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Cadillac & LaSalle Club Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mike Patla #23389 on May 30, 2014, 06:51:16 PM

Title: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Mike Patla #23389 on May 30, 2014, 06:51:16 PM
Hello, can anyone give me any info on a 1963 Cadillac Vista station wagon ?  Thanks ,    MPATLA #23389
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: russ austin on May 31, 2014, 11:40:03 AM
I don't have any info, but would love to start with yours.  Do you own it?
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on May 31, 2014, 04:04:26 PM
Had never heard of the model before now. A quick search revealed one.

Apparently the roof came from the 1963 Olds Vista wagon.

I would also be interested in learning more of this interesting conversion of a 1963 Sedan deVille.
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: jdemerson on June 01, 2014, 07:44:44 AM
This is a new one for me, too! It's rather attractive.

http://www.cadillacstationwagon.com/1963/1/cwagback.jpg

I am betting it is a single conversion by a private owner, and thus there is only one. Maybe Yann Saunders knows something more.

John Emerson CLC #26790
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: gary griffin on June 01, 2014, 10:58:40 AM
I need one of these and a Cadillac Mirage pick up truck, and oh I need a bigger garage also!
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on June 01, 2014, 11:40:38 AM
I had also been leaning toward the conversion having been done at an independent shop - until I saw the roof - which appears to correlate with an Olds wagon of the same model year. Anything is possible.

To the OP - what first alerted you to this model? Ie: Do you own one; know of one for sale; know somebody who owned one, etc..? 
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Mike Patla #23389 on June 01, 2014, 07:46:33 PM
Hello,     this car does exist and I am trying to buy it.     Thanks for the responses.    member #23389
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Alex D. on June 04, 2014, 09:48:58 AM
From the picture, it does not appear to have a drop down tailgate. Kind of defeats the purpose, but an interesting look.
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Guidematic on June 04, 2014, 11:03:42 AM

That is the roofline used on the 1964-67  Olds Vista Cruiser and Buick Sportwagon. So the conversion took place at least a year after the car was built. The basic roofline was carried over after the 1968 redesign of the GM A-body and lasted through 1972.

Mike
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: veesixteen on June 09, 2014, 06:21:50 AM
I don't know the car but there are a couple of photos of it (and others) in the Cadillac Database, "Dream Cars" section for 1963-64. I love wagons like this, built on Cadillac chassis. I wish GM's Cadillac Division had "done" some of these for the enjoyment of the true Cadillac collector.
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: russ austin on June 09, 2014, 08:12:09 AM
I wonder what the inside looks like. the back axle hump seems like a challenge to overcome.
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: russ austin on June 16, 2014, 10:42:28 PM
Followed the link, but how do you bid?   :-\
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: 62 driver on June 16, 2014, 11:03:49 PM
Call them Russ. You will owe me a ride in it.
275 Connecticut 32, North Franklin
(860) 642-4200
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: C.R. Patton II on June 17, 2014, 09:50:23 AM



Hello Russ

I hope you acquire this vehicle at auction.
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on June 17, 2014, 12:30:08 PM
Russ,

If you cannot attend the sale in person, I strongly advise having the car inspected by someone familiar with Cadillacs of this vintage. 

Photos are notoriously unreliable for assessing condition!

Good luck & please follow up with details of the sale of this car.

*If the car were a '62, I'd be hightailing it to CT, pronto.  ;D
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: 66 Eldo on June 19, 2014, 07:32:32 PM
Quote from: veesixteen  I wish GM's Cadillac Division had "done" some of these for the enjoyment of the true Cadillac collector.
/quote][/b][/i]

I thought Cadillac wagons of the 60s and 70s could be ordered through the dealer and were factory built? Or was the coachwork subbed out?

Our neighbor had a 69 and I remember seeing a few around the DC area in the 70s and 80s.
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on June 21, 2014, 09:08:45 AM
Looks beautiful.

