Here of late, my enthusiasm for reading the SS has waned considerably. I've looked at a couple of the most recent issues, and as I went through the pages, I found myself uninspired, unlike any of the issues of years gone by.
I have almost every issue of the SS, from the first issue, when it had been named: "The Standard", which I later named the Local publication in the Detroit area. One issue recently, dealt heavily in the 1960 model year, as it was the 50th year issue. OK, but there was so much 1960, and about nothing else, I just flipped it onto a pile of other mags, and I'll probably never look at it again. A friend was visiting the other day, and the 1960 issue came up (His car is the cover feature on that issue). He went into long detail about how he [posed the picture (which is a rarity). I had to confess that the 1960 Cadillacs don't do much for me, and I was sorry, but that's just me.
A few years ago, there was a SS annual issue, with all sorts of stylists' concept designs in it.....as Cadillacs? Summarizing, every designer's drawing looked like a road grader, with wheels from a big hay wagon. In my mind, the worst waste of money ever made for a CLC publication. It's the only isue of the SS that I ever threw out.
Looked at the GN issue again today, and the pictures are superb. Like many other club mags, the pictures occupied pretty much the full issue, so it was pretty acceptable. I find that a lot of page space was consumed by group pictures of people at the meet. Those pictures don't add much to the story of the meet, and could have been omitted, with nobody missing them.
Another older member and I hve been discussing that the newer era cars have pretty well taken over, and even that he has submitted articles on earlier cars, he may never see them published. Based on that I've submitted my last article, at least for a long time. Steve must have one nice big backlog.
I write regularly for the CCCA Michigan TORQUE, and my stuff gets into print pretty quickly. As with most editors, the editor of that mag has little backlog, and he likes my material. So, you go where the action is. As long as I've been getting the SS, the issues in the future will probably lay unopened for a couple of months before I get to them.
The SS has grown new, while I've grown old. Neither of us is what we used to was.
They tend to pile up at my house till the wife threatens to toss them in the recycle bin. At that point I will usually flip through them, it does not take long. I cant remember the last time I read a compete article and its been even longer since I saved one. Same thing happens with the local club stuff only there I usually see events that I missed that I may have liked to go to. When people visit my house and there is a SS on the table no one picks them up and I do have car people over regularly, a few are even Cad owners. For some reason I look forward to going to my dad's house so I can look at his Oakland Pontiac club's Smoke Signals. Im not especially interested in the cars that tend to be featured (the muscle era) but I still find them interesting to read. Not sure what misses for me in the SS. I am fascinated with all things mechanical even if I dont ever think I am going to own one.
So what's your point, Doug?
It sounds like you're depressed that you're old or just jaded rather than a problem with the magazine.
At the tender age of 68 I devour my Self-Starter as soon as it arrives. I have little or no interest in new cars of any make, model, or description but I enjoy the SS immensely.
Geoff N.
Quote from: TJ Hopland on September 12, 2010, 08:46:59 PM
For some reason I look forward to going to my dad's house so I can look at his Oakland Pontiac club's Smoke Signals.
Gee, I thought that would be a good name for the Lucas Electrical Magazine. :)
But, seriously, I read my copies from cover to cover, then again and again, but maybe I am getting older fast, and the articles on the really older cars don't really interest me that much, but I still read them, and learn things. I was never really into "Old" cars, but really appreciate them, and for what they did to enable me to enjoy the ones I do like.
The Self Starter is up there with the Brass Bell, and I must admit, that some issues are less engrossing that others.
But, the issues with pictures of the GN, to me are "boring" as virtually all the car pictures are so much alike, but in a nice way, as I realise that the taking of the pictures cannot be all over the place, or the photographer would never get them done.
I do like seeing pictures of people, especially as down here, we don't get to see them very often, and it gives us "out-of-towners" a chance to put a picture to a name.
Bruce. >:D
PS. Haven't got my GN Issue as yet.
I got an International tractor with Lucas electric on it and smoke is not a problem. Lights and battery charging are a different story. Luckily its a diesel so once its started it will stay running. That part is Bosh but I guess a copy of an American design.
I really dont know why I find that mag so interesting. I did grow up in a Pontiac house / family but somehow got a Cadillac bug. My dad still does not understand where it came from but at least it was GM so I was allowed to park them in front of the house when I still lived there.
My Point? I feel that the SS has lost a lot of the variety that it once had. I feel that the editors are concentrating on models that are sixties and newer, and forgetting that members are interested in stuff before the sixties. Maybe the articles aren't coming in that cover that period, but from some commentary I hear, they are, and are being brushed aside so as to favor later glitz, high scoring carsand forgetting that there are original and unmolested cars that would be interesting to see published. But, the editors of the SS, have fallen into a rut of concentrating on highly perfected cars. and would probably never hear of showing a nice, unrestored car. This is one of the things that's killing the CCCA. It has become a showplace for millionaire's jewel pieces, and nothing less than a 99 point car would ever be allowed in their magazine. A young admirer of classic cars of whatever marque gets the feeling that he could ever afford that sort of finery as a hobby thing. I simply feel that the SS is being pushed to a journal of highly perfected artifcts that should be parked in a jewel case instead of a garage, and kept for the sole purpose of readying for the next auction.
And these clubs are whining about wanting younger members!
In a publication of that sort, you can't departmentize an issue with sections for every era, but the thrust of the mag is too much toward later eras than those that excite me, so my enthusiasm for the publication has fallen off quite a bit.
Just understand.....I'm not looking for agreement or disagreement here. These are simply my thoughts
Again, that's me talking, and I'm not recommending or agitating for another format. I'm simply saying that the 'Starter has lost me. I'm not looking for it to change.
I guess I am missing the point... I love the SS I think it is one of the main reasons to belong to the club... Here lately a lot of people are really down on the club and the now the SS. It seems to me if you are no longer having fun then you should go quietly in the night.... :-\
Im not saying there is anything wrong with it either. I assume there are people out there that enjoy it and if that is the majority then I guess the editors are doing their job well.
I wonder if Doug hit on what is missing for me in that much of the content is upper end stuff that is well out of my price range? I should have a closer look at some recent issues and see if that perhaps is it.
I'd be willing to bet that most members of the CLC own the newer models you speak of and therefore find the magazine appropriate and interesting.
When people were collecting antique cars in the 1950s they wanted brass era cars. The 1930s models were just worn out used cars. Same with the 1940s.
In the 1960s and 70s the emphasis was on the 30s and early 40s.
