural integrity.

Not to be a wise guy, BUT... why or why didn't you get (even pay) a qualified resto shop to look at the car BEFORE the decision to purchase was made.

As a shop owner for over 30 years I've probably talked customers out of doing more cars than I actually have done.   ;D