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Another Body shop story

Started by 60eldo, September 20, 2019, 08:25:41 PM

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Bobby B

Quote from: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 22, 2019, 08:45:58 AM
2500 doesn’t even cover the cost of quality materials to do a proper paint job . Is this guys name Earl Scheib by any chance ? 😂

Absolutely....My best friend owns a shop that does work for Pebble, Amelia, Gooding, etc. There's just no way...And if it's any shade of red, almost double it. If you're shooting a high end product like Glasurit, etc., there's no way you're stripping and painting a car for that kind of money. Nice paint jobs could go 20K plus  depending on the amount of work, and we're not talking rust repair yet. On top of that, most Cadillacs are twice as big as any other car. A friend of mine just paid 12k to paint an MGB and he thought that was a deal, because the shop owner used it as filler when they were slow. Most cars with some panel/ metal work, rust repair, and paint, wind up in the 50K range when you're done. You're fooling yourself if you expect high quality work at a bargain price. You usually get what you pay for, and for $2500.00 you'll probably be able to surf down the side of the car......
                                                                                                                                                       Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

Scot Minesinger

I had a 1968 Eldo trunk resprayed for $25.00.  How?, I bought the rattle cans of close matching paint at a parts store and did it myself.  The customer had a rear end collision and he supplied a green trunk on his white Eldo.  To make this temporary situation less painful, I sprayed the green trunk white in about ten minutes.  That way from 100' away people would not see it.  This way he can take a few months to shop a good paint job, which will be every bit of $10,000

You get what you pay for, no body shop is going to repaint a car for a couple hundred dollars and exist to remain in business paying insurance, rent, and earn a profit to live on.  If there were $200 quality repaint shops out there, every one would get their car re-painted every year instead of detailing it.

Back to the 1960 Cadillac, yes money will be lost on this, and for hobby cars there are very few deals out there.  A car this far rusted is probably best scrapped after all the good parts are removed.  You can make a Seville out of the coupe with the good body, I probably would do that.  In so doing, it will just make your Coupe nicer looking, not near Seville money.  And accordingly I would only do the visual things such as the stainless trim, interior (if Coupe interior needs replacement), and the tri-carb set up, and ad ac if it does not already have it.

In 2005 the former owner of my 1970 red DVC paid 9k for a new paint job over a rust and dent free body.  The paint job has a few chips on the hood from highway driving, but after 14 years and 45k miles it still looks wonderful.  7k for all that rust repair and body work - crazy low.

Many people better than all of us on the forum combined have tried to buy that fixer up car for low cost, restore it, and own a car worth more than they have in it - and no one has succeeded (unless someone was taken advantage of along the way).  As true as the way to make money in stocks is buy low and sell high, the most economical purchase of a classic car is to buy the best you can afford.

Best of luck in your resolution.
Fairfax Station, VA  22039 (Washington DC Sub)
1970 Cadillac DeVille Convertible
1970 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1970 four door Convertible w/Cadillac Warranty

67_Eldo

The amount of agonizing over a paint job is proportional to your Grand Car Plan.

If you're intending to park your prized possession in the Louvre (and you've got a big, fat wallet), then ante up thousands of $$$ … just for paint. Add tens of thousands of $$$ for prep work and a few thousand $$$ just for the labor to apply the paint (and clear coat and clean up and reassembly).

However, if you just want to get a car from (unintended) multiple colors to a single color and drive it for a few years, you might be OK with a MAACO job.

This guy got his ex-police Crown Vic MAACO-ized and he's happy -- https://youtu.be/V4j2aJIxppI

In my case, I've got waaaaaaay more than $16k invested -- both in $$$ and in my own labor -- in the Eldorado. Admittedly, I'm one of those guys who likes to work on cars, but there is a limit. After three years, maybe I'm at that limit? So I'm thinking that a MAACO job might, at least, seal up the work that's been done (protecting the new primer from UV deterioration), get the car all one color again, and look OK from 10 feet. Or maybe I'll give it a paint job it myself?

If the paint lasts only three years, that's fine because I'm going to continue working on the other areas (interior and electronics) and a cheap paint job will alleviate my paint worries for that stretch of time.