Flash forward to the present. The common used cars of just 10 or 20 years ago are now what people are collecting. You mention getting young people interested in the hobby. I put to you that most young people will be more interested in a newer models simply because they can still be purchased and driven. Parts are available and these cars are vehicles they remember from their youth.
The younger members have no connection to the earlier models and thus less interest in them.
Hi Doug
I just wanted to say thank you for posting your thoughts - one of the purposes of the forum is about raising issues - some issues are sensitive but I think you approached it diplomatically; apologies for those that tackle the "man" and not the issue.
From your low CLC number, I take it that you've been a member for quite some time - if so, I for one, respect that.
Here are a few thoughts - do a survey? - form a chapter? - get a perspective from Steve?
Thanks, regards, Ross.
If anyone wants to sell a large quantity of Self Starters let me know.
70's - 80's - 90's and early 2000's.
brian
I understand what you are saying Doug, and to a point I agree. I remember when the cars of the 70s and 80s were new and it is hard for me to see them as collectable.
Also I remember one of the national clubs (AACA or was it CCCA?) would publish magazines with almost no pictures of cars. There would be a couple of pages of this region’s meet; a couple of pages of that region’s meet etc. until the whole magazine was all of people standing at attention looking at the camera. Real boring. At least have pictures of them doing something with the cars. Sitting at a bar is not an improvement.
I too like the drivers, the over restored cars show a lot of work but they are still over restored. Kind of like a woman with too much makeup.
Unfortunately that seems to be the way the hobby is going. The older cars are deemed unsafe in their original configuration and are modified. Mostly because there is no one that seems to know how to work on them any more.
Fortunately there is this forum where there are still a few people that know the older cars.
I have to agree wholeheartedly with Doug, its not that the SS has gone bad, just that people get older and their interests aren't compatible with what the younger guys want just as Forrest said, especially if a mag is aiming at younger members. I'm the Librarian and SW secretary for a club here in the UK started in 1966 catering for older US cars and the emphasis is to constantly move the time line later. Articles covering older cars does run out. I too flip through my SS and throw it on the shelf, don't think Ive ever read one twice. When I belonged to clubs in the 60s I had no interest in cars from the teens but I remember the same beef from older members who were.
As the SS is the only benefit of CLSC membership when living outside the US I will not miss it. I have made some great friends in the CLSC (and some enemies) none of them because of the SS.
As Payton said, I think we should go quietly in the night.
About 10-11 years ago when I first joined the club, my problem was that few models from the "muscle era" and later were featured.
From a practical perspective, as a 20-something guy just out of college, those cars were the ones I was likely to see, be able to afford, and purchase.
I could count on the fingers of one hand then, and still can, the number of pre-1961 Cadillacs I ever saw advertised for sale, or in person, in my area. I just saw my first LaSalle for sale three months ago.
I was much more concerned with how to adjust the drum brakes of my 1968 Cadillac, or make a scissor top work properly, than with the finer points of a V-16. I found myself giving the magazine a cursory glance, then tossing it with the others on my workbench.
I wrote a few articles that got published in the magazine.
With the drastic (and, IMHO, ridiculous) increase in prices of all cars older than 15 years (Just saw a 1989 Toyota Camry the other week for $3500, and a 1990 Olds Cutlass for $1900) the chances of my ever owning anything earlier than about a 1980 decreased rapidly. Just because it's over 20 years old doesn't make it "classic, rare, or desireable." Gone are the days when I could purchase a '72 Eldo convertible that needed work, for a couple grand.
It's hard to run a club about a vehicle that has had over 100 years of different models, and keep everybody happy with only one publication issued once per month, when each period of the company's history really could support a magazine of its own.
I'm not a member anymore, but for other reasons than the Self-Starter.
I have the same problem you are describing with the 8th Air Force Historical Society Magazine, which I subscribe to because Grandpa was a B-17 pilot. There are a lot of pictures of people standing around at meets, reunions, etc., but now they are the 2nd and 3rd generation removed from the pilots and soldiers -- most of them are dead! Why I would want to see a picture of the grandson of a guy who flew B-17s. I could look in the mirror and see that.
They also mention a lot of stuff and allow for submissions, but it is done without historical context. For example, a recent article including a coded letter from Curtis LeMay to Allied High Command. Guess what, they didn't bother to decipher the code or explain what the letter was about, so I was left scratching my head wondering why it had taken up an entire page in the magazine. I could have gotten much more out of it had there been some cursory explanation.
The older I get, the more I realize that Clubs are for socializing, and if I want to learn something, I either have to teach myself, or look at a book, etc.
Just my 0.02.
CEC #20099
Doug Houston is a true elder statesman of the CLC. I had the pleasure of meeting him in the early 70`s, when he had a shop in Detroit. He also was involved in Press Cameras, Radios, Theatre Organ Music, as well as a few V16`s. His GN issue comments are right on. Is this a social club or a `greased knuckles` club? If you want to see a real nice magazine, The Buick Bugle`s current issue is on 1925`s. Pete Phillips does a great job of putting together themed issues, and getting them out quickly. Original cars are always shown. I wrote a 1920 Buick article for him a few yrs ago, & it was published in a few months, & he sent me a complementary issue first class mail, right off the press. The Self Starter does none of this.
I want these comments to be taken constructively, but I am sure I gored a few oxes. Compare the magazines, befote you spam me. CEC.
I agree with Doug and Forrest in that age of members and their cars is the driving force in club publications. In 1946 when I was 14 my dad and I started collecting cars. My dads interest was in the early brass car. My interest as I grew older was in the 40s car and my son`s interest today is with the mussel cars of the early 70s. I have restored many cars over the years and have belonged to many different clubs and it has been interesting to see the publications change as the club members got younger. Nothing wrong with that as it keeps a club growing with new members with newer cars. My problem with most of the publications except possibly the AACA is too many pictures and not enough articles on the mechanics of a car. As each year passes you will loose expertise in any club on their early cars and us older fellers give way to newer members with newer cars. Down the road, I hope far down the road, the only thing left on expertise for the older cars is what has been published in the past. So if the club has a choice to publish articles written by club members or pictures, please weight your choice towards articles. Someone out there today or down the road will say after reading the article" Just what I was looking for, thank you"
I feel somewhat responsible for starting this thread. Doug Houston has a theory of how the Sixty-Special was named concerning the 1938 60 Series Cadillacs. He wanted to put this in the Self-Starter as an article adding information to my recent 1938-1970 Sixty-Special Article.
