I got my new '83 Eldorado Biarritz!!!, so now I really need answers to my bumper questions, that went unanswered a few days ago. :(
Here goes...
'83 Eldorado with the plastic bumper parts. I've been told many times that this is a quick and cheap fix. Three questions...
1. Best place to get the parts?
2. Are they truly affordable?
3. Is it an easy fix that I can do? Undo some bolts, take off the bumper, slap 'em in?
Thanks, guys.
Rick
No concerns about the engine?
Congratulations - Beautiful Cars
You can replace the bumper fillers yourself - it isn't a huge job. Basically, you will remove the existing fillers, and bolt the new ones in place. You can loosen the bumper to give you a little working room, but I have never had to completely remove mine. Open the trunk and you start getting an idea as to how these are attached - you will also have some connections to the quarter panel that are accessed from under the car. As far as recommendations on getting the fillers, you will get lots of opinions. If you are trying to stay 100% original, and try to replace the fillers with NOS, you are going to have a hard time locating the pieces, and chances are they are going to be in degraded condition. There are a few places that are reproducing these in fiberglass and/or ABS, and I have always had good luck using these. Check on E-Bay for a jumping off point - I have had equally good luck with a number of vendors, so cannot suggest one over the other. All will require a little bit of filing or cutting to make a nice fit. These will be shipped in primer coat, and you will want to paint to match prior to installation.
Good luck - getting these replaced makes a tremendous impact on the look of the car.
Thank you kindly for these tips. As I am brand new to the Cadillac market, can you give me the names of a few of these vendors?
Thanks.
Speaking of the engine... What was it about "pellets" that the guy who sold it to me was talking about? Never heard of 'em, and he was less than an articulate fellow.
Oh, gonna need a headliner, too. Any tips on where to get? I will, of course, go online, and go to E-bay, but if you can save me some time with a few names, that would be great. Thanks.
Rick,
Has the engine been replaced, or worked on, or updated?
Did you look at the coolant and the oil very carefully?
A while back I wrote an article on bumper fillers for the web, and the Potomac region of the CLC.
Check it out:
www.sheffieldgarage.com/fillers.htm (http://www.sheffieldgarage.com/fillers.htm)
You now have entered the realm of HT4100 ownership, and you need to follow very specific cooling system and oil change procedures.
Go to http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/HT4100exchange/ (http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/HT4100exchange/), and check out the site, and start reading.
Brian
Thanks for the tip. I've heard that the 4100 is problematic, and I'll be very careful with it.
Quote from: Rick Biarritz on May 05, 2009, 12:13:59 PM
I've heard that the 4100 is problematic, and I'll be very careful with it.
Yeah, Rick, problematic is probably a good (and somewhat euphemistic) one-word description for the HT4100 and being very careful is essential. Here are some ways to do that: 3,000 mile oil changes with synthetic oil, annual coolant system flush and refill using aluminum-friendly antifreeze/coolant, distilled water and GM Engine Coolant Supplement (the pills), premium gasoline, trying to avoid the possibility of overheating (thermostat, water pump, belts, hoses), and, in the event of overheating (and it may still be too late at this point), turning the engine off immediately and coasting to the side of the road with your fingers crossed. In fact, when traffic conditions permit, keeping the fingers of at least one hand crossed is probably a good thing to do even when the engine isn't overheating.
I can see that I am going to have a LOT of questions. Hope I don't pester you all with them too much. I am a car NOVICE by the way. Before June of 2006 I had never so much as changed the oil in a car. Since then, I've been deep into the restoration of a 69 Dodge Polara and have been learning a lot, but am still very much a novice.
i purchased a 60k mile 83 cdv delegance and then spent 1500. on preventative maintenance. took it out for a spin and it ran like a sewing machine.....for 35 miles...then she blew. now shes in my shop awaiting an engine rebuild.
Buy the coolant supplement either from a GM dealer, or an auto parts store. They sell it under the Barr's Leak brand, and there are 6 pellets.
Here is what I have done for YEARS with no problems...
1. Drain the radiator after running the car for a few minutes, bringing it up to operating temp, making sure the thermostat has opened.
2. Fill with water from your garden hose, let it warm up, and drain again.
3. Now you should have almost clear water in the system.
4. Turn on the heater on the highest temp so that the flushing will also include the heater core. Run until you only see clear water running out.