In other words, my car is my Experiment. It will continue to change over time. As it changes, I won't be afraid to drive it because I might scratch the paint.

So there ya go. If you're completely invested in "doing it right," make friends with your local banker. But if you're more realistic about your vehicle's present condition and short-term future, then maybe you can "get what you need" and get on with life.

cadillac ken

Quote from: Rockfish39 on September 21, 2019, 11:05:24 AM
Every single person on this forum NEEDS to listen to Ken Caskey !!!!
He, for sure, knows exactly what he is talking about, being the owner/operator of Kid Darrin in Melbourne, FLA. Which, a shop like his, may be blasphemous to some, but NOT to ME... Ken also frequently writes for a local publication here called Mike Kelly's Cruise News, which I have always enjoyed reading his articles...  Look it up on Google, it's easy to find. Like: the top ten things that tell the world you're a car guy, for example??  Nice to see you here Ken

Rock  8)

Thank you Rock for the kind words.  ;)

hornetball

Quote from: 67_Eldo on September 22, 2019, 10:26:25 AMIf the paint lasts only three years, that's fine because I'm going to continue working on the other areas (interior and electronics) and a cheap paint job will alleviate my paint worries for that stretch of time.

Valid point.  Just consider that the cheap paint job will need to be stripped off before a quality paint job is applied.

BTW, my $5K price for paint is not all-inclusive.  In addition to the car starting without rust or dents, I delivered it to the body shop completely de-trimmed with interior pulled.  When I get it back, I still have a lot of re-assembly work ahead of me (work that I wouldn't entrust to a body shop anyway as this is the area where they always take shortcuts).  I also didn't include the money spent to straighten and polish trim pieces.  For a body/restoration shop to do all that work would easily exceed $10K even in my low-cost area.  Also, note that you don't have to paint the roof on a convertible.

I specifically don't pay for a "show-quality" cut-and-buff after a paint job.  In my experience, for a driver that I want to last a long time, leaving the as-sprayed finish (like factory) is the way to go.  This is based upon owning cars finished both ways.

Your car, your money, your goals, your preferences.

67_Eldo

Quote from: hornetball on September 22, 2019, 11:31:28 AMJust consider that the cheap paint job will need to be stripped off before a quality paint job is applied.
I've already considered it. :-)

As I said, the low-$ paint job primarily gives me protection from UV radiation and further rust. If there's more paint to remove, that's OK because I've already straightened out the problematic bits so I know that nothing bad will happen out of sight.

And a 67 Eldorado looks so good that even now in its "rat-rod" phase people come up to me in parking lots, pause, and say, "That's a *damn* beautiful car." So I'm not worried about casual passers by picking nits about tiny flaws in low-budget paint.

60eldo

   So just to fill you guys in. Ive been looking for a white or sienna rose eldorado for about 2 yrs and nothing.  But one day a white coupe deville came up and didnt look bad so I bought it, settling. Then about a year later this eldo came up on ebay and was just listed maybe an hour. So I got really excited, didnt look at the car and didnt send anyone to. THAT WAS STUPID. But I felt I had to act fast or loose it. So I phone the owner and asked what he wanted, I thought 12,000 wasnt bad, so did bought it. I have no patience, been like that all my life. I mean Im in Toronto and its not like I could just fly there in an hr. I took a chance, rolled the dice , and lost.
Jon. Klu

rwchatham CLC 21892

Jon , you had a few guys here trying to warn you about the condition of this car and what it would take to build I it but as you say you let your impatience cost you this time . We’ve probably all done the same thing once or twice at least I know I have so all you can do is take a breath , regroup and decide what you really want . If you want an eldo then sell the coupe sell the parts gather up the money and wait for the right car . Brian’s car is nice but if you don’t like the colors you’ll just have another car you’re not happy with . A sienna rose might not pop up all that often but a white Seville can be found with a little work and some luck . So take a step back and decide what you really want and wait for it that way you will have a car that you want to keep forever .
R. Waligora

babywantsbling

Quote from: hornetball on September 22, 2019, 09:15:48 AM
Melinda, I'll bet your car is not full of rust holes.  The starting point makes a huge difference as most of the money is in prep.  Paint costs are much higher than they used to be though.