As members know, In the last 3 or 4 years I have had three major articles, The '34-'37 V-16's, The Last ('38-'40) V-16's and The Sixty-Special article. It took an average of 2 years from the time I submitted them to when they were printed. I also have smaller submitted articles now waiting some months to to be published. As I restore my own cars, I feel, like Doug , that I can write about them. Based on my experience, I told Doug that it would be better to submit an letter to the editor, as it would be printed sooner than waiting months or even years before you see an article in print.
In past years, the Self-Starter editors begged for articles, now we seem to have a iarge backlog.
As to the later cars, I have owned '80's,'90's and a 2001 Cadillacs as everyday drivers but I summed my feelings up in a reply I did in a recent thread about Elvis and his Cadillacs..... If Elvis Presley were just starting out today, What kind of cars would he have ?
How about that Slick?
Terry Wenger
TO PAYTON 1960:
Ya know, you have a point. after 51 years of membership, maybe I should slip silently into the night. There are times when I do feel in the way of you young hotdogs.
One thing that most of the membership doesn't understand. The membership number has no meaning at all. When I first took membership in 1959, the members numbered posibly, fewer than 300. It was only a year old. The CLC never assigned membership numbers until 'way late, and just as renewals that came in whatever year it was. Just look at Norm Uhlir's number. He was one of the founders of the club, and his number would have been around 3 or 4.
So, if I don't forget to renew some day soon, Payton, ole buddy, I'll have help from Ma nature.
In my opinion it’s a true shame that the older vehicles are slowly but surely being forgotten. Cars and Parts is now done, HMN is hanging in there but how long…..
I’m 32 but back in high school a buddy and I would frequent a local junkyard that was basically a hang out for “old timers†though predominately hot rodders. The yard was LOADED with cool cars from the 30’s to 60’s and that was it. We would go to hang around and I remember one conversation with the yard owner about an old neon recapping sign……I liked it a lot and he asked “why…you aren’t old enough to remember that?†That’s when it occurred to me that I liked that stuff for different reasons than a lot of people. Some people like things because they remember them and others because they just think it’s cool. Why I do….no clue….my father hates cars….washing, working on etc. “As long as it roles….†Is what I heard growing up.
As for the affordability factor….ya, there are a lot of guys out there (older) that make the older cars very unattainable for young people and thus uninteresting. Once at Hershey I came across a vendor of Mopar parts (when I was a teenager) that loved the fact I was a young guy with a DeSoto…..he cut me a break on a lot of NOS chrome when he realized I wasn’t loaded. You guys that hoard parts…….want young people to appreciate this stuff? Then don’t make your fellow retirees the only people that can afford the stuff…
Mike
I want to address Terry's point about the backlog of articles.
Publish them all on the internet! This is the 21st century. Cadillac is pushing 110 years old.
There are no space limitiations for for an online magazine. That would save the club enormous amounts of time and money. Articles could be organized, indexed and accessed at the touch of a button and the articles would remain fresh and relevant for as long as the club continues. No more rummaging through vermin-ridden cardboard boxes looking for an article about which only a vague memory exists.
Someone recently suggested an index for the SS so that they could look up old articles. That problem would not exist if published online.
Half the people in this thread say they toss the SS in a pile and never look at it anyway. Why waste resources on printed material?
Mention has been made about attracting younger members. The web is where they will be looking for information. For those who prefer a hard copy they can hold in their hand, that's what the printer is for.
Mike, I don't think the prewar vehicles are being forgotten, it's just that as others have said they are becoming increasingly out of reach for many enthusiasts due to auction fever.
Doug brings up a very good point, the member number of four digits or less means nothing. Doug joined in 1959 and his number is 2257, I joined 8 years later and my number is 1800, and Norm Uhlir, one of the founders has a number of 1639. Now this probably doesn't mean much to the members who joined later, but it sure does to those who have put lots of time into this club building it into what it is today, right Barry? It would be nice if some time could be spent to starighten this out. I think these older members deserve some more recognition.
Otto or Forrest or whatever, as I remember, you are not a member, the Self-Starter is a member matter so........
Terry
Gentlemen, to be a bit sappy; You do not "slip silently into the night", you do not "go quietly into the night"... but "Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.".
You have led. You made sure that there is something that follows, you have allowed and created the present, assuring there is also a future that knows of it's past. It may seem that the past gets shorter, less distant. It does. Everybody's past is only as far as they can see behind themselves. But the past doesn't get diminished. It doesn't get lost or forgotten. And people who know of it do not become irrelevant as long as they do not go gently. It appears we have founders that intend to do just that.
I think we all need to listen...
Otto,
Yes....perhaps I should have worded differently.....to those that already know about them they will not be forgotten. But, as publications cease to exist and educate.......people who know will become fewer and farther between. I have a lot of friends/family my age that have no clue what was built at one time in this country.....that's a sin in my opinion.....just a small sampling of the history our country is loosing....but that's another thread!
Mike
But the good thing is if I'm one of the few who know.....one day I should have an awesome car collection since no one will want the stuff!
.....one day I should have an awesome car collection
It looks like you already do.
Quote from: Terry Wenger on September 13, 2010, 04:50:09 PM
Otto or Forrest or whatever, as I remember, you are not a member, the Self-Starter is a member matter so........
Terry
... so what? Tell me Terry.
This is a discussion broadly concerning the Self Starter, the future of the hobby and more directly the future of the CLC . Are you saying that simply because someone is a non-CLC member he must not have any ideas or suggestions worth consideration?
How do you expect to attract new members with such an arrogant and condescending attitude? Perhaps you're not interested in attracting new members because of the change they represent? Perhaps they are a reminder to you that time marches on and the future will leave you behind?
Do you believe that only a member of the CLC can advance the goals and purposes of the club?
News Flash Terry, there are more non-CLC members in the world promoting and preserving the Cadillac marque than there are CLC members. In fact, many of these non members do more to support the CLC than some of those on the roster. If you think a check for $35 a year is the only way to support the club you're sadly mistaken.
PNDLR:
I am in contact with Steve quite often. I also spoke with him at length at the GN in Kansas City last month, and have emailed him since. I merely told Doug of my experience. You sent me the pictures of your 56-60S to use in my article in '07 which I thank you for and I sent the article in at that time. In that time period things changed; for example another GM Custom 60S was "found" (The Duchess) and I'm sure some of the cars pictured had changed owners. I believe that article was one that Steve wanted.