5. Let the car run, rad cap off, hose water trickling in and also leave the radiator petcock open.
6. Turn off the car, and the hose and let the rest of the water drain out.
The whole idea here is to GENTLY drain out the old nasty coolant. NEVER powerflush or reverse flush. If you have a flush adapter in one of the heater hoses, fine, use it, but keep the hose pressure low. If you have a weak area on the headgasket, you will blow it right out by powerflushing or reverse flushing.
Take all 6 pellets, and crush them up into powder and small fragments. Take about 1/3 and put it in the radiator.
Now, add 1 gallon of premium antifreeze, and another 1/3 of the pellets.
Add a 2nd gallon of water and the rest of the pellet powder. If more coolant is required to fill it up, use 50/50 antifreeze/water mix.
After doing this, keep the car running, heat on hi at highest temp and drive the car moderately for about 20 minutes.
This is the most effective way of getting rid of the old coolant, making sure you have a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water, and the pellets.
It's not a guaranteed cure, but it's your best shot at doing it right.
I already know there are some that will say only use 2 pellets, use distilled water, but I am telling you what has worked for me for over 20 years with these cars.
Do this ANNUALLY. Change the thermostat every other year. It's easy on an Eldo. Make sure your belts and hoses are in excellent shape. If you blow a hose or throw a belt, you will probably overheat the engine, which is the worst thing you can do to a 4100.
Change the oil every 3000 miles or less, use 10/30 in the winter, and 10/40 in the summer. Use a good grade of regular oil, and a premium oil filter. Add STP if you like, but keeping the oil clean, and the cooling system in top shape will save this engine. If the radiator looks all crusty and plugged up inside, get a new one. The same caustic chemicals that may clean the radiator may also "clean" something of your engine that has been plugging up a void somewhere.
When the car is hot, you may hear a "hot knock" at idle. Keep the oil clean and full, and try to ignore that sound, 'cause you can't fix it unless you rebuild the engine.
When it is hot, it may ping going up hills or under a load. Pinging sounds like a bunch of marbles rolling around under the valve covers.
If it does that, you need to change the base timing by using the procedure in the shop manual.
Keep in mind, you may do everything correctly and still have a problem, but I have seen these engines run for many miles, way over 100K, so enjoy your car, but be smart about how much money you put into the car. If the engine goes, it's about a $4000 cost to replace it. With a blown motor, the nicest Eldo or Seville turns into a $400.00 parts car real quick.
These are all just my opinions, but based on owning about 8 of these cars since about 1988.
Brian
Quote from: jeff1956 on May 05, 2009, 07:03:35 PM
i purchased a 60k mile 83 cdv delegance and then spent 1500. on preventative maintenance. took it out for a spin and it ran like a sewing machine.....for 35 miles...then she blew. now shes in my shop awaiting an engine rebuild.
That's really tough luck, Jeff, even for an HT4100 owner. I'd like to hear how the new owner of the '85 Fleetwood Brougham that had something like 125 miles on it and was sold several months (or maybe a year) ago on ebay and linked to this board did with his purchase. If the engine failed a few miles down the road, that would lend credence to the theory that time is as much a factor in HT4100 durability as mileage due to block porosity and gasket leakage. I would really have liked to have bought that car as it's one of my favorite body styles and was in a color I like, but even though it was virtually new car, I wouldn't have touched it because of the engine.
Quote from: Rick Biarritz on May 05, 2009, 12:13:59 PM
Thanks for the tip. I've heard that the 4100 is problematic, and I'll be very careful with it.
"Problematic". That's funny.
Quote from: Rick Biarritz on May 05, 2009, 04:44:19 PM
Since then, I've been deep into the restoration of a 69 Dodge Polara and have been learning a lot, but am still very much a novice.
Great! You have a reliable car.
If the restoration isn't finished yet, hurry up. You're going to need it!
LOL otto! I intended to use my 83 CDV as a daily driver as well....before she blew 35 miles later. After that whole issue, I got a bad taste in my mouth for the car, so I went out and purchased a new 2004 chevy impala. I was not looking for a car payment, but as fate had it a car payment is what i got! I also bought a 2000 Catera used with 54K on the odo, beautiful white, with cashmere interior..looked brand new! I didn't keep that car over 8 months...very problematic, plus I guess I didn't need two daily drivers...
