The Media is going wild with the news released yesterday of the Duke & Duchess of Windsor's coachbuilt '41 Cadillac (http://rmauctions.com/lots/lot.cfm?lot_id=1063841) coming to auction in NYC, Nov. 21, 2013.
Google it, and you'll see what I mean.
TG
I don't care who owned it, that's a beautiful car. Made ready for a museum, for sure.
I think that is the most beautiful car I have ever seen.
Tom,
Thanks for posting. I'd like to see some before pictures.
I don't care a thing about the 68 Eldo Elvis car, but a sure hope they did the 41 correctly! There is one GLARING error on the car. Hint... it's toward the rear. Any guess's from you guys?
Did they ever contact a guy like Whit Otis on any interior questions? Who did the restoration?
Bob
That is the most magnificent specimen of a 1941 Cadillac that I have ever seen. The coachwork is incredible - very bold yet tastefully done. Imagine if they did a convertible like that.
Thanks for posting.
There at least two glaring errors in the Duchess: The stone guard should be stainless steel or chrome plated and the wheel rims should be chromed. The Duchess shared these features with the Alfred Sloan car, now owned by Whit Otis, which also began as a 62 Series car.
Terry Wenger
The styling of The Duchess reminds me of the car Cadillac built for Mr. Knudsen in 1938.
The car is owned by CLC member Morgan Murphy in Alabama. Before pics are on 1941 dream cars and customs section of The Cadillac Database:
http://www.cadillacdatabase.org/Dbas_txt/Drm40-42.htm
The pics and info on the Cadillac Database show the chromey stone guards as new and now. The wheel trim rings do seem to be missing now, or maybe obscured by lighting during its studio shots? The front left wheel seems to have some glint in the profile glam shot.
Boy, what a car!
TG
Guys,
Thanks for the info. I saw the before pics too. Pretty rough, but at least it survived. I can't tell about Terry's comments due to the bad quality promo photos.
The error I was talking about is that droopy exhaust pipe. And I'll bet it doesn't have the ceramic tip. Which vendor makes that exhaust system?
Bob
Bob,
The only thing I see is a tail pipe too long and too low. Looking at the original ’41 ¾ frontal picture the running lights appear to be clear glass not amber. In the before picture in the Database, the car appears to be blue. Does anyone know the original color?
Ralph
I really hate when this site won't load photos... I almost decided not to bother once again, but I will make another attempt and redo what was once done.
When I was at Morgan's in 2009, he had just bought 10 plus cars to get the Duchess. All were pretty cool cars, 57 Fleetwood SO, 2 57 Brougham's, 41 convertible, 59 Fleetwood, a couple 41's, a modified Fleetwood that was used in a movie as the chase car in JFK, and few more. When I looked at some of the cars in a warehouse in Birmingham where they were stored, my interest was the Brougham's. The Duchess was a mess, but the interior had some cool features that still looked OK. Those were the only shots I took at the time. There was no lighting and the flash of the camera was all that was available. The photos are not that great.
Here are the photos and it looks like I will have load one at a time.
David
number 2
number 3
number 4
number 5 and final.
Quote from: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on October 25, 2013, 08:22:14 PM
Bob,
The only thing I see is a tail pipe too long and too low. Looking at the original ’41 ¾ frontal picture the running lights appear to be clear glass not amber. In the before picture in the Database, the car appears to be blue. Does anyone know the original color?
Ralph
Ralph,
Too long, too low = droopy. Most all Cadillacs have very unobtrusive exhaust pipes & the ones of that era had a ceramic coated tip. Check out some factory photos or search the pics I posted some years ago. Re the fog lights, I've seen amber, clear & red. They might have made blue for the funeral industry. Maybe someone else knows.
Bob
David,
Thanks for posting those pics. They give me a clear idea of the cars condition. Lots of great patterns.
Bob
I am surprised by the extent of the faux wood finishing, I would have thought it would be real wood?
The restored car is a beauty...
Bob,
The car was damaged by critters while in storage in TX, but as you noted, it was good enough to use for patterns and colors. Morgan went to great length to research this car, so it should be restored as accurately has humanly possible.