Terry
Maybe it isn't a good way to support the organization, but it's a Hell of a good start.
But after all, if the milk is free, why buy the cow?
Ya wanna add up all of the membership dues I paid over the years? How about all the other paying members? This message forum wouldn't be here at all, if we had all riders, and no pullers. I've paid a thumpin' lot more for things that I got less out of.
You make the mistaken assumption that any non-member is a rider and not a puller. There are plenty of non-members who do more of the pulling for the club than a lot of the members.
Name ten, please.
Before things get totally out of hand, everyone has to realise that as Doug and others have mentioned in the past, this Message Board is paid for by the CLC Members and nobody else.
All CLC Members want the Message Board to Continue, and whilst we are willing to encourage Guests to visit, and both draw on, and share knowledge, it is of little encouragement when non CLC Members try and tell us how to run our show.
This Message Forum is to be used only to advance the purposes of the Cadillac & LaSalle Club, which are to develop, publish and exchange information pertaining to Cadillacs and LaSalles, to encourage the maintenance, preservation and restoration of Cadillacs and LaSalles, and to promote social fellowship among Club members.
Now, back to the matter of this thread which is referring to the Self Starter and Doug's thoughts.
The Self Starter is also paid for by Financial CLC Members and supported by the Advertisers and nobody else.
The Self Starter is the only "Official CLC Publication" published by the governing body of the Club, and it is through this publication that the many thousands on Members world-wide, receive information pertaining to their organisation.
Doug, as well as any other Member has the right to express their thoughts on the content of the self Starter, and as this forum is one means of getting his thoughts out there, fast and without being edited by an editor, and the feed-back will quickly get to the Editor of the Magazine.
Granted, the Internet site is growing, and will continue to grow, but the Publication reaches a far wider audience than a lot of people realise. Placing a Letter to the Editor won't appear in print for a long time, due to publication constraints, but here, in the electronic world, it is instantaneous.
One just has to look at the International Directory, to see just how many Members there are. And, a lot of these members don't have access to computers, so the Club has to cater for everyone.
To put the Self Starter out as an On-line package will come one day, but call me elitist, I believe it should be for the eyes of Financial Members, and friends that Financial Members want to share it with.
Even the basic Daily Newspaper, one has to buy to read it, and the On-line Publishers are starting to realise that they will have to charge people to read the on-line content.
I congratulate Doug for bringing his thoughts forward, as it is these "Forward Thinkers", that got the Club going in the first place.
Bruce. >:D
PS. They initially limited the cut-off year to pre WW2, but have since seen the light, and now it is much later than that.
PPS. I also congratulate Doug, and other "Elder" Members for getting into the Computer Age, unlike my parents-in-law, who flatly refuse. They love getting snail-mail.
Bruce just extended my thoughts on this matter and certainly made it crystal clear who is sponsoring and paying for the "Self-Starter" and this forum. Accordingly, he is 100% correct in that we do not want non-members telling "us how to run our show", as he nicely worded it.
I am all for the CLC members on this issue, even though acknowledge that many non-members contribute to our discussions. I was a dues-paying CLC member back in 1968 or 1969 for a few years and received much help from the members at the time in restoring my 1939 La Salle 4-door sedan. The club and the publications have since greatly improved, although admittedly the focus lately is on newer cars. Most members enjoy the articles in the "Self-Starter", while some may have other preferences. However we are all in the same club/hobby and should consider the interests of our fellow members, and to a lesser extent to non-members, who are active on this forum. Maybe some upcoming articles can be directed to the older cars on occasion, as a good "mix" isn't a bad idea. I will leave this up to the editors.
Growth of the CLC didn't come easy and it didn't come without some great efforts on the part of the many Cadillac-LaSalle Club members, some of whom are deceased. The annual dues paid by such members certainly entered into the picture. When you see a post from a member with a 4-digit member number, take note, as they were the founders of all of this and are still taking an active part. All members should proudly display their CLC member number - I certainly do so.
While I was somewhat out of the hobby and the CLC for about 30 years, due to extreme business obligations, as soon as I purchased my 1939 LaSalle Convertible about 4 plus years ago, the first thing that I did was to immediately send in for a current CLC membership for the following reasons:
(1) I wanted to receive the monthly publication and the Directory so that I could look up old friends, locate sources of supply and parts; and:
(2) I wanted to support the club, as felt this was the only way that a club can manage and afford this forum, other club-related events, and the "Self-Starter" which I enjoy every month. I especially enjoy the coverage of the Grand Nationals and the classifieds. The Authenticity Manuals are extremely helpful and informative.
I have other cars (2 Buicks and 2 Pontiacs) and yes, shortly after their purchase, I joined both the Buick Club and the POCI Club for the same reasons. I am a lifetime member of the AACA. I could take the position that I won't waste my money paying dues, but it seems logical that if I am going to ask for (and receive) help on the forums, the least that I can do is to contribute the small amount of annual dues. I feel this is the correct approach at minimal cost. If all of us ceased to pay dues, goodbye this Forum, the "Self-Starter" and the many events that are sponsored throughout the year. Food for thought . . . .
I cannot tell others what to do, as that is their own decision, but certainly want to make it clear that I acknowledge and greatly appreciate those who have given their support over many years, thus helping to cover their share of the expenses of this and other clubs to which I belong.
As for non-members, your feedback is greatly appreciated and your ideas may be considered, but the wishes of the club members certainly must have more bearing on any decisions that are to be made in regard to club matters.
Fred
Quote from: Otto Skorzeny on September 13, 2010, 08:56:37 PM
You make the mistaken assumption that any non-member is a rider and not a puller. There are plenty of non-members who do more of the pulling for the club than a lot of the members.
Oh yea, I see tons of members helping organize the CLC Museum project, and plan Grand Nationals, and put out the Self-Starter, and create/send the regional club mailings, and put on the local shows, and organize driving tours, and on and on. Give me a break. Either join the club and get involved or don't. But please realize that even the "rider" members are at the very least paying for this website, and the associated forums, with their $35/year.
Clearly, you do not have to be a CLC Member to promote the Cadillac mark, but it seems pretty basic that members of this club should make the decisions of this club.
Again, please name ten non-CLC members who do more of the pulling for the club, and the load they are hauling, because maybe someone could organize a fund raiser to pay for their memberships as they are apparently very important to the future of this club.