Jeff
Speaking of running the heater... I purchase the car in NY city and drove it home to VA with no problems at all, but... It was raining the whole way and I could never get the heat to come on. I'd put on the defrost, crank it up to 80, 85, or even 90 degrees, and it still kept blowing ice cold air -- the ac works just fine, obviously. What's up with that?
What kind of tool do you use to file and/or cut these body fillers?
Thanks
I used a drill, and files.
Brian
You know, this sort of bothers me.
Every time anyone makes a post about any HT4100 equipped car, no matter the post, there are always the fear mongers that have to replay about the reliability issues of the engine. That no doubt scares the bejeebers out of the poor guy with the car.
Don't you suppose that there is maybe a more diplomatic way of making all aware of the special concerns and maintenance requirements of these engines? Y'all make it sound as if total and catastrophic failure is imminent with anyone that has one of these cars.
Many of these cars, particularly the earlier ones, have already had engine replacements, and the later ones have had a number of fixes already in place. But that does not, nor will ever make up for poor maintenance. On this or any engine. Granted, there are still some around that may have problems and we should be aware of them.
And I know I am leaving myself open for some lengthy diatribes about my remarks, but again I can make good on all my claims, as many here know I can. But I will choose not to.
If any of you want to know the full scoop on this engine, just go to the HT4100 Exchange and read up.
Mike
Quote from: Mike Jones on May 08, 2009, 09:37:16 AM
You know, this sort of bothers me.
Every time anyone makes a post about any HT4100 equipped car, no matter the post, there are always the fear mongers that have to replay about the reliability issues of the engine. That no doubt scares the bejeebers out of the poor guy with the car.
The fact being that these were the worse engines every made by Cadillac, doesn't justify all the accurate posts concerning the engine?
QuoteDon't you suppose that there is maybe a more diplomatic way of making all aware of the special concerns and maintenance requirements of these engines? Y'all make it sound as if total and catastrophic failure is imminent with anyone that has one of these cars.
Diplomatic way of telling someone that they most likely are headed for disaster? Interesting. I like the Don Coleone method of getting bad news.
"TOM
Thank you for the dinner and a very pleasant evening. If your car could take me to the
airport; Mr. Corleone is a man who insists on hearing bad news immediately."
[/quote] Many of these cars, particularly the earlier ones, have already had engine replacements,[/quote]
I disagree, I think most of them have already had a date with the crusher, and the ones that are still around are in the waiting room.
Quoteand the later ones have had a number of fixes already in place. But that does not, nor will ever make up for poor maintenance. On this or any engine. Granted, there are still some around that may have problems and we should be aware of them.
And in a swift manner.
QuoteAnd I know I am leaving myself open for some lengthy diatribes about my remarks, but again I can make good on all my claims, as many here know I can. But I will choose not to.
Ah so you are self proclaimed pot stirrer?
QuoteIf any of you want to know the full scoop on this engine, just go to the HT4100 Exchange and read up.
Mike
Excellent advice.
My basic thoughts and opinions on this subject are, to quickly warn anyone that is contemplating purchasing a car with this engine, about its built to fail nature, and let them know what they most likely are in for. For those that already have bought one of these cars with the engine, to offer them all the help and advice possible, such as the pellets etc.
One question you should ask yourself is, if you know everything you know about the engine now, would you buy one with the original engine? I think the overwhelming answer would be a resounding NO. Why would anyone want to buy a car that has a major history of greatly defective engine, which always requires a major output of money to rectify?
i think one would buy one bc theyll likely turn out like the packards, edsels, etc did. theyll become a major collectors item bc most will have been crushed...making them worth more
Rarity doesn't necessarily translate to higher value. In fact,it makes a vehicle less desirable in some cases.
More than 500,000 Mustangs were made the first year of their introduction. They are not rare buy any measure yet they are much more valuable and sought after than just about any post war Cadillac limousine whose production numbers might barely top 1000.
There aren't any Yugos around either. Does that mean they're the next big investment for car collectors? I think not.
I hate Ht 4100 cars!!!,but,I had a new 84 coupe that I punished for 72k,sold it to a guy who drove it every day till 2001,father in law had an 85 eldo till 110k,and I know of a guy personally that drove a 1984 sedan deville 430k miles in taxi service on one engine! (fact,really) so,who knows!