I'm paying ~$5K for my work (PPG Persian Lime Firemist) which included stripping the car to metal first (exterior surfaces only -- not a "frame-off").  My car was arrow-straight and rust-free but had bad prior paint jobs (crazing/checking).  The body shop felt that stripping first was the safest way to proceed.  http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/index.php?topic=154660.msg442322#msg442322

For a simple sand-and-spray paint job, I might be able to approach Melinda's price in my area.  Overhead costs (land/taxes/labor) differ wildly across the country.  My main criteria for a body shop is to find someone that is communicative and enthusiastic about the project and then look at some examples of their work.  Price is secondary.
It does not have any rust or holes. In fact it doesn’t need paint at the moment. He installed and painted the filler pieces. And I just wanted to know out of curiosity if and when I ever wanted to paint the whole car how much it would cost. That was the price he gave me. 2500
He works full time at a major body shop. But also has a huge shop of his own on his property. He’s just a good ole boy from Alabama. He loves what he does and doesn’t charge a lot I guess. On another note. Speaking of differences in price from state to state or even county to county, I have a cat that needed hip surgery, other people in other states told me it would be 1000 to 3000 for his surgery. My vet here only charged 280.
Again, it just depends on where you live.

76eldo

#49
John

The Eldo specific parts on your car are worth almost what you paid for the car. Don’t beat yourself up. The tri power setup with air cleaner is $3000. All of the Seville stainless is about $5000 including the rocker moldings.

The VIN follows the chassis number. You could take the body off of the frame and take your time and restore the chassis. Then take that solid Coupe and put the body on the frame. By the time you sell off the leftover parts you will have your money back and you will have the car you want.

It’s a lot of work and you will need a lot of space but it’s a way to make the car what you want. Unless you are trying to build a CLC GN winner or AACA Senior I’d build it your way.  Consider all that’s been written here and chose a path. There are no right or wrong answers. You pick what you want to do.

Brian
Brian Rachlin
Huntingdon Valley, Pa
I prefer email's not PM's rachlin@comcast.net

1960 62 Series Conv with Factory Tri Power
1970 DeVille Conv
1970 Eldo
1970 Caribu (?) "The Cadmino"
1973 Eldorado Conv Pace Car
1976 Eldorado Conv
1980 Eldorado H & E Conv
1993 Allante with Hardtop (X2)
2008 DTS
2012 CTS Coupe
2017 XT
1956 Thunderbird
1966 Olds Toronado

babywantsbling

Quote from: 60eldo on September 22, 2019, 12:12:05 PM
   So just to fill you guys in. Ive been looking for a white or sienna rose eldorado for about 2 yrs and nothing.  But one day a white coupe deville came up and didnt look bad so I bought it, settling. Then about a year later this eldo came up on ebay and was just listed maybe an hour. So I got really excited, didnt look at the car and didnt send anyone to. THAT WAS STUPID. But I felt I had to act fast or loose it. So I phone the owner and asked what he wanted, I thought 12,000 wasnt bad, so did bought it. I have no patience, been like that all my life. I mean Im in Toronto and its not like I could just fly there in an hr. I took a chance, rolled the dice , and lost.
Jon,
I have a friend that lives up your way. Oakville On. She has a winter condo down in the Tampa area and she was my neighbor and best friend when I used to live down there. Anyway long story, short. He was a car collector. Kept them all up in Canada except this one Eldorado that he kept down here. He died a couple of years ago and
She wanted me to have that car. So that’s what I have now. Anyway she still has 8 or 9 cars up there that she wants to get rid of. I have no idea what they are but if you want to talk to her, I can put you in touch. Maybe she has something you want.
Let me know. Thanks Melinda

Bobby B

Quote from: babywantsbling on September 22, 2019, 03:28:43 PM
Speaking of differences in price from state to state or even county to county, I have a cat that needed hip surgery, other people in other states told me it would be 1000 to 3000 for his surgery. My vet here only charged 280.
Again, it just depends on where you live.

I need to move  ;D ;D ;D.....
                             Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

wrench

#52
Good luck with your decision making...