Mr. Houston, I think your comments are generally valid. I also think you realize that the Grand National issue is not representative of all issues of Self-Starter. Personally, I think that "people photos" are important for the social mixing function of a hobby club. I'd like to be able to recognize people in advance if I ever meet them for the first time. Maybe you already know many of them well. That managers and achievers get recognition with some photos is just basic journalism.
Everything changes. The last two big events in Southern California Region have had no La Salles at all and less than 20% of the entries were pre-WWII cars. That disappoints me, since I favor the prewar cars. The greater number of postwar cars in this club (roughly 3:1) is also reflected in the Self-Starter.
I enjoyed some of the not-too-polished articles in the Edith Childs Self-Starter, especially some of the technical ones, but they wouldn't help the magazine win any Golden Quill Awards. These days, Self-Starter consistently wins Golden Quill Awards. One reason is that it is well balanced, with a mix of technical articles, restoration articles, historical articles, "Pride and Joy" cars (aka "La Galleria"), club, museum, and foreign affiliate news, and ads.
Today's Self-Starter is different from the Edith Childs product of the 1970s in that (1) it contains more postwar cars - there are 30 years more Cadillacs to cover; (2) it's much more expensive to produce, not including the postage; (3) the production quality is much higher and there are more pages; (4) the pages are not used for reprinting color charts or exploded views from parts manuals; (5) there is now a museum that needs some ink; (6) there are more foreign affiliates that need some ink; (7) there is an editor's column that usually uses a full page; (8 there is less coverage of recently held regional events; (9) more space is devoted to finding the regions and their directors and (10) there is no longer an annual edition. If it were up to me, I'd reduce numbers (7) and (9) in favor of occasionally republishing some of the old technical articles but with today's production quality. However the 40 pages get used, though, someone's interests are not going to be covered from time to time, whether it is the brass era aficionado, the engine rebuilder, the student of body styling, or the 1980s stretch limo collector.
Well said Jon Riley - I agree with your comments. Members must get together on this matter and voice their opinions if we are to continue with this forum as it now stands. We cannot possibly have non-members "run our show" as Bruce clearly explained. Non-members are welcome, but should not be continually complaining or telling us how and what to do with our forum, our magazine, or our club events. The next step might be to restrict access to this forum to CLC members only with passwords, etc. Most of us do not really want this, so maybe a "softer approach" by all on this forum might be helpful.
Fred
As a former member of several years who has just come back to this forum, I must say, the discussion here has degenerated to the point that I would not consider renewing my membership, and have scrapped that idea as of a few weeks ago.
To read the posts now, there is so much sarcasm, veiled commentary, and other negativity, it really is a shame. Looking in, as a potential new member, I definitely wouldn't and don't see any value-add to send off my $35.
Reference the fact that threads about shows, car questions, etc., have typically less than 100 views, while these "argument" threads end up with 400-500 views each, and are always at the top of the forum. Making it look as though the club is always in flux, or at each other's throats.
Keep building walls around your community, and eventually you'll build yourselves a fortress of Irrelevance. Then you can trade your $90 LaSalle taillights in peace, without being bothered with people who want to be involved in the hobby, but don't have as much money as you do.
Okay, I'm a new guy for about five years now and I'm working on 72 years of age. I love the '30s thru 60's cars as collector cars. Have owned 70's cars to our present 2006 CTS. I purchased a '37 Cadillac sedan because of the V-12 engine thinking that was real history, and will be fun to drive. I have over $40,000 in it already and it is not even close to completion. It is what I have, so that is what I'm working on (would rather have a '34). Needs all new glass, paint, and several other chrome parts, body work, and etc. But, my 25 year old son says yea, it will be fine, if you like that sort of thing when its finished. Things, values, interests change with time, as we all know. About the CLC Self Starter. I don't like it anymore for the past year or so. Can't wait to get it but finished with it in a few minutes. Hardly makes it from the post box to the living room. But I drag it out a night when I can't sleep hoping I missed something interesting. Find that I now can often purchase a 30's driver much cheaper than what I have in my own car.
It may be time to consider increasing the membership dues to $50.00 a year and divide the Self Starter into pre and post war sections - make it more pages, and have some beef in it for our older cars.
Thank you,
Ty Stinson
CLC22330
Many good points of interest here - The comments and feedback are as diverse as the membership itself. Hats off to Steve Stewart for the work in putting together each monthly issue of the Self Starter. Its not an easy task. I think the material covered in the SS will reflect the interests of the CLC members at any given time. Thirty years ago articles reflected the interests of the then current members. Today there are a lot members who own and have interest in post 1960s era Cadillacs. That being said, there are still members like myself (somewhat younger, 40 somethings) that own and have interest in older models, but I understand that as time marches on the overall content of most publications will progress as well. I don't think its much different than most of your local cars shows. You'll notice today a lot more 60s and 70s cars on the field than 10-20 years ago too.
If I had my way the SS would only contain articles on 1950s Cadillacs - just kidding. I still enjoy the SS as much as I did when I joined 15 years ago as a 28 year old kid with his first Cadillac, a 1964 Fleetwood. Once I had more money I graduated to a 1956 Cadillac. And if I can ever afford one I'd like to get a 1941 Cadillac. I have to say that the CLC was very welcoming to me as a new member years ago. Not only did my friendships in the CLC keep me interested in the club it kept me interested in owning Cadillacs in general. If that welcoming spirit lives on, so too will the club and its membership rosters.
Dan
I have been a member of this club since 1978. I started out with sixties cars when they were just used iron and gradually worked back to the prewar years.
I have never met Doug Houston, but I have admired his club spirit and his work for all of these years. I think that he is right about the Self Starter. It is still a good publication, but it was more interesting years ago when the cars were less perfect but were loved and worked on by regular guys.
Unfortunately, this is the way that the entire hobby has gone and not just our club.
Telling somebody to "go into the night" or whatever is, in my book, the same as telling him to drop dead.
Nobody deserves that kind of disrespect, especially Mr. Doug Houston.
A person who uses the pseudonym of a long-dead Nazi commando instead of his real name and who can't be bothered to invest $35.00 to join our club should not have the nerve to mock Mr. Houston, the Sef Starter or anything else about our club.
This is our forum. Guests should be welcome to contribute in a constructive manner but not to criticize or ridicule.
I joined this club close to 4 years main reason was, one to expand and promote the CLC motto for “enthusiasts to maintain, preserve, and restore collectible Cadillacs and LaSalles…..“, and two to inquired and exchanged any topic with other experts in the field, again following the general overview of the club.