Did ALL the Eldorados from 83-85 have the 4100?
Quote from: Rick Biarritz on May 08, 2009, 08:44:48 PM
Did ALL the Eldorados from 83-85 have the 4100?
No, some had diesel engines.
Didn't the FORD'S around the mid-30's have aluminum heads. I never heard of any problem with them. Jim
I tend to agree with Mike Jones. The anti HT4100 group comes on very strong when ever this engine is mentioned. A little quiet discussion on the subject would be much more appropriate.
I’ve never had any experience with these engines but when all the shouting dies down I see an engine that had problems from the factory, but the rebuilt and crate engines seem to be much more reliable then the originals.
Glen
Quote from: Glen on May 09, 2009, 03:56:38 AM
I’ve never had any experience with these engines but when all the shouting dies down I see an engine that had problems from the factory, but the rebuilt and crate engines seem to be much more reliable then the originals.
What shouting? All I see is folks giving straightforward "facts" concerning these engines.
I don't think there's an anti-HT400 group any more than there is a pro-HT400 group. People get excited about certain issues and this is one of them. The facts are still the facts regardless of who is presenting them or how they're presented.
Sure, there are exceptions to many of the horror stories about this engine but the fact remains that it is much more prone to serious trouble than just about any other modern engine you could think of.
It's a shame such an engine was installed in what could have been a hugely popular collector car.Those Eldorados were some of the best looking cars of the era.
Quote from: homeonprunehill on May 09, 2009, 01:56:13 AM
Didn't the FORD'S around the mid-30's have aluminum heads. I never heard of any problem with them. Jim
You're right, Ford V-8's of that era (as well as the similar Lincoln-Zephyr V-12) did have aluminum heads and from what I've read, they would often become stuck to the cast iron block and were difficult, if not impossible, to remove, but the HT4100's heads are cast iron.
Quote from: ottoskorzeny on May 09, 2009, 09:02:39 AM
It's a shame such an engine was installed in what could have been a hugely popular collector car.Those Eldorados were some of the best looking cars of the era.
So very true.
Is there any way to tell if my engine is a replacement?
The easiest way is to look at the rocker covers. The Goodwrench engines all came with cast aluminum covers, and all 1982-83 HT4100s came from the factory with chrome rocker covers. But if yours still has chrome covers, and want to check further, there are other clues.
Second design intake manifold bolts utilised spring washers. That was included with all new engines, but could have been upgraded in the field with original engines.
To tell for sure, look at the engine number plate. It's attached by rivets to the left side of the bell housing. An original engine will have the vehicle's VIN number as the last 6 digits, a replacement engine, as in a new Goodwrench, will not.
Mike
Since there were several GM 5.7 diesel class-action lawsuits, I wondered why I had never seen anything about one for the HT4100. There was at least one and if you go to the address below, the man who filed it (himself a former HT4100 owner) explains in detail all of the shortcomings in engineering and casting the engine had and what they led to. The lawsit was settled out of court. He also wrote a book about the engine which is referenced in the article, but is out of print and difficult to find. Be sure to read the comments about the article below it.
The article recounts how common HT4100 replacements were in the 1980's, but they went on en mass for years after that. Shortly after I bought a '92 Sedan Deville, I had it in the dealership for a minor warranty repair. It was in the service department next to a very well-cared-for 1984 SDV which had about 60,000 miles on it. The work order had these two notations: "Customer says knock in engine" and "Replace engine". By that time, apparently, and even with a relatively low mileage engine, the dealership didn't even bother to tear those engines down to see where the knock was coming from, they just replaced them any time any of the symptoms of HT4100itis showed up.
www.carsurvey.org/reviews/cadillac/seville/r29163/comments
I was just wondering if there is any drop in replacement engine that will work without cutting, welding, fabricating, etc?
I don't own one of these cars nor do I ever intend to. I was just curious if you have to replace an HT400 anyway, is there a substitute that will easily fit and mate with the transmission - or another engine/transmission combo that will work?
Fabulous question. That's what I want to know.
Quote from: Mike Jones on May 09, 2009, 12:23:52 PM
The easiest way is to look at the rocker covers. The Goodwrench engines all came with cast aluminum covers, and all 1982-83 HT4100s came from the factory with chrome rocker covers. But if yours still has chrome covers, and want to check further, there are other clues.