Sunk money fallacy:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost#Concorde_effect

I have had to get the key decision maker to ‘unwind’ a project several times.

1951 Series 62 Sedan
1969 Eldorado
1970 Eldorado (Triple Black w/power roof)
1958 Apache 3/4 ton 4x4
2005 F250
2014 FLHP
2014 SRX

rwchatham CLC 21892

Jon whatever you do not use your coupe as a donor . If somebody has a donor body it would be worth 5k or so so why would you take a 20k car and turn it into a
donor car ? You could sell the car and find a body for less money if you decide to go that route , my advice would be to sell what you have and wait for the right Seville to come along .  Only continue on this car if you have the real finances to continue .
R. Waligora

Bobby B

Quote from: rwchatham CLC 21892 on September 22, 2019, 06:17:29 PM
Jon whatever you do not use your coupe as a donor . If somebody has a donor body it would be worth 5k or so so why would you take a 20k car and turn it into a
donor car ? You could sell the car and find a body for less money if you decide to go that route , my advice would be to sell what you have and wait for the right Seville to come along .  Only continue on this car if you have the real finances to continue .

I agree, unless you have lots of time to sell, box, ship, and deal with people for quite some time. You know as soon as you make a decision, the right car will pop up. Murphy's law. When you're not looking is when it happens.......
                                                                                    Bobby
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

cadillacmike68

Quote from: chrisntam on September 20, 2019, 10:51:14 PM
These are BIG cars with lots of ACREAGE, which means lots of time.

:(

Next club I join is going to the the MG club, and I'll buy an MG Midget.

;)

Austin Healey Sprite.  :P
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

cadillacmike68

Quote from: cadillac ken on September 22, 2019, 10:59:40 AM
Thank you Rock for the kind words.  ;)

Ken, What would make your shop blasphemous?

I red your writings whenever I can get a copy of Cruise News, usually when I go to Old Town, which is not as often as before. 

Perhaps you can recommend a good local chrome shop? I'm NE of Tampa, but can get all the way over to the gold coast if necessary.
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

cadillacmike68

Quote from: 76eldo on September 22, 2019, 03:48:57 PM
John

The Eldo specific parts on your car are worth almost what you paid for the car. Don’t beat yourself up. The tri power setup with air cleaner is $3000. All of the Seville stainless is about $5000 including the rocker moldings.

The VIN follows the chassis number. You could take the body off of the frame and take your time and restore the chassis. Then take that solid Coupe and put the body on the frame. By the time you sell off the leftover parts you will have your money back and you will have the car you want.

It’s a lot of work and you will need a lot of space but it’s a way to make the car what you want. Unless you are trying to build a CLC GN winner or AACA Senior I’d build it your way.  Consider all that’s been written here and chose a path. There are no right or wrong answers. You pick what you want to do.

Brian

Good words, Brian.

But man that car is a real rust bucket. I gave away a well optioned 1970 Fleetwood (to my brother) that had less rust than that.
Regards,
"Cadillac" Mike

Bobby B

Quote from: cadillacmike68 on September 22, 2019, 08:27:28 PM
Perhaps you can recommend a good local chrome shop? I'm NE of Tampa, but can get all the way over to the gold coast if necessary.

Space Coast Plating, Melbourne, FL. Excellent Work, Quick Turnaround, Good prices............
   Bobby

http://spacecoast-plating.com
1947 Cadillac Series 62 Convertible Coupe
1968 Mustang Convertible
1973 Mustang Convertible
1969 Jaguar E-Type Roadster
1971 Datsun 240Z
1979 H-D FLH

35-709

Space Coast also did all of my work on Big Red, my '73 Caribou, and my 1950 Jaguar Saloon.  I live south of Melbourne, Space Coast is about 45/50 minutes from my home, makes it very handy and I recommend their work.
1935 Cadillac Sedan resto-mod "Big Red"
1973 Cadillac Caribou - Sold - but still in the family
1950 Jaguar Mark V Saloon resto-mod - Sold
1942 Cadillac 6269 - Sold
1968 Pontiac Bonneville Convertible - Sold
1950 Packard 2dr. Club Sedan
1935 Glenn Pray - Auburn Boattail Speedster, Gen. 2