Once I joined the message board I was amazed as to the exchanged of technical tips across all participant members and non-members alike and the tremendous amount of knowledge from the same that was made available across the board. With that I maintained my current membership active and as time when by and with my tinkering I hope in also returning the same favor I received onto others, again in keeping the spirit going.
Frankly as of lately I have become extremely disappointed from reading few messages/comments on the board and the lack of civility from members and non-members alike. If a message/comment is place in the open board we should expect to receive several points of views from all users, after all it is an open forum. We should encourage all for their feedback to enhance the club products or not is our choice. Or we could take a stand by restricting access to the board to just members only, and thus everything stays in-house.
If we close our doors, what type of message are we passing alone to upcoming owners, “sorry we are a prestige club and if you want to play in our playground you must become a member�
I personally do not believe this club lasted this long just by the financial contribution from the membership, I do believe the longevity is due to contribution by both members and non-members in keeping the spirit alive of restoring our classis cars. Sharing our knowledge and knowhow and preserving them should be our focal point.
We all eventually will be gone someday but these beauties will keep going throughout future generations. We have and will continue losing this valuable data if we do not take the time in preserving them.
I do not care if you are the founder of this club or members #1000000 or a non-member or what name or handle they choose to have, we should all treat everyone with a little respect ..! Let’s go back to the original roots of this chapter shall we..!
"Telling somebody to "go into the night" or whatever is, in my book, the same as telling him to drop dead.
Nobody deserves that kind of disrespect, especially Mr. Doug Houston."
My comments were not telling him to "Drop Dead" Now after looking at it again poor choice of words. I sincerely apologize for my statement!! What my point was if you are not happy leave. I am sure that Mr. Houston has forgot more than I will ever know about early Cadillacs. I thank you Mr. Houston for your contributions over the years. I can tell you with the way this forum is going I will not be around as long as you have...
The point of this club is to promote and share knowledge of the Cadillac brand... It is now more like a school yard brawl with the cool older kids against the new kids!
PEACE !!!!
As a former member, I still have plenty of knowledge to contribute. That's the reason I keep coming back -- to look for posts where my knowledge might help point someone in the right direction.
However, lately, I have not contributed ANY knowledge, because half of what I post gets deleted for minor technical violations "You forgot to put a period after your middle initial, etc." Also, if I don't post my full name, my posts will get deleted, while others who post under "handles" are allowed to remain. Not a pleasant environment.
So I've taken the approach that I will not re-join the club as I had planned to, nor will I share my knowledge, until some things are ironed out.
I think the annual directory alone, and the use of this site to talk to new members, former members, non-members, guests, anyone, are worth $35.00. Some of my best contacts and friends regarding my car needs, parts, information, over the past five years are members or guests. We were all guests for a while, remember?
But, I have lost interest in the "Self Starter" because of the focus on later cars and big game events. I would much rather pay $50.00 a year and see the "Self Starter" divided into two parts covering Pre and Post War sections. I hope the magazine could be made with more pages to include member and non-member articles. I do save the magazine, and if restoration and/or repair articles were included I could tab the pages and store the magazines for reference anytime. I want to read what people have to say and see more photos of older cars, but not mainly look at photos of events most of us will never attend.
Thank you,
Ty Stinson
CLC22330
Okay, I give up. The CLC "Self Starter", in my opinion, is a free magazine about the club, thank you for that. That is fine with me. For information regarding cars of my interest, I have been purchasing Hemmings "Classic Car" magazine. I may not like every issue but most of the time it has what I'm looking for and the "Self Starter" will continue to let me know what is going on in the CLC.
Ty Stinson
CLC22330
I’ve just recently discovered Hemmings magazine….quite good. One last comment from me on this. I’m fairly new to the club and as others have noticed that there is much turbulence in this forum apparently as of lately. This is the first time I’ve ever experienced negativity associated with this hobby in general. I can’t remember a single negative dealing I’ve had in this hobby at a meet, show, etc….but those are all face to face dealings. The computer age has brought many people closer but its very different interacting blind. I’m sure many of the “conversations†on this forum would have been much tamer had they been face to face. I’ve been interested in cars since I as barely a teenager but over the last 20 years I have seen oceans of change in the hobby. Model A’s that once dominated show fields are now relegated to storage…..
One final thought….some people here have probably checked this out at one time or another: www.packardinfo.com
If you haven’t….check it out. I’m not saying look at Packards…..but the forum section is quite good and well put together. There is a lot of great technical expertise here for the early stuff and latter. Another observation is that there is a much lower occurrence of argument…..perhaps due to the segregation of info??? At any rate this forum (CLC) is as well quite good…..but that one is pretty impressive….
Mike
Hello everyone!
Some topics are going to be a little sensitive (but we need to not lose sight of the objectives) Revisiting this particular issue, it has been about the gradual change to the content of the Self Starter (due to time marching on and the increasing content of newer models).
Suggestions have been made including Ty's (have Pre and Post War Self Starter sections). I put up " do a survey? - form a chapter? - get a perspective from Steve?".
Why am I interested in this topic? Because to be honest, I'm only interested in '30's - '50's Cadillacs I love mixing with all the club members and going to meets but my passion is the older cars. With Doug's post, it got my attention and I wondered if there were others that thought similarly. If so, is there anything that can be done to better meet the passion/wants/needs of the club? If so, great (ie, are there any constructive ideas out there that should be looked at?). It's absolutely fine and healthy to raise this issue and this is the place to do it. So, are there any other suggestions?
Regards, Ross.
Just going to add a little more....(don't want my last comment to be perceived as off the topic as Ross redirected....)
I guess what I was leading into was this: As Doug instigated the self-starter at one point had much more of a technical edge, maybe it doesn't have to be.....its not that thick, and the audience is broad. Why not make this site the technical database like the link I gave above is? Technical articles that I say to myself....."this is great.....when I do this in 2,3, 4 years from now." Then I can't find the magazine or my wife threw it out.....etc.....
Having a technical database here is much more accessible.....
Food for thought.....
Mike
Steven,
I know....but that one is very complete. There isn't anything I can't service on my Packard that isn't there or easily attainable. I guess what I'm saying is.....the Self Starter from lets say January 1962 that had a great technical article on servicing a vacuum antenna....I wasn't born yet and don't know of its existence.....