Second design intake manifold bolts utilised spring washers. That was included with all new engines, but could have been upgraded in the field with original engines.
To tell for sure, look at the engine number plate. It's attached by rivets to the left side of the bell housing. An original engine will have the vehicle's VIN number as the last 6 digits, a replacement engine, as in a new Goodwrench, will not.
Mike
Dumb question maybe, but what do you mean by the "bell housing"? The only BH I know of is not on the engine block. Am I being dense?
Quote from: Glen on May 09, 2009, 03:56:38 AMThe anti HT4100 group comes on very strong when ever this engine is mentioned. A little quiet discussion on the subject would be much more appropriate.
A voice of dissension, and to just be controversial and play the devil's advocate >:D: I haven't any personal ownership experience with this engine but have heard all the issues about them since they were only weeks old. But it seems to me that an engine that has lasted 26 years and traveled quite a few miles can't be too bad an engine. It may have cost a bit much or required more diligence to achieve this life span, but it's been achieved and in this case is in a car that is still very much in marketable condition. I don't know that I could complain about that very much.
Rick, please post some photos of your car that has generated such a long discussion.
Quote from: ottoskorzeny on May 09, 2009, 07:03:27 PM
Rick, please post some photos of your car that has generated such a long discussion.
Great idea! I will do so tomorrow, after I resize the pics.
Quote from: Rick Biarritz on May 09, 2009, 06:15:55 PM
Dumb question maybe, but what do you mean by the "bell housing"? The only BH I know of is not on the engine block. Am I being dense?
You never know until you ask.
But maybe I misused the term since it is always used in this context. The bell housing is actually on the transmission and it houses the clutch or torque convertor. At one time it was part of it was on the engine, and the term carried on. What I meant was the part where the transmission attaches to the engine, or the ears on the back of the block that facilitates the attachment of the transmission.
Mike
Quote from: ottoskorzeny on May 09, 2009, 05:49:10 PM
I was just wondering if there is any drop in replacement engine that will work without cutting, welding, fabricating, etc?
I don't own one of these cars nor do I ever intend to. I was just curious if you have to replace an HT400 anyway, is there a substitute that will easily fit and mate with the transmission - or another engine/transmission combo that will work?
There is no direct replacement for this engine. Although the later 4.5's and particularly the 4.9's turned out to be very good engines, proof that the concept worked, they were of the transverse block design which are differant from the longitudinal blocks used in the RWD D cars, and the 82-85 E/K cars.
Although many have replaced the engine with one of the Olds built engines. But this requires quite a bit of conversion work to make them fit in and work.
For me, I would seek out one of the Goodwrench engines. That have all the updates and are good engines. Problem is, this engine is no longer produced and hasn't been since the mid 90's at the latest. Searches though wrecking yards may yeaild one, or locating a car that has the engine istalled at an earlier date. I have done both.
Mike
As far as the bolt in part of an engine swap you have a few options that were offered in the same body style. Cadillac 368 which happens to be the same external block as the 425/472/500 was an option in 80 and 81. Oldsmobile V8's were an option in one form or another 79-85. Buick V6's were also an option in most of the cars most of the years. For any of those motors you would need the proper oil pan, drive shaft extension, starter, and likey some of the accessory mounts. The electrical and electronics is where it gets more interesting. The Cadillacs were the only ones that were EFI, the Rivs and Toros had carbs.
Quote from: Chris Conklin #25055 on May 09, 2009, 06:59:19 PM
A voice of dissension, and to just be controversial and play the devil's advocate >:D: I haven't any personal ownership experience with this engine but have heard all the issues about them since they were only weeks old. But it seems to me that an engine that has lasted 26 years and traveled quite a few miles can't be too bad an engine. It may have cost a bit much or required more diligence to achieve this life span, but it's been achieved and in this case is in a car that is still very much in marketable condition. I don't know that I could complain about that very much.