David
David,
It's pretty amazing that the rear compartment cabinetry survived as well as it did, as your pics indicate. It won't happen, but I'd love to see the period documentation that comes with the car, the newsreel footage, press images of the couple with the car, etc. I really enjoy research, and Morgan must have had a great time assembling it.
Bob and all,
The body of the auction text notes Buick's use in '42 of the flow-through fenderline, and how the "Duchess" influenced that design. But only two-door Sedanets and the convertible used that design cue in '42, as C-Body sedans would have to wait till '46 for that treatment (used till '48). A couple of points; in '41 when the car was constructed, the plans for both the flowing fender/door and the '42 Fleetwood's roofline would have been locked in for some time. I've read where Buick was having difficulty hanging the sedan doors to make them work properly, and apparently the Duke's Cadillac solved those issues, but not in time for '42 production. As for the dramatic roof, how cool would it be if Morgan found images of some of the wooden bucks used to form that roof and the other panels! (I assume he did).
There is virtually no surface interruption of the car's fluid, gorgeous design, with the only trim being rocker panels and stone guards. I'm sure you've noticed the front antenna...center-mounted, swing-away above the windshield (first used by Buick in '40), rather than the fender-mount style of the '41 Cadillac? Only the rear-mounted antenna breaks the body's flowing perfection. Through his friendship with Mr. Sloan, it's pretty obvious that the Duke had full-access to GM design studios and got to pick what he liked. Sloan also knew the car would car generate gobs of publicity, and be a rolling billboard and testament to GM's power and prowess.
What I find especially interesting is that, even though wartime production was gearing up, few knew auto production would be fully-curtailed in a few short months from the car's delivery. The "Duchess" pointed the way forward, its modernity still fresh all through the war years and beyond. Her beauty really is timeless, and many, many thanks to Morgan for rescuing it.
TG
What does everyone think the car will sell for?
Jeff,
This is complicated because of the car’s uniqueness and provenance. Here goes my rationale.
The pros are: It’s a close coupled limousine, an excellent example of post Deco modern, exquisitely restored and personalized and owned by a major celebrity of the 30’s and 40’s.
The cons are: It’s a closed car that really can’t be driven much and will likely be a museum or concours ribbon magnet. The celebrity connection is not meaningful to many folks today. The two celebrities are from 75 years ago which is a geological time frame today.
Furthermore the Duke was from the UK and his “scandal†was loving someone who was not royalty. (Today that sentence sounds unintelligible)
With that, I’d say the car will sell for north of a number 1 ’57-8 Eldorado Brougham, between $200 and $225M
I have a peerless record in such evaluations. In the late 80’s I held no to my IBM stock rather than invest in a friend’s PC rental start up. I was certain he’d lose his shirt because no one needed a computer on their desk. Now I have a job ironing his shirts.
Ralph
Hey Folks:
Many thanks for your kind words about the Duchess. Since the car hasn't really been seen by the public since 1952, I've been mum about it hoping to make a big media splash when we took the covers off the old girl. Happily, it worked: she's already appeared in 145 newspapers around the world this week.
The rear stone guard and wheels, are of course, fully chromed. And that tailpipe doesn't hang down low. All the cars for the auction were shot by the same noted photographer, whose vision was to document them from the height of about 12 inches. I don't think Harley Earl meant this car to be viewed on your belly in the dark, but I digress. In any event, soon you'll see more photos soon which better reflect the authenticity of the restoration.
When I bought the car, I wasn't even positive she was the actual, long-missing, Duchess. I can't tell you how exciting it was to find that all the numbers matched. Then to find the title, then to get the package from the GM Historical Archives with Sloan's name on the delivery manifest, then to find a picture of the couple in the car, then to find historic newsreel footage of the day it was delivered, etc. Just researching the car took a solid year. But to me, a journalist by trade, the thrill is the hunt and piecing together the history and story of the car. I've talked to all of the owners except the Duke himself.