How about a segment of the forum where technical articles are written by the "old-timers" that educate me on all the stuff I'll need in say 20, 30, 40, 50 (hopefully) years from now when these guys are gone. I'll still have to work on my car. Publications are becoming very scarce that specially deal with all the nuances these old cars have. As I said earlier fewer and farther between.......lot of knowledge being lost as that generation leaves us. Lot of self-starters I never saw.......it would be nice if I didn't have to go to yard sales (scans of old ones....member only login??)......and guys like Doug had a venue to educate that is here forever....
Mike
I will make a suggestion that on future issues of the Self Starter there could be a page or two devoted to old articles that appeared in the early issues of the Self Starter. Also post that early article in PDF form on this web site under News Letters or a heading of its own. The early issues are scarce but what early issues I have seen contain some valuable info for present owners or ones to follow. Preserve the expertise while we can.
Mike,
Are you suggesting something like an archive section for Self-Starter articles? I think that would be an excellent idea.
As I recall, the Annual Directory has a listing of past technical articles in it. The problem is that one must locate the back issues (assuming you have them or ever did), or order back issues themselves.
It seems to me that the more recent articles would have been submitted digitally, so they should still exist somewhere in easily transferable form. The task, then, would be for a very dedicated person to transcribe all of those early articles into digital format, for posting in a giant Cyber-Archive. I wonder if scans would be adequate? How readable would they be?
Should such an archive be created, I would be willing to devote some time to scan or re-type the some articles. If enough of us step up and contribute, it could be done in a reasonable amount of time.
The first step would be creating the archive itself. Perhaps the Suggestion Box forum would be the place to start. I'll be right over...
Jim
I would be willing to volunteer time as well if the consensus agreed.....I would love to become more involved with the club (may get me moving on the car more too!).
To me it seems there is a very limited amount of space in the Self-Starter to make everyone happy. You could make the whole issue technical and pre-war and I would be thrilled but that wouldn't make everyone happy. Online there is unlimited space to make everyone happy and well informed with everything Cadillac. I know there is a small segment of the club that frequent the site....maybe that needs to be changed too.
Not to keep brining up the Packard site.....but I'll say this, I've been very surprised how many young people there own Parckards. Did the site itself help generate interest......I don't know. But it gave me some hope that one day in the future when I drive one of my cars to a show I won't be completely surrounded by rice burners and space ships that sound like hairdryers.....
Mike
Good point, Steve.
Maybe password protected, or something...
Jim
Jim,
Would it be easier if there is a "CLC member" only area where any member can have access to them?
Registration to members only area should follow the same process as it is now in the open area, just one more level of access verification. Just a suggestion, the tools should be in place with the current config just add one restricted access.
Also as I suggestion if there are capabilities of enforcing a login every time the user gains access to the this area.
I think that it must be possible. The Mustang Club of America site can only be accessed by members, with logins (now you all know my horrible, shameful secret...). It does, however, discourage/prevent guests from even looking around the site, which may be more than we want. I suppose that there must be some happy medium.
Unfortunaletly, I am a mere moderator, whose computer skills, and website knowledge, does not go much beyond staring, dazedly, at the keyboard, wondering where that d***ed letter is. I put a suggestion in the suggestion forum, and will follow it up through channels. It would sure be an asset to have such an archive.
Jim
"As I recall, the Annual Directory has a listing of past technical articles in it. The problem is that one must locate the back issues (assuming you have them or ever did), or order back issues themselves." Jim Eccleston
Jim is partially correct. The Annual Directory does have a listing of past technical articles, but you don't have to locate the back issues. All you have to do is select the article(s) you want and contact me. My name is at the top of the listing and I have access to all of the articles and am willing to provide a copy to any CLC member by e-mail at no charge. Just please don't ask me for everything that pertains to your car. My e-mail & phone have changed since the last issue and are: donboshara@comcast.net & 386-438-5520. I'm in the Eastern Time Zone. Don Boshara
Oh, cool! This could be the solution.
And I see, Don, that I am not the only one who crosses over from Cadillacs to Mustangs.
Jim
Don Boshara is too modest (see his post above). He maintains the Technical Index of Self-Starter articles, which is included in the Annual Directory (page 29 in the 2010 Directory). He received the CLC Distinguished Service Award in 2009 for his efforts in this regard. His offer to provide copies of technical articles is outstanding.
Also keep in mind that the CLCMRC has copies of all back issues of the Self-Starter as well as hugh amounts of sales and service information, copies of which are available for a small fee (or donation to the CLCMRC). They are in the process of digitizing all this information, but it is a monumental task. Contact Paul Ayres for details.
Thats great to know this stuff is available and there is a movement to digitize info.....
One catch though that that comes to mind......when Doug started this it made me curious as to what the magazine once was. I took for granted and just thought that the current model of the self starter was what it always was (in content). Call me crazy but if all installments were available online, I would read them all.....over a period of a few years though. I'm just curious and a history buff and would never fathom asking anyone that monumental task for my individual curiosity. Great to know though....
Mike
A few years back I quit the CLC due to the concentration on newer cars in the publications , and joined the CCCA and the Pierce Arrow Society, which I really enjoy. Recently a friend suggested I give the CLC a second shot, so I rejoined this summer. I first joined the CLC in about 1973 while a student at Cal-Poly SLO. However after looking at the last three issues of the self starter, I have to say Doug Huston is right . I hope the editors can give say a third of the space to the older classics and restoration issues. I love Cadillacs and La Salles, Pierce Arrows, Packards, etc..... Doug
I try to stay away from computers other than to read these CLC e-mail web sites, and to look up information. Great that you want to add information for research, review, information already presented over time. and etc.
But, I personally would like to read current articles from people working on their pre and post-war Cadillacs and LaSalles within the 30's through 50's. I don't want to read dry technical how-to-do-things (that information could be made available as some of you propose for when we need it). I would enjoy short discussion topics and a photo or two from persons working on their cars and solving problems. There is nothing better than a good car magazine in hand when you are relaxing, sitting in the garage with your car, in the yard, or late at night in bed. Some people can't do without their newspaper and a cup of coffee. I would sure enjoy a good CLC Self Starter magazine with more articles on these cars to read with a cold beer (or cold coke if you like), or a glass of milk or whatever; but looking forward to the next Self Starter as I read again the current one.
Ty Stinson
CLC22330
I much prefer articles on the pre-war cars myself. The late 50s and on up of my youth were too big then for my youthful tastes and still are. I realize they are a huge part of our club, but the old cars are still out there too. I agree, all the club meeting pictures are of little importance to keeping our cars going, or learning about them. Maybe a section on the forum could be devoted to that, and the SS devoted to the "stuff" of the cars, our first interest.