As with any thread on any message board, a discussion has sort of turned into friendly debate, especially with the introduction of the terms anti-HT4100 and pro-HT4100, which I personally find to be an oxymoron. Myself I prefer to deal with facts, and it seems to me, that, in looking at the big picture, that overall these engines had major engineering designs, and were a disaster for GM, Cadillac, and least of all the owners. Sure there are success stories of survivors that went on to have long and fruitful lives, and as an owner of a car with one of these engines, I am extremely glad to hear of these. but the fact remains that the majority of engines gave their owners a monumental headache, and that if faced with the same buying decision again, would simply say "I'll Pass"
Not all of these engines were the same. The early engines no doubt were the ones that gave GM most of the headaches, but they got to it to correct the problems. The biggest problem was the migration of the cylinder head on the block that caused head gaskets to fail. This was caused by the use of split dowels in the block. A revision to solid dowels and a change on head gasket material pretty much eliminated the problem. Also, there was a high incidence of intake manifold gasket failures. These were actually the most common, but had the effect of dumping coolant into the oil and most that did not really understand these engines quickly pointed to the head gaskets. This was fixed with a change to revised bolts with spring washers, revise torque procedures and a change of material to impacted graphite.
Other problems were worn cams, caused bu coolant leak into the lifter valley from either leaking intake or head gaskets, and wearing distributor gears. An updated distributor drive gear was released to correct this problem.
Main bearing knocks were also common. That was caused by mostly the #1 and #5 bearings having larger than acceptable clearance after warm up. This was a function of the expansion rates in aluminum blocks, but was corrected by adding extra eccentricity in the bearings.
Many problems were also created by a lack of maintenance. I have it on good authority that many of the returned engine that had 30-50,000 miles still had the original oil filters. Also, because of the aluminum content in the engines, bi-annual coolant changes were required without regard to mileage. I have seen several failed engines with coolant that is brown in colour and has a very high acidic content. Overheating this engine also pretty much spelled it's demise, as many engines were subjected to.
One myth, however, is surrounding the porosity of the blocks. That simply was not so, and Mercury Marine had no involvement with this engine whatsoever. As a matter of fact, the identical block casting was used for all HT4100 engines. Some extra ribbing was added during the production of the 4.5 engines to strengthen the block in anticipation of higher outputs in the future, like the 4.9 saw.
Mike
Quote from: Mike Jones on May 10, 2009, 12:37:02 PM
Not all of these engines were the same. The early engines no doubt were the ones that gave GM most of the headaches, but they got to it to correct the problems. The bigges problem was the migration of the cylinder head on the block that caused head gaskets to fail. Thos was caused by the use of split dowels in the bloc. A revision to solid dowles ans a change on head gasket material pretty much eliminated the problem. Also, there was a high incidence of intake manifold gasket failures. These were actually the most common, but had the effect of dumping coolant into the oil and most that did not really understan these engines quickly pointed to the head gaskets. Tjis was fixed with a change to revised bolts with spring washers, revise torq procedures and a change of material ti impacked graphite.
Other problems were worn cams, caused bu coolant leak into the lifter valley from either leaking intake or head gaskets, and wearing distributor gears. An updated distributor drive gear was released to correct this problem.
Main bearing knocks were also common. That was caused bu mostly the #1 and #5 bearings having larger than acceptable clearance afterwarm up. This was a function of the expansion rates in aluminum blocks, but was corrected by adding extra eccentricity in the bearings.
Many problems were also created by a lack of maintenance. I have it on good authority that many of the returned engine that had 30-50,000 miles still had the original oil filters. Also, because of the aluminum content in the engines, bi-annual coolant changes were required without regard to mileage. I have seen several failed engines with coolant that is brown in colour and has a very high acidic content.Overheating this engine also pretty much spelled it's demise, as many engines were subjected to.
One myth, however, is surrounding the porosity of the blocks. That simply was not so, and Mercury Marine had no involvement with this engine whatsoever. As a matter of fact, the identical block casting was used for all HT4100 engines. Some extra ribbing was added during the production of the 4.5 engines to strengthen the block in anticipation of higher outputs in the future, like the 4.9 saw.