Will be interesting to see what it does.
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: INTMD8 on June 21, 2014, 10:15:08 AM
I like it!  Does the rear window open somehow?
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Gene Beaird on June 21, 2014, 11:09:00 AM
Beautiful. That would make a nice 'pup-hauler' for our dogs.  ;D

Is that a 50's Pontiac hearse/ambulance parked beside it?

Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: russ austin on June 21, 2014, 06:25:51 PM
So who did it go to?   I didn't bid.
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on June 23, 2014, 10:56:15 AM
Survey says?

(David?)
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Davidinhartford on August 19, 2014, 06:37:04 AM
They finally posted the auction results.     The 63 wagon sold for  $24,500.00
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: russ austin on August 19, 2014, 01:07:46 PM
Yea, too rich for my blood.
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: jwwseville60 on October 12, 2021, 04:00:17 PM
I own this wagon.
See my page.
JW

Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on October 12, 2021, 07:24:27 PM
John,

Good for you. Glad it found a worthy home in a Cadillac family.

What page are you refering to? Link please
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on October 12, 2021, 07:41:46 PM
What engine is in the car?   The oil filter seems to be sitting up too high for any Cadillac engine I have seen.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on October 12, 2021, 07:57:27 PM
Bruce,

Looks kinda like a 390/429 with custom set up for a Sanden compressor
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: The Tassie Devil(le) on October 12, 2021, 08:22:12 PM
Thanks Ralph.

Bruce. >:D
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: D.Smith on October 13, 2021, 06:47:28 AM
It was at the 2017 Cadillac LaSalle Grand National.

Looked great then.  Why did it need restoration?
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: cadillac ken on October 13, 2021, 08:32:51 AM
WOW.  $24,500 doesn't seem too bad to me.  Quite a unique car.  I didn't get to see the ad for it but if it's not totally shot and needing virtually everything redone, not a bad buy to me.

Congrats to the new owner.  ;)
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on October 13, 2021, 09:01:59 AM
Quote from: D.Smith on October 13, 2021, 06:47:28 AM
  Why did it need restoration?

Exactly what I was wondering... ???
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: D.Smith on October 14, 2021, 10:06:17 AM
Quote from: jwwseville60 on October 12, 2021, 04:00:17 PM
I own this wagon.
See my page.
JW

What page?   Have a link?
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Cadillac Jack 82 on October 14, 2021, 12:49:50 PM

Is that the same from the 2017 GN?!?!  I remember it being a diplomats car or something along those lines.  Really beautiful then.  While I appreciate the color that's used now...why the change?  Why ruin original?
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on October 14, 2021, 01:57:32 PM
IIRC- I think the car was said to have some connection to the Rockefeller family.
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: tmdeturck on October 14, 2021, 08:24:01 PM
There's more of the story over here:

[url]https://6364cadillac.ning.com/forum/topics/63-deville-vista-wagon-story[\url]
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Roger Zimmermann on October 16, 2021, 03:25:22 AM
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on October 12, 2021, 07:41:46 PM
What engine is in the car?   The oil filter seems to be sitting up too high for any Cadillac engine I have seen.


I also see a modulator on the transmission. Therefore, not a 4-speed Hydramatic!
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: dadscad on October 16, 2021, 12:44:43 PM
Quote from: The Tassie Devil(le) on October 12, 2021, 07:41:46 PM
What engine is in the car?   The oil filter seems to be sitting up too high for any Cadillac engine I have seen.

Bruce. >:D

It has the same front cover/oil filter location as my 63 390. I would guess either the 63 390 or 64 429 with the turbo 400 transmission, as Roger picked up on what looks like a modulator on the transmission.
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: D.Smith on October 18, 2021, 09:00:01 AM
Quote from: jwwseville60 on October 12, 2021, 04:00:17 PM
I own this wagon.
JW

Congratulations John!      Do you have a photo of the Body Tag on the firewall you can post for us?   We can decode the information on it. 
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: jwwseville60 on October 27, 2021, 05:21:23 PM
Link
[url]https://6364cadillac.ning.com/forum/topics/63-deville-vista-wagon-story[\url]

I hate Burgundy and black, so I decided it needed work. Ooops!