Jim Stamper CLC#13470
I was away for a day or so, and I have tro say that this thiong really got to monumental proportions!
I have known that the museum has a complete set of the Self-Starter. At one time, I re-printed some of mine and gave them to the then-editor so as to have the whole set on hand. I think that the set at the museum and res. center is Norm Uhlir's.
Early issues of the pub were sort of crude, as one would expect. Contributors were members who told of their adventures in finding, studying, and restoring their cars. The year span of the club was 1902-1942. For me, it was made to order, as I had only one car; the 41-60S that I am currently having repainted. I already had done a lot of work on the car, and it was amusing to look back on some of the conclusions and impressions I had from the car.
In the days when I first joined the outfit, Cadillac had an unbelievable stock of parts for the 30-42 model cars. I was able to use the sales tax number of my father's business to get dealer price from Cadilllac.
Articles were welcomed fore the SS from Agnes Uhlir, who was the editor. Since I have all of the Rider radio service books, I was the "radio technician", and wrote a radio service article every month for quite some time. It sharpened my writing talent. All of that stuff was typed out on a regular typewriter, both by me and by Agnes.
Well anyway, I never thought that this thing would blow into something this gargantuan. Ya just never know.....
I think this thread taps into a problem that a lot of car clubs are confronting: Does it make sense to have a club that is about a particular brand of car if that brand of car encompasses a very wide range of cars over a very long period of time? I'm also in the Packard Club, and the Packard club has it relatively easy on that score: The fact that the brand went out of business in 1958 means that there are no newer cars to discuss and more commonality among members. But fortunately Cadillac is going on strong, so we're stuck with that diversity of interest among us and having to compromise among the interests of the many club members.
This has been an interesting topic and definitely not limited to the Cadillac Club or the Self Starter. Many have mentioned the Hemmings Classic Car magazine which I subscribe to and in each issue you have those complaining when they spotlight newer cars, and the expected newer car enthusiasts in return putting those down that put them down for their interest in "newer" cars.
For me personally, I look at the fact that Cadillac has survived and prospers as a WIN-WIN for all Cadillac enthusiasts. No disrespect to Packard owners or other brands that were discontinued decades ago, but by having a current and relevant brand that the 20 and 30 something year olds can identify with and get behind from "their time", we have a great opportunity to continue to draw current and future generations to the Cadillac Brand. Once these younger and newer Cadillac owners get hooked on the Cadillac brand, they normally have great respect for the older cars, but they also don't like to be put down for their enthusiasm for their car or model year. Instead of trying to set up barriers to these newer Cadillac owners, I would encourage everyone to remember they are continuing the Cadillac Legacy.
I would also add that time moves on.
Consider this:
In 1940 a 35 year old car would be a 1905 model car.
In 1970 a 35 year old car would be a 1935 model car.
In 2010 a 35 year old car would be a 1975 model car.
I'm 45 years old and guess I'm kinda in the middle of the pack. I grew up in the late 60's through the 80's and remember the cars of that time. I also always remember for me the 50's cars were the cool cars, but also connected with the cars of 'my time'. In fact in 1995 I bought my first Cadillac a 1964 Coupe DeVille. 1964 is significant as its the year I was born and of course feel a great connection to that car. Also, as mentioned already in this thread you have to consider cost, availability and maintenance. Most 20 or 30 somethings (and this 40 something too) is looking for something practical in terms of overall upkeep. Expecting most younger owners to run out and buy 1902 to 1940's cadillacs is not realistic. The 70's and 80's cars are what most grew up with and what they "start" with.
My passion is 1963 and 1964 Cadillacs...so much so that I formed a Chapter, however, I appreciate all Cadillacs from 1902 to 2011 models and I applaud all of those that have a passion for specific years, body styles, eras, etc. Cadillac is a proud name and feel a kinship to any fellow Cadillac owner regardless if they have a single cylinder vintage 1 cylinder, or a 2011 Escalade Hybrid or an XLR. I'm like everyone else and have my favorites but I feel connected to other Cadillac owners and the last thing you will find me doing is putting a fellow Cadillac owner down because their passion is not my exact passion.
OK..so this started off as a comment about the Self Starter. I've enjoyed it since I became a member in the late 1990's. Some issues are better than others, but as running another type club for 8 years, and now running our chapter, I will say it's always easy to sit back and complain...the real difference is to get involved, be proactive and work to improve things. If you are an older car enthusiast and your articles are not getting posted you have a legitimate gripe and I will personally stand beside you and complain myself. If, on the other hand, you are an old car enthusiast and are not writing articles, making contacts and letting it be known there is still great interest in these earlier cars, then you can share part of the blame. I see more and more 1960's and 1970's cars of my era being spotlighted in the Self Starter and I will my self proactively continue to work to see even more of these cars included as it is my passion and what I'm into. I do believe we can all get behind our "passions" in a positive proactive way without putting someone else or their car down. I would like to see us continue what past president Glenn Brown advocated in making this a inclusive club for all that are passionate about the Cadillac Brand.
I've only just stumbled on this thread and skimmed through the four pages, so I have missed some of the contributions. I've been a CLC member for [I think] about twelve years now. Prior to that a friend of mine was a member in the 1980's and I read a lot of Self Starters then. My main interest is the 50's cars [though I'm not keen on 57's and 59's], but I don't expect the magazine to cater solely for my taste. As for articles it is the technical ones that I really like, especially when they also show the development of the design of the finished car. These don't have to be from my preferred era, I find great interest in the way people have fixed things and got round problems. These type of articles , I feel have been few and far between lately. I used to enjoy Bentwrench. I have always found the GN issues a bit boring, but I do feel they are necessary - the GN needs to be shown in photos in the mag. The articles that cover what meals have been eaten on a tour etc. bore me ridgid! I always enjoyed Steve's editorial, mainly because he was writing about his own experiences of Cadillacs whilst growing up in the era that I am interested in. I would like more factual articles [like in Collectible Automobile - which I buy and read cover to cover regardless what car is being written about]. However, I will continue to be a member and support the club and I do want to make it clear that I do still look forward to the mag arriving and have nothing but praise for the people that produce it - it is too easy to stand on the sidelines and criticise the people that do the work. I just wanted to say what I have enjoyed in the mag over the years.
Phil
As a member who owns a 1978 Caddy, I doubt I ever will see a write up about 78's. I just enjoy reading about all Cadillac's. Old or new.
I guess people will always want to see the cars they own in the book, but time changes all.
Roy