Mike
Mike, excellent post concerning the "engineering" flaws of the early engines, and without a doubt had these not existed and with proper maintenance the engines most likely would have provided many years of reliable service to their owners, but therein lies the fly in the ointment. From day when Henry Leland made his first Cadillac, it has been touted as "The Standard of the World", and rightfully so. Through the ensuing years GM and Cadillac had Cadillac as their "Jewel in the Crown" and rightfully so, till finally a Cadillac became synonymous with "The Best of Anything", such as "The Cadillac of barbeque grilles, dishwashers etc.", and in fact, despite its recent history of mistakes, the expression is still used in some circles Sad to say, it might eventually fall by the wayside such as the expression "Built like a Mack truck". To get to my point, it is my opinion, that the average Cadillac bought and still buys a Cadillac with the thought in mind, that they are buying the best that the Automobile industry has to offer, and obviously this reputation was greatly tarnished with the introduction of the HT4100 engine. Hopefully GM can resurrect themselves to some level of their past glory, because, from what I have heard, current Cadillacs, are once again, a luxury car that warrants strong consideration for a prospective buyer looking for a automobile in the luxury class.
Thank you. I thought I should spell out the problems and the corrections once again for those that had not read my earlier posts on the issues. And to remind those that had and forgotten. I have had some discussions with a person that was in the trenches during these years and was at least partly responsible for the corrections. This along with my experiences working on them during my 10 year tenure as a technician at a Cadillac dealer.
Further, I have done some thought about the sudden and catastrophic demise of engines. So far, my theory lies with the nylon timing gear coming apart and plugging up the oil pick up tube, thereby starving the engine for oil. This mostly seems to occur during long highway runs. Often it is accompanied by the oil pressure light coming on. After engine shutdown, if blowing the engine is averted, the engine is restarted and the light remains off. However, it often re-occurs leading to a bottom end failure. This is a failure that is not unique to the HT4100's. I have heard of several 472/500's suffering the same fate, and no one ever maligns those engines.
Sorry about all the spelling mistakes. I posted in a hurry and had to run out the door. I went back and corrected them all.
Mike
Hey Rick, how far do you live from the Great White North? If you're within 500 miles of Kitchener, Ontario, I'd drive on over to Mike's house and let him look over your car!
Quote from: ottoskorzeny on May 11, 2009, 03:54:15 PM
Hey Rick, how far do you live from the Great White North? If you're within 500 miles of Kitchener, Ontario, I'd drive on over to Mike's house and let him look over your car!
Or in a worst-case scenario, they could meet somewhere in between.
Yeah, that would be fun.
I have an HT4100 here that I am rebuilding that you could see the complete internals of.
Mike
Quote from: Mike Jones on May 12, 2009, 09:10:35 AM
Yeah, that would be fun.
I have an HT4100 here that I am rebuilding that you could see the complete internals of.
Mike
Well, Mike, meeting somewhere in between your residence and Rick's in the worst-case scenario I had in mind might not be so fun for him, but he might be happy to see if you if arrived on the scene with a tow truck. Hopefully, though, he has one of the "good" (or at least better) HT4100's we hear about from time to time in his Eldorado.
I have no idea where Rick lives, but I'm sure he'll make it. Just some good precautionary look see's on the car and he should be good to go.
BTW, I'm a homebody and don't travel much. And before you say it, it has absolutely nothing to do with HT4100's.
Mike
Quote from: Mike Jones on May 12, 2009, 05:27:12 PM
BTW, I'm a homebody and don't travel much. And before you say it, it has absolutely nothing to do with HT4100's. Mike
I can vouch for that.
I had to twist both his arms, and legs to get him to take Bronwyn and myself, and our luggage down to Michigan last year.
And to top it off, he stayed overnight, in a Foreign Country, and really enjoyed himself to boot.
Bruce. >:D
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) (Bruce Reynolds) on May 12, 2009, 10:24:03 PM
I can vouch for that.
I had to twist both his arms, and legs to get him to take Bronwyn and myself, and our luggage down to Michigan last year.
And to top it off, he stayed overnight, in a Foreign Country, and really enjoyed himself to boot.
Bruce. >:D
He he Bruce! You be a funny guy!
Yes, it took you to get me to actually take a trip, and yes I really did enjoy myself. The folks in Michigan were most accommodating, Jerry his wife and Car Freak. But now starting in June we have to have passports to enter the US and I have no intention of getting one. Do US residents need one to enter Canada?
Mike
Yes. We have to have one. This was supposed to start last year but the government wasn't ready for it yet.The Stat Department was all backed up on issuing new passports, etc.
At least it's tit for tat. I wasn't sure.