The top was rusty as hell under the vinyl. Go figure. We had to get a new top from AZ, an Olds Vista from 1964. Solid.
Lots of bodywork needed and new floors. There was tons of bondo. Chunks as big as Bigfoot's fist. More metalwork, then even more.

Why it never had a rear loading door no one knows. It may be for strength as the Olds top is very heavy.

Then I decided to go with a 1965 429 and Turbo 400. Blueprinted, 3-angle valve job. Heavy car, needs OOMPH. Dual exhausts...the guy didn't want to do it but eventually caved in. Two electric fuel pumps for reliability and high rpm smoothness. It will work with only one. Return fuel lines.
Im going for cool running & idling in summer. NO excuses!

It will have 2 x AC systems, one in the back. 7-vane compressor,
and a fuel chiller that runs off the AC. (Mercedes part).
I want to hang fresh meat in there! We are going for a 73 deg cabin on a 96 degree humid VA day.

It is Ferrari California Blue with a cream white vinyl top.
Mylar insulation and Dynamat. Dark blue and ivory white leather. Light blue carpet.

The story I got at the 2017 Nats in VA......was that Winthrop Rockefeller had two made for airport VIP guest cars in Arkansas. I have no paperwork to prove it, but it must have cost a fortune because its still costing ME one. The guy who told me said he worked for WR. Mine was dark blue, the other was black.


It will have 15 in billet sabres wheels. WWT.
I made a photoshop rendering of what it will look like in May 2022. I hope...
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: jwwseville60 on October 27, 2021, 06:07:39 PM
The data tag says it was a 1963 deville 4-door originally.
They should have used a Brougham 60S!

Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Ralph Messina CLC 4937 on October 27, 2021, 07:36:22 PM
Beautiful work. It did find a great home.
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: jwwseville60 on October 27, 2021, 07:52:46 PM
Thanks!
Ill try to keep her in good shape.
I post a video when she's done....at 100mph.
BTW...the middle picture is my car in the 1970s. It was dark blue, then Firemist red, then Burgundy in 1986.

Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: D.Smith on October 28, 2021, 06:50:14 AM
Quote from: jwwseville60 on October 27, 2021, 06:07:39 PM
The data tag says it was a 1963 deville 4-door originally.
They should have used a Brougham 60S!

I asked because I was curious to see the color & trim numbers.
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on October 28, 2021, 08:13:49 AM
Quote from: jwwseville60 on October 27, 2021, 06:07:39 PM
The data tag says it was a 1963 deville 4-door originally.
They should have used a Brougham 60S!

One guess is the the sleek appearance would be compromised due to the roofline & rear vent windows of the 60 Special.   
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: jwwseville60 on October 28, 2021, 08:37:42 AM
Im away from the car but Ill get a shot of the tag soon.
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: jwwseville60 on December 08, 2021, 04:02:29 PM
Resto coming along well.

Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Cadillac Jack 82 on December 08, 2021, 04:52:40 PM

Looks fantastic!
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: jwwseville60 on December 08, 2021, 06:37:44 PM
Thanks!
Even with the parts slow down, we are proceeding well.
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: D.Smith on March 16, 2022, 08:00:03 AM
Any updates?
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: jwwseville60 on March 22, 2022, 12:09:31 PM
Im visiting the car today or tomorrow.
Will advise.
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: jwwseville60 on March 23, 2022, 02:11:46 PM
Progress has been slow. Many little parts have yet to come back from repair shops, etc.
We have cut the hole for the rear AC system. Components by Dannhard Corp. (Ambulances and military vehicles). The best quality.

