Cadillac & LaSalle Club Discussion Forum

Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bill Caddyshack on January 07, 2014, 10:58:32 AM

Title: Wheel balance weights for cars with full wheel covers?
Post by: Bill Caddyshack on January 07, 2014, 10:58:32 AM
I have 1958 and 1959 with full wheel covers. Conventional weights mounted on the outer side of the rims interfere with the correct seating of the wheel covers. This can cause the wheel cover to come loose and fall off.

I have had shops put the weights on the inside of the wheels and have heard about people using some kind of stick on weights that are for mag wheels, though I have never seen this done.

Also have heard there are offset wheel weights that will clear the wheel covers.

Since this is a common issue with our cars, I want to know what other solutions work?
Title: Re: Wheel balance weights for cars with full wheel covers?
Post by: Jon S on January 07, 2014, 11:05:15 AM
In the 1950's off-set weights were used to minimize hubcap interference.  They are hard to find today, but still around.

Jon
Title: Re: Wheel balance weights for cars with full wheel covers?
Post by: Steve Passmore on January 07, 2014, 12:52:51 PM
Modern computer balance machines can now balance with all the weights on the inside.
Title: Re: Wheel balance weights for cars with full wheel covers?
Post by: 60eldo on January 07, 2014, 09:25:19 PM
   I have some weights that you need PM me if you want
Title: Re: Wheel balance weights for cars with full wheel covers?
Post by: Glen on January 07, 2014, 11:48:10 PM
The proper wheel weights are CAX type weights and are available at this web site:
http://www.alltiresupply.com/p-90-050.html (http://www.alltiresupply.com/p-90-050.html)

The problem is they are sold in lots of 25.  Maybe someone can order several different sizes and make up assortment packages and sell them here.

Title: Re: Wheel balance weights for cars with full wheel covers?
Post by: Bill Caddyshack on January 08, 2014, 06:06:08 AM
Quote from: Glen on January 07, 2014, 11:48:10 PM
The proper wheel weights are CAX type weights and are available at this web site:
http://www.alltiresupply.com/p-90-050.html (http://www.alltiresupply.com/p-90-050.html)

The problem is they are sold in lots of 25.  Maybe someone can order several different sizes and make up assortment packages and sell them here.

Thanks, Glen. I like your idea about buying lots of 25 and selling assortments. This would be a great idea to do on eBay, the way Cadillac items bring such high prices. Hint, hint.
Title: Re: Wheel balance weights for cars with full wheel covers?
Post by: TJ Hopland on January 08, 2014, 09:05:19 AM
So the late 50's was the same style of weight and cover attachment as the early 70's?
Title: Re: Wheel balance weights for cars with full wheel covers?
Post by: blue68deville on January 15, 2014, 12:48:15 AM
Easiest and cheapest solution is the stick-on weights, that's what I use. As long as the machine is set up correctly it will balance great. The weight ends up very close to the same position as the CAX type.

With the hassle and expense of supplying your own weights, it's just not worth it.

You could just do weight on the inside, but why? It's not as precise.
Title: Re: Wheel balance weights for cars with full wheel covers?
Post by: Bill Caddyshack on January 15, 2014, 05:37:40 AM
Does it work ok to just put the weights on the inside of the rims?
Title: Re: Wheel balance weights for cars with full wheel covers?
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on January 15, 2014, 06:59:15 AM
As most modern Wheel Balancing machines have the capability of selecting where you can put the weights when setting up the balancing operation, yes, you can.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: Wheel balance weights for cars with full wheel covers?
Post by: Bill Caddyshack on January 15, 2014, 08:40:03 AM
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on January 15, 2014, 06:59:15 AM
As most modern Wheel Balancing machines have the capability of selecting where you can put the weights when setting up the balancing operation, yes, you can.

Bruce. >:D

Problem solved. Thanks Bruce. I thought this should work, your expertise clinches it.
Title: Re: Wheel balance weights for cars with full wheel covers?
Post by: TJ Hopland on January 15, 2014, 11:28:12 AM
I would assume to balance a tire and wheel using the least amount of weight possible would be ideal.   I also assume this would mean that you would need weights on the inside and outside?    If you wanted inside only you would need larger weights?