Mike
Quote from: Mike Jones on May 13, 2009, 07:45:13 AM
....... But now starting in June we have to have passports to enter the US and I have no intention of getting one. Do US residents need one to enter Canada? Mike
But, you will need one when you come Down Under.
Bruce. >:D
Yep for sure. But that would be a long planned trip. Plus I would need to become much more affluent to pay my way. It would be a trip of a lifetime for me, though. For now my main expeditions will be to our little "resort" up north. Remember, I'm just a poor old mechanic.
We get a raw deal on passports. $75 and they are good for only five years.
Mike
Ours are good for at least 10 years and I think maybe even 15 and still $75.
Okay, next question, and thanks for all the help thus far. Replacing my floor mats... How do I know if my color is red, maroon, etc? Is that info in the vin? Thanks.
You will find the trim code on the SPI label that is attached to the underside of the trunk lid. It will be in the last series of alpha-numeric codes.
Mike
Quote from: Mike Jones on May 14, 2009, 10:09:18 AM
You will find the trim code on the SPI label that is attached to the underside of the trunk lid. It will be in the last series of alpha-numeric codes.
Mike
Mike, I opened the trunk and all I see is the big ol' label with jacking instructions. Am I missing it or is it gone? Thanks.
That is the typical location for this label. However, some may be found in other places. On the Eldorado, that is the only place I remember seeing it.
But, the early 80's was a time when not all cars got this label, so it is possible that yours did not come with it. By 1985, pretty muche every GM model had an SPI labe, but it was found in varying spots, model for model.
But, they still did use the build sheet. I have usually found this sheet under the seats between the springs and foam. It also carries the information you need.
Mike
Quote from: Mike Jones on May 22, 2009, 12:11:58 PM
That is the typical location for this label. However, some may be found in other places. On the Eldorado, that is the only place I remember seeing it.
But, the early 80's was a time when not all cars got this label, so it is possible that yours did not come with it. By 1985, pretty muche every GM model had an SPI labe, but it was found in varying spots, model for model.
But, they still did use the build sheet. I have usually found this sheet under the seats between the springs and foam. It also carries the information you need.
Mike
This is funny. I found the tag literally 3 minutes ago. I'm gonna hit it with a flashlight, and read the numbers to my wife. If I post the numbers here, can anybody decode them? I'm looking for the color of my carpet so I can order a new set. Thanks.
PS - I consulted my shop manual, and found the tag on the firewall as directed.
Okay, here goes. Two separate lines of numbers...
773 78L 78U L
D 01A 63L57 3 099261
What color is my carpet? Thanks.
The 773 is the number you are looking for. 78 L and 78 U are the paint colours. L for lower and U for upper. This can be confusing since this is how they differentiates 2-tone paint jobs. The "U" is generally the over riding colour, and the colour on single tone cars.
773 also denotes a leather interior. If the car had a vinyl roof, there would be a code followed by the suffix "T".
78 denotes Dark Autumn Maple Metallic, but I do not have access to the trim codes at the moment.
Mike
Sounds good. Hope you can find those codes. :)
Thanks.
I have some RPO quick check books around here somewhere, just can't put my hands on them at the moment.
Mike
Red mats are truly red, the maroon ones are very dark reddish-brown.
Many Eldo coupes had the maroon interior, all the convertibles had RED, White, or blue. Look at similar cars on ebay and you will see the difference.
Brian
Courtesy of Craig Wexelblatt:
773=interior color code 77...Sales lit. name is Dark Maroon. Not sure if the "3" is for
sierra leather, or Prima cloth. GM ordering name for this color is Dark Maple. Carpet
color name is the same. Need to do further research to find if both Eldorado models used Tampico carpet material.
78L and 78U are the body colors, L for lower, U for upper. Matching numbers indicate that this is not a two-tone car.
L at the end of the line in the code stands for Lacquer paint.
After the 78U there should have been another three digit number for the accent stripe. The absence of this number may mean the car left the factory without pinstripes.
Next line:
D= 1983
01A=The time the car was built, possibly first shift.
63L57= Eldorado 2-door coupe
3= should equal the plant code, however, there is no such plant code for "3" for 1983. The correct codes aree as follows; 9=Fleetwood, H=Flint, M=Lansing, P=Pontiac.
099261=The broadcast number of the car (could be different than the last six digits of the VIN.
Hope this helps. All info came from Cadillac sales and factory literature.