I have four 1963 chrome dash air vents for the rear output shelf which will be carpeted. Im trying to keep most things looking like its the original 1964 build.
Modern Busman fuse panel up front.
2 x Facet electrical fuel pumps. These are for light aircraft engines. Redundancy. Reliability.
All wiring is new and heavy-duty.

Im adding a secondary small 12v battery in the trunk area for extra power. (175 amp alternator). This will be for the AC fans in the rear.

Funny ol' world, eh? No one will sell us a non-kit Carpet roll that is GM factory-style. (We checked with everyone) Ive chosen dark blue German square weave carpet instead. A cool 1960s Porsche look. The entire rear of this car is custom, so there are no molded sets.
Rear bumper is on.
Roof glass is next.

Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: D.Smith on March 23, 2022, 07:00:03 PM
Looks like it is coming along nicely
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Scott Nellis on March 23, 2022, 10:56:37 PM
  Wow. That is one beautiful piece of machinery. You are definitely going above and beyond the call of duty on this Cadillac leaving no stone unturned. That wagon is lucky to have you as its caretaker. Many people wouldn't take the time to sort out all the little tedious details. Hats off. Really looking forward to seeing the finished product.
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: jwwseville60 on March 24, 2022, 10:53:53 AM
Thanks everyone!

When I first bought the car in Cape Cod with a briefcase of cash money, I drove it all summer. Steered, braked and handled a bit dangerously! But Im an old pro race driver so I took it as a challenge. A week of wrenching and service made it OK for temporary use. If I had kept it the way I bought it and had an accident, it would have crumpled up like a rusty accordion...and probably with my grandkids in it.

The previous owners never kept it up....sad for a very special custom build.
They barely changed the oil or fluids. Never fixed anything either. Not correctly.
When I first bought it:

It leaked everywhere.
Bad driveshaft and U joints.
Leaky gunky radiator.
Needed full suspension and brake rebuild.
Cracking paint all over due to large amounts of crappy bondo used in the 70s. We think it had a couple of fender-benders, but no frame damage.
Floors were rusted out.
Door bottoms shot.
Windshield was cracked.
Bad paint job. Gouges and dents. Rust bubbles.
One .45 caliber bullet hole in right rear quarter covered up by bondo.
Top was rusted out all over.
Motor and tranny were very tired. It had a worn and incorrect timing chain. #8 cylinder had very low compression. Bad rings.
No heat or air. No radio, no wipers, no nuthin'.
Electricals all bad from mice. Splices by the ton. Few lights worked.
Carpet and leather were very tired.
Stank like wet dogs rolling in deer shit.
We stripped it down and found the entire rear panel was a mess of hammer marks and gobs of bondo. It had been rear-ended and "fixed" at one time on the VERY cheap.
Hells-bells, even the fins were out of whack!

I love 63 Caddies the best. To me they are the pinnacle of mid century balanced design. Just the perfect amount of fin. This one plucked at my heart. Tasteful. Radical. Jet age fantastical.
It needed everything. So its my once in a lifetime full custom Resto, full boogie deal. No compromises. No wheezy AC.
If any 63 deserved a full Resto it was this one. I wanted a torquey 429 and switch pitch T400 for better performance. Sue me. Best GM tranny of the classic era. LSD too.

Though custom, I want it to look like it was built for Harley Earl by Hess & Eisenhardt in 1964. Hopefully it will turn out that way.
Did I mention all the bad bondo?

Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 24, 2022, 11:01:56 AM
Almost sounds like a completely different car compared to when I saw it at the 2017 GN.
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: jwwseville60 on March 24, 2022, 11:22:29 AM
At the 2017 Nats it looked OK, drove OK, but it was a rolling house of cards.
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: jwwseville60 on March 30, 2022, 09:37:20 AM
Data tag, etc.

Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 30, 2022, 09:48:29 AM
Interesting. It started life not as a Sedan deVille but as a Park Avenue!
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Jason Edge on March 30, 2022, 08:07:51 PM
Quote from: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 30, 2022, 09:48:29 AM
Interesting. It started life not as a Sedan deVille but as a Park Avenue!
Well,  not trying to be a stickler but technically it was a Sedan de Ville... a Park Avenue Sedan de Ville. It shared the same interior and styling of the other two sedan deVilles (6329 & 6339), and overall basically the same as the 6339 4 window SDV except being 8 inches shorter at the rear...hence, short deck.  Still, the point is well taken that you would have thought it would have been a regular 223" length Sedan de Ville ... not the 215" shorty!  Since the rear section is basically replaced anyway I guess the point is mute.
(https://forums.cadillaclasalle.club/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstorage.ning.com%2Ftopology%2Frest%2F1.0%2Ffile%2Fget%2F2175931249%3Fprofile%3DRESIZE_1024x1024&hash=ad42e1bac94e2baa70a0fcdda036ec6a9bc65812)
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: jwwseville60 on March 30, 2022, 09:25:16 PM
Since the Deville Park Ave is so rare, maybe Ill put it back to original.
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Eric DeVirgilis CLC# 8621 on March 31, 2022, 07:40:18 AM
The bigger question is whether the short deck was specified for the conversion. It's difficult to imagine a short deck model would have been selected at random...
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: russ austin on March 31, 2022, 10:25:46 AM
Since the conversion was at the time of the cars birth, it's a forgivable and cool conversion. It probably fits the length of the new roof and was chosen just for that.  Now to part out a 63 Park Avenue today would be foolish.
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: jwwseville60 on March 31, 2022, 07:27:12 PM
The elderly man I met in 2017 at the VA Caddy Nats told me there were two 1963 Caddies that were converted in NJ. Both were brand new.
He worked for Winthorpe Rockefeller and drove both cars he said.
I have this guy's name written down somewhere.
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Jason Edge on March 31, 2022, 07:30:27 PM
John, I would really love to do a full cover feature of this car in our 1963/64 Cadillac Chapter newsletter. In fact we could do a 3 Part Segment: 1) The way you received it and include some history of the car 2) In Progress Upgrades/Restoration (current status) and 3) The Finished Product. 

For you or any of our Chapter members all I need to do a full cover feature is 8 to 12 good pictures, 500 words or more of text covering any angle of the car (i.e. history, restoration, car event, etc).  You can of course include much more as we have run some really nice in-depth feature stories over the years.  At a minimum we have got to do a cover feature once it is complete!  I love the color and love what you are doing with it. You started with an interesting Caddy Wagon but this is really going to be nice.

I have a feature Caddy for our next newsletter due out around May 1, but any month after that is open right now.
If and when you want to do a feature, shoot me some pics and write-up to jasonedge@nc.rr.com   
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: jwwseville60 on April 02, 2022, 02:07:58 PM
63 Park Ave in blue.

Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: jwwseville60 on November 27, 2022, 07:05:18 PM
First test drive at White Post Restorations.
Still needs a few things done.
Dusty and dirty.

IMG_0894.jpegIMG_0898.jpeg 
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: Cadillac Jack 82 on November 28, 2022, 11:23:58 AM
Wow!  I love it even more than I did before the resto!
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: jwwseville60 on November 28, 2022, 11:44:07 AM
By the way, FYI.
This is the only other 1963 station wagon I can find that exists today. It sold at auction 3 years ago and has a Chevy roof.

63 caddy waggy green2.jpeg
Title: Re: 1963 station wagon
Post by: jwwseville60 on August 22, 2023, 12:53:59 PM
Almost done.
We had to locate a new 429 block and do another rebuild. (.30 over).
Ported heads with 3 angle job are fine. We swapped them on.
It's running well.
The outsourced engine shop ruined the last block when they bored it, thus it burned serious oil.
The shop is now kaput.