There are so many people to thank in the club who gave excellent advice and helped me piece this challenge back together over the last three years. It absolutely could not have been possible without the CLC, the authenticity manual, and the advice, support, and general well-wishing of people like Whitney Otis, Terry Wenger, Robert Schuman, David King, Ron Van Gelderen, Walter Youshock, Roy Schneider, Yann Saunders, Jim Jordan, and many, many others.
If any CLC member is in New York on November 19th-21st, I'd love you to be my guest at the auction, see the Duchess, and help calm my nerves as she crosses the block!
Morgan
Morgan,
You invitation for CLC members to join you was very thoughtful and generous.....wish I could.
I just checked the RM Catalog for more pics of the car. The estimated selling price is $500-800M. My post above estimating a $200-225M WAG price proves my prowess at getting it wrong is still intact.
Ralph
Hey Ralph,
Your guess is as good as anyone's. I'm selling it "no reserve," so there's no telling--she may go for $75,000. (God forbid). By the way, the car made the Daily Mail in England today. Check this article's pictures:
Cadillac called The Duchess, made for Edward VIII and Wallis Simpson, set to fetch £500,000 after 60 years out of the public eye
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2476915/Cadillac-The-Duchess-Edward-VIII-Wallis-Simpson-set-fetch-500k.html#ixzz2j874Icug
Morgan,
Wonderful story and pics in the Daily Mail. And a great publicity roll-out, too! The Duchess wasn't in the NYC teaser item RM gave out at Hershey (what a surprise when the news broke), and I look forward to seeing her on the nightly news or other broadcasts.
Did the newsreel footage you found come from the Paley Center? (I keep wanting to call it the Museum of Broadcasting).
Just curious,
Tom Gibson
Morgan,
Many thanks for your kind remarks and mentioning those of us who emailed and spoke with you about the Duchess and the many details that went into your magnificent restoration project. I certainly enjoyed the friendship we developed and wished we would have had the time to meet face to face during the work.
I must confess, I was surprised to see The Duchess up for sale so soon. I had not only hoped to see the finished product in person, but also that we would have the chance to show your car and Mr. Sloan's car together, given the styling similarities. Alas, as you know, I have been two years building a garage for Mr. Sloan’s car and you certainly moved your restoration project along much more quickly than I.
Congratulations on a fantastic car and we'll all be rooting for you in November.
Best Wishes
Whit Otis
I've kind of sat on this info as I had prior news of it over a month ago. But since the new S/S will be out soon, I thought I could spill the beans. Every CLC member will have a memento of this car in that RM purchased the back page of the S/S for Nov/Dec to publicize this auction. it will also complement my article about two full custom 60Ss inside. Enjoy!
Morgan:
The Duchess looks terrific, Glad I could help a little and thanks for the kind remarks. I knew you wouldn't forget the chrome rims! Good Luck in yoyur sale.
Terry Wenger
Just listened to the auction of The Duchess online. The top bid was $415,000. The car did not sell (a reserve price was added prior to the auction). Morgan, I'm sorry it did not work out for you.
Jeff
This wasn't the only car to not make reserve. As for "The Duchess", no car was better represented at Sotheby's. Morgan had a video montage of original Newsreels, photos, and the restored car in action. Overall, there were some rather shocking low-ball prices through the entire auction.
Photos DO NOT do this car justice. It simply INCREDIBLE.
The door and window handles are Lucite over chrome.
Thanks Walter--while the auction fell flat (60 percent of the lots didn't make their low estimates), I was excited to unveil the car in her hometown. In fact, the Duchess made three major networks last Thursday (ABC, FOX, and Reuters). Those reporters had a lot of iron to choose from in that show, but wanted to be standing in front of a Cadillac! I was proud so many of the guests got to see what makes 41 Cadillacs so truly remarkable.
Standard of the world!
Despite the outcome, it was still one for the record books.
I was fortunate enough to be there early Thursday morning pre-auction when professional photographers were doing interior shots with the doors open, so I got as many photos as I could (no, I didn't open them--as much as I wanted to!)
Simply fantastic! I hope to be able to see The Duchess in person someday.
Morgan, I'm glad that you were able to save and faithfully restore such a noteworthy piece of Cadillac history. Even beyond that, it is a beautiful work of art in its own right. Well done sir.