Its been a long time but I remember when I first got my 73 Eldo I did not have hubcaps (or a lot of other trim) so I did not do anything special with the weights.  I had vibration but it was not terrible.  When I got some work on the car and wanted to put covers on I discovered the issue about needing the CAX weights which were harder to find even 10+ years ago when I had the issue.   THe shop just said no problem we can just re do it and only put them on the inside.   I remember thinking the weights were much larger than what had been on there before but there was also more miles on the tires since they were first done so I suppose that could be some of the reason.   Vibration was much worse when the moved them to the inside.  I even tried another shop on the inside and it didn't help.   When I finally found a shop that had CAX weights it got much better.  Don't know if it was the weights or shop that did the trick.  Finally solved the problem by ditching the big name tires and putting on a store brand.  Even found some CAX weights to go with the new tires so thats how I'm running now vibration free.    Your results and mileage may vary but at least with the FWD Eldos it seems more often than not people have got the best results using the CAX weights.   I suspect the more typical RWD wheels are less sensitive to balance issues because of the more typical offset.    I can see inside vs outside being different with different offsets.   On the FWD Eldo's going to the inside puts you a long ways from the mounting flange.   I suppose its a leverage sort of thing?
Title: Re: Wheel balance weights for cars with full wheel covers?
Post by: blue68deville on January 15, 2014, 12:52:05 PM
Using inner and outer weights is a superior balance vs using a single.
It's a matter of a static balance (single weight) vs a dynamic (inner/outer) balance. On something with a 75 series tire you may not notice the difference, but I do.
I'm a senior master tech with Mercedes and I won't do a static balance on anything, mine or a customers car. Nothing more irritating than that slight shimmy in the wheel from a less than ideal balance.
If your tire shop doesn't know how to use a tape (sticky) weight on an old style steel wheel, find someone that does. It's worth it.
TJ, The distance of the weight from the centerline of the wheel is a leverage thing, multiplied by the fact the tire/wheel is rotating at speed.
I'll take a pic of the location when I get home later, helps to see it.
Title: Re: Wheel balance weights for cars with full wheel covers?
Post by: Dan LeBlanc on January 15, 2014, 01:11:10 PM
On my 61 Fleetwood Sixty Special, I'm running bias plys with the original wheel disks and weights on the inside only.  Mind you, the car weighs over 5000lbs with passengers, but still, there are some pretty heavy weights on the inside of that wheel and there is zero vibration.  Even on the one instance when I had it up to 85mph.
Title: Re: Wheel balance weights for cars with full wheel covers?
Post by: blue68deville on January 15, 2014, 01:55:35 PM
I'm not saying it won't work, you're just more prone to having a vibration. The other problem is that a static balance will require more weight inherently. Not a big deal when you're adding 30grams, but sometimes you get a wheel/tire that needs a lot. Then the weights get stacked up since they are only available up to a certain weight. When you use both sides of the wheel, the weight required is a lot less.
I see that mainly on steel wheels and the low quality 20" and larger wheels.
Title: Re: Wheel balance weights for cars with full wheel covers?
Post by: Mike Josephic CLC #3877 on January 15, 2014, 06:34:14 PM
One thing I learned working in a tire shop in the 60's was the difference between dynamic and static
balancing.  Using weights on both sides of the wheel will always give you a better job (less
vibration).  This was back in the dark ages before computer balancing machines.  However, the fact
still holds true.

This is especially important on the FWD Eldorado's.  I have a '73 Eldorado I've had since new and I
found it to be very sensitive to (1) type / brand of tire and (2) balancing.  Mine was ordered with the
optional radials. The best shops always used CAX weights since those cars had the issue with the
full wheel cover and needed the clearance.

Mike
Title: Re: Wheel balance weights for cars with full wheel covers?
Post by: blue68deville on January 15, 2014, 07:40:14 PM
Here's a couple pics;

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/clay68c10/Caddy%20technical/ww_zps1b6d2d1c.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/clay68c10/media/Caddy%20technical/ww_zps1b6d2d1c.jpg.html)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/clay68c10/Caddy%20technical/ww2_zpsb9e39b84.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/clay68c10/media/Caddy%20technical/ww2_zpsb9e39b84.jpg.html)


The best thing is that you don't have to bring in weights, worry about the tire guy losing the extras, messing one up hammering it on, etc.
And any tire shop out there has these or